Partner left after 9 years - 4 months on

Hello everyone... another one down! Heres the last one.friends now?

I just had a surprise phone call from him (third this year) at 9.30 am..I was amazed...but soon realised it was for a financial reason. He sounded very stressed out and tired, I said are you ok and he said "Ohh,yeah..." and didnt sound ok. He said he'd had a letter about our mortgage and that he was sorry to call me implying he wanted me to deal with it. He kept apologising, saying its hard for me as I am at work, but I wouldnt have minded anyway, as I am at home and it IS a joint mortgage...Anyway he said, I just want to get this sorted out, its all a bit worrying... the letter said we were in arrears, but it was only a small amount apparently. He still hasnt organised the remortgage, like he said he would, so he may have been apologising alot as he realises he has been a bit crap.

Anyway, that was it, a short call about the mortgage, he sounded hacked off, busy, tired, not chatty or pleased to speak to me, and he said "I'll call you about Wednesday" and then went. So, I think that my sitch is not going to take the positive upturn I was hoping for..he just doesnt seem to be remotely interested in reconnecting with me. I know we had a nice day on Sunday, but he still very much had that air of separateness, he seemed confident and had plans for himself for evenings and sport and a holiday in July and I just didnt get the impression at all that he has any doubts. Sure he was nice to me, he bought me the bike rack over, he paid me compliments, he gave me a long hug. But he still didnt email yesterday, it was a short phonecall just then, he wont give me his address.

I feel like I am reaching the end of my rope. I know you all said to just be patient, and I am capable of that, but I havent had a single sign of hope, or word from any friends of his that he regrets it. The fact that he isnt doing so well on his own is only I thikn a reflection on the fact he's NEVER been any good on his own and wilts when he is single and isnt necessarily to do with me. He told me quite categorically, IDLYA. He was certain he said. 100 % sure. And so another thread starts with me feeling..this is it. It IS OVER. And I am getting sick of it hurting so much, the daily agonising, waiting. Its killing me !

Ali
___________________
Me: 36
H: 34
LT: 9 years
ILYBINILWY: 2 Nov 07
Own apartment: 26 Jan 08
4 months on
friends?
regrets?[url]
[url=http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1326714&page=0&fpart=1]3 months on
sitch 2
sitch 1

Blimey, so many threads. So much thought and time put into this. I wonder how much time he has spent thinking about me. Feeling nervous about going home in the car with him tommorow now. Its nearly 4 hour journey. I hope I'm not mega quiet and shy, because thats how I feel. I have little real confidence around him anymore, as he left me and with such finality. I am debating at the moment emailing him about the mortgage (all sorted now) and also to say, are you ok, you sounded tired.

Ali

Just wanted to put these here for myself, seeing as I messed that up then! (and to think I was a web developer for years!!)

4 months on
friends?
regrets?
3 months on
sitch 2
sitch 1

Ali,

AS I have said right from the start, you have to be patient. As for the email, stick to business. He told you how he was feeling Sunday. Nothing has changed since then. Sometimes you have to let things go.

PATIENCE, Ali.

IMP

IMP, thankyou, you are so right!
Theres a new moon this week and for Pisceans, it is all about letting go. Allowing things to happen as they should and not trying to control things or other people, because you are learning that you cant control things and you have to just let it be. Its about letting the universe or god or goddess or whatever hear your wish but then let it go and allow it to come back to you if its meant to.

He emailed me, apologising for bothering me with mortgage stuff! I emailed back to tell him it was sorted but made sure to acknowledge and validate his stress over it and said I'm sorry you got the letter and it worried you, but I hope you feel reassured now. I did add, I hope you're ok today and not too tired (as he sounded knackered and all he ever tells me is how tird he is). I didnt get a reply as yet, but I will. So...got to let go.

Good email Ali. I would definately have sent the email letting him know it was all taken care of since he was stressed about it. I think your sitch is still going well. Don't give up hope!

Ali, his behavior is not going to be consistent for a while. Don't let it throw you. Focus on the positive developments intsead of every single time he fails to meet your expectations, which I think are actually kind of high. Friends don't recieve kisses from friends on the neck, you know what I'm sayin? When he acts weird, don't take it personally... maybe he needed to get off the phone b/c he felt ashamed of himself for not being able the figure out the mortgage by himself or for not delivering on his promise to you to take care of it. But even though he is not being consistent, you can choose to be consistent with your DB'ing and how you repsond to him. And also, you can choose to find happiness and fulfillment in things that are not as mercurial and wild as his interactions with you.

(((ALI)))
T

Ali:

T is right. He can't be consistent...he's not there yet. My H waffles back and forth all the time. It used to be every other day...now there are stretches of normalcy for up to a week at a time. The key to knowing that you are moving forward is to look for the baby steps, not the big picture. You may think you aren't making any progress...but you are, little by little. Last week, I quit calling and emailing H at work and guess what....he started calling me more and sending me emails...weird huh...

Take things one day at a time. Be patient. And quit having ANY expectations...because then you won't be disappointed when things don't happen the way you think they should.

Good luck on the car trip...you'll be in my thoughts!

BA (((((((Ali)))))))

(((ALI))

Things are not going to change overnight. You didn't get here overnight. You are going through what I went through the other day. Just when your communication is becoming more often and you spent time together, that little beast in you wakes up and is hungry for more. And there are no chains or cages to trap it in. So, be aware, that little beast can scare the h$$l out of him and you'll be ruining everything you managed the last weeks.
Try to stabilise your mood, it's important, you'll avoid the emotional stress that is killing you (who am I to preach?) and you will be more effective. Your BF sounds so lost and scared and depressed. He needs time.
L & XXXXXXXXX
Kalni

Thankyou, thankyou, as usual! I cant deal with my frustrations. I do have higher expectations, as the contact increases, you are right T and Kalni, and then its agonising all over again when he withdraws. And that is a good point about the beast wanting more! I miss him so desperately, I just want him to move back in so life can go back to normal! I miss my old life, I miss how happy I felt, how secure, how much fun I had in his company, how much I enjoyed loving him. I miss my cat that died the week before he ended it (thats the only thing I'm really mad at him about, the timing).

I feel like I havent been doing very well at GALing, but then he isnt either! We had some emails back and forth today, chatty, jokey, nothing personal as usual. I lent him a sequel to a film and he watched it last night, at the same time as I was watching the original, so we chatted about that. Says it all about us, we always got along so well and have the same likes and dislikes, like the same food, the exact same music, the same films, where to holiday, where to eat out, what kind of people we like. And not in a boring way, there were some minor differences, but just in a harmonious way. And these things make me miss him so much. I do appreciate he had to leave me to grow and learn about himself and make himself happy, I just wish he would give me (or us) another chance. Doesnt seem to be materialising though.

I am still expecting something to change this week, its making me really on edge and nervous. The changes do seem to be coming financially though...we discussed the remortgage today and he said he would phone up tommorow to book it, so still is happy to keep our house and not sell it, which I am gso rateful for (I have no idea why not though. It cant be that he cant be bothered to sell, as he is planning to sell his Dads house anyway). Then I did the viewing on the flat and they loved it and may put in an offer tommorow!!

He said he would call me about Wednesday..which is tommorow. So maybe he will call tonight!? He hasnt so far...

(((((Ali)))))
He isn't going to come back by travelling a straight line! It's a crooked, bumpy path, and it will take time.

Patience! I know you love it when I say that.....

I know I know...but thats under the assumption that he WANTS to come back to me. And thats my point, I just dont see any sign of it. He seems resolutely sticking to his path. He is a very fixed person, when he makes up his mind, thats it. Sorry Jeff, I know I must sound like a stuck record, but I just cant stand it. I am a patient person, honestly I am, its just that I dont see any hope. I know he has been keeping in contact alot, but then we were friends for 3 years before we got together and for half of that we were the best of friends, and used to meet for lunch every day. So maybe, for him, it has reverted to that and he meant what he said when he told me "I love you like a mate now"?

I wish someone would teleport me into the future for a sneaky peak. Its living with this unrelenting uncertainty that is doing my head in. My friend says, well you dont have uncertainty, you know whats going on, its over, and until he says otherwise, thats all there is to it.

Suppose she has a point !

Ignore your friends for now when they say things like that. Just smile and bite your tongue since they don't know. They've never been in your sitch. I used to always say "if H ever cheated on me, I'd be outta here". Well, look at me, I'm still here and standing since it's not always about the wrong doings.

Ali....

I was thinking about your sitch after I posted last. And I think maybe this is the confusing part. I think you are eager to go back to what you already had with BF. BUT... that's not really how it works, from what I understand. You are actually going to need to create a new relationship, starting from scratch. That will also give you both a chance to integrate all of your own personal changes into your new R. If you both went back to the old R and started living out the same patterns, that old R would probably be too small for both of you, who have grown and changed for the better. So focus on creating a new R... especially the PACING of a new R.

For example, if you had a first date with someone that went the way your day with BF went this past weekend, how would you feel? He kept extending the date over and over and you had a great time. He asked to be part of your trip home. You would probably be walking on air. And also not be expecting to see him every single day. If you were starting over with someone new, maybe you would see him once a week, or every other week, if he wasn't out of town. After a couple weeks or even months of that, maybe it would become twice or three times a week. You know what I'm saying? Can you adjust your expectations accordingly?

Just because he's not GALing is no excuse! Get out there and GAL, Ali! It will really help stabilize you.

Good news about the possible offer on the flat. And also that BF doesn't want to sell and instead wants to remortgage. I think that is a good sign.

I know I am probably being a pain in the butt!
(((ALI)))
T

P.S. One of the best things I ever read on this site was "Do NOT listen to what your friends say unless they have also saved their M (or R) from crisis."

Hey T!

Well, I do realise we would enter into a new R, you are right...its exactly what I wanted all along. I was well aware of his hidden nature, that he was a people pleaser, that he wore a mask to others (and to some extent me)..I just never realised the full extent of the mask he was wearing to me also. I encouraged him to be more assertive, think of himself, follow his dreams, take more control, be more decisive...I just didnt think he would do all those things and leave me in teh process !! So, I would be more than happy to have a new more balanced R with him, if only he would give me the chance..

Good point about the date analogy..but, I'm a bit of an all or nothing. My last BF, I met him Saturday, we had our first date Sunday at the end of which we had realised we were in love and I moved in on Monday (I kid you not!). When that ended, my current BF, who was my friend but already declared his love for me, came round that same day and we were "together" half an hour later. I dont mess around when it comes to love! I've never ever dated. I fall in love, I move in. I am older and wiser and I wouldnt behave like this again...I just want my BF back !! (oh that old chestnut).

Thinking of my R history, I'm laughing, I guess thats not the usual way its done! But bless you for taking the trouble to explain to me yet again that I need to be more PATIENT !!!!

My friend has a very bad R history. She had to get the last BF carted away by Police as she caught him looking at teenage porn (!) and the BF before that broke her nose. So, yes, I suspect her negative view of men and R may be colouring her advice to me somewhat :-) She's lovely though, and calls me 3 times a day when I am down, shes one in a million.

Geez, Ali, and I thought I was impetuous getting married in 8 months or so!

