My Story

[Ready2Change]

Changing my own behavior was extremely hard. Getting posters here to change their behavior is even harder. Changing others behavior is almost impossible.

W has outside influences.

She has been in IC for a while. Not with a marriage counselor specifically, although I am sure she is discussing that nowadays. Thus, I suspect said counselor is probably reinforcing her decision to leave the marriage rather than exploring alternatives. (By the way, I caught criticism when she first started going because I didn't inquire as to the specific reasons. Our son had been in IC for a while over different matters, and W said she was just going for her own personal improvement. I left it at that, which ultimately angered her since I didn't probe further).

The potentially scary factor: she is consulting psychics.

This is nothing new for her. Her and mother used to go from time to time. I considered it harmless. She has long known my feelings on this stuff (that it's all [censored]). But she and her mother believe in it completely.

It's really reassuring that the fate of our marriage may hang partially on what these people are telling her. /s

Your post is focused on the wrong person. Look internal. Change the one person you have control of. Change the way you interact with her, and the relationship is forced to change.

She should no longer have any control over you. You lead. You make logical decisions and then behave accordingly. Do not let your emotions control you.

[Terapin]

My position is that this can be turned around, with counseling, frank discussions, and reorganized priorities.

We all believe that when we arrive here. The problem is we are already passed the point where that may have been an option for our spouse.

After BD, a different approach needs to happen. These are all the DBing tools.

Talking never works. She needs to miss you. She needs to FEEL attraction to you. Most of our behaviors do not increase attraction while married. Women are much more complicated than us men. That is why I push newbies to dig deep into improving their understanding of attraction and seduction. Change as many behaviors as you want. Drop the unattractive traits. Start adding new attractive ways of behaving. The big issue is identify the traits you need to add or subtract.

I behave significantly different with my lady than I did with my X. All this from the wisdom I have gained since the bomb drop.


When(if) you get to piecing, you will be able to get counseling, frank discussions and reorganized priorities into place.

Until you get to piecing, you DB. You embrace this part of the process. You focus on you and your personal growth. You be the best dad. You set her free. You don't attempt to control, but rather influence.

Not to hijack this thread, and I know we discussed this before. But in my opinion it's a lot easier to attract a new person than it is to rekindle attraction with someone you've been with for a long time. You say you behave different with your new lady. Do you think when you were BD'd, if you acted like you do now, your ex would have regained attraction to you? I agree with you on everything. Just wondering your thoughts about how difficult it is to regain attraction from someone that knows you better than anyone else.

Like, if I used techniques from Neil Straus, Mystery, David Deangelo, etc on a stranger, I'd probably have success. If I did them on my W, she'd probably laugh in my face. I realize this isn't exactly what you're talking about, but if you could go back in time w/ your ex, how would your behavior change knowing what you know now, and do you think it would work?

[Ready2Change]

But in my opinion it's a lot easier to attract a new person than it is to rekindle attraction with someone you've been with for a long time.

For most of us I believe that is true. For other posters, I have seen the spouse respond positively. Coach and PuppyDogTails stand out. They both did a great job and making significant changes quickly.

You say you behave different with your new lady. Do you think when you were BD'd, if you acted like you do now, your ex would have regained attraction to you?

Maybe if I would have changed a few years before the bomb drop.

Just wondering your thoughts about how difficult it is to regain attraction from someone that knows you better than anyone else.

I just know people here have done it. Each of us have different sitch, but a lot of similar behaviors got us to the BD.

Like, if I used techniques from Neil Straus, Mystery, David Deangelo, etc on a stranger, I'd probably have success.

Yes, much easier on a stranger. Having a long term relationship is the challenge.

If I did them on my W, she'd probably laugh in my face.

I see it more as indirect attraction. Social proof. In my case, I interacted with my X more like I would with my guy friends if that makes sense. With my current partner, I treat her different. I am more protective, romantic, leading..more masculine behaviors...etc.

I realize this isn't exactly what you're talking about, but if you could go back in time w/ your ex, how would your behavior change knowing what you know now, and do you think it would work?

If I went back far enough, I am sure we could have addressed the issues. I am sure she would have been open to it.

I would have been more protective of the relationship. OM is spending more time with W was a big red flag that I was ignorant of. Not having date night. The list goes on and on.

[Kind18]

Changing my own behavior was extremely hard. Getting posters here to change their behavior is even harder. Changing others behavior is almost impossible.

W has outside influences.

She has been in IC for a while. Not with a marriage counselor specifically, although I am sure she is discussing that nowadays. Thus, I suspect said counselor is probably reinforcing her decision to leave the marriage rather than exploring alternatives. (By the way, I caught criticism when she first started going because I didn't inquire as to the specific reasons. Our son had been in IC for a while over different matters, and W said she was just going for her own personal improvement. I left it at that, which ultimately angered her since I didn't probe further).

The potentially scary factor: she is consulting psychics.

This is nothing new for her. Her and mother used to go from time to time. I considered it harmless. She has long known my feelings on this stuff (that it's all [censored]). But she and her mother believe in it completely.

It's really reassuring that the fate of our marriage may hang partially on what these people are telling her. /s

Your post is focused on the wrong person. Look internal. Change the one person you have control of. Change the way you interact with her, and the relationship is forced to change.

She should no longer have any control over you. You lead. You make logical decisions and then behave accordingly. Do not let your emotions control you.

100% this. Read R2C’s advice over and over.

[Rockon]

I can relate very much to what R2C is saying. If I had made the necessary changes years before BD, things would be way different.

[Spiral]

Rockon,

We should all strive to make changes for ourselves to improve our lives post-BD. And each of us should have made the necessary changes years before BD. But if we had made the changes things "might have" been way different in our marriages. Or they might not. However, that doesn't matter now. Everyone needs to make changes so that their lives improve. If you put in the work, you will be happier a couple of years from now. I am doing much better now than I was the day before BD.

The part that R2C wrote that I would read over is: "Your post is focused on the wrong person."

Spiral

[Sunflyer]

W approached me this morning to have a talk. Long talk, so I can only distill the gist of it here. May have gone into some areas that it shouldn't have, but the tone was calm and quiet the whole time, no shouting or arguing.

W: I have been thinking, and I know this is not what you want to hear, but I believe it is best if we separate.

H: I know that some of my behavior must have been very hurtful to you, and I am deeply sorry for that. But I am not sure if this is the best path to take. I think we owe it to ourselves and our boys to explore all options. I am not, of course, saying to stay together for the sake of the boys.

W: I do not think you are really engaged with the boys. They love and respect you, but sometimes I feel like a single parent. Also, I think we have changed, both of us. People are never the same after this long. I am not up for trying to make things "better." I have felt this way for a long time. I can't do it. I'm not happy. Please don't think I am blaming you for all of this. I know I have a part in it as well.

H: Did you ever think, early on, of mentioning these things when they became an issue?

W: I did, but I thought things would get better. I thought perhaps, things weren't so bad and that I could go on. Please don't think I am not going through pain over this. I am going through a lot of pain.

H: Do you think you will be happy if we separate? Or simply less unhappy than you are now?

W: I don't know. I don't really have an answer to that.

H: How do you see your personal and professional life, post-separation?

W: Well, I like what I am doing with the business. My job is stressful, but it is always stressful. What do you mean by "personal life?"

H: Another relationship? No relationship? (Kind of fishing for hints of an A here, without asking her directly if there is someone else).

W: I don't know. I haven't really thought about that at all.

H: I would like some time to process this.

She indicated that she recently told her parents, and that they have given her the money for a retainer.

She wants to go through mediation. Says that she doesn't want us to be at each other's throats. Says that we have never lived that way and that she wouldn't want the boys to see that.

Yesterday there was a combined 70th birthday party and 50th anniversary party for her mother and aunt. (They are twins and got married in a double wedding). Her parents gave no hint of knowing what was going on, but of course they knew by then.

I did get suspicious a couple of times. When we took family pictures, FIL gave me a double tap on the shoulder as if to reassure me of something. And I overheard him say toward the end that this might be one of the last times we were all together. (He could also have been referring to his mother, who is in her 90s and can barely walk at this point).

[Sunflyer]

Quick follow up: I was just about to call my sister to talk about this. (I have said nothing about it to her). W said she wanted to go out for a while.

Opened up my phone and according to the tracking app, W has beat me to the punch, as she's already over there.

[DnJ]

Good Morning SF

It’s time to back off with W. Way off! Lots of time and space. Look up last resort technique (LRT) in DR for ideas of how to implement that. W has stated in pretty certain terms that she wants to be separated, she’s even arranged/asked for a loan from her parents for the lawyer retainer.

I know this is going to feel odd, feel counterintuitive: Any pressure or rational discussion/reasons to stick together will only push her out the door faster. She needs to feel what it’s like to be separated, and then realize that separation isn’t the answer to her unhappiness.

You cannot do that for her. You didn’t break her, therefore you cannot fix her. She’s on her path, and on her timeline.

You only can control you.

Get your own lawyer. Discuss your situation with them.

I’d not go the mediator route. I’d use lawyers. Lawyers ensure each party is protected and understands the legality of what they are signing.

If W is after an amicable split, like her proposed usage of a mediator suggests, a separation agreement should be straightforward. You two can basically self mediate/resolve/sort things out. Or you can’t. If it’s the latter, and I mean seriously the latter (cannot/will not agree), then lawyers will be required anyhow.

This is the business side of your situation. And will likely be the biggest decision of your life (custody, finances, pensions, house, and so on). Ensure you are making it wisely. Have legal counsel.

Let W own this decision. Let her lead. You, and your L, respond to what she proposes.

For your piece of mind, and to start letting W feel what it’s like to be separated, turn off the tracking on her. Spying just keeps one attached. Best to cleave that from your life.

Really focus on you and the kids. W is firing you as husband. Do not be her backup plan, nor her support person. Let her do for herself. You cannot woo her back with flowers and such. In fact, you know where that kind of behaviour will lead you. So, you take a different path forward. Time and space. Focus on you. GAL. And maybe, she awakens. Or maybe not. Yet, either way, you will be ok.

This is not the end. Just a bump in the road.

D

[Ready2Change]

My 2 Cents:

W: I have been thinking, and I know this is not what you want to hear, but I believe it is best if we separate.

You have heard her. Now you support her. You ask her how soon she can move out and what you can do to help.

W....but sometimes I feel like a single parent..

Might be a red flag for you. My X pulled this BS on me. I was more involved than she was. Step up your parenting game. I assume you want 50/50 if you split. Until you have a written parenting agreement in place, be involved more than 50% of the time. Let her go out on Friday nights, Saturday nights etc. Have fun cooking dinner with the kids and watch movies or whatever is age appropriate. Take all the kids out (diner or movies or whatever) during the weekdays and leave mom at home to do whatever she wants.

I am not up for trying to make things "better." I have felt this way for a long time. I can't do it. I'm not happy.

Confidently accept your current reality. Project to her that you will be happy without her.

H: Did you ever think....Do you think......How do you.... Another relationship?...No relationship?

Those should be your last questions. You may slip. but now is the time to stop.

H: I would like some time to process this.

Best response ever.

She wants to go through mediation

You do not need mediation until you disagree on something. Take this time to clarify what you would like to see. Wait for her to make the first proposal. Get legal advise.

Do some research on mediators, find 3 you like and send her the list. ask her to pick one. Let her know if she doesn't like any of yours, to find 3 others that she likes and you will take a look at them. Do this before she initiates anything else. I strongly suggest in the next few days.

She wouldn't want the boys to see that.

Use this to your advantage.