Although I keep getting "Squirrel!" as I track into other posts and threads along the way.
Originally Posted by TSquared2
Hopefully, you will have a "low energy" mlc'er, as Cadet has called it (check out Forever Young's thread) and you will skip that "stage"...
Quote
I've always planned for the future and planned well.
I hear ya!! I dragged myself kicking and screaming to the "live in the NOW" idea, it was so antithetical to my engineer self, but it was the only logical, sane path (ironically)...and I still have trouble with it, to be honest.
"low energy MLC" ... With all W told me last year ("G, I'm more than just X!", on various identities. "G, I didn't know my mission after retiring from military reserves.") before going dark and knowing her for almost 26 years ... I can see and notice the crisis indicators. And I know secrets. The inconsistencies. The forgetfulness. (last week she locked herself out of her RV for the 2nd or 3rd time this year) The changing plans. From the outside, if you didn't know her, you might think just a sad WAS.
I've always run the money/housing, etc.. with an eye to 5, 10, 20 year impacts. We had just about reached retirement investment goals of potential income and enough to present zero burden to children as we age.
"live in the NOW" trouble, "engineer self" logical, yep, yep, yep. I've been working hard this past year to make sure I am living RIGHT NOW (especially with the children every day) and always BE PRESENT by no multitasking and putting down/away any distractions while interacting with anyone.
Originally Posted by ForeverYoung
Originally Posted by Takevowsserious
I think no matter where we are at in our journey, it is hard to detach but still observe. To look for signs, but not have expectations.
I'm starting to believe we all detach as much as we need to, no more, no less... kinda go with the flow, just like a good fighter. Sure, we may miss a block or forget to duck occasionally and take a hit, but we come back smarter and stronger every time.
It took me until she moved herself out and I went dark before I would not be dragged by what I thought she felt. To feel the need to fix her hurt. To see her separately from me...being dragged around by her own emotions. Feeling empathy, because that is not a comfortable place to be.
Originally Posted by TSquared2
I like what Hopper said about conflict, and I think actually BOTH persons can be too giving and too selfish, I think W and I traded roles there depending on the issue.
In hindsight, this is where W and I were. Conflict avoiders? Sort of. Neither of us does conflict well or had it modeled with our parents. Mine never showed conflict to us kids. Hers...well, she was her mom's councilor for grievances against her dad from the age of 13 (but thought her dad was more reasonable). No anger, shouting, or any such thing. Just both of us pushing things aside because, "well, that is a small thing. why make it an issue? it's not important. it is not truly a NEED" Until suddenly with the OM trigger, all that build up was an issue.
Originally Posted by TSquared2
I found the tips for communication in my scrape and paste DB library...
Quote
Use "I" messages. For example, instead of saying, "You get me angry" say "I get angry when you do "X" ....
Avoid "always" or "nevers". These are adjectives that also invite hopelessness or a "why try" attitude because they communicate to your spouse that any positive attempts they have made have been totally overlooked and/or disregarded.
"Whys" can be heard as judgments or put-downs. "Why didn't you take out the garbage?" "Why do you always have to do it that way?" "Why can't you be nicer to me?" Can you sense the attacking mode?
More to the word list. The irony is I do this at work all the time. For many of the people I have supported over the years, I play a side role of editing their documents and emails for sanity and feel. Rephrasing to make clear and constructive communications but leave in the originator's voice. sigh
Originally Posted by TSquared2
Ya know, the rational, business side of me is just shaking it's head that this is even an issue, for an H to take over these duties...but the other side can understand her...she even has said, both verbally and via email, "I'm a SAHM, its my job, why can't I get into it and just do it?"...
Starting our life together, W said she wanted to be a SAHM and have six children. D19 was colicky for a solid 18 months. Right after birth, while in the recovery room, we could hear her SCREAM over all the other infants at the far end of the hall...for EVERY hour she was not asleep. Sensory issues and other troubles. D17 was somewhat less so, but still, another year of exhaustion. It was overwhelming to emotionally sensitive W, who said she felt like parking the car by the highway overpass, making sure kids were safe, and jumping off ... just to make it stop.
Household duties piled on top. Over time it turned out she liked parts of being a SAHM, but .... actually running a household felt stupid, redundant, and you never got anywhere with dishes, making the food, vacuuming, cleaning, or anything else for all your effort. So, things in the home piled up often. In theory, it was all her domain.
I would try to help, but often got resentment when I accomplished those duties after work. It was confusing to me as in my family growing up these acts of service were appreciated and thanked. It was normal. "W, I see you were busy with the kids all day so I did the dishes." "G, you make me feel incompetent when you do that"I haven't ever been able to resolve this dilemma.
D19, "momma left X all messy and dirty again dad." G, "I know D19, but she always gets upset with me when I fix it." D19, "well, that is her problem isn't it."
Originally Posted by TSquared2
I think the EA hurts more than PA as well, at least it does for me...the EA or a "real" relationship interest is where you feel them toss you out of their heart....imo.
I see she is doing the mental work, realizing what she has done and who it has affected and that she has run from so much and when will she stop? What if she throws all this away and STILL isn't happy? These are some of what she is sounding out with me.
This is true for me. I expressed this to W in that first month. "W, it would be better if you just wanted to f*k and get it out of your system." Snooping found - W thinks they had planned out the conditions under which they would both break their M for each other. W expressed later, "OM and I talked, what if we both ruined our M and then we didn't really work out? I have to try, he always knows exactly what I'm feeling." For a while I felt like I must be a terrible and incompetent man that my W could establish a "real relationship" until I had females tell me "G don't be stupid, no man alive is that magic. That is fantasy." Oh! Right! Reason returned.
Originally Posted by Starsky309
Stages of Remorse:
I do think your wife is in one of the early stages of remorse, but there are several stages. They'll go from "I'm sorry I got caught," to "I'm sorry for ME that I've messed myself up so much," to "I'm sorry for YOU that I hurt you (but I still don't see anything wrong with what I did)," to finally a more self-aware "I'm sorry for what I did because IT WAS THE WRONG THING TO DO, on so many levels. For me, for the pain I caused my husband, for the breaking of my vows, etc."
My W reached stage 2 last summer when OM didn't appear to be following through. "G, I know I'm responsible for the consequences of my own choices, BUT...." and then stage 3 of remorse late last fall sometime. "G, I'm sorry you got hurt in all this. I don't know what more you want from me." I haven't seen any further mental work. This doesn't mean it is or is not happening. She has always been very introspective.
And I've gone dark. At first to let her experience what she claimed to want. Then I realized later it was also for me, my peace, my recovery, and to be able to detach.
g
H:54 W:50 D19, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/2023 DB1 4/2023 DB1 rescinded 5/2023 DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024 Draft settlement 3/2024
My W reached stage 2 last summer when OM didn't appear to be following through. "G, I know I'm responsible for the consequences of my own choices, BUT...." and then stage 3 of remorse late last fall sometime. "G, I'm sorry you got hurt in all this. I don't know what more you want from me." I haven't seen any further mental work. This doesn't mean it is or is not happening. She has always been very introspective.
And I've gone dark. At first to let her experience what she claimed to want. Then I realized later it was also for me, my peace, my recovery, and to be able to detach.
I have gone through this as well, I got a few "I [censored] ups", along with "Noone is ever going to want me". To me these are signs of things not going as well as they expected and having some remorse. But the biggest problem with this is instead of swallowing their pride and admitting guilt and remorse and returning to the best thing they ever had,is them potentially grooming a new target to get that same feeling and starting the cycle all over again. I guess this is the part that makes or breaks any potential reconciliation and likely breaks the deal once and for all for most
Last edited by Catman19; 05/03/2401:54 PM. Reason: Quotation
This post should have been written months ago. Many reasons why not, some peculiar to me, many for the reasons often discussed here - fear, inertia, etc...
Why now? I’m not sure but to let it out perhaps. I tend to be very self-contained. Or maybe so others can read, just like I have been to others stories, and not feel alone like I did at first. I forget when I found this forum while googling for answers. Likely around DB2. The regulars through the years, the welcome post resources, Sandi’s rules, etc… have truly been a lifesaver to my heart and mind and soul as I read, synthesize, and internalize. Though I’m not the type to ever physically self-harm, I now understand, to the core of my being, exactly why men suicide. Alternatively, for me it was a possibility there would just be a shell left on this earth with my name, but “I” wouldn’t be present in any real sense.
Right now? making moving myself along the journey. I am a better man almost a year later. I will continue.
Gratitude, Grief, ... ... Bitter Ashes
Though still, almost a year later, every day at random times it feels like a mountain fell on me. I can't breathe, can't see, can't think, my hands shake, I feel flattened to nothingness and tears fall ... and then the world starts again. Talking with my father and his experiences with hurt and failure - he described it as the world goes black and you can see no way out of the darkness. Then eventually you see bits of light that offer hope for the future.
I deliberated on naming myself Grief or Gratitude or now Grok as I always seem to seek understanding before I can react or process. (from Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land") Now perhaps I will just be G, as I am all three at the same time. I hadn't ever understood that you could feel multiple opposing emotions like this.
I wondered where my anger was for a long time. W did ask me early on if I was angry and hated her. No, I find it difficult to hate, I am a calm and collected person by nature and don't anger easily. Perhaps a suppression from childhood when I figured out with my intellect and capacity, I could really wreak harm to all around if I did not stay controlled. I knew where my anger was residing after coming across this quote, for I can see all the wonderful branching futures closed off and deleted as she chooses divorce rather than healing a family, and that loss grieves me to the core of my soul. Anger resides in a WTF of grief for me.
“I sat with my anger long enough until she told me her real name was grief.” ― C.S. Lewis
Nov 2022 – W: H, we have to talk. I’m not feeling “in love” the way we should be and used to. I feel attracted and a connection to a man at S12’s athletics (also one of D18's bosses at her work). G: Always rational me - OK W, this is troubling but seems part of the normal troubles in marriages by the 20 year mark. The burdens of life leave not enough US connection time and all of us will eventually come across people we connect with during life. What shall we do about it? I’m at a loss since you schedule the family busy for 6.5 days of the week and have given you all excess budget and it is all spent, admittedly on good things. … tears as I felt helpless on what to do with beloved who is obviously unhappy. In retrospect, I was not very knowledgeable on female communication patterns and male / female dynamics.
Christmas 2022 - Travel to see her family and my family in other states. Because of pet care etc..., me + kids for ~ a week at my parents and then fly her in for a combined ~ a week at her family. W seems grumpy and irritated. W doesn't seem to want to be close. I don't understand. But I am patient and await when she can say. I saw, but didn't understand the effect of seeing her parents bicker. One of several MLC triggers.
End of March 2023 - The night of infamy. PTSD generator. In house separation begins. ILYBINILWY
W: We have to separate. I have feelings for another man. We haven't been maintaining our relationship and I feel like roommates. My heart is hard and I don't think you can reach me anymore. My feelings are REAL!! G: I can't sleep at all. Up at before dawn, go walking in a local preserve. She is suddenly so cold, walled off, and dressing as such. Pray, write, think, in shock... come home after walking around until evening. Awake for ~40 hours. DB1, Day after Easter, April 2023 - W: I want a divorce. "I have to burn it all down and start over." I thought it would be not right to do this on Easter. G: I don't and don't agree with any of this in dealing with our problems. I will not deny you agency in any way however and will not obstruct you.
DB1 rescinded, May 2023 - Still in a tail spin, trying to orient and right myself. I had found a web site/guy who had a program to help men in separations. It was very helpful in focusing me on what I can control along with dos and don’ts that align with DB principles. I thought for a while this is what I was dealing with, a WAW, since that was how W described herself. I had been posting a song daily to FB representing something I felt meaningful to me. I had kept it mostly about me and not blame or provoking anger. Almost no one else knew at this point. This day though I was cranky and publicly posted a song link and lyrics on the way to work:
Watching the mistakes go down Something inspires the things I do yeah
You left me here face down Spilling blood on the higher ground
I get a call just before passing through vehicle entry security on the way to work. W: What are you doing? Our parents don't even know. I'll take it back. I'll not divorce you. G: Um, What?! We'll talk about this later. After a few weeks she demands her own place to live, but no divorce. I agree in the interests of giving time and space.
At the same time, finding out more about OM, both what she is telling me and yes, snooping. Crazy enough, I was just about the person she felt she could tell about what she was doing and experiencing! The experts here are right about snooping. Generally don't do it. The pain of seeing that dialog about me and our life distorted to someone else.... It did clarify what she was NOT telling me. She never directly lied though.