Hey Ali,

Sounds pretty clear to me that your BF is struggling with some feelings of depression and he's overwhelmed by stressors pretty easily at this time. Think about how it is actually likely to be stressful or at least anxiety provoking at some level for him to connect with you. I don't imagine it is easy--even though clearly part of him wants to connect very much. I say this because it could help cast some light on why he seems so back and forth with you. To expect him to be able to be stable, grounded, emotionally open, and consistently moving his end of the relationship forward with you each time you connect is probably too much at this point--not because this wouldn't be a wonderful thing--but because his struggles within himself make it hard. Please don't take this all on as just being about you!

You are strong, Ali--even though you maybe don't feel like it sometimes! Tell us about your plans for your birthday trip home...a nice opportunity for self care and gentle GAL? : )

Hang in there!

purr

Thanks Purr and IMP and Jeff and Kalni and Dar and T.. and well, I thikn I owe the board an apology, I havent been much use lately, I just feel a bit wound up and nervous. We've had some more short matey emails..in fact, he emailed me at 8.45 this morning! So thats a first. He called me at 9.30 yesterday and the day before that he emailed at 9.30. Nothing earth shattering, I'm not getting little signs that I wish I was that Kalni is getting (fellow Piscean!) so I continue to look at the sitch rathly bleakly.

But I think all this stuff with the tenants as well, its just making it hard for me to give much here to all of you, so I am sorry. Plus, my best friend turned up at my door unexpectedly and then was in tears about his Dad dying 7 years ago and also, his W (the one he hit) keeps calling, and she was on the phone saying she was fed up he wasnt home yet, just as he knocked on my door !! So something really wierd going on there, they are involving me in their M. I am waffling here...just saying that everything feels chaotic right now. My other best friend is in a bad way with her abusive H and rang me in whispers last night.

So...with all this going on, its hard to just be serene and GAl and act as if and be patient and all that other great stuff. My life feels like a circus ! I will try and just enjoy the journey home with my BF. He just emailed to say we are leaving soon, feel sick with nerves! I feel that this is a make or break week for us.

Ali,

Stay positive and things will turn out good. Have fun and keep us posted.

(I am not seeing my steps as positive, do you yours?)

(written on purpose like that, it's not due to language difficulties).

Kalni

Hey Kalni!! Thanks and yes! I do see the progress in your sitch as positive...I was going to post this on yours, but seeing as you asked here... you had word from your H that he is miserable without you and other positibe words he said to your frined... well he did this as Mars turned around and went into cancer (the sign of the family and of home) and whatever is initiated this week wil be the seeds that grow and may come to fruition by May 9th... I already told a friend of mine ages ago that I will either be in love again by May 9th or I will give up !!!

So my prediction for you is, keep going and building on this great start in your boirthay week (like him coming to the doctors with you).

My BF just emailed to say no, he will drive over here and pick me up and then we leave...this adds 40 minutes to his journey, but he was sure its what he wanted to do. So like your H, is that a random act of kindness or a sign of something more??? I dont know !

Feeling very nervous...normally I would shove on jeans and a top and stripey socks for a car journey..hmm..dont think thats quite going to cut it !!?? Wish me luck, my stomach is somersaulting.

It will be ok once we are on the road and listening to some music, I am sure.

I havent got anywhere to stay tonight !! (oh dear). My parents are on holiday and not back till late (dont know whenb, could be 2am) and my friend cant put me up now as she told her H they may D unless he goes to MC and he is now on the sofa..so I dont know where I will get my BF to drop me, but could be potentially embarrressing. Wish me luck,

Ali xx

Ali,
I suppose you were too excited and missed my point tottally.

(I am not seeing my steps as positive, DO YOU YOURS?)

I was not asking you to give me your Astrological help, I was telling you that we don't have the whole picture when we are IN a situation. I meant that the same way I am not happy with my progress because I don't see it as clearly as the others do, YOU DO NOT SEE THE POSITIVE IN YOURS!!!

Got it? GOOD LUCK!!!
Get back to us with good news... (or at least neutral)

K

I agree Kalni. I think it's very hard to see what's going on in your own sitch but can see more clearly in others sitches. Strange but I do believe that to be true.

(((((Ali)))))
I hope you have a good ride up!

And I hope you have a place to sleep. I'm not sure this is the best plan: "BF, I don't have anywhere to sleep, I guess I'll have to sleep with you."

Ali,

Hope your trip goes well and we're looking forward to hearing how it went when you get back. And Happy Birthday...it's sometime this week, yes?!

Purr

Ali,

My goodness you can close a thread, can't you? Well, now that I've found you again, I'll get caught up as soon as I can. I'd do it now, but I have my D w/ me and I'm just swiping a minute during a milk run.

Check back w/ you later.
RTL

I am enjoying your posts, Kalni.

Ali, have a great time. Go with the flow.

IMP

Ali,

I'm up early today so I was able to catch up on you. First of all, Kalni is ABSOLUTELY correct when she says that it is very difficult for you to realize the positives that are going on in your R. Your BF has made tremendous progress back toward you, but it is far easier for us here on the outside, w/out the emotional attachment, to see it. We understand that and that is why we keep posting to give you encouragement (or in the case of Jeff, offer to provide some punishment to keep you focused).

You said one thing I want to address:

Quote:

I do have higher expectations, as the contact increases, you are right T and Kalni, and then its agonising all over again when he withdraws.

Unfortunately, having any expectations is a killer. Having expectations means you are going to be let down b/c there is no way any of our partners can meet what we'd like to expect from them right now. So, the sad thing is you have to lower the bar way, way down. It has to be so low that they can step over it w/ little to no effort.

Once you do that (and believe me, I'm not good at taking my own advice here), then every little thing they do will seem like a gift. You'll be able to appreciate their small steps b/c you weren't expecting any steps at all.

How do you get there? I don't know exactly except to try on a daily basis to put stop signs up to your negative thoughts and keep telling yourself over and over to not expect anything from him today.

There is no magic cure or else we'd all have taken it by now. In the end, there is nothing more than that phrase we all hate to hear "you have to be patient and wait."

The waiting is the hardest part. I'm with you on this one, Ali, but you are doing very well w/ BF. Maybe you'll be able to expect nothing for your birthday and be shocked w/ whatever he is able to give.

Take care and for Heaven's sake -- KEEP GOING!
RTL

Hey everyone..thank you for your kind words. I see what you mean everyone that its so much easier to have perspective on someone elses sitch, its much harder in your own. I still find it surprising that you all do see mine as positive.I think the problem is, its me thats living it and I havent been having such a great time, the journey was agonising to be honest. He seems quite confident and self-assured and just so...separate to me. It was like he had forgotton the last 9 years, he wasnt responding to me like someone I was with all that time and even described things about himself a few times, as though I hadnt known him 12 years and dont know what he is like !?

It was strange, which I would appreciate a view on. When he arrived to collect me, he was very agitated about work. He "downloaded" about it for the first 45 mins. He was very angry about people at work and his boss, I've never seen him so aggressive and wound up about work. He has an appraisal today, which he was very stressed about. He apologised for being angry and frenetic and when I said, is that because of work?, he said, no I'm like it all the time arent I. He said he was stressed and wound up all the time.

So the other wierd thing was, he said several things about himself, sort of explaining his personality to me, as though I dont know him. It was very odd, he said about liking to read maps and follow towns on a journey..I was so surprised that I couldnt help saying, I know you are like that, you always used to do that when I was driving..and he then said yeah, we never got bored in cars when we were kids...and sort of threw it back to his childhood. He also said a couple of other negative things about himself and I couldnt help saying "but you're not like that at all??". After this, I didnt know what to say and was therefore quite quiet. I just asked him lots of neutral questions and he responded well and seemed fine with me, normal.

He was very worried when he found out I was unsure where I was staying and kept insisting I made phonecalls..as in the end he said he was going to see his best friend and "well, its just I really wanted to see him on my own"...as though I would expect to go with him! Which I wasnt. He then absolutely insisted on driving me 40 mins out of his way (and making him late) to drop me at my best friends house.

When he said goodbye, he bent and gave me a big hug, but he didnt linger as long. I kissed his neck again, but he just stepped back, so I'm not sure how he felt about it. He then got in the car looking sad, or guilty, or something, saying he would call me, or text me today (he hasnt yet).

So all in all, I didnt get the impression he has any change of heart at all, in fact, he seems further from me than ever. So I genuinely am confused and not coping well in this sitch, its very very painful. In the car, I felt very emotional, full of love for him, it was agonising not being able to touch him, and yet he SEEMED so unaffected by my prescence. He seems strong and sure of himself and I felt weak and shy and so unconfident.

So Kalni and Jeff, RTL and all of you, you really do see that I should be grateful and that there are positives. But from where I am standing, it is clearly over for him and I am just putting myself through daily agony. It hurt so much last night, I cant tell you. Its incomprehensible to me, but he just doesnt seem to love me anymore.

...just remembered some other wierd things he said. I admitted I got my college assessment day wrong, it wasnt Monday but today. He got all worried for me and said, why didnt you tell me? He almost suggested turning back around and offered to try and rearrange work so we could leave the next afternoon instead, but I kept insisting that he didnt have to that for me and I didnt want to put him out. Later in the journey he then said, oh but if its not Monday, we could stay up here (its my birthday Monday) and how he would try and rearrange work so he could drive us back Monday late instead of Sunday, which would be tricky, but he said he would try. Again I said no, you dont have to do that (this would be 180 behaviour, if we were at all "together" which we are not). Same on his concern for where I would stay and the lift to my friends, I'd arranged to get the bus, but he wouldnt hear of it, he said of course I will drive you, its not even up for discussion! So I thanked him.

What does all this sound like...random acts of kindness? Guilt? Anyone I have asked says the same thing..well, thats him, he always was a nice kind bloke. And he was to me. So its not out of character.

(((((Ali)))))
Could it possibly be that he is nice to you because he likes you?

I'm not going to say too much, because I'd just be repeating myself, and you already know what I'm going to say anyway! Look at now, and compare it to Christmastime. Do you see anything different?

Ali:

Jeff is right....what has changed since Christmas? Can you look back and see how far you really have come? Hope the trip is going well. Keep us posted!

BA

Thanks Guys!

...I just had my best friend on the phone and she is beginning to think I am nuts, that all this is just making me ill, that I am delusional. She says of course he will offer to do stuff for you, he's just being a friend to you now and its nothing more than that. Its been over for a long time for him. He first felt this way in June last year..he told you at the end of August he wanted space..he told you in September that he wasnt sure you had a future together..so for him, he may have been feeling no love for you since las summer, that is a very long time ago and is all long gone for him. She said that I am fooling myself, that why cant I respect his decision? Why do I keep thinking that he may be mistaken or have doubts? Clearly he hasnt, hes never shown a shred of doubt or regret. She said she is only saying these things to help me as she sees me in pain.
She said she did this with her exBF and hung on for over a year and it was all a waste of time and negative and did her no good at all and just wasted over a year of her life. She doesnt want me to make the same mistake and thinks...I should cut off contact with him and maybe we can be friends in a years time.

Its very difficult to listen to this and makes me feel bad about my choices. I havent had word from him or anyone that he has the slightest doubt or regret so I can see why she would say this?

Ali x
_________________________
Me: 36
H: 34
LT: 9 years
ILYBINILWY: 2 Nov 07
Own apartment: 26 Jan 08

(((((Ali)))))
Let's take a giant step back....

