Postcards from the Island of Misfit Toys ...

[bttrfly]

new thread

old thread: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2941768#Post2941768

[LH19]

It's really a mindset, isn't it? Do I want to be in a relationship? Do I want to explore the possibility of being in a relationship? Do I want to run screaming in the other direction like my hair is on fire?

If you have the attitude above you will certainly fail. If you are optimistic and patient you will eventually find someone who will love you and treat you way better than your exh ever did. That I can promise you.

[bttrfly]

LH, I agree with you. Gotta keep my head in the game.

[kml]

It's really a mindset, isn't it? Do I want to be in a relationship? Do I want to explore the possibility of being in a relationship? Do I want to run screaming in the other direction like my hair is on fire? Do I want to walk barefoot over broken glass? I mean, what are my choices here on the island of misfit toys?

I'm thankful that I felt over my marriage when I started dating (thanks to the previous years of DBing, reconciliation and then reversal) and that an intact sex drive meant I wasn't willing to sit on the sidelines. Although I've had adventures and lots of ups and downs in my dating life since my divorce, I wouldn't trade it for having sat out on the sidelines all those years.

But dating is just that - dating. You don't have to make a commitment to anyone. You don't have to get involved with anyone you don't want to. Don't be afraid to just dip your toe in the waters before you decide if dating is for you or not.

[Ready2Change]

But dating is just that - dating. You don't have to make a commitment to anyone. You don't have to get involved with anyone you don't want to. Don't be afraid to just dip your toe in the waters before you decide if dating is for you or not.

Licking the frosting doesn't mean you have to eat the whole cake...enjoy the frosting!

[bttrfly]

LH you've said here many times over the years that you really don't like my exh, so from your perspective I'm sure you'd think just about anyone would treat me better

... and you're right - he was miserable to live with at times, the last two years especially, and easy to track against his rising TSH levels.

Although in all fairness, I have to say the most romantic date I've ever been on was with him on our 19th wedding anniversary. That is a cherished memory, untarnished by anything, including his most monstrous post BD behavior. A guy's gonna have to go far to beat that date.

Kml in reading your posts over the years I've always had the impression that you were well and truly done and ready for your exh to go at the time of your D. I'm sure that made it much easier for you to date quickly. We all know that was not my experience.

I'm still treating online as a social experiment. I'm still taking extreme care in vetting potentials. Since I don't really care all that much one way or the I can afford to be picky, and if a guy I'm interested in doesn't return the interest, truly no harm, no foul.

Regarding frosting - not all frosting is tasty. It's got to be worthwhile to take in those extra calories.

[bttrfly]

had a conversation yesterday with my cousin nearest in age to me --- he's now mid-60s. He's always loved the ladies, and has the charming personality to be successful with pretty much any woman he wanted. Imagine my surprise when he said at this point he's not all that interested - she's got to be beautiful to really inspire him because he's got a lot more interesting things he'd rather spend his time on.

AND! he said that is par for the course for most people he's talked to who are his age.

Something for all of us to look forward to???

[BL42]

LH you've said here many times over the years that you really don't like my exh, so from your perspective I'm sure you'd think just about anyone would treat me better

Think that was his point behind with LH's promise lol

Although in all fairness, I have to say the most romantic date I've ever been on was with him on our 19th wedding anniversary. That is a cherished memory, untarnished by anything, including his most monstrous post BD behavior. A guy's gonna have to go far to beat that date.

Wonder if his personality that leant to making such a romantic date led him to being a cheater, or if they're completely unrelated. Just a thought...

Regarding frosting - not all frosting is tasty. It's got to be worthwhile to take in those extra calories.

Fondant makes for some incredible-looking cakes, but doesn't taste all that well. If we can apply that analogy to OLD.

had a conversation yesterday with my cousin nearest in age to me --- he's now mid-60s. He's always loved the ladies, and has the charming personality to be successful with pretty much any woman he wanted. Imagine my surprise when he said at this point he's not all that interested - she's got to be beautiful to really inspire him because he's got a lot more interesting things he'd rather spend his time on.

AND! he said that is par for the course for most people he's talked to who are his age.

Something for all of us to look forward to???

So have a kid or two, get divorced, then close off and live alone in the later years? Doesn't sound great.

[bttrfly]

LH you've said here many times over the years that you really don't like my exh, so from your perspective I'm sure you'd think just about anyone would treat me better

Think that was his point behind with LH's promise lol

perhaps.
perhaps not.

Although in all fairness, I have to say the most romantic date I've ever been on was with him on our 19th wedding anniversary. That is a cherished memory, untarnished by anything, including his most monstrous post BD behavior. A guy's gonna have to go far to beat that date.