OM is - - Married for 5 years - Has a 2 yr old and a newborn now - Is one of D18's bosses (for swim lessons she teaches) - Is part of what was S12's sports (swim) - They had constructed plans of how to leave their families - W refused a PA, but doesn't believe an EA is a real thing, though in the middle of one. - OM did something with her phone so he can see the messages when she texts herself. OM replies by modifying her Spotify playlists, anon replies on social media platforms, etc... trying to be hidden and non-attributable. She accepts this as well and good so OM can see how genuine she is... W: "Oh, he's just protecting his family" WTF?! He's wonderful for putting all risk on you? From my line of work, I know you cannot hide this from even a limited forensic analysis. Four separate acquaintances, including IC and ex-FBI agent, independently described this as a control mechanism.
DB2 6/2023 - In the process of taking a hard look at myself and her accusations and hurts (I was still taking them very literally at this point. I have had so much trust in her judgements and opinions, it is very difficult to detach and look from outside.) I told the pastor of my church I needed help. I went to meet him and told him little of the things W had said to me, but that I needed to renew myself as I was in a rut and in trouble. After the meeting I walk out into the parking lot to find W parked there also.
W: What are you doing here?! G: Well, I considered what you said and decided I will work on my spiritual aspects as I have been slacking for some years. W: What did you tell him about me?! G: Very little, but some since this crisis is revolving around you. My conversation with him was focused on me and where I'm at. I can do something about me and he will help. W: Oh! OM told me not to be mad when I came over here. G: Um, right. Lets talk about this... After a long conversation about us, W devolves into talking about OM's wonderful qualities, realizes what she is doing. W: Oh G! I can't do this anymore. I love HIM! W: I will be the villain to everyone. The children will take your side and won't understand. My brother will never speak to me again. My parents like you, not me. No church in their right mind will accept what I am doing. I HAVE to do it like crossing the invisible bridge by Indiana Jones for the Holy Grail.
Weeks later - It really sinks in I have a WW, not just a WAW. The EA has given her the out for the WAW feelings she had. I wonder if she really wanted me to be the bad guy and reject her/divorce her to give her the freedom she believes she wants. The Christian values we had shared would not allow divorce for the reasons she has given so far. Repair of relationships would be demanded. M suicide by EA?
G: I am not your enemy. Don't let this be a legal fight and the state determine outcomes. I give zero support to divorce, but I will not block you. I will not restrict your access or contact to our children.
Mediation 1 8/2023 - Mediator: W, you are still living in the same home?! WW: Yes Mediator: G, do you feel comfortable with this?! G: No. (this was a reply on gut instinct and not thought out) Afterwards I told W directly, "Any complaints you have directly with me are fine. I will take them and you may stay here. But you have brough another man into MY HOME even virtually. That is incredibly disrespectful and I am not OK with it."
Vacation 9/2023 - As my workplace is transitioning support contracts, I must take my accumulated leave or will lose all leave. Instead of the annual trips to see family around Christmas, I take the three kids and me to the other side of the USA to see my family for about two weeks. WW drops us off at the airport and unexpectedly gave me a hug. First contact since separation. She feels thin. Has lost a ton of weight. She had been trying to shed it for 10+ years without success until now. The "why now" bugs me. I feel odd and don't know what to make of it. Try to keep to my no expectations and attach no meaning. Adventures galore with parents and hang with my two sisters who have been my touchstone rocks while I work through this. I don't message or contact WW. Head feels more clear.
After return, each day, I post on FB pictures and the adventure we had with my family. This is the first time WW can see what we were doing. I discover the home in some disarray with dog poop on the floor where she didn't bother to clean it up. She asks me to take a drive with her before the next mediation session.
WW: G, you know I've been feeling in a bad place. If I wasn't around anymore everyone wouldn't feel so bad. Not that I would ever do that. Everyone’s emotions are too much for me. G: That sounds very hard.
I check bills and credit cards and discover WW spent an $7,000+ more than normal in little chunks all over the place. I ask for joint cards back and take her off bank accounts. I pull from emergency accounts to pay overages. WW: Fine. It's time anyway.
She moves out 10/2023 - WW: unexpectedly via text "G, I'm staying at the local state campground X in a tent until I find a place to live. I'll come back during the day to see the kids" G: "you will do as you chose. sleep well, and stay safe"
She finds a place 11/2023 WW has been texting me properties and land for many months now. Never a clear direction. Wobbling all over the place. I had promised early on to pull from investment accounts to pay for any affordable place. The cost would come from her side of any settlement. She figures out finally she has no job so can get no loan. To be clear, she has a masters degree, is working on a second masters degree and could make as much as me if she chose that life style. I'm not helping as I said early on "if you chose this, I will not be some sort of half-husband to you." Finally, without warning...
WW: G, I need $20,000 on this property three days from now. I decided on this Fifth Wheel RV with only $600/month lot rent as my temporary housing. It even has a shed. Yay! G: Um, $20k completed wire transfer in three days?! We don't keep that kind of cash around. Typically, 3 days to sell some investment and another 3 days to transfer funds if you are lucky. Let me think. WW: Oh, I didn't think about how it would work. I might lose me $3,000 deposit! That is my foolishness (hands shaking). I don't have any money left. I spent the $8,000 my parents left me. No one is giving me dog walking jobs on Rover like they claim! I did get it done by taping a home equity line of credit I had established.
Thanksgiving 2023 - The kids and I whip up a great feast. We plan and cook together. We are starting to bond as our own unit. At the end of the prep S12 says "when is mommy going to come? I asked her and she said it is up to you daddy." I hadn't said a thing to WW.
G: S12, tell your mom she is welcome at XX o'clock
I do this for my children. I was calm and respectful. I asked the blessings on all of us as we need it and gave thanks for all the good things in our lives. I went for a walk by myself later to feel crushed and shake for an hour.
Christmas 2023 Her parents come out to our state in their RV. They visit and help her some. They refuse to give what she thought was her inheritance money. Her RV need work as I don't think she had a good inspection done as I suggested she do. She continues to intermittently come over most weekdays to be with kids as I had agreed to. First snoop in a long time finds "I am going over weekdays to make sure the kids don't feel like I abandoned them." Her parents and I get along well and they come over many days to visit with kids and me, play games, etc... Whenever they propose an event with WW also, I have plans. We all go out together to a hibachi grill once before they leave in Jan (WW included). Her and her parents had Christmas Eve at their RV with the children. I had Christmas morning and day with my children. It was a good day. I had enjoyed taking each one on trips to buy the gifts for each other and select “Santa” gifts for each other.
January 2024 Now? Routines with running a household and three kids alone takes a lot more out of me. I have discarded most entertainment habits I use to have, and it is to my and the children’s benefit. WW comes over most weekdays while I am gone for between 1 - 5 hrs to educate and visit D17 and S12 as we have homeschooled always. This put a real wrinkle in our futures, but I agreed for it to continue as it has been very good for the children. WW doesn't seem to do anything besides scroll social media on her phone/laptop or work some kids education while she is there. I suspect looking for secret OM contact or emotional fix. I installed a doorbell cam and a couple indoor cams to check up on kids since I am not there and she is often not either. I think that made her mad several times. Now I just am bemused at her occasional upset. I’ve had some of the NG habits that I am shedding slowly.
More to the back story and future story to come in other posts.
H:54 W:50 D18, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/2023 DB1 4/2023 DB1 rescinded (WW: "I know it's wrong") 5/2023 DB2 (WW: "I can't do this, I Love HIM") 6/2023 G: I am not your enemy. Don't let this be a legal fight and the state determine outcomes. Legal Mediation 1-4 8/2023 – 2/2024 Draft settlement 3/2024
I understand this is a very complex and heartbreaking situation. I feel deeply for you and your children, and the whole family going through this. It is undoubtedly a very difficult and challenging circumstance, and I'm sure you are experiencing a lot of conflicting emotions.
I can see that you have made tremendous efforts to preserve your marriage and family, while your wife is making some very tough and painful decisions. This is an extremely hard situation to handle, but I think you have been managing it remarkably well, with patience, rationality and care for your children.
I hope with the support of your family, friends and professionals, you will be able to navigate through these challenges and find the right path forward for yourself and your kids. While divorce is always a difficult decision, it's important that you keep the best interests of your children as the top priority. Please continue to persevere, and I hope that one day you and your wife may find a way to reconcile, or at least co-parent effectively.
I will always be here to listen and support you throughout this journey. Please feel free to share more if you ever need advice or just a listening ear. I wish you and your family strength and the ability to overcome these difficulties.
D17, "Dad, take me to the store to get more shorts like the ones I found last week. Oh, and you said we could get more popsicles and I want to do something outside." G, "OK, lets go in an hour. And yes, we do need to be outside for a while. S12, you are coming too.” He groans, but accepts a bribe of popsicles.
After getting popsicles (box x12 = 4 each), shorts, bird treats and misc., we headed over to a local nature preserve. I had noted months ago a table on the shore of a small lake a 5 minute walk from the entrance. Of course we ate one each on the drive over. Of course since it was hot we ate one each on the walk to the table. No one else there and a pretty view. Hot with a slight breeze and a little shade. Popsicles 3 and 4 each were promptly devoured. We noted they were small…shrinkflation taking its toll.
D17 wanted to talk about the kittens at the pet store a few weeks ago. They were cute but I said NO. Span of control for me is limited for now with our current arrangement.
D17, “S12 you should have been there to tell daddy to get them. Although the dogs might be a problem.” G, “I’m not sure… a swipe of claws to the nose keeps the dog away…” D17, “True, True.” D17, “Well, I think I’ll want six kids, thee goats, three dogs, chickens, cats, um… and some more.” S12, “What! You won’t be able to do all that. It’s too much D17.” D17, “no, you just have to work hard and not be lazy!" D17, “ I mean Daddy is taking care of and parenting three kids and like ten pets. It just takes work.” And on they talked about number of children, creatures, and property sizes needed.
O Huh. No mention of Mommy in there. I said nothing and kept practicing my STFU skills. Don’t know quite what it means. It just stuck in my head.
D17, “Daddy, what is this new item on your calendar? “Parenting” This was the mandatory parenting class required for divorces. G, “Hmmmm. That is a class because the state makes single parents take a class in being a parent.” D17, “That’s stupid. Why would that make you a worse parent.”
g
H:54 W:50 D19, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/2023 DB1 4/2023 DB1 rescinded 5/2023 DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024 Draft settlement 3/2024
Glad u have your kids to keep you busy, which I'm sure helps keep your mind off the situation. You're a good dad.
My boys are grown and have their own lives. Even though I miss them being young I'm glad they are out of the house and not having to deal with H's MLC. God only knows what we would have done if this would have happened when they were younger/still living at home. I'm sure we would have been fine.
I got this same direction from my sister today. I gave her a facetime call while going on a mountain bike ride...not that there is any mountains in my state...LOL. There are local volunteer maintained trails in my area where there was surface mining long ago. Now there is heavy vegetation and single track trails. 13.26 miles averaging 9.3 mph today. A little slower because I spent the first half on that facetime call. Steaming my view of the trail flashing by to her in their NZ home.
I told her I have ... calibrated? amounts time for myself. The kids want my attention endlessly and they are a priority. I try to spend some individual time each and some group activities each week. They seem to hold no unhappiness about me saying "No, I'm going out to do X now." "OK Dad, have fun." I take time for bike rides. I take Tuesday evenings to go to trivia night at the local brewery. I try to read a lot.
D19 said, "What are you going to do next Dad?" I don't know, maybe I should try learning piano. The one sitting in my house hasn't been used in years.
Lessons from D19 in attraction
Off to the store Sunday afternoon to pick up supplies for the week. Sam's Club this time and D19 volunteered to go with me when D17 and S12 didn't want to go. I always stop by the clothing section since the prices are good. D19 cackles with glee when I say I need to find more decent shirts for work.
D19, "Oooooo, I get to pick!" G, "OK, D19, settle down. I still have to look professional."
I pick up a blue shirt, a good color for me, and get "Boooring. Try this one." And she selects a purple button up shirt with little white leaf pattern. I don't think I've ever considered purple my color. It is a good looking shirt. She holds it up to my arm and face while nodding enthusiastically. In the basket it goes. Next we go around to the swim trunks. She skips over the plain colors and grabs one with bright wide stripes.
D19, "This one Dad. It's fun and you'll look good in it." G, "So D19, what you are saying is "Don't be boring"? " D19, "Yep"
TSquared2 Cont...
Originally Posted by TSquared2
BD #3 Her whole body is telling her that she is done with us, as much as it hurts her. She HAS to do this.
"G, I HAVE to burn it all down to the ground and start over."
They are driven and oh so certain. I wanted to cry out, "But I'm INSIDE what you are burning down!" Instead, I STFU and just listened. And turned to ash as the me that was, burned alive.
Originally Posted by TSquared2
Seems her new girlfriends are supportive from what she said.
"G, I talked to T and to S and ... They all agreed about you. They weren't so sure about OM though."
Yes, though in my case it is not new friends. It was divorced friends of hers. I don't believe she has any older solidly married ladies as friends to talk to. No advisors on that end of the spectrum. Perhaps ladies can fill me in here. It seems to also be an aspect of female group think. i.e. follow the herd tendencies. Or/and? is this an aspect of female competition where advice is given that brings the competition down? I've seen both talked about in discussions on female dynamics.
The things they say
At DB1... "G, my friends said the basic form is easy. We could go down to the court next week or the week after. I mean, I heard guys need release by the end of two weeks."
Three children, 20 years of multiple investment strategies, a house and a rental house in another state, auto loans, and ... next week? Also, guys and two weeks? W has and undergraduate degree in biology.
g
Last edited by grok; 05/07/2404:10 AM.
H:54 W:50 D19, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/2023 DB1 4/2023 DB1 rescinded 5/2023 DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024 Draft settlement 3/2024
Most female divorce advice is usually grounded on 0 legal basis. I've heard the dumbest stories of women demanding things lawyers would laugh at because their friends who also know nothing want some drama to talk about. It's like they are part of a reality TV show and their feelings are actionable demands and requests and their advice is to create the most chaos. And in terms of life advice women give the worst life advice to each other, it's never for the good of the person they are advising, because if the crap hits the fan those friends will distance themselves when the person makes a bad choice and needs to talk about it. Contrast that to male friends and most guys going through this seek people who went through it or married friends for good advice to help fix things or to help with how to deal with the inner turmoil.
In my case she was getting advice the most from a divorced friend who cheated on her husband, is dating a married man and hopes on taking his last name in marriage even though he likes the arrangement he has now. She told her things that I heard in audio recordings that stbxw regurgitated like a ventriloquist dummy. Her other friends all either ended their marriages for stupid reasons or are single promiscuous no hope women.
They will seek advice from people who portray being happy even though they aren't and disregard people in successful marriages because they want to feel good and enjoy fun. The successful marriage advisors tell them it's hard work, and for rebellious waywards they hear fun and run in that direction and ignore the taking accountability/working on marriage crowd and see them as old fashioned or boring.
Please let me know if you have not received notice of this or have a conflict that day. Thank you!
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
From: Attorney/Mediator Date: May 6, 2024
Please review the details below for your upcoming appointment.
When: Mon 13 May, 2024 Service: FINAL MEDIATION SESSION
Each time my soul is torn a little more. Time to write up those minor changes a L recommended. i.e. make the limited alimony non-changeable. Revisit access to the home on a yearly basis.
and the personal changes i.e. Whereas M is irretrievably broken -> Whereas W believes M is irretrievably broken. H does not agree or disagree but believes the future is unwriten. H leaves W to her
choice in men? affair? agency? Hmmmm... avoid snark and mean. Disagree and leave the future to be what we make it.
From a relationship advisor on X today:
Quote
Women today believe they deserve more than they actually do. Most are living in fantasy land. That’s why they…
Don’t marry Get divorced End up cheating
Staying Single: “I can find a guy that meets X, Y, Z (unrealistic standards) so I’m not going to get married.”
Divorce: “I deserve a guy that does X, Y or Z, my man doesn't, time to divorce.”
Cheating: “My man doesn't do X, Y, Z to make me feel loved so I’ll find a guy that does.”
They’re unwilling to accept reality so a life long relationship will never be possible.
G, " is my wife's answer to her unhappiness right now"
Advisor, "That’s not the answers to her problems, it will only add to them 😔"
g
H:54 W:50 D19, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/2023 DB1 4/2023 DB1 rescinded 5/2023 DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024 Draft settlement 3/2024
Western media and education system has created the self esteem movement, we are noe reaping the damage of it as these formerly could do no wrong children have become adults but adults only in age but maturity has been left behind. I read somewhere that bankers were doing a study where they are projecting by 2030 50% of women will be single and childless. And because the waywards and immature mlcs cannot ever take accountability or responsibility and rely on bitterness and resentment to carry them through i dont see any turnaround.
Mine has seemed to double down and refined her narcississtic traits and learned how to manipulate better, it nonlonger works on me of course but as long as there are men that fall for the trap they will feel no need to change, add in an enabler or 2 and they feel validated in their decisions.