What do you want?
What would getting there look like?
How is that different than what exists now?

Ali,

Your BF may not be in love w/ you any more, but that isn't a bad thing. Remember, your R is not going to be the same as it was. He may have to travel down the path of friend again then back to falling in love again.

He will have the opportunity to fall in love w/ you again if you keep DBing. However, remember you have no control over what he will or won't do. Unfortunately, we can't control or have any say over what our partners will or won't do. That is the hard part.

But, we have to remember that DBing is for us, not for them. We are DBing to improve ourselves 1st and to give our loved ones the opportunity to choose to look at us and see our changes. They may or they may not. The one thing that is certain is things will never change for us if we are not DBing.

DBing is the only way we have a chance to save our Rs. Unfortunately, we may have to move on, but if that is the case, we'll at least move forward as better people.

Keep going and let your BF have the chance to continue to come back to you. I can see him making great strides. It would be nice if his steps were bigger, but he does appear to be moving toward you.

RTL

ALi, just read your last post.

My kids are all over me, but YOU wait! I'll get back here once they are asleep. I'll try first to think of what I want to tell you in greek and then I need to translate.
We need to have a serious talk, girlfriend...

Kalni

Kalni, bring your 2x4!

Ali, you might want to run. I have a feeling this is going to be a good one from Kalni!

Ali:

What does your heart tell you to do? Do you want to stand strong and see where the DB path leads you? Do you want to give up and walk away? You are obviously still in love with BF and DBing will bring about positive changes in you that he may take notice of. If he does, it could transform your relationship into something more than it is now. If he doesn't notice, you will be able to bring the stronger Ali into new relationships.

What is your goal....and is what you are doing bringing you closer to your goal?

Think about it.

Hugs!

BA

Ali,

I think if your BF really had no feelings for you aside from the "friend" feelings he would be looking to quickly separate your joint property investments.. and he is not doing this. It would be a perfect opportunity for him to be absolutely free of you and your relationship connection and HE'S NOT DOING THAT.. which to me implies he still wants to be TIED to you in some way.

I think he is just wrestling with his own demons and wants to do it in his own space and his own time..

Just my $0.02.

((Ali))

W2G

Hi everyone, I really do need some perspective from you all, its hard to understand the things about him I was describing over page...Yes I am still in love with him and I certainly want to wait. I dont think I am doing well with the Dbing (ok toward him but no so good with the GALing etc) and I feel tired and lonely and despondent and havent really got my life going since he left 4 months ago. I struggled living where we do now, and being at college with mostly 20 year olds (who are v sweet, but young). But also, I have been rather depressed and my confidence has nose dived since he left me and was so adamant about it. So, yes I want to wait..but wait for what? And I am suffering daily, I find it very agonising. I just miss him.

Thing about the house - he has always been rubbish with finances and I am not convinced that him being happy to remortgage is a sign that he secretly wants to stay tied to me, I think he is just happy to keep the house ticking over as he may know I love it and wouldnt want to sell it..and hes put me through enough? Althugh he is happy to sell his Dads...maybe he would be happy to sell our house if I asked him? (I wouldnt dare!!). You could be right thogh, its a sign of something that he is more than happy to remortgage and keep our "marital" home, but I am not sure.

Secondly, I did email him at near work end and he wrote staright back saying his appraisal was dicey, but ok, that he did see his best mate last night and got a bit drunk but it was cool and he asked me if I was now at my parents place (dont know why he asked me that).I replied saying yes I was at my parents but wanted to get out of here soon ad going for a drink and getting drunk sounded great to me right now! (as in, hinting). He didnt reply, althogh he had emailed me at 5.10 and I replied at 5.15 - he may have already left work, or he may have ignored it?

I had high hopes for today..and nothing has materialised, the sitch is not looking very optimistic at all...

I don't know about where you live Ali, but it's starting to get really nice out here now. I have also been very bad at DB'ing...like you, I'm pretty ok w/H but not with my own things to do. BUT, now that it's getting nice out, I'm hoping that helps me go and GAL....bike ride, walks, play at the park with D, etc etc. Maybe it's the weather on top of BF being gone that's brought you down?

Okay, I totally missed when your last thread locked and am finally getting caught up.

Don't listen to your friends, especially when they don't know what it takes to make a long-term relationship work!

Stay focused on the positives and just worry about making yourself happy. I'll post more later. (((Ali)))

So, going back to the friends thing briefly...one of my co-workers asked me at work last night whether I was back with my H. I said no. Her next question, are you dating? I said no. She said, why not, I would be! I said, I'm busy with school and other things. What I did not say was you are divorced and a self-titled pimp, you have a different guy every other month and have no problem calling guys for "booty calls", why on earth would I ever take relationship advice from you? However, that's certainly what was going through my head. The moral - take advice with a grain of salt and don't let others make the decision for you.

Also, I had to laugh at your dating history because that was pretty much what happened with H and I as well. We went from being friends to ML to living together in like a month. People would ask how long we'd been dating and I'd go back to our first kiss all the while thinking that we never really dated lol.

Good example Michelle! My family has started asking here and there what's going on and 'if you need a L' blah blah blah. NO ONE that I know of in my family has gone through this. My mom has told me to ignore them and do what I think is right for me and my family. It's hard for me too lately, but don't give up your hope if you're not ready to Ali!

Ali,

Had to type in word and copy and paste it here.

This is not a 2x4, if I knew you better I would hit you with a 2x2, or 4x4 or 6x6 or whatever. But I don't want to cross any lines and hurt you. STILL, you asked for our thoughts, here are mine:

I am glad you answered to Jeff you feel you still love your BF because that was my first question to you. Now that we got that straight let's think about some staff:

You decided you will fight for this R and will do whatever works. And it seems that you ended up here, as we all did, because DBing sounded that it would work for you too.We are all giving our best shots and hoping we will get what we are longing for.

I am sure you believe you are doing the best you can but baby, the way I see it you aren't. There is no GALING towards him and Galing for you. There is only one galing, for ALI. You keep coming up with excuses every time someone says you should take care of yourself more or you should enjoy your self more...
BUT NO, you choose to live your life as an incomplete person hoping to attract back to you, another incomplete person ASAP.

You are obviously a smart caring, tender, strong woman. You invested a lot during these 9 years and you had the end of the movie already in script, a nice house, kids running around etc etc. And this is not the way it went so far, someone decided not to play along, someone felt that he needed to take care of "his business". What do you do?

You give up or fight for your dream. You don't lose focus every time a GF says something to you, you don't break down every time the phone rings 2 min later than anticipated by you, you don't get discouraged every time he emails 3 less words than the previous time.

What is your goal? Focus on it. Walk with your back straight and attract your future to you, your dream to you, stop chasing it around like a puppy dog. Don't question your decision to fight every step of the way; you are going back and forth driving yourself CRAZY. Don't you see that? Your moods are like "a heartbeat line" and should be a straight line going upwards.
You are on panic mode all the time, happy or sad it is still a panic mode; you are missing positive steps and focusing on small details...This way you can't have a clear sight of your situation and that may lead you to wrong decisions.

You believe he can't see through your "happy galling Ali mask"? Sorry but you are wrong, you may say all the right things, give or take a comma, you may act the way the book says, but you smell differently. I bet you your eyes are telling him "come back to our old life, the one you think you hated, come on, hurry up, I am lost without you, why did you break my bubble, why did you have to be weak, I am here ready to start were we left off, I had dreams of us starting a family, come back, do you hear ME????????".
Can you feel the pressure on him?

4 months? So what? I am separated 4 months, my H left me with the most horrible words echoing in my ears, having to care about two small kids and their psychological state (even if I wanted to quit I would HAVE to reconsider just for them, no free will here- just "free willy the whale") and right when I thought things were looking up for us.
Future? Do you know many men that would like to raise my kids as if they were their own?
Money difficulties? You ask me...My life changed so much.

You say I sound strong, well let me break the news to you: I have to wake up every morning and pretend he is on a trip, I have to sleep every night listening to my kids prayers for their dad to come home and yes day by day I get stronger, because I can't control anybody else, just me. I am breaking down and I am ashamed of myself when I do. There is no other option. I've tried the crying and the drama queen scenario (you are too a drama queen just as Essie said, don't deny it) did it help me? No!!! I was loosing him with light speed...

I had to regroup fast because we were signing separation documents about custody and money. I was screaming at him on the phone calling him names as loud as I could and the next morning I was -almost-the Kalni you've met. I made a strategic choice. I put my feelings to sleep, made them numb as good as I could, (getting better) and said I am risking everything, time, efforts, my sanity, my heart, my everything. I'll do what seems/feels to be unnatural since what came natural to me didn't work.

I still have a long way to go before I finally give up or make it. But guess what, in the meantime I am no longer scared. I am OK with anything that comes my way. Sure I'll cry my eyes out the day we sign our D papers (if we do), sure there will be a hole in my heart forever but I am not afraid of that. Don't think that I am over him big time, BS!! I am desperately in love with him. And I will fight as a hyena to get him back but I will fight wisely. Save my energy, protect myself, enjoy the fight...

Ali STOP REACTING, start acting for you. If he is going to come back, he won't come back because you answered an email fast enough or smart enough, you are not going to lose him if you miss a phone call, if you learn again to have fun by yourself or with friends. If you plan your weekends excluding him, if you just let go for a while... You can't make him want you in any other way than attract him to you. And you won't attract him if you are not feeling good about yourself and your choices. It's simple.

Just my 2 cents (as everybody here says)

Take care and I hope you still talk to me

Kalni

Ps Sorry I drifted about my sitch, but I can only tell you what works for me.
PS Sorry it was long
PS Sorry If you feel I am not "getting you" because I do more than you can tell (us fish have strong intuition, you know)
PS You know I care for you and hate to see you loosing it
PS fantasizing about my prize in my bed...

Love what Kalni had to say! - Very in-sightful, honest and caring because she wants the best for you Ali. (Re-read Kalni's post)

You've lost that cool attitude that you had on Sunday, that BF is the one missing out on you.

P.S I dont think you are a drama queen... maybe a bit dramatic, but that's not a bad thing - I like a bit of excitement in my friends! (((ALI)))

OK - I hope that you've got that kisses on the neck aren't working - good points for trying it, but dont go there any more.

And I'm kind of thinking that it would be good for you to work out a way to get home by yourself, at the time that suits you, so that you dont have to rely on BF for a lift home. Shows that you are strong and independent, and that your not begging for more rejection. Then you can ring BF and say in a cheery voice "Oh dont worry about the lift home I've worked out that it will be better for me to do xyz (catch the bus, hitch-hike, be driven back by a sexy new man etc)". Then BF can be a bit sad and realise that he was looking forward to talking to you on the trip home and he misses you, and that will be a motivation for him to step towards you in the coming weeks.

You are fabulous Ali - wish I could be there to give you a big hug and see how hot you are looking.

Hope you have a really fun weekend! And you focus on yourself and what makes you happy! - You deserve it!

Essie,

Great idea about the ride home!!
Ali?

Kalni

PS Didn't mean to put words in your mouth... (wasn't it you asking about the drama queen thing?)(was it Lisa? can't remember, sorry)

Ps What about you Essie, can't find your thread

Ali,

I think what Kalni said was wonderful. It may be a bit of tough love, but it is love for sure. We all agree that Ali needs to do what Ali decides to do. However, you need to be steadfast in your focus and goals. Do that, and you'll be able to survive the lowest of lows.

We're all here w/ you. Lean on us, ok?

RTL

(((Ali))) You are a fabulous, determined, wonderful woman. BF is stupid to walk away and I hope he realizes it before it's too late.

Hey Kalni! Of course I am still talking to you! You are a smart woman and thankyou, so much, for taking the trouble to post me so much heartfelt honesty and I really needed this "pep" talk. I have been struggling so much this past week.

About GALing, I do genuinely find it difficult. I am not an extrovert, I am an introvert and also a bit shy and maybe, him leaving has made it hard for me to pick myself up and get out there. But I am going to try harder, I have to as my life is no life right now. I am home and seeing a few friends, but it doesnt feel like home anymore. But home down South doesnt feel like home either as it was my home with him and we had hardly just settled there when he left, so I dont feel quite right anywhere. Nothing feels right.

I love what you said about not giving up after a GF discourages you (you too Michelle !!)..I just had this GF on the phone again, getting mad at me for "wasting my time" and saying it wasnt fair on him, I should let him go and respect his decision that its over. I do think she has a rather negative and bitter attitude to men, so am trying to tune it out.

Also,yuo are right about my mood! Up and down, panicking, driving myself crazy. I almost cant take another minute of it. I do hate drama, but I agree, I can be dramatic with my emotions and its not healthy. I need to learn to cope better with the ups and downs of all this, or I need to back away and stop doing it, as at the moment I am just suffering.

I am interested when yuo say you took a strategic decision - as I did, I havent mentioned R talks since before Christmas, but unlike you I am still afraid. I'm afraid that I have lost something precious, that I drove it away, that I will never have kids...but yuo make me see that I need to be stronger, to have more courage, to stand tall and believe in myself more (whether or not he comes back). I understand, I just need to try and achieve that PMA! I havent had a very good PMA all along.

Lastly, again you mention I dont see the positive steps. I do, I just dont think they are steps toward a new R, I just thikn they are the natural result of two people who were always the best of friends and maybe it is hard for him to let go of that, as much as it is for me (not as much!), but that doesnt mean therefore that he would want to get back together with me, I dont see that leap. Its like that thing about archeologists and historians trying to prove that there was a man called Jesus who walked the earth. Maybe, but that doesnt mean therefore that he was the son of God. The two things are not connected, that is a leap of imagination. You cannot say because of X, therefore Y. Thats how I see it. I dont see positive steps back in a line toward me (wobbly or otherwise Jeff!), I just see steps leading up to a wall. The one he put up last August, its still there. It hasnt lowered by even a brick, not EMOTIONALLY.

He may be making contact,but I still get nothing from him emotionally. He treats me in a very "matey" way. Its as though he never loved me, there are no traces of it left as far as I can see. I long for a friend to tell me he is miserable because he wont see me on my birthday, but I know this wouldnt happen.

I will carry on fighting, but yuo are so right Kalni and thankyou.. I need to fight smarter. Stop obsessing over the little details and get out there and make some friends ! Thankyou once again, please repeat these lessons to me if yuo have time as I are flaying around with this stuff ((((Kalni))))

Ali xxxxx

Essie.. I did consider this. I was thikning of getting the train (�100!) and almnost wanted to tell him I am no longer here for my lift. But he is on a stag do with his best friend Saturday nigth and I am staying there with his W! We are going to get drunk ;-) so I will be there when he drops his friend back the next day and I just think it would be easier to accept the lift home. I'm not sure I could actually turn it down, sadly.

And then...I may have to think about how I want to be from next week, from my birthday onwards. Or learn to cope with it better, as every little communication kills me all over again! And makes me sad. And yes Kalni, I wear a mask and although he doesnt have our intuition (!) he may well see through it, yes.

Thanks Michelle, Dar, Essie, Kalni, RTL...I guess you are all on my side! That means a lot to me, as friends start to tell yuo to give up, you need someone to reassure you your not crazy ! But how yuo can all tell me these wonderful things about how good a person I sound, I am so touched..and I thought I sounded like an unhinged nutcase in my posts! But yes, I thought I was a very positive thing in my BF life and he was lucky to have me, as I was to have him and I think he is a fool for ditching me ! :-)

Ali,

I loved this line for one simple reason:

Quote:

you need someone to reassure you your not crazy

None of us are crazy. At least I don't think we're crazy to fight for the ones we love. However, if I'm wrong and we are completely nuts, then I'm hoping we can all be on the same floor of the nut house. What a party that would be, eh?

Keep smiling and pedal that bike of yours as much as you can. The sweat is so theraputic and cleansing. We all need to become (or continue to be) exercise freaks so at least we'll be healthy as we continue to attack the windmill like ol' Don Quixote.

I'm just sure that d*mn windmill will eventually go down if I keep chargin' it.

RTL

Hey guys...had my friend on the phone again late last night, she was going on at me again, that I am delusional, that I should just leave him alone, as in, properly, cut off contact, maybe for a year, then we could be friends. She says I am not seeing what everyone else sees, that its over. She says I am making myself ill with all of this. She is saying dont make the mistakes I did.

She is wearing down my resolve, she is making me feel bad about my choices to "wait and see", its affecting my PMA, in fact after two convos with her and one with my Dad (similiar words, only angrier), my PMA is in the ground. They are only trying to help but they are trying to force me to "let go", give up, as my Dad says..move on. Its been 4 months now, you should be moving on and not thinking about him. I am getting this from all angles now, and its very wearing and upsetting. My sister still supports me, as she went through all of this (and her and her H reunited after a year).

I think to have nothing to do with him would be a bad idea, but then, it seems to me that he is just getting on with his life and moving on. I cant see any sign of hope from him. Maybe that change I saw coming was a change in me. I am getting people telling me over and over that I should give up and move on, and its not as if I am getting any encouragement from him. So maybe everyone is right. I shoud give up. Let him go.

Sorry, I have had friends and family giving me their "advice" and trying to help as they see me as not doing so well still. Its draining. I am not happy. I guess he could sense this too, although, I make a big effort to be happy around him, as I am generally pleased to see him, so its not hard.

Ali,

I gave you a hint or two (everybody has told you the same things but it doesn't hurt to read them again), in my thread.

My friends were calling me nuts and pathetic 7 years ago. They are not this time, everybody is asking "what is your gut feeling telling you this time?" (I have their respect). Of course my new friends and colleagues are not that helpful (I am crazy for them).
Stop talking to people that make you feel bad, NO MATTER what it is they say.

L
Kalni

Hi Ali,

I think it may be time to not include the people that are unsupportive in your goal planning anymore. Not that you can't speak to them.. just don't speak to them about your sitch or your feelings about your BF. You are correct that they are not wanting to hurt you.. I'm sure they feel they are helping you.. but it is not their right to force their wants for you on you!

Take the time to figure out what it is you want. I assume you want to continue to stand for your R because you are still here.. and we on this BB want to help you move forward.. become the Ali you've always dreamed of being.. and the end result may also lure your BF back to you.. but if it doesn't you won't even care because you will be SO happy with you!

I have to get D2 up so we can get going.. work is beckoning!

TGIF!!!!

(((Ali)))
W2G

Thanks w2g and kalni! I wanted to post as I have said before, I know your sitchs must be so so much harder with children involved,to keep going anyway for yourself, for them, to keep dealing with your WAS when you have that reminder every day of how could they leave me but this family, these children. I am in admiration of your strength in that. And financially too, yes things are hard for me, but I have a choice, I have no responsibilities so I could leave college and get a job (just had my Dad getting frustrated at me about this, he thinks I should drop out before I get more in debt -getting it from all angles!). My friend left me a message apologising in case she had upset me though...

I appreciate your words, I'm not sure I can keep up the face anymore, this DBing face. Eveyone talks about DBing being about you, your journey, making yourself happy etc...but that is a side effect of the process. The process is designed to improve your R or in the last resort, lure him back (and if not, so what as you will have made yourself happy anyway)?

I think essentially, this is my problem..I'm not happy. I am getting counselling and I dont want to go to the doctor, but if I did, I am sure he would say I was depressed. I have never suffered like this before in my life..my BF leaving like that when it was the very last thing I expected or wanted, it seems to have precipitated some crisis in me and pushed me into a hole that I am struggling to rise above from.

Hence, me saying its me that feels like the mouse in a trap, and that its my BF that looms over me, getting on with his life (but I dont thikn he is happy either). So, I need to sort this out. I just dont know how to ! I guess I need a holiday..in Greece!

Ali xx

(((((Ali)))))
My friend, try to listen to Kalni, and take what she is saying to heart.

As far as your friend(s), and your dad. When they start in, tell them that you understand how they feel, but that you are choosing a different path for now, and that you would appreciate their support, rather than their criticism.

As far as YOU, we've been saying for a while that you should GAL. You've taken some baby steps there, but you seem to falter. But doing it might help get that look of desperation out of your eyes. And improve you whole outlook on life, and help chase away the depression you are feeling.

I asked this before, but I don't know that you really answered:

What do you want?
What would getting there look like?
How is that different than what exists now?

I think if you know those things, it might help you to really focus on the things you can do to make them come true.

Read Kalni's long post again. Really think about what she is saying. I think it can help a lot.

Hey Jeff...I remember you asked me that, but I wasnt sure how to answer!!

What I want? I want to get back with my BF (but not live together for a while, I think it is healthy he has his own place and own space right now). Just date. I would like us to go out and have fun in the way we werent really making the effort to since we movd away- go for coastal walks, go for drinks, meet friends for meals. Go on holiday (now I am happy to book flights).

What would getting there look like? He would have to agree to meet me in the evning for a drink, enjoy my company, agree to starting again with me, small baby steps (date once a week for example)...in the way we never did when we first got together (as we knew each other so well being best friends, we went straight into a R). But I cant see any sign of him wanting what I want. And I have tried to think about it in a reasoable way (as in not expecting him, or even wanting him to move home with me).

How is it different to now? Completely different.

I'm not sure what I've said here is what you were getting at. In the meantime, I need to get out and I will have to do it alone. I will have to try and go for walks or go to the beach alone, I cant really go for drinks/meals alone, but hey ho! I am looking to book a flight to go see my friend in Newcastle, so thats not dependent on him!

He emailed me just now to say he hoped I was having a nice time, that he was leaving work early and that he would call me at the weekend. So, yet again, keeping me informed of his movements, which is nice and I guess he doesnt have to do that?? Thanks for your support Jeff, it means alot !

Ali xx

Ali, you sound pretty good today. And how you've thought all this out sounds great as well. I think I'm going to go back and re-read DR (again) and try to start fresh...to really get this DB'ing into play.

Ali,
I think you answered the questions. I don't have time right now to think about it, but I will get back to it. I'll be back!

Hey Ali,

I am just catching up on your thread, and this caught my eye. I think your list of goal in your R sounds good and positive (can you add any you-related goals aswell?

I thought your list of baby steps was interesting and I wanted to ask you something.....

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenlyAlone

He would have to agree to meet me in the evning for a drink, enjoy my company, agree to starting again with me, small baby steps (date once a week for example)...

BF has to agree to meeting you in the evening and starting again with you..... Do you see yourself as driving this process, or do you see him driving the process? I think this is important as a distinction because although in DB we have to make changes in ourselves, we also have to be patient because the WAS is in turmoil (whether we SEE it or not). BF will have to see your changes and then will start taking steps towards you....any attempt to get him to agree to things will push him further away.

I hope I'm making sense and not sounding too harsh. I do understand what it's like to want changes quickly (I am well-known for impatience!). At the 4 month mark in my sitch, I also thought things were hopeless- nothing was moving. But 2 months later, I am getting baby steps.

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenlyAlone

But I cant see any sign of him wanting what I want. And I have tried to think about it in a reasoable way (as in not expecting him, or even wanting him to move home with me).

If BF wanted what you want, what would be the VERY FIRST sign of that? I don't mean sayng that he wants what you want, or suggesting trying again. It will be something subtle and tiny, like the flutter or a butterfly's wing. Once you have it in your mind, start looking out for it. It might be worth making a list; for example, on my list is that H might start to hold eye contact for longer than a 'friend' would. It's something that is tiny, but signals a change. In fact it's so tiny it was hardly noticeable at all!

I hope I'm not being too direct Ali- please feel free to 2x4 me if I am....

L.xx

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenlyAlone

I appreciate your words, I'm not sure I can keep up the face anymore, this DBing face. Eveyone talks about DBing being about you, your journey, making yourself happy etc...but that is a side effect of the process. The process is designed to improve your R or in the last resort, lure him back (and if not, so what as you will have made yourself happy anyway)?

I think essentially, this is my problem..I'm not happy.

Hi Ali. Changing your perception of DB really is key to you moving forward. I my situation it started off being a 'game' putting on a 'face', but once I got the hang of it, then it really did become all about me. The process isnt actually to improve your R - that's not actually the goal..... ?????..... Its actually to improve you so that you are happy and centered. And then out of that will flow a fantastic new relationship (hopefully with BF, but we cant rule out that you might meet someone new, or you might decide that you would like to be single for a couple of years). Until you get you happy and centered you are not going to draw BF back, and even if he did come back you would repeat the same behaviour that caused the break down of the relationship.

And I really think you hold the answers about what will make you happy (independent of your relationship) and centered.

I'd like to see your goals not even have the words BF in them. For your goals to focus solely on you.

About the friend things. For me personally no-one in my family or friends knows that I'm DB. I just got such a negative reaction from people when I started to mention DB that I decided I didnt need to tell them. And you know what if you were getting over BF and moving on with your life, that would LOOK exactly the same as if you are DB. If you are DB your friends and family should be thinking "wow, Ali has bounced back fast and is moving on with her life".

The only difference is that you move on forward in your life because you love your BF, not because you hate him and you want to get over him ASAP. And you leave the door open to the possibility of reconciliation, if that is what he choses.

Maybe it would help you to stop "DB" and start acting like he is never coming back and you have to get over him? (Thoughts from other DB advisers welcome here!)

$\:\)$ Big hugs

Hey Ali,

I don't think I'm an expert DB adviser in any way, but my observations of your sitch are that you have made the most progress when BF has been under the impression you have moved on (eg those fantastic DBing interactions you had after the NC period ended).

In my sitch, I think I've been getting baby steps since I started acting as if I had moved on, and was being pursued by someone else. Although I wouldn't recommend dating anyone else, I've read on lots of success stories that the minute the WAS let go and started getting on with their own life for themselves was the minute the WAS started moving towards them.

I think Essie's advice is spot-on.

(((Ali)))

L.xx

I've heard alot of that as well OneDay. It's hard for me to get to that point, but I've just started from the beginning again by listing my goals on my thread to work on ME and maybe one day I'll get there as well.

Ali, I still think you're doing just fine. You've been here, what, 4-5 months now and look at the progess you've made!

Hey everyone! Dar...Ive been here 2 months!! We had met in a pub Boxing Day, he wouldnt look me in the eye, he couldnt speak to me, he didnt want to accept my presents (and when he opened them he texted me to say he would give me the money back. And they were excellent presents! One was tickets to see his favourite comedian, who was on a sold out tour - I'd called every box office and managed to blag 2 tickets that werent for sale, right near the stage!) He didnt contact me for a month...until I saw him on 26th January, although I also hadnt contacted him since 1 January as that is when I did start DBing I guess - with NC and I didnt break it once! (yes, I'm proud).

So we have certainly come a long way from that. I feel a bit better today, I've seen two old mates today who were pleased to see me and said I looked great and both said that my hair was glossy !!! Feeling like a labrador :-) Seeing another good mate tommorow night and staying over - the W of my BF best friend. I dont know how he will feel when he founds out, he will be a little surprised and it may make him think.

Hi Essie, my favourite australian! I missed you!..this happy centred stuff to draw him back..I WAS happy and centred and had a very settled happy life before he left. And since he left me I have been incredibly unhappy! I need to get past that. For years in my R I had my art classes, my career, my pottery classes, astrology training, good friends, I volunteered at the animal shelter..I had a life. Then we moved away and we lost all our support systems and both struggled with that.I didnt realise though how unhappy he was. I did struggle at college and got ill alot and my cat got really sick so...I lent on him and was vunerable in a way I had never been before in our R. I had always been the happy strong one to his melancholy misery guts! But I didnt mind, I found it endearing. He learnt to wear a mask so he wasnt openly miserable with me, but I knew he suffered that way and I was accepting of it (I suggested he went for counselling and acupuncture, although you cant make someone do these things. He did try but he didnt keep going). As he said when he left me "its not about you, this is whats right for me" and evidently he has been unhappy for a long time. But I need to start building a life for myself, the one I had with him for 9 years has gone now.

Hi Lisa!...I was being very very wishful thinking in my post earlier, theres no way I could drive that getting back to dating thing! I cant even ask him his address, neverlone to ask him for a drink! I think you are very brave in your sitch, emailing a list of outings to your H, thats amazing! I did ask my BF to stay for dinner twice after spending the afternoon together, but he says no and makes some lame excuse, which tells me that he really doesnt want to stay for dinner. Not that he cant becuase he already defrosted some chicken. I havent yet ventured a "shall we go for a drink sometime", I was afraid that it would be seen as pressure? And he'd say no? Its my birthday Monday, so maybe I should say..I could come over to his village where there is a really nice bar on the beach.suggest we meet for a drink in the week? (not ON my birthday)..see what he says ? What do you guys think?

You posted about baby steps on your sitch, you got me thinking..my BF did do a bit of a double take when he came to pick me up (I had dressed up), but didnt say anything. Also, in the car I was staring at him alot down the motorway and he returned my gaze a few times and a couple of times he held my gaze for a while and had that affectionate crease to his eyes and I remember as I thought it was perhaps a long time to look into someones eyes when you are doing 80 in the fast lane!! So maybe this was a little bit significant?? Although he does maintain eye contact with me now when he comes to the house, whereas he couldnt look me in the eye at all before..but I just took this to mean that he is comfortable being my friend now and that awkwardness has gone now that he is feeling less guilty??

In terms of what I woud look for..I guess giving me his address would be a major step, but again, could point to him being more comfortable as a mate. So a sign for me would have to be something romantic - taking my hand, a kiss, asking to meet me for a drink, and so far I have had nothing close to that. It is remarkable, but he hasnt made a move toward me since he day he ended it. Just bang, over.

And Jeff...you tease! Where have you gone? Are you ankle deep in muffins?

Sorry Ali! (((((((Ali)))))))

I've been in the lad all day, actually working!

I will write something tonight, so you'll have something to wake up to, you labrador, you!

It sounds like you may finally be seeing that there really are some baby steps going on. I think eye contact at 80 is a big deal! And let him notice you awesomeness without having to say anything, ok?

I think I like the idea of asking him out for a drink in a week, but let me think a bit more on that!

I was thinking...on Thursday, I replied to an email fom him about hm getting drunk the night before, saying I was at my parents and could do with getting out for a drink myself. He took this to mean I was having a stressful time, but didnt reply till the end of the day on Friday. I just feel that theres nothing earth shattering about these communications still, hes just being a friend, I dont see any change (baby steps) He said:

hiya,

sorry sounds like a bit of a mare - hope its getting a bit better? been flat out today but my boss left early (!) so i am too. hope you're having a nice time - will speak over the weekend.

me

..its just...nothing special? Its better than nothing! but I have never had more than this since he ended it. After the bomb he woud email to say, hope you're ok, leaving work, will email tommorow. Me. After things became fraught between us, he started signing his messages with his name and then stopped contacting me all together. So we're only back to where we were after he ended it, and then he was pretty definite it was over for good because he DLYA and didnt believe the feelings would ever return. And I havent seen any sign of that they have. Maybe I shuldnt ask him for a drink, but then..what do I have to lose now?

Ali,

I am here following your thinking. We have electricity black outs here in Athens and it is stressful cause I am typing and loosing it all in a sec...

You give yourself the answers in the same paragraph you are asking... You were a couple, then "friends" then nothing, now friends again and then...

The only way you can get back together is through going through all the stages. He can't jump in a R again with you and continue business as usual. You said it yoursefl, he doesn't sound the normal him. He needs a break. You need a break too. Have you figured out yet what went wrong? Honestly? Can you please share it with me again if you do not mind?

You could ask him for a drink and if he says "no" you'll be (at least) disappointed, if he says "yes" you'll be wondering tommorow if he accepted as a friend because he wants to be polite... Take a pick...

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
K

Hey Ali,

Ummmm..... what K said (but without the bit about the blackouts!)

I wouldn't ask him for a drink- it's a tiny little bit of pressure (or he might construe it in his confusion as pressure). Let him do the asking. Breathe. Be patient. Organise something fantastic for yourself for your birthday. Come and visit London maybe! Someone on another thread posted 4 stages to reconciliation (that came from a DB coach)

1. Letting go of anger
2. Friendship
3. Romance
4. Reconciliation

You know where you are right now, and you got there by letting BF come to you. It's working, so don't change it!!

L.xx

Ali,

I'm checking in from Seattle and I wanted to get up to date w/ you.

I read something from Jeff where he said:

Quote:

When they start in, tell them that you understand how they feel, but that you are choosing a different path for now, and that you would appreciate their support, rather than their criticism

He is right on here. I have friends who think I'm crazy for even wanting to have my wife back and I simply either tell them to keep the negatives down or I filter things very selectively. Filter, filter, filter. Let it all run right in and out if you don't feel comfortable telling them to support your current track. Also, keep any discussions about you and BF out of your interactions and conversations w/ your friends who don't support your current actions concerning your BF.

I know you are frustrated and you want this to end. We all do. The list from the DB coach said step one was to lose the anger and step two was friendship. You are in the friendship stage, so know you are half-way to getting your BF to return to you. Keep that in mind as you struggle w/ your frustration and with being in love w/ someone who is lost, confused, and struggling right now.

Finally, I'm having my first DB conversation w/ a coach on Tuesday (my original one was rescheduled), so I will let you know what I learned from this meeting. You may be interested in meeting w/ one yourself. Just a thought.

Take care and keep going.

RTL

Hey everyone... I HAVE SOME NEWS !!!!! Sorry for shouting,but I am a little bit excited (dangerous I know)...I got my sign, something has changed!!! The sitch is still the same for now though..

So...I went to stay with my BF best mate W last night, I was very excited about this because a) she is lovely and we get on great b) she is super supportive of my stance and of us and always says "I think you are doing the right thing, keep doing what you are doing" and c) if anyone would know anything, she would.

Her H is very very secretive and never shares stuff with her, especially anything my BF says to him, as he is his confidant and best pal since they were 7. So what she knew she was very fearful of telling me in case they found out she had broken that trust. He wouldnt tell his W much, but...

Two weeks ago I said my BF went back home and texted me to say he felt "low". Well, in fact he was worse than low she said, he turned up in tears and was very very low. He went for a drink with her H and got blind drunk. Her H finally told her why, but all he would say is my BF said "hes not sure he has made the right decision" !!!! And that he is not doing so well, that he is struggling and unhappy. Also, she assured me that he has NOT met anyone else and wouldnt, definetly not as he is NOT looking for anyone else!!!! Apparently he is impressed that I am so positive and have stayed at college and gotten 3 jobs (DBing works!)

Her H has been advising him that its ok to admit to having made a mistake, people do make mistakes, BUT (and I'm not so keen on this bit) that he musnt say a word to me, unless he is absolutely certain he was wrong. He told him that I was so devastated the first time around, that he cant risk doing it to me twice, so therefore should stick with his decision unless he is certain, with no doubts. (Jeez...how much pressure there !!!??) Apparently though, he still needs time and space to decide.

I was suffering so much with nothing to go on, and now I have this, I will carry on and do all I can. Its given me the impedus to keep going, for myself, for him. I'm going to reread your posts and especially Kalni - now I can see him as a lost mouse and I am the lab technician! I need to get out and GAL more. And RTL,Jeff, OneDay..thats so helpful what yuo said also, I didnt realise that that was the pattern...becuase he WAS angry, then there was NC, then there was tentative contact and now we are into almost friendship..and I only dream of romance being next!!

In answer to your question Kalni, apparently, he is very unhappy and has realised that it was not me causing it (durr!!), and thats partly why he left though. But also she told me, it was an issue for him that I stopped going out so much to places with him. I had been getting ill for 5 years with a recurring virus (I dont anymore) and so I became very fearful of going out, in case I got ill, or got cold, or caught something..so I ewas sociable, but alot of times I let him go to parties and things alone. This is something we need to work on, we need to get back to having fun together. I am a little angry that he didnt just talk to me about this, but I guess everything got to much, it wasnt one thing (she said this).

He will probably be here after lunch to take me home. He still needs time and space apparently...so I am worried about seeing him, but in a different way to yesterday! I am nervous, I feel like I am on show, being tested.

But...I got my sign as I hoped!!! I am not a banana !!! :-) (phew, I dont have to give up astrology!)

W2G..and your instincts were right about the joint property. His best friends W tried to talk to him about sorting things out as we have alot of joint finances...and he said quite categorically to her that "we are leaving everything as it is"..and she was surprised to hear that and also thinks it is a good sign !

He has texted me to ask when I want to leave, I said whenever you are ready. He replied saying he's not sure as feels v rough and will call later. Oh dear. He never used to drink this much! But then it was a stag do, so not surprising. Feeling nervous! Buoght a new dress for the journey :-)

Ali, I'm SOOO happy to hear of this news! Everything will fall into place, I can feel it! I'm in a very positive mood today, but I can feel it for you!
And I bet you look so hot in your new dress that he'll be drooling (to himself ofcourse!). $\:\)$

Ooooh, a new dress! What's it look like???

I am so happy that you have some confirmation of his doubts. I hope this gives you some fresh motivation to DB and to be patient. He does need to work through this on his own.

Yay! (((Ali)))

Yay!!! Hurray for joint property.. and hurray for best friend's wife opening up to you! This is the information you needed to continue on your journey.. and I know that all of us are glad that you don't have to give up on your passion for astrology!!

Please tell us about your new dress and your BF's reaction to this dress!

W2G

Ali,

Happy to hear you got good news, but I am not surprised. Your BF told you exactly what he was thinking and you kept doing positive things.

So as I have said all along, be patient. And there will be ups and downs. Don't get caught up in them.

Perhaps you are a plantain!!!

Good luck. Stay positive. Be patient.

IMP

Hey everyone...thanks for your support!! I was thrilled to hear of a chink in his armour, whilst also thinking...but it is still over and he may well still want to stick with that decision. But the good news is..he got me a birthday present !!!! My god! I think that counts as a goal achieved (I hoped he would remember it).

But unfortunately, just as I was supposed to stick with what I was doing as you all say...I had a major backslide. I'm annoyed at myself and wondering if I have undone some of the good I have done so far.

We got to the house and I saw a dead mouse by my cat, but I was feeling emotional as its my birthday tommorow and he was there and its the night before and he hadnt mentioned it... So he saw my face and started asking what was wrong and if I was alright? I said, well, yes, sort of...and he saw the mouse and said, oh, is that whats wrong? And I said..well, partly.. (oh dear!!)

He insisted on cleaning it up for me, then he was looking all nervy and went to the door where my bags were and said..um, I got yuo a present for your birthday and was amazed and said "REALLY!?", but he hadnt wrapped it he said and started getting it out of my bag where he had hidden it and I got emotional and asked him, but you're giving it to me tonight? And he said well yes, and then bunged it at me !!!!

But it was an Editors CD...and I just crumpled, I sort of started to cry, or nearly... he had remembered, I told him a few weeks ago that I had wanted this CD! He got all anxious and said several times "oh I didnt mean to upset you!" and gave me a hug and I thanked him and said I was very touched that he had remembered and that it was very kind of him...but all in a very emotional loaded voice. He said, well I'll call you tommorow and again, stupidly, I looked upset and said "REALLY!? and he said, yes, of course..and I stood there dumbfounded and he said again several times, I'm so sorry, I dont want to upset you..to which I replied, no dont be daft, its me thats sorry, I'm sorry for getting upset. And he laughed nervously and said, its not you that should be apologising. He gave me another light hug at the door and now he looked upset and stressed and repeated that he hadnt meant to upset me and that he would contact me tommorow and then literally legged it with me just staring at him in probably the most emotional face imaginable.

So..damn. I really messed up, but he caught me unawares! I guess I just shouldnt even refer to it tommorow, or ever!

At least he bought me a present :-) Amazing.

Hi Ali,

That's great news that he got you this birthday gift! It is showing some thoughtfulness on his part and that he is still tuned in to you. He isn't sure how to go about making contact sometimes, I would guess.

I can imagine far worse backsliding than you have described! Don't be too hard on yourself. It took you by surprise, so we can't expect ourselves to always know how to react to every given twist and turn in this business. We're all learning how to handle and manage the range of different emotions that come up and the particular triggers that are likely to bring it about.

The big deal here is not the backsliding but the shift for him! And that means that you are doing some good work on your part also, Ali!

YAY!! I imagine this feels like a pretty great birthday present; enjoy it, as you certainly deserve it.

Happy Birthday (((((Ali))))

Purr

Yay!!! He remembered! That's fantastic!

((((((((((Ali))))))))))

Happy Birthday!

I'm glad you are finally hearing what we've been saying from someone else! And he did remember your birthday! Though it sounds like you may have scared the poor man to death! Don't think about it again, or breath a word about it! The sooner it's forgotten, the better, and saying anything won't help!

I hope you have a great day!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY ((ALI))

what a week mrs astrologer, huh?

To me it didn't sound like a backsliding (at least not a big one). Get over it fast, it's great that he remembered...
Let him lead now...

K

Thanks everyone...yes it is my birthday and I need to get out and GAL more from now on!! But...I was taken aback, that he remembered my birthday and I was also shocked at the events this weekend, as you all know I predicted a while back there would be a change, or news. In fact, last December I spoke to an astrologer and we agreed nothing would change until Uranus went over my Sun on 9th March. So I was shocked that that came true! I had high hopes we would be talking about getting back together by that date, but at least I know he is still considering that.

I saw this on your thread Kalni and I couldnt agree more, its how I feel:

Quote:

I am guilty because I had a very good man I've been in love with, for the last 11-12 years and I pushed him away. I should have been smarter. I am just now starting to come to terms with the fact that I can't change the past and that maybe this was my ONLY chance to get myself in shape and get ready for the future (with or without him).

I've known my BF 12 years and it was love at first sight for him but I also accept that I pushed him away (and how he handled it was down to his own emotional issues), I too should have been smarter. Its been hard to swallow that stuff but the terrible feeling of regret is less now, I am just grateful for what hes taught me and hope I dont repeat those R mistakes.

And Jeff...I wsa so worried that I have scared him to death and I wasnt planning on mentioning it at all. But I do wonder how to proceed now..and Kalni you say just let him lead? I guess theres nothing more I can do. He's still clearly scared (like yuor H) and reluctant to jump, the indecision is killing him I see that now. Thats why he cant sleep and gets drunk alot. He talked about not knowing whether to sell his Dads house or not and he muttered "I am having trouble making decisions at the moment" and I knew he meant the decisions about me also.

But I guess all I can do is keep DBing? But I sense he is very stuck, a frightened mouse who doesnt know which way to bolt. I wondered if I couldnt say something or do something to galvanise him. I feel he needs reassurance that I dont have high expectations (his friend piled loads of guilt on him about not hurting me again)..that it would be ok to simply talk and not get back together and I dont even expect him to move back in. But I dont know how I could make him see this. Or the alternative is, I pull back a little, make myself less available, but maybe thats dangerous.

Anyway...its my birthday!!! I have had calls and presents already which takes the sting out of waking up alone. Its a terrible storm here, lashing rain and tremendous gales.

Good morning Sweetheart!!

Happy birthday again!

I say you let him take the lead, just make sure he leads you to the right place (...in bed)(LOL!!).

I don't know what to say. Once they get their foot out of the door, it sure is difficult for them to walk back in. So, I suppose you keep reminding your better you and let him do the walk...

Love
K

Hey Ali!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Have a wonderful day today- eat lots of cake!!

I agree with K. leet him oake the lead. Be there as a best and trusted friend and reassure him in that way. No sudden moves or the mouse will crawl back into his house!!

L. xx

Happy Birthday Ali!!

Love the gift.. You are human and I'msure you were more than suprised by the gesture so please put your reaction behind you and keep up the good work!

I'm still waiting to hear about your dress.

Happy Birthday Ali!!!

Happy Birthday, Ali.

I'm so happy to hear of the positives that are going on w/ your BF. He is seriously beginning to reconsider his decision to leave, so keep taking care of yourself and let him make the decision to continue to come back to you.

He took a huge step by remembering your birthday. Don't worry about your "backslide" b/c you were caught off guard. I'd look at it as a positive b/c it means you've lowered your expectations for your BF. That is good. Lowering your expectations means you'll see EVERYTHING he does for you as a gift. If you have expectations, then you'll end up being disappointed b/c what he does do won't measure up.

Keep going on. Keep the expectations out of things and keep DBing for you and your well-being. It is true we can gauge our effectiveness in our DBing by the reactions we are getting from our partners, but we can't DB for anyone other than us.

We will make ourselves healthy, but ultimately it is up to our partners to choose to look at what we've done and how far we've come.

Have a wonderful day. You deserve it.

RTL

Thankyou everyone!!! Had lots of lovely messages and cards today, quite a difference to last year. My BF leaving has meant that I really have reconnected with my old friends..reasons to be grateful !

Yes about last night.. I thought that too! He said to me as I was all emotional "its only a CD!" so it must have been clear to him that my expectations are at zero.

Today I've been out for lunch with friends from college, which was a good laugh. Its very stormy here and blowing a hooligan! So I didnt wear the dress (its another black and white, shortish dress, flows nicely and this one fits!) as the weather was bad last night too. I got an email from my BF today asking how my day was and did I have plans tonight? I wrote alot of positive chatty stuff back and told him I was supposed to have dinner with friends tonight, but she has tonsilitis so cant now. Then he emailed back to say the following...which is interesting? I wonder if he is going to be honest with the doctor about how bad he is feeling and whether he is inviting me to ask whats wrong??

hiya,

glad they took you out to lunch - thought they would do. I feel absolutely knackered today, really terrible actually. Going to docs in a bit but may try calling after. Shame about yoko being ill too. Sorry such a quick email - running out of time. Glad you like the cd though.

me

Hmm..may try calling later..giving him 2 get out clauses there! His doctors is 5 minutes from here. He would be finished by now, but no word from him. Wonder if he was honest with the doctor about not sleeping and drinking so much all the time and how low he feels? He never goes to the doctors unless he absolutely has to.

(((((Ali)))))
Is the email address in your profile correct?

He is running himself down, it seems. I don't think he'll keep it up for long.

Interesting about the e-mail. I hope he feels better soon. It almost sounded like he was either feeling you out about your plans, or even seeing if you'd be interested in doing something.....maybe I'm reading too much into it!

Fantastic!!! Thankyou Jeff, that made me laugh !! You are a sweetie. We've all said it, over and over again...your W is a nutcase!!! (no offence).

Good point - he is running himself into the ground. He got drunk 4 nights in a row. At the stag do, he said his brother counted up the pints they had but lost track in the evening, so in the day he had 17 !!! And he said he had more than his brother. This is really worrying. For years he would go out and have a fair few drinks, but only one night a week, plus 2 or 3 after work on a Friday, but never 20+ pints. Thats ridiculous.

Hes been doing this for 2 months now. It started after Christmas when he went to visit a friend in France, they drank 20 litres of wine in under 5 days...about 3 bottles each a day. Oh and 2 crates of beer. I guess he really doesnt want to face himself or his pain, whatever it is.

And yes Michelle..thats what I thought! He has always been saying things by inference lately, so when he said, got any plans? It seemed to me that he was sounding me out..then he says he feels really ill and is going to the doctors !? I dont know, I am worried that he is stuck and we are going to miss our "moment".

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenlyAlone

Fantastic!!! Thankyou Jeff, that made me laugh !! You are a sweetie. We've all said it, over and over again...your W is a nutcase!!! (no offence).

(((((Ali)))))

Thanks! You know, in a way, I guess she is a nutcase. Though I'm sure that I contributed to that, at least to some degree. This has me thinking, but not feeling like writing. I might post later, on my thread, if I can sort out what's running through my brain.

Ali, Happy Bday! I hope BF's appointment with his doc goes well and he tells him what's honestly going on in his life. That's the only way to get real help with any issues.

Ali...

Listen to yourself here:

Quote:

I am worried that he is stuck and we are going to miss our "moment"

You won't miss your "moment" because none of us can plan for our particular "moments" to occur. You are trying to manipulate the situation and you know you can't do that.

You can't force anything, so in reality, there is NO MOMENT TO BE MISSED! The only thing that may be "missed" is the moment you want to happen.

Don't stress over this. If this "moment" passes by, that just means it wasn't the right "moment" for you two. Your time will come only when it is supposed to come and not a second sooner, my dear.

Keep going strong, don't worry and continue to enjoy your birthday.
RTL

You are making progress day by day to reestablishing a friendship, if anything you are making moments, not missing them. Patience! $\:\)$ (((Ali)))

Hi Ali,

I am thrilled that you had such a great birthday. You sure deserve to have a day that honours your specialness and that feels warm and comforting, given the ups and downs that have been unfolding in your life.

I am thinking of you and wish you peace and strength of heart in this next year.

(((Ali)))

Purr

HAPPY BIRTHDAY ALI! Glad you've had a special day xx

Question: If you were going to give up on DB-ing what would you do that is different? (not sure that make sense?!? - What would the difference look like between DB-ing and not DB-ing?) What would the difference be to you, a casual observer, your BF, or a close friend?

I wouldnt be seeing my boyfriend very much anymore, I probably wouldnt check my emails day to day, although I have to for lots of other reasons, but I wouldnt be curious if he had emailed. I wouldnt be talking to my friends on the phone about the fact he emailed and said he had gone to the doctors. Other than that, my life wouldnt change much...I'd carry on at college, I'd keep doing all my wierd part-time jobs, I'd go see my best mate in Newcastle (planning to when she is free), I'd carry on trying (trying!) to make friends here and going back home occassionally to see old friends. I'd go to pottery, pilates and maybe guitar lessons again.

Eventually I guess, I may meet someone, but I'd be very cautious about that, after being so badly hurt. But I would probably still be in counselling anyway, adressing my "tough love" mother issues and co-dependent parent crap. And I'd be worrying about never having children when we had the chance 2 years ago.

So really...I dont think it would be much different, except I wouldnt be thinking about him and I wouldnt be in love with him anymore. I'd be "over" it. So the biggest difference would be if I werent DBing...I wouldnt worry how I spoke/dealt with him. I would be myself. If I was cross he hadnt bothered to sort out the remortgage yet, as he hasnt, I would tell him and offer to do it myself. I wouldnt worry that I should be patient and careful to not "pressure" him. If he emailed me, I wouldnt think twice about replying and saying "How you doing? Want to meet up for a drink?", because I wouldnt be waiting anymore for some sign from him that he may change his mind. I wouldnt worry how my words or actions affected him. I wouldnt be acting "as if". I wouldnt be always thinking to listen and validate. I'd just be my old self, regardless of the consequences.

For me..its about my communications with my BF, and the other stuff (GALing, PMA etc) is about getting back to my old self, the happy-go-lucky Ali, before this traumatic thing happened to me.

But that day feels some way off right now!

Ali xxx

Blimey...

am shaking, feel sick. I am amazed, upset, glad, relieved and worried sick in equal measure. I just got an email from my BF about the doctors, he implies I think that he was feeling suicidal, he doesnt say things lightly. Even so, he is finally admitting what indeed I have known for several years - hes depressed. I have to respond and I am agonosing over what to say. I'm trying to DB my response, but maybe that should all go out of the window right now. I have to tell him I am here for him?

Hi al,

Hope you had a nice evening last night. Sorry I didn't call, I just
feel flattened I'm so tired. I went to the doctors yesterday, not for
the first time, basically necause I feel so flat and low. Probably felt
that way for years as you know but its been real bad for a while so knew
I had to do something about it. Anyway, I finally given in and got some
anti-depressants, I just got so low that I needed something to help cos
I dodn't know where it was going to end. I'm supposed ot be having
counselling too but I think theres a bit of a wait for that. So I guess
I'll just have to see if the pills work a bit. I should've talked to
you in the car about it but I just don't feel like talking much at the
moment - when I do it's a bit of an effort.

Sorry this is all about me, didn't think it was right to go on about
yesterday. It's a shame yoko was ill, but I hope you had a nice evening
anyway - did you do anything?

me

I feel so emotional right now. I want to give him a big hug and make it all alright and of course I cant and thats not the answer anyway.

Ali

Ali,

You said it perfectly...

"I'm here for you."

Nothing else need be said.

IMP

Ali,

I would say two things:
One, your reply to Essie is what you should be working on. That, to me, is DBing. That is what you have to do regardless of what BF decides.

Two, I think your reply was correct. Keep it short. Throw it out there and see what he chooses to do.

The meds will take several weeks (up to two months, in some cases) to really have an effect, but they will help him over time. He also needs to make sure he isn't drinking as that will negate the effects of the anti-depressants and only make him more depressed.

Keep going. You are moving in the direction you've been waiting for.

RTL

Hey RTL...
I feel a million times better, althuogh I miss him just as much, but I suppose I got my answer. What I suspected all along - he is depressed and severly so I would say, judging at the amount of drinking he has been doing. That would explain the way he acted and how he left me, but I dont suppose it will necessarily mean we will ever get back together. And he will probably be feeling fragile right now anyway and not focused on our R ! I'm so glad for him that he has finally got diagnosed though.

I sent him an email at lunchtime, saying lots of things, thanked him for telling me, thanked him for apologising about not speaking up sooner, but that I realise how hard its been for him to talk about this, told him well done for going to the doctor and I could see it wasnt only brave, but necessary, apologised for not asking him if he was ok, but that I respected his right to tell me in his own good time, also, that I am always here for him if he ever wants to talk, or needs anything. That he doesnt have to feel like he is alone with it.

I was thinking about Essies question and for me, DBing has been about managing the contact with my BF. The rest has all been a natural grieving process. My BF gave me maybe 6 weeks warning that he was going to do this so it felt like a big trauma, there was no lead in, no argueing, no discussion at all at any point. We'd had a lovely summer in fact, but I was sure that he was depressed (although he kept saying he was just tired!) Even after he left me he emailed me to state he wasnt depressed, he wasnt going to snap out of it, he just didnt love me anymore. Clearly, he is depressed! But it was all such a shock that it was like he had died. So, 4 months on, I am doing a lot better. I was even whistling and skipping along earlier eating a chocolate bar :-) I have been feeling alot better and him finally owning up to his depression does feel like a weight has been lifted off me. I wonder if it does for him too, that hes actually been honest at last.

he didnt reply to my email today, which doesnt surprise me. Maybe I overdid it on the sorries and thankyous and I am always here for you's, day or night. For once, I just said what felt right !

Well, I hope this is a turning point for him being able to make himself happy. What that means for the future is up for grabs, but I am so happy he is confiding in you. You are obviously being very successful at being a good listener.

(((Ali)))

(((((Ali)))))
So, now you know he isn't sure, and you have more of a clue of what's going on. So that's all good. And you know that it really isn't about you! And, I think it is clear, that the way you have been handling things has helped the situation. You are probably one of the only people he can come to. So I'd say keep doing what you are doing, with perhaps a bit less analysis!

Hey Jeff and Michelle..
Michelle, I'm so sorry for the latest developments with yur H, I wanted to post but I wasnt sure what to say, but I'm sorry as its been hard for you to find that stuff out. Thanks for your kind words to me.

Well, he didnt reply to my email which is sad, I was hoping he would, but perhaps not surprised. I'm a bit worried I "over-egged" it in my email to him. I just reread it and I think it is ok. But what he told me is so massive and to imply things were getting that bad that he didnt know how it would end up, it sounds so serious and he is my love and I wish I could just talk to him at a time like this. Its so hard. I guess I'm not feeling too hopeful, he has probably known for a little while he was depressed, but only now caved in and got tablets (we are the same in this respect and are very anti these pills unless you are a danger to yourself), so makes me realise he must have been. Thats so bad, I wish he had been able to tell me sooner.

I dont really understand why he couldnt. I've always been there for him, since we were friends, and helped him through so many down times before and his Dads illness and death. Its wierd he couldnt turn to me this time. But I am really glad he is facing up to it anyway, he couldnt go on like he was in life. I wonder what the likelihood is of him realising he lost something precious in me, or whether he will stand by his decision, despite the depression. At least I heard from his best mates W that he wasnt sure he had done the right thing, so I have to hold that in my mind and wait and see now....?

Ali x

Hi Ali!

Just catching up on your thread, and WOW- so much has happened! You must have been so relieved to hear what best mates W had to say about BFs state of mind. Talk about spooky predictions aswell. Amazing!!

I think you did the right thing by showing support and love to BF after he'd opened up to you about how he was feeling. I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of reply yet. Could he be busy doing something? He might reply tomorrow. Don't let it affect your PMA though- you've been so lucky to get an insight into BFs thinking, and to know he is having doubts about leaving is HUGE! Also, he is starting to open up to you again. That is a great baby step.

Keep going!

Hi Ali,

That was quite the email you received from your BF today. It speaks volumes to me that he shared that personal information with you. Shows that he feels comfortable with you and I'm sure you are one of the very few people he is going to open up about this.

Once he's on his meds for a bit he'll be feeling so much better. I can't imagine it's been easy for him living with his depression for so long now.. everything must be so clouded in negativity for him... It can only get better now that he's sought help from his Dr.

He's lucky to have a good person like you wanting to be there for him.

I think you're email was just fine.

Hugs,
W2G

Don't know why Ali, I thought I post this on your thread... I could post it on mine, on BBjs on so many others as well...
This is how I feel and I am sure you feel too..

XXXXXX
Love Always
K

By Your Side Sade

You think I'd leave your side baby?
You know me better than that
You think I'd leave down when you're down on your knees?
I wouldn't do that

I'll do you right when you're wrong
I-----ohhh, ohhh

If only you could see into me

oh, when your cold
I'll be there to hold you tight to me
When you're on the outside baby and you can't get in
I will show you, you're so much better than you know
When you're lost, when you're alone and you can't get back again
I will find you darling I'll bring you home

If you want to cry
I am here to dry your eyes
and in no time you'll be fine

You think I'd leave your side baby
You know me better than that
You think I'd leave you down when your down on your knees
I wouldn't do that

I'll do you right when your wrong
I-----I, ohhhh, ohhh

If only you could see into me

Oh when you're cold
I'll be there
To hold you tight to me
Oh when you're alone
I'll be there by your side baby

Oh when you're cold
I'll be there
To hold you tight to me
Oh when you're alone
I'll be there by your side baby

Thanks so much kalni, that bought tears to my eyes! If only I could send that to him. And you are so right, that is exactly how I feel (although I dont know that song) so thank you. Love you too Kalni !

I had an email from him today, about the remortgage, but also says..
"Thanks for your email, it means a lot. Will talk a bit more..."

and so that was it. But at least he said it meant alot. I had high hopes for a while about this Thursday...Venus moves into Pisces. When he told me he was going away Friday, I wondered if I would see him before he went. Well, sure enough, he also asked in his email to come round on Thursday night! So thats good. I'm not sure if we will talk then (as he alludes to in his email), and if we do, what it is he will have to say. I have a horrible feeling he will say thats it now..hes done, because he hasnt really emailed me this week as he was the previous weeks, all those chatty funny emails we were exchanging have stopped. I know him facing up to depression is a big deal, but he implied its not news to him, so maybe he will want to sort himself out before jumping back into a R with me, or anyone. He probably knows I am waiting for him, my reaction when he gave me the CD would prove that. Maybe he will want to let me know there is no point.

It could be the opposite though! He could confess what he did to his friend two weeks ago, that he is not sure he made the right decision! Its all speculation, maybe I will find out tommorow.

And thanks W2G... and thats a good point, if you are depressed I guess everything would seem really negative and maybe thats why he felt there was no hope for our R and no point trying to fix it. And I still think he wont necessarily change his view of that, but I will just have to see how things go and hope!

((Ali)), you're back to analyzing too much! We can give eachother advice, but can't do what we say to eachother. Why is that? $\:\)$
I think he's just coming to terms with the depression and that's alot to take in for him having to admit to it and all.
Take it easy and enjoy that he wants to get together this week.

He's coming for his post and to get a suitcase for his holiday. Hopefully though, he is also coming for a chat. And now the "truth is out there" in a way it would be hard to sit and pretend and wear our masks to one another, as we have been doing since all this began, so perhaps its inevitable that some conversation will take place... Which makes me think, it would be wise to be prepared for that eventuality! I did ask before about this, so far I havent had an R talk (not one that he instigated!) thats what I have been waiting and waiting for. So presumably its just all that listen and validate stuff !? Any advice would be appreciated..

I wont know until he's here of course, like I said, its all speculation for now and I will find out tommorow. I invited him for dinner, but also said or, were you going to come round after you've eaten? So he has a get out clause if he doesnt want to eat with me or hang around. Hopefully he will agree though, it would be the first time since November that he sat and ate a meal with me.

$\:\)$ Nice feedback from BF on your email. Glad to hear that because I know you were concerned that you had said too much.

I've got my fingers crossed that you'll have a nice dinner together. The power of positivity!!! But in my opinion I would omit any R talk unless he leads.. Just my $0.02.

W2G
$;\)$

Ali,

try this, maybe it will work, I am no pc wizzard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MKHJ5Cyk90

He opened up to you, don't push him further than he is ready to go. You are still his special girl, he "let you in". Don't go overboard scaring him off. It is important since this is the first meeting after the email. Wait for him Ali, he needs you to be there but let him decide when he can reach out to you.

K

Hey Ali!

That's so great that you'll be seeing him before he goes away. I think if he initiates R talk, listen and validate. Don't offer too many of your own thoughts- let him do the talking. And don't initiate aany R talks yourself (apart from maybe to ask how he's doing, which I think is what a friend would do in this situation in any case).

Let us know how it goes. Thinking of you!

L.xx

Hey everyone - thank you for that Kalni! It worked beautifully! Sade - I remember now.

Well guys, I am worried. All those emails back and forth for weeks, being "friends" - he was making a decision? And now that process has come to an end - with his diagnosis. He hardly emails. He doesnt say "hope you are ok" either. He sent me an email Tuesday morning about his depression, I replied at lunchtime, but he didnt reply until after lunch today, titled "mortgage", where he makes a short reference to my email yesterday. I replied asking him what he thought we should do about the remortgage and also asking if he wants food or not tommorow..and again, no reply from him!

So, this is not looking promising. He was replying several times a day before. Now one a day. Despite his best mates W telling me he said he was unsure about his decision, that was 2 1/2 weeks ago now that he said that. Perhaps he has decided to stick with it. I am not getting a good feeling about the lack of contact from him, but at least he is coming over tommorow. Feel a bit stressed to be honest. I had a feeling things were coming to a head...and then he is away skiing, so I wonder what he will say to me? If he had emailed back today, I might not be feeling so nervous, but its hard not to be.

You are right about opening up to me..but I am not the first to know. His best mate knows (and also maybe his Mum, who he saw at the weekend and has a history of depression herself). Also, he saw his best mate, a female, who has a history of depression for years, especially after having children and my BF has supported her in the past. He said to me in the car home on Sunday that he had had a good talk with her last week..I said "really?" as it seemed very pointed..and he said, yes, a very good talk and looked me directly in the eye - I think they must have been discussing depression. At least things are better with her H now.

So I am maybe the last of his close friends to know! That makes me a bit sad..why couldnt he have come to me first? So.. all in all, I am not so sure this evening that I am his special girl. I think the lack of emails is worrying..but then, he could be feeling very foolish right now...I tried to tell him I thought he was depressed and he was adamant that he wasnt, he just DLYA and then he goes and admits he is been for years "as you know Al".. so it must be hard to face me perhaps?

Ali, I'm sure it was very hard for him to come and tell you. Whether you were the first to know or the last to know, he came and told you and that's great seeing not long ago there was NC. He's probably got alot on his mind right now and the depression doesn't help in the least, believe me. I'd think if he didn't care anymore, he'd cut off all ties (mortgage, post, etc) and wouldn't think twice.

(((((Ali)))))

After what he has learned, and what he has revealed in the past few days I would have been surprised if he didn't pull back! He has expended a lot of emotional energy. Be there for him, but don't pressure him right now. He has to come to terms to thing for himself right now. It's not about you, Ali!

Hey Jeff.. I know, this is a massive deal for him. I've known he had a melancholy side since I met him 12 years ago. Hes never been as bad as now though, or the past year, so it had got to the point that he should have been getting help sooner. I cant believe he just tried to block it al out and even finished with me to avoid looking at what was really bothering him. But I guess it takes guts (or hitting rock bottom) to really face your demons. And I am worried about that as I know some things that noone else does and I havent mentioned here and that he cant even talk to me about (although we have in the past). I do wonder if he can ever really resolve that stuff and whether it will mean it wont be possible for us to get back together. Seeing as he said he is going for counselling, I wondered if it is partly to do with that, or just the fact that he has been unhappy for years. Anyway, time will tell on that one I think.

That reminds me, I was lying awake this morning wondering what all this means for what we had had before...if he has been depressed for years, what has been the extent of his love for me, or was it all part of the neediness and unhappiness and avoidance stuff? Can you be in love and depressed at the same time? And now he is facing it, I am assuming that we would really have to start again, afresh. And no, it isnt about me or me and him, its all got to be about him for now!

Hmm. I am so worried about him, but I am glad hes going skiing after all (although worried he might break something!) and he will be getting counselling, AT LAST !!! I just reread the email he sent today..doesnt sound like he has any plans to sell our jiont home and he uses the word "we" which is a small thing, but he had been careful not to use it in months...

"These deals are essentiall total rubbish so it may be either to stay as we are (current repayments are �x) or got to the x% rate but it would take 14 months before we'd paid back the admin fee."

You see?? No plans to sell !! He sees it as "we" wouldnt break even on the second deal until we'd rented (presumably) for another 14 months.

I think thats a baby step?? (although he's already practically ran a 100m sprint by fessing up to me that he has depression!). As ever, we'll just have to see what tommorow brings.

Ali

Ali, please don't go there with your mind like that. Don't wonder if his love was true. It all was. It's not right for these MLCers right now but the past is what was right. I thought the same thing before and questioned everything for the past 13 years. Please don't do that to yourself.

You are going to force us to break out 2X4s and spankings soon!

He was chatty, now he's pulled back. It's the down swing of the cycle, it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Take a deep breath. Relax and see how tomorrow goes.

Did somebody say spankings?

Jeff, you are incorrigible! I better not add any more speculations if I'm in line for a thrashing and go get my beauty sleep instead. Tommorow is fast approaching (and Venus is moving into Pisces! Yay, therefore, I will wake up beautiful regardless! well, maybe!). I wonder if he will stay for dinner...?

Ali x

..damn! then I went and added a speculation on the end! :-)

I'm sure you will wake up beautiful! And probably over analysing, as well! I think I will have to plan a trip!

Jeff,

can I join you? I look away for 2 hours and there she goes again!!! I am glad Michelle and the rest of you guys were here to type some sense into this girl! (evreybody's favourite)...

Ali,
Let's see what Venus will bring us, I told you this weekend is going to be interesting and I had no idea about the planets...

XXXXXXXXXXx

K

Ah, Kalni. I am not into soft music for the most part, but you sure did hit upon one woman that melts me!!!

IMP