Wonder if his personality that leant to making such a romantic date led him to being a cheater, or if they're completely unrelated. Just a thought...

keep thinking.
and the answer is NO.

Regarding frosting - not all frosting is tasty. It's got to be worthwhile to take in those extra calories.

Fondant makes for some incredible-looking cakes, but doesn't taste all that well. If we can apply that analogy to OLD.

perhaps.
perhaps not.

had a conversation yesterday with my cousin nearest in age to me --- he's now mid-60s. He's always loved the ladies, and has the charming personality to be successful with pretty much any woman he wanted. Imagine my surprise when he said at this point he's not all that interested - she's got to be beautiful to really inspire him because he's got a lot more interesting things he'd rather spend his time on.

AND! he said that is par for the course for most people he's talked to who are his age.

Something for all of us to look forward to???

So have a kid or two, get divorced, then close off and live alone in the later years? Doesn't sound great.

You're either being deliberately obtuse BL or completely missing the point.

[Ginger1]

So women aren’t interested so they better really beautiful to look at because he has better things to do with his time?

Am I reading that right ?

[BL42]

bttrfly,

You're either being deliberately obtuse BL or completely missing the point.

Maybe we're lost in translation. Not trying to be obtuse. The point being the average mid-60s person is not all that interested in a relationship unless the other person has inspirational beauty? All I'm saying is that seems a bit lonely - certainly a high standard making it harder for people who do want a relationship to find one - but maybe I just haven't embraced that approach yet and I'll thinking differently in 20 years.

[LH19]

BL looks up MGTOWS on the internet. My BF is one. Relationships struggles are not worth it to them and they would rather spend their time doing other things. It’s becoming more popular then ever these days.

[bttrfly]

So women aren’t interested so they better really beautiful to look at because he has better things to do with his time?

Am I reading that right ?

you are not reading that right.

1. He has better things to do with his time/has lost interest in the dating game
2. He would revise that opinion, but only for someone compelling. Compelling isn't limited to beautiful outside. Would also have to include a great personality - what some call the complete package.

[bttrfly]

BL looks up MGTOWS on the internet. My BF is one. Relationships struggles are not worth it to them and they would rather spend their time doing other things. It’s becoming more popular then ever these days.

not just men, LH. So many of my gfs say the same thing. It makes sense to me if you have a really full life that you're not interested in HHH, or don't want to be bothered going through all the "stuff" that surrounds relationships. They are work, even the best ones. If you're at a really happy and peaceful place in your life with lots of interests and a healthy social life with good friends and family, a lot of people are happier OUTSIDE of a relationship rather than being in one.

I just never expected this particular person to say that. Surprised me.

[bttrfly]

bttrfly,

You're either being deliberately obtuse BL or completely missing the point.

Maybe we're lost in translation. Not trying to be obtuse. The point being the average mid-60s person is not all that interested in a relationship unless the other person has inspirational beauty? All I'm saying is that seems a bit lonely - certainly a high standard making it harder for people who do want a relationship to find one - but maybe I just haven't embraced that approach yet and I'll thinking differently in 20 years.

No. He's not interested. Maybe someone gorgeous inside and out could change his mind, but he's not looking and doesn't really care anymore. He's got a great life with his kids, hobbies, friends and work. He's not lonely at all.

[BL42]

He's got a great life with his kids, hobbies, friends and work. He's not lonely at all.

Kids, hobbies, friends, and work are great. I totally get that. But they're also not the same as having a meaningful romantic relationship with someone you trust and can be a long term partner with.

Guess what I'm saying is...while I'm glad to hear people are living such full lives, it's also a bit sad there's so little interest in making a true genuine romantic connection.

Who knows, like I said...maybe I'll feel the same in 20 years.

[kml]

Kml in reading your posts over the years I've always had the impression that you were well and truly done and ready for your exh to go at the time of your D. I'm sure that made it much easier for you to date quickly. We all know that was not my experience.

Yes - I had about 6 years of DB, reconciliation, and then final departure. I worked through my stuff over that time and was ready to let go once he was gone because I realized there as nothing he could do that would ever win my trust back. But you've had a lot of time, don't you feel ready try dating now?

I'll liken it to something else I thought about recently. In September I had the opportunity to go horseback riding. I loved horses as a child and ode the old nags at the local stables when I could scrape together the money. As an adult, I've ridden maybe once every ten years.

The ride in September as fun, and I felt comfortable on the horse. But I realized that at my age, if I want to rides horses again, I better not wait another ten years! There's no guarantee that I could still do that in my mid-70's. I should find a stable locally and ride.

Today it dawned on me that the same applies to dating. I'm still not quite ready yet - but I better not wait too long before I date again, if I want to. There's not guarantee that intimacy will be as fun ten years from now as it is now. There's also no guarantee that I will find or attract anybody ten years from now (or even now, really, as I haven't tested the waters yet lol. )

Originally Posted by bttrfly
Although in all fairness, I have to say the most romantic date I've ever been on was with him on our 19th wedding anniversary. That is a cherished memory, untarnished by anything, including his most monstrous post BD behavior. A guy's gonna have to go far to beat that date.
Wonder if his personality that leant to making such a romantic date led him to being a cheater, or if they're completely unrelated. Just a thought...

I had the same thought about this! My narcissistic ex could be good about the grand gestures - but it had less to do with me and more to do with him trying to create some perfect image in his mind. The bed strewn with plumeria blossoms in the Hawaiian beachfront room - yeah, that was him trying to create some image in his head. The really kind, thoughtful, caring things that other boyfriends have done for me - were not his forte. The foot massages, the telling me to sit down and rest while he'll cook dinner - those things are more meaningful and my ex never did those things.

[BL42]

Although in all fairness, I have to say the most romantic date I've ever been on was with him on our 19th wedding anniversary. That is a cherished memory, untarnished by anything, including his most monstrous post BD behavior. A guy's gonna have to go far to beat that date.

Wonder if his personality that leant to making such a romantic date led him to being a cheater, or if they're completely unrelated. Just a thought...

I had the same thought about this! My narcissistic ex could be good about the grand gestures - but it had less to do with me and more to do with him trying to create some perfect image in his mind. The bed strewn with plumeria blossoms in the Hawaiian beachfront room - yeah, that was him trying to create some image in his head. The really kind, thoughtful, caring things that other boyfriends have done for me - were not his forte. The foot massages, the telling me to sit down and rest while he'll cook dinner - those things are more meaningful and my ex never did those things.

Glad someone else understood what I was trying to say there and it resonated with you kml. Thought maybe I touched a nerve with bttrfly based on her response.

Just meant sometimes the people who are over the top with things (E.g., love bombing, overly happy to the point it comes off as fake, grand gestures...etc.) are actually just putting on a face and likely to do something like backstab or cheat despite the vibe they try to send you with their words and actions.

Don't know bttrfly's Ex at all obviously so not judging him or the 19th anniversary romance specifically, but do think that's the case at times for some people exhibiting those treats and something I'll look at for the future.

Always got the impression ExMIL came off as a little too over the top / fake in her welcomes and interactions, and now know my gut was right all along with ExMIL...AND that (surprise, surprise) ExW exhibits those same traits.

[bttrfly]

But you've had a lot of time, don't you feel ready try dating now?

yeah, I feel like I'm ready - that's why i'm on a couple of OLD sites, and chatting with a few guys.

some examples of where it gets sticky for me:

guy #1, mr. award winner ... aside: yes, had a photo of his award on his profile. i remain unimpressed because i have a long-time friend who has won a ridiculous number of these awards, and another who has also won so many she started gifting one to friends or family each year. The question wasn't would C. win, it became 'who gets the emmy this year when C. wins again?'


back to my point:

The guy looks familiar, not sure why as it was a technical award... i continue reading his profile. 6 kids! He has 6 kids. My brain kicks on. Let's take a gander at Bttrfly's thought train as it derails, shall we?

"ok. I never wanted just one, would have been happy with up to 4, but 6 ... hmmm. that's a lot of different personalities."

"6 kids... SIX kids... they probably each have someone significant, right? what's Thanksgiving dinner like over there? that's 6 x2 (with partners) = 12 people.... then grandkids .... maybe another 6 minimally ... that's 18 .... not including friends, siblings and their partners ....
pause ....

longer pause ....

"UGH GETMEOUTTAHERE THAT'S WAY TOO MANY EXTRANEOUS PEOPLE!!!!!!"

"Am I feral?" I wonder as I run screaming in the other direction and the thought train derails in a spectacular crash into a deep ravine, smoke, dust and debris everywhere.

------

Hinge does this cool thing where someone can record an answer to a question. It really helps weed out the crowd. Let's get on another thought train, shall we? and you can play too ...

I cannot tell you how many guys I've hit the X on because (pick as many as you want, they're free):

1. There ain't no way I'm listening to that voice over dinner and drinks
2. Good God he's barely articulate
3. BETA BOY
4. FREAK
5. EEEWWWWW

------

On Match my head started exploding recently after a half hour of reading profiles where seemingly well-educated and intelligent men consistently misused "who" and "that" in a sentence.

started to really DRIVE ME NUTS ...

More views into BF's thoughts:

"Huh, I've never thought of myself as a grammar nazi, yet here I am. OMG And there's another one! WHO, WHO, people are WHO not THAT! WTAF. This guy doesn't know the difference between too and to ... this guy doesn't know the difference between you're and your ... this one doesn't know the difference between their and there ... WHAT WERE YOU PEOPLE DOING DURING ENGLISH CLASS!? SLEEPING????? DOODLING??? DROOLING ON YOUR NOTEBOOKS?????"


I'm not a fan of guys who include photos with other women or obviously cropped out other women.

I'm not a fan of guys who include photos with their pets.

Click baiting your pet? That's not right. I could post a photo of me sitting down with three wolf pups crawling on me, giving me kisses and investigating my shoes BUT I DON'T because I love my wolf puppies too much to use them as click bait on a dating app AND I VALUE MYSELF enough to know (As LH's tagline says) the right ones will come to you if you just be yourself.

(noteworthy tidbit du jour: wolf puppies LOVE shoelaces, don't ask me why, but they do. And, they can get very aggressive if you don't let them have their way with your shoelaces. They do not care if your feet are in said shoe. And even if they're only 8 weeks old, their little chompers are SHARP .... Now you know) ....

Let's return to OLD with BF ...

I could dedicate entire chapters worth of threads on how easy it is to pick out the guys in MLC. Rather than do that, here are some key phrases to be aware of as you go through your OLD selection process:

He might be in a MLC if any of the following appear in his profile:

1. He posts that he wants to have "FUN FUN FUN, who's with me??"
2. I'm looking for my soul mate, who will complete me, and I her
3. I'm looking for someone who can make me happy and I'll make her happy too ...
4. I'm selling everything I own, buying an RV and traveling because LIFE'S TOO SHORT
5. Any one who mentions LIFE'S TOO SHORT (unless they're a widower, I give those poor b@stards a break on this one)
6. I want to travel, anywhere, anytime, where's your passport? Let's go let's go because LIFE'S TOO SHORT
7. I work out 8 times a week because LIFE'S TOO SHORT
8. This is MY TIME

Swipe left, early and often.

Here's another look at my criteria. I will not date:

1. Lawyers
2. Anyone in law enforcement
3. Not crazy about doctors
4. People in sales
5. People married more than once
6. People shorter than me
7. Atheists
8. People of radically different faiths than my own - because if it's gonna last, we need some common ground and my faith is really important to me.
9. I probably won't date a guy who is Italian. Why? I already have enough Italian male relatives. IYKYK.

BTW, had a conversation with a guy at work a few years ago who is also Italian. We thoroughly agreed - no dating Italians. In his words, "I look at my female cousins and ... man, those women scare me!" lmao. He ain't no beta boy - ex Seal ... funny as h3ll ... back to my list:

10. People with kids under the age of 16. Really prefer people with kids up and gone. Don't wanna be involved with someone raising kids, thank you. Raised one. I'm done.

there's more but that's enough to give you a sense of why I wonder if I'm really up for this?

OTOH, Sportsguy passed my rigorous selection process and so far, I really like his vibe.

BUT I was not prepared for the valley of tears post meeting him, as feelings came up from the beginning of my last relationship, which was, of course with my exh. It's ok. I felt the feelings and they haven't killed me.

Yet.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
Although in all fairness, I have to say the most romantic date I've ever been on was with him on our 19th wedding anniversary. That is a cherished memory, untarnished by anything, including his most monstrous post BD behavior. A guy's gonna have to go far to beat that date.
Wonder if his personality that leant to making such a romantic date led him to being a cheater, or if they're completely unrelated. Just a thought...

I had the same thought about this! My narcissistic ex could be good about the grand gestures - but it had less to do with me and more to do with him trying to create some perfect image in his mind. The bed strewn with plumeria blossoms in the Hawaiian beachfront room - yeah, that was him trying to create some image in his head. The really kind, thoughtful, caring things that other boyfriends have done for me - were not his forte. The foot massages, the telling me to sit down and rest while he'll cook dinner - those things are more meaningful and my ex never did those things.

It wasn't a grand gesture. The restaurant we picked always did something specific for their couples celebrating anniversaries. Neither of us knew that going in, so we were completely surprised and were both enchanted by the rose petals strewn on the table, the great food (as always) the special little touches from the staff.

After dinner we spent some quality time together as a couple, rather than as parents. It was amazing and will remain a cherished memory for the rest of my life.

[bttrfly]

Although in all fairness, I have to say the most romantic date I've ever been on was with him on our 19th wedding anniversary. That is a cherished memory, untarnished by anything, including his most monstrous post BD behavior. A guy's gonna have to go far to beat that date.

Wonder if his personality that leant to making such a romantic date led him to being a cheater, or if they're completely unrelated. Just a thought...

I had the same thought about this! My narcissistic ex could be good about the grand gestures - but it had less to do with me and more to do with him trying to create some perfect image in his mind. The bed strewn with plumeria blossoms in the Hawaiian beachfront room - yeah, that was him trying to create some image in his head. The really kind, thoughtful, caring things that other boyfriends have done for me - were not his forte. The foot massages, the telling me to sit down and rest while he'll cook dinner - those things are more meaningful and my ex never did those things.

Glad someone else understood what I was trying to say there and it resonated with you kml. Thought maybe I touched a nerve with bttrfly based on her response.

Just meant sometimes the people who are over the top with things (E.g., love bombing, overly happy to the point it comes off as fake, grand gestures...etc.) are actually just putting on a face and likely to do something like backstab or cheat despite the vibe they try to send you with their words and actions.

Don't know bttrfly's Ex at all obviously so not judging him or the 19th anniversary romance specifically, but do think that's the case at times for some people exhibiting those treats and something I'll look at for the future.

Always got the impression ExMIL came off as a little too over the top / fake in her welcomes and interactions, and now know my gut was right all along with ExMIL...AND that (surprise, surprise) ExW exhibits those same traits.

My exh was never a grand gesture guy.

He was the guy who would notice if I'd been having a hard time and bring my a bouquet of roses, "just because I noticed you've been having a hard time lately and I want you to know how much I love you."

yes, KML. He did awful things too. I'm going to say it before you have a chance to jump in and remind me and everyone else. But, we aren't talking about the awful things here. We're talking about grand gestures, and that wasn't his style.

One more thing:

I think it's really REALLY important for everyone, and I'm not singling any particular person out as I post this -- It's important for EVERYONE here, myself included, to think before they post and ask one simple question: are you responding from a place of your own trigger-point or a place of neutrality?

[Ginger1]

He's got a great life with his kids, hobbies, friends and work. He's not lonely at all.

Kids, hobbies, friends, and work are great. I totally get that. But they're also not the same as having a meaningful romantic relationship with someone you trust and can be a long term partner with.

Guess what I'm saying is...while I'm glad to hear people are living such full lives, it's also a bit sad there's so little interest in making a true genuine romantic connection.

Who knows, like I said...maybe I'll feel the same in 20 years.

I agree. I don’t think people seek out romantic partnership because their lives aren’t interesting or full enough. It’s just a different kind of connection that can’t be replaced by a bowling league. Lol. Some people I guess are fine without it and the benefits to them do not outweigh the work it might take/ keep that romantic relationship. But I don’t think that is mutually exclusive of having a whole bunch of hobbies and family connection.

[Ginger1]

….. and lord help me if I have to hear this woman say and explain “I am chaperoning my sons 5th grade dance tonight”

WE KNOW! WE HEARD IT 1000000000 times since Monday !!!!’

[bttrfly]

….. and lord help me if I have to hear this woman say and explain “I am chaperoning my sons 5th grade dance tonight”

WE KNOW! WE HEARD IT 1000000000 times since Monday !!!!’

???

[bttrfly]

oh. the nutjob in the office w u....

lord have mercy

and it's not so much about romantic connection as it is about naahh, i'm good!

[bttrfly]

and I forgot one crucial thing:

I ALWAYS swipe left on any man wearing Yankees gear.

[BL42]

and I forgot one crucial thing:

I ALWAYS swipe left on any man wearing Yankees gear.

You have a lot of swipe left criteria bttrfly - who would've thought winning an Emmy was a negative, like Mach40 not liking grad degrees - but I can support this one. Also NJ Devils gear ;-)

[bttrfly]

So why did I pass on that particular guy?

I thought it was plain. 6 kids. . . if each kid has a partner, that's 12 people. if each kid has one kid, that's 6 more people. Kids from large families tend to grow up to have large families of their own so we can probably guess there would be more than 6 grandkids. And siblings. And the siblings partners. And friends. And the friends partners. And ....

TOO MANY EXTRANEOUS PEOPLE.

I don't want to meet your people.

I'm having a tough enough time meeting you, lol.

That's where the train derailed in spectacular fashion ....

but since you brought that up, I didn't swipe left because he won an Emmy, but his posting that photo did give me pause.

Why?

Let me find out how great you are organically.

The people I know who have been wildly successful in life haven't had to brag about it anywhere, and I respect them all the more for it.

So, once more, for those in the back of the room: it's not posting the Emmy, it's using it as clickbait that I find unattractive.

One of the most important people in my life, ever, won every award his company had. He was extraordinary in every way. He didn't brag about his awards. If you weren't invited to his home you wouldn't have known about them, as his awards lined his office, and in the middle of them, facing his desk, was a framed baby picture of ME, because I was the apple of his eye, his little princess, and to me, that man hung the moon.

Do you know where his awards and trophies are right now?

In a box, in a storage shed in my back yard.

I learned at 30 years old that you could be the absolutely best in your field and it didn't matter in the end, or save you from lying in a bed staring at a ceiling hallucinating for the last three years of your life while your family lost you a piece at a time.

So, I'm happy for the winners, for the people who achieve, and I'm proud of my friends and family members who have success. But I never forget that all of that is fondant. What really matters is who you are, not what you do, how you contribute to the world around you and how you treat those you love who also love you. And, it's also how you treat those you don't know, servers, the gas station guy, the lady checking your groceries for you, the bag boy.

So no, I wasn't impressed by his posting that Emmy. I'd be more impressed if we ever met and he was nice to the server or the bus boy.

hope that clarifies my position.

[kml]

"UGH GETMEOUTTAHERE THAT'S WAY TOO MANY EXTRANEOUS PEOPLE!!!!!!"

Lol - this cracks me up that this was your response to 6 kids. MY response would be: "Is he super religious? Or does he have 3-6 baby mommas? Is he broke from paying for college for 6 kids? Will he even have any time to date?"

I think your screening process for OLD is pretty on point. However, the ex-SEAL should have been disqualified just on that basis. I worked in the Navy hospital here during medical school, and trust me, Navy SEALs are mostly really crazy.

[kml]

As for the pets - I think it's a GOOD idea to put your pet pictures in the profile. I mean, if a guy has cats, and a woman is highly allergic to cats (or vice versa) that helps avoid a whole lot of wasted time. Plus, most pet people think it says something good about another person if hey are pet people too. (And those who DON'T like pets can be forewarned.)

Just don't be like the Santa Claus guy I saw in his bathrobe holding a duck. That was just TOO weitd for me.

[bttrfly]

I never dated the ex Seal, we were colleagues, both Italian, who whole-heartedly agreed to never date italians, lol

[Ginger1]

….. and lord help me if I have to hear this woman say and explain “I am chaperoning my sons 5th grade dance tonight”

WE KNOW! WE HEARD IT 1000000000 times since Monday !!!!’

This indeed was meant to be on my thread.

But yea. I am losing my mind .

[Ginger1]

and I forgot one crucial thing:

I ALWAYS swipe left on any man wearing Yankees gear.

You have a lot of swipe left criteria bttrfly - who would've thought winning an Emmy was a negative, like Mach40 not liking grad degrees - but I can support this one. Also NJ Devils gear ;-)

You would swipe sooooo hard right on me ! Devils gear and all

[BL42]

the ex-SEAL should have been disqualified just on that basis. I worked in the Navy hospital here during medical school, and trust me, Navy SEALs are mostly really crazy.

I think the Jocko Willink break up advice videos are pretty on point, align with DB'ing principles, and are a good reinforcement. However at one point he says "Navy Seals have a pretty high divorce rate...like 90%". Kind of funny, but also maybe true.

[bttrfly]

"UGH GETMEOUTTAHERE THAT'S WAY TOO MANY EXTRANEOUS PEOPLE!!!!!!"

Lol - this cracks me up that this was your response to 6 kids. MY response would be: "Is he super religious? Or does he have 3-6 baby mommas? Is he broke from paying for college for 6 kids? Will he even have any time to date?"

I think your screening process for OLD is pretty on point. However, the ex-SEAL should have been disqualified just on that basis. I worked in the Navy hospital here during medical school, and trust me, Navy SEALs are mostly really crazy.

I know right? I started hyperventilating as I did the math and kept adding friends and family members. Talk about crowd phobia, lololol

I also like your response. Best to leave the have kids response as "I'll tell you later" for more than three ...

I'm sure that my checklist is leaving some people saying I'm too picky. So what? I've always been picky. I know what works for me and what doesn't. I really don't want to waste my or anyone else's time if I know going in that for me it's not going to be a good fit, but I'll go anyway to have something to do. That's never been my style.

Now, sportsguy's allergic to cats. Not sure how bad. And I ain't getting rid of my cat. So we'll see how this goes. The point is we're both willing to explore it. Do they still prescribe Seldane, lololol?

[bttrfly]

….. and lord help me if I have to hear this woman say and explain “I am chaperoning my sons 5th grade dance tonight”

WE KNOW! WE HEARD IT 1000000000 times since Monday !!!!’

This indeed was meant to be on my thread.

But yea. I am losing my mind .

i'm so sorry honey.

when is her vacation?

[kml]

Lol - just saw this meme: “If you’re single, try the dating apps . You’ll still be single, but you’ll appreciate it a lot more”.

[bttrfly]

posting this because it might resonate with some. we all need to lead with compassion, imho.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, S.J.

thinking more deeply about this today.

what does it mean to be a spiritual being having a human experience?

how does this belief change the way we operate in the world?

how do we reconcile these two diametrically opposing views, being spiritual and having a human experience?

how does this belief change the way we interact with our fellow beings having a human experience?

can we bring more compassion to our fellow spiritual beings who are maybe struggling with this human experience?

[Ready2Change]

posting this because it might resonate with some. we all need to lead with compassion, imho.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, S.J.

"Radical Forgiveness" dug deeper into this.

When you flip the way you see the world, everything changes.

[bttrfly]

I've added his writings to my reading list.

[bttrfly]

oh and he's a great-great grand nephew of Voltaire, who's writings I also love.

[bttrfly]

whose. need that extra jolt of caffeine this am. had to carry the pup outside at 3am and stay up with him until 5 to make sure he was ok. i think his diabetes is really more of an issue than his cancer at this point. i'm changing how i feed him as an experiment. rather than two meals a day i'm switching to same amount of food but spaced out every 6 hours or so to try to level out his blood sugar.

anyone with vet experience please feel free to weigh in. i'd appreciate any suggestions.

he was fine after he had some food.

[bttrfly]

article on the front page of CNN talking about the rise in ethical non-monogamous relationships.

thoughts, people in DB land?

seems like a recipe for disaster, setting the stage for one person to pretzel while the other cake eats, or am I being too provincial?

[Ginger1]

article on the front page of CNN talking about the rise in ethical non-monogamous relationships.

thoughts, people in DB land?

seems like a recipe for disaster, setting the stage for one person to pretzel while the other cake eats, or am I being too provincial?

I used to judge, but I judge no longer. If both parties are truly comfortable with it, all the more power to them

[bttrfly]

article on the front page of CNN talking about the rise in ethical non-monogamous relationships.

thoughts, people in DB land?

seems like a recipe for disaster, setting the stage for one person to pretzel while the other cake eats, or am I being too provincial?

I used to judge, but I judge no longer. If both parties are truly comfortable with it, all the more power to them

I understand the point is how many say they're ok with it but really aren't? that's the $64,000 question.

[Ginger1]

article on the front page of CNN talking about the rise in ethical non-monogamous relationships.

thoughts, people in DB land?

seems like a recipe for disaster, setting the stage for one person to pretzel while the other cake eats, or am I being too provincial?

I used to judge, but I judge no longer. If both parties are truly comfortable with it, all the more power to them

I understand the point is how many say they're ok with it but really aren't? that's the $64,000 question.

Like for any relationship to work, it takes trust, communication, and openness.

[kml]

I share bttrfly’s concern that, more often than not, one partner is going along with it in a desperate attempt to pretzel themselves and salvage the relationship. Otherwise I have no problem with it, although why not just stay single and non- monogamous then?

[bttrfly]

G, I totally get what you're saying and I even agree with it, in theory. I wouldn't consider it but who am I to tell someone how to live their life or negotiate their marriage.

although why not just stay single and non- monogamous then?

I completely agree with this ^^^ K. Some dating apps are offering it as an option in the section where people say what they're looking for in a relationship.

It's now on CNNs home page. The CNN article focused on couples who were dissatisfied in their marriages for a number of reasons - sexual incompatibility, boredom, lack of the excitement that comes with a new relationship ... in short, so many of the reasons we read in Newcomers and MLC when newbies first land here. What we call The Script.

I know someone whose spouse floated the idea, my friend went along with it because they were scared not to ... within two years they were separated, heading for divorce. The article didn't go into any research about how often that happens.

I would still like to see a follow up with honest stats showing how many of these couples are still together and happy versus divorced, or separated in 6, 12, or 18 months.

[BL42]

article on the front page of CNN talking about the rise in ethical non-monogamous relationships.

thoughts, people in DB land?

seems like a recipe for disaster, setting the stage for one person to pretzel while the other cake eats, or am I being too provincial?

I'm skeptical it works long-term. Seems eventually one of them will get jealous and it unravels.

[bttrfly]

I agree.

[DonH]

Can a monogamous couple happily become nonmonogamous? It’s possible but not easy, experts say.

Among the things that strike me and seem to be a part of our crazy world is “experts say”. Just who are these “experts”? The same experts who told us millions would die from Covid in the first months? The same experts who can’t accurately predict a snow storm 5 days away but try to to tell us what the temperature of the earths surface will be in 10 years? The same experts who told us it was a 97% certainty Hillary would beat Trump? Todays media is all full of experts and unnamed sources. Our mainstream media can’t even spell or use proper grammar but we still want to believe what they write.

As for the topic, how is this different than the open marriages of years past? There’s quite a bit of research on how well that all worked out. Fixing the problems between 2 people rarely happen by adding a third or one of the two turning away from their partner towards another person.

[Ginger1]

I think it works better if you start that way, not decide 15 years in to go that way

[bttrfly]

adding extraneous people never helps a situation. better to man / woman up and face the real issues between spouses and deal with them directly.

but what do I know? I'm divorced after a 20+ year marriage and posting in the surviving section of a divorce busting website.

thank God this section is here for those of us trying to re-build and face the challenges of life post D.

[BL42]

Fixing the problems between 2 people rarely happen by adding a third or one of the two turning away from their partner towards another person.

Indeed. Spot on.

[bttrfly]

DonH is getting unanimous agreements here ...

[Mach40]

Will the Grad Degree statement I made ever go away.. lol
This thread is really great... Lots of great insight into dating, not dating etc..

[bttrfly]

Personal OLD update
I canceled the paid part of my online dating subscription the other day. It had always been my intention to do that at this point, so the paid part ends at the end of next month. I'm on two sites. The paid site is definitely a higher caliber of person, imho, although I do like certain features on the other site.

Lessons learned to date from this on-going social experiment:

* Men are like buses. There's a new one every 5 minutes. I may not want to ride that bus/take that trip, but that does not negate there being more opportunities every day. Which, if you think about it, is really actually quite sad. So many lonely people looking to meet other people. Our society is pretty isolating and CV19 did nothing except make that more pronounced.

* I've found this to be a good way for me to practice getting my groove back, aka talking to men who are potential romantic interests. After 34 years of not doing that, believe me the practice is welcome, lol.

* I'm really pleased with my vetting process. My list of swipe left reasons may seem too long for some reading here but it works well for me and is true to my values and goals, short and long-term.

* I've met one person who I think is worth getting to know better. I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket at this point, so there may be more meet ups/dates in my future with others.

Overall, I think the experience has been a positive one.

[bttrfly]

Separate from the OLD issue. I'm again giving thought to an annulment. I still find myself returning from time to time to the articles I've found online outlining what qualifies as an annulment in a Catholic marriage. I believe mine qualifies for a couple of reasons I won't go into here. That knowledge doesn't make me feel that our D was inevitable, but it does give me comfort when I think about how long we lasted as a couple, and gives me a lot to think about vis a vis any future relationships. I've talked to our parish priest (a long-time family friend who had a close relationship with my parents, Mom especially). His advice stands - don't rush to an annulment unless you meet someone you want to get serious about. I haven't met anyone, but know that the option is always there if I want it, from which I derive a lot of peace.

My main focus currently is threefold: moving, renting out my house and taking the best care I can of my dog, who has had some rough times in the middle of the night lately. We're in an end of life palliative care situation here, so quality is paramount in our minds as a family as we deal with this.

I recently shredded two years' worth of documents from the period in our marriage where my exh's thyroid was first diagnosed and out of control, and we ended up in marriage counseling. It was incredibly helpful for me to read in print what the real cashflow and expenditures were. Helped a lot with my acceptance. Helped to own my side of the street and to counter the gas-lighting that followed at BD 10 years later.

Tangentially, son and I had a conversation this morning about needs vs wants and comforts vs lack. He initiated it. He brought up his father, saying that exh needs comforts and luxuries more than most people. Son thinks it's because exh had so much lack and instability growing up, and because his parents did not meet exh's needs at crucial times.

Son also said he's really grateful to have had such a different childhood, one which was stable and as he puts it, charmed, because he doesn't "need" much to be happy. The kid's 23. Where'd he get so much insight? He's a blessing for sure. What I'm most happy about is that he's not angry, judging his dad, resentful, there's nothing negative here. He's merely stating facts as he sees them, and if anything has acceptance and compassion for what his dad went through as a child which made him into the person he is today.

Son is glad he's not someone who "needs" to fill himself up with outside luxuries. That ability to see the big picture is something I've worked hard to instill. So glad it found fertile ground. Making sure his needs were met, and that he learned the difference between wants and needs really early in life was also a parenting goal of mine. Sometimes we do get a parental "progress report" when we least expect it. Really grateful today for a lot.

[BL42]

bttrfly,

I'm on two sites. The paid site is definitely a higher caliber of person, imho, although I do like certain features on the other site.

Which sites? Which site did you find better, and what were the pros/cons?

* Men are like buses. There's a new one every 5 minutes. I may not want to ride that bus/take that trip, but that does not negate there being more opportunities every day.

Not sure I like that analogy as a man lol, but glad you're finding plenty of options. All I'd say is if you do want to make a connection don't let the number of options cause you to discard the options so casually...getting caught up in the paradox of choice.

Which, if you think about it, is really actually quite sad. So many lonely people looