Glutton for punishment

[DonH]

I don’t at all disagree. OTOH sone guys need to be kick started before they can run full blast. All I’m saying is it’s possible if you just suggest meeting he may pick up the ball and run with it full blast. Of course he may not in which case I’m back to totally agreeing you should pass him by. Taking one little step is not going all the work. It’s just something to consider. Don’t overcorrect too far. Don’t go from doing too much in an R to doing too little. Not saying you are just saying not to.

[Ginger1]

2 out of the 3 men i have loved in my life told me they loved me on valentines day. one was my ex who took TWO WHOLE YEARS to say it. and he said his first i love you in the valentines card he gave me. the other also said those words foe the first time in the valentines card he gave me.

the other guy i loved pretended like valentines day didnt exist when we were on vacation with our kids. we got in a big fight that night. i knew our relationship was over. on my last valentines day with ex, i knew it was over too. a month and a day later he left me. i eventually found the phine call on our bill to her that night when we took 2 separate cars home after out awkward date ( i picked up our 5 month old D)

this is a stupid commercial holiday. bit unfortunately, the beginnings to love and the end to loves happened on this day.

anyways i took the kid to the orthodontist. we got pedicures and she was pretty talkative with me today. so it was a good day.

i also got my eyebrow microblading done yesterday. i did something special for me. that person became my new best friend and we are going to hang out, lol, and she has a guy she wants to hook me up with.

oh and yeah. that last guy ghosted me. had an off feeling about him and of course, my gut is always right

[kml]

I think you and I might be the same in this regard, G - I realize I never made my ex step up to the plate in regards to Valentine's day. I accepted too little, even in the years when things were good between us.

The only person who really made an effort on Valentine's day for me was crazy ex-BF, who snuck into my bedroom in the middle of the night and left the room full of helium balloons. It was a sweet gesture, ruined later by finding out he did the same for the other woman he was seeing on the side at the same time that I didn't know anything about lol.

I'm not saying guys have to read our minds , or spend a fortune. But if the relationship is serious, they should make an effort. I'm thinking of some friends of mine - a couple in their 40's, they have a local punk rock band that they play in together (plus real day jobs). They've been married for a long time, at least 15 years I'd say. Geeky techie types. He always does sweet things for her for Valentine's and for their anniversary. This year she posted a picture of the helium balloons, silly stuffed animal, roses and girl scout cookies he got her. It's never JUST the standard stuff - although the balloons, flowers and stuffed animal are pretty standard - but then adds something that shows he really knows what she likes, like in this case the cookies. He'll buy her favorite candies, movies he knows she likes - simple stuff but I'm always impressed that he's thoughtful and giving her what he knows SHE wants.

You deserve a man who doesn't begrudgingly finally say the L word because it's Valentine's day after 2 years. You deserve a man who wants to woo you, who thinks you're special, and who puts some thought and effort into making you feel special. I hope that comes to you. But I think you, (like I should have done) , need to set a higher bar.

[BL42]

Ginger1,

2 out of the 3 men i have loved in my life told me they loved me on valentines day. one was my ex who took TWO WHOLE YEARS to say it. and he said his first i love you in the valentines card he gave me. the other also said those words foe the first time in the valentines card he gave me.

You deserve a man who doesn't begrudgingly finally say the L word because it's Valentine's day after 2 years. You deserve a man who wants to woo you, who thinks you're special, and who puts some thought and effort into making you feel special. I hope that comes to you. But I think you, (like I should have done) , need to set a higher bar.

I completely agree w/kml. It shouldn't have to be forced after two years due to a calendar holiday. You deserve better.

anyways i took the kid to the orthodontist. we got pedicures and she was pretty talkative with me today. so it was a good day.

So nice when our kids open up, isn't it? Even though mine are younger I love when they go into the details about something that excited them at school as opposed to "nothing!".

oh and yeah. that last guy ghosted me. had an off feeling about him and of course, my gut is always right

Sorry he ghosted you. That must be frustrating. Completely agree with the gut being right though...so often we can sense these things.

The only person who really made an effort on Valentine's day for me was crazy ex-BF, who snuck into my bedroom in the middle of the night and left the room full of helium balloons. It was a sweet gesture, ruined later by finding out he did the same for the other woman he was seeing on the side at the same time that I didn't know anything about lol.

"Snuck into my bedroom in the middle of the night". They say the difference between romance and stalking is the other person's perspective! Haha

Smooth move though...I'll keep that in mind for the future, though with just one woman not two LOL

It's never JUST the standard stuff - although the balloons, flowers and stuffed animal are pretty standard - but then adds something that shows he really knows what she likes, like in this case the cookies. He'll buy her favorite candies, movies he knows she likes - simple stuff but I'm always impressed that he's thoughtful and giving her what he knows SHE wants.

This is great. I'm not one for doing boiler plate gifts just to get "something" for a forced occasion, but love gifting when I come up with a really unique special idea for a person.

[MLCxH]

The only person who really made an effort on Valentine's day for me was crazy ex-BF, who snuck into my bedroom in the middle of the night and left the room full of helium balloons. It was a sweet gesture, ruined later by finding out he did the same for the other woman he was seeing on the side at the same time that I didn't know anything about lol.

This is interesting. People crave romance but the actions that trigger feelings of romance are not necessarily indicators that the other person is a good long term partner. If Ginger’s ex-boyfriend had gamed her and dishonestly said he loves her, all would have been well in the short term. He could go on that way till he decided he was done with the relationship, which is possibly what the other two did also. Sure, it is absolutely weird to pretend it is not Valentine’s Day and she is better off without him. However, it shows how much pressure there was on him (which he mishandled) and how important game is for a guy in the business of romance.

Sadly many good guys don’t like to game the situation. This leads to them turning off the woman who then rejects him and continues her search hoping she can find a long term partner exactly like him

[kml]

Is it "gaming the situation" to express your love to your partner? To show them that you value them? I think not.

That being said, given the Five Love Languages, one might be wise to figure out your partner's love languages before deciding what to do for them for Valentine's Day. The time I filled my husband's car with red construction paper hearts for him to find when he left for work was probably a gigantic waste of time, since his love languages (I later deduced) were quality time and gifts. An expensive titanium ice ax would have been a better move (although not in our budget that year!).

Among the best gifts I ever got (not Valentine's day) were from a college boyfriend. He was a very poor graduate student (didn't even have a car, which in Southern California was a real handicap at the time). But when we first met and he found out it was my birthday (I was volunteering in the recycling center near his lab) he came back and brought me a nice pottery honey jar from his office. Later when he would come to see me he would bring me flowers he picked on the walk from the bus stop. It was the thoughtfullness that got me. Sigh. He's still the one that got away.

[Ginger1]

as always, good discussion.

valentines day is a holiday i never really liked. it was always just full of pressure. i never wanted or needed anything on that day. i just hate that these events in my life now all have to attached to a date that is shoved in your face every year.

my exH was a big holiday person. he went all out on holidays. the disturbing thing is that it took him 2 freakin’ years to say ILU. but we all know that was a total hot mess from beginning to end. i knew our marriage was over when he didnt seem pleased i arranged for a babysitter so we could go out to dinner and he got me a “friendly” type card and a pair of cotton underwear, lol. i got him a giftcard for a massage.

With M, it was low key, i cooked dinner and he got me a card and flowers and the card was very sweet. and it said “love you” in there . i believe he meant it. but now im tied to that moment and that day.

gifts are not my love language. probably on the bottom of the list.

most guys i dated, including my ex, would not commit. took forever for my ex to even call me his GF. another guy i dated closey couldn't call what we had a “relationship” freaked out kn me when i posted a picture of us on that vacation. made me delete it. was worried about who would see it. these experiences kept me from getting close to men. i wouldnt dream of posting or saying anything unless they took the lead.

i dream of a guy who choses to love me every moment of every day, even when im unlovable. who is
proud to call me their girlfriend.

maybe i live in a fantasy land. unfortunately the more time that passed and the older i get, the more impossible it seems. and the more guarded i get. my trust my hope, my vulnerability. its almost gone.

stinks. but i have prepared myself for the life of just me and my dog

[Dawn70]

Is it "gaming the situation" to express your love to your partner? To show them that you value them? I think not.

That being said, given the Five Love Languages, one might be wise to figure out your partner's love languages before deciding what to do for them for Valentine's Day. The time I filled my husband's car with red construction paper hearts for him to find when he left for work was probably a gigantic waste of time, since his love languages (I later deduced) were quality time and gifts. An expensive titanium ice ax would have been a better move (although not in our budget that year!).

Among the best gifts I ever got (not Valentine's day) were from a college boyfriend. He was a very poor graduate student (didn't even have a car, which in Southern California was a real handicap at the time). But when we first met and he found out it was my birthday (I was volunteering in the recycling center near his lab) he came back and brought me a nice pottery honey jar from his office. Later when he would come to see me he would bring me flowers he picked on the walk from the bus stop. It was the thoughtfullness that got me. Sigh. He's still the one that got away.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think MLC was saying it is gaming to express love for a partner. I actually agree with most of what MLC said, though I would have phrased it differently. Does it really blow chunks that dudes strung G along and then only said I love you on Valentine's Day because it is somehow expected? Yes! She deserves better! Sadly though, I think many of us walk this fine line where we say Valentine's Day is so commercial and our partners should express love always, not just on some expected day because the calendar tells them too, but those same ones of us are the first to get hurt or complain when the partner lets the day go by unnoticed, with minimal effort, or with "common" expressions like flowers and candy. Now, I'm not saying G did anything wrong in her situation. She had guys that were @$$hats. To MLC's point, though, if her XH or boyfriend had been gaming her and said I love you earlier just because she wanted to hear it, is that really any different than being expected to say it on Valentine's Day?

Sparky and I celebrated Valentine's Day over the weekend. We had a fun outing. Sunday he cooked me a delicious meal and we watched a romantic comedy. Last night, we had no plans to celebrate, but last minute, we got off work at the same time so went to a local restaurant for supper before heading home. I had a small present for him that is something he can use for work....no candy or huge expressions of love. He didn't have anything for me and I truly didn't expect him to because we'd already celebrated over the weekend and we'd spent money on things we both wanted. I only had a present for him because it was something I had ordered that I knew he needed for work and it happened to arrive Friday. But here's the REAL romance in our life to me. I had not slept well Sunday night into Monday morning. In fact, I was awake from midnight until nearly 5:00 am, so all night, basically. So, last night, after we got home from our impromptu supper date (I was starving and had not eaten lunch at work because I was super busy, so I wanted to eat in town so I didn't have to wait until I got home and cook something....I was hangry! LOL), we chatted about our days, plans for the week, etc. Then, knowing that I had not slept the night before and was tired and a little down, he suggested we go to bed early and just watch tv or read or whatever. I knew if I tried to read I would be out pretty quick, so I said tv was fine. (Yes, we watch a lot of tv...it is what it is.) That precious man, sat there and let me curl up with my head in his lap, he tucked me in good with my sable soft blanket that he bought me for my birthday 2 years ago (a GREAT gift because I love me some cozy blankets), and he rubbed my back until I fell asleep and then just sat and watched tv for awhile and continued rubbing my back even after I was out just to make sure I stayed asleep and was getting some rest. Now, THAT, my friends, is the romance I'm looking for. I love getting cut flowers (yes, I said it and I'm so tired of everyone who acts like you are somehow dooming the planet if you like cut flowers) and candy (I'm a fat girl...duh!) and cards are always a treasure, but a man who will just BE in the moment with you and relax and take care of you.....THAT is romance. It doesn't have to be all wine and roses, which again, is the point that I interpreted from MLC's comments. It is the little things for me. The first year we were together, Sparky bought me a rather expensive Kurt Adler nutcracker for Christmas. He has quietly and without my saying anything beyond expressing my gratitude for the gifts and admiring how unique they are, bought me a different and unusual nutcracker for Christmas every year since. The first one was unique to us in that it featured a prominent "character" that plays into an inside joke we share that always makes us both laugh. This year's addition to the collection was from the local dollar store, but Sparky spent time looking at them and shopping at several places before he settled on that one for very specific reasons. Might not seem like much to some, but means the world to me. As far as cut flowers, I didn't get any for Valentine's day, but I get them on random days of the week just because Sparky went in a store and saw some and thought of me. He's definitely a keeper!

Sorry for the long hijack, but G, I'm so sorry you have had crappy Valentine's Day experiences. I hope you have the one you deserve at some point.

[LH19]

The older i get, the more impossible it seems. and the more guarded i get. my trust my hope, my vulnerability. its almost gone.

YBy doing this you last the a$$hats win.

stinks. but i have prepared myself for the life of just me and my dog

Well it does beat crazy cat lady.

[DonH]

Dang G reading this makes me feel so bad for you - not sorry for you like in a pity way, but just bad for you. I’d almost say my heart breaks for you and that doesn’t happen often. You obviously can’t go back, what’s done is done but clearly you let these guys get away with so much! Your ex, omg it boggles the mind why you’d even marry him. Two years to say ILY? Now clearly that’s better than two months or the two weeks it takes some to think they are in love, but just the other end of the spectrum. Then the guy who wrote “love you” that barely counts. It’s a way to say it without committing. I’ve done it! When I more than like the person but am not in love I’ve used “luv you” and yes spelled that way. Saying or writing I love you is the real deal. And anyone who avoids it being Valentine’s Day is clearly not in it. As BL said he likely felt pressure and didn’t handle it well. I’ve also been there and for me is often when I’m feeling forced or smothered, though I’ve never pretended it was not a holiday mind you. And a guy not wanting to post about vacation? Seriously?

I won’t try to analyze the why’s, if I even could, but you most certainly deserve more and perhaps needed to expect and require it. You seem to be doing that more now. Although that may be a component of this…

unfortunately the more time that passed and the older i get, the more impossible it seems. and the more guarded i get. my trust my hope, my vulnerability. its almost gone.

Very understandable. You are so accomplished at so many things: career, mother, daughter, friend and many more. It’s in the R venue where you struggle. You’re not alone! I’ve met others. In some ways I’m there myself. But just because what happened, happened, does not mean it can’t be different in the future. But that largely comes down to you. The common denominator with all these guys is you. You choose them and you choose to not make them measure up. What and how much the woman cleats and requires effects what the man does. If anything should be carried forward it’s that. Letting the rest go as best as you can is your best choice. Until then I’m really sorry for these past hurts. You really do deserve better. Don’t forget that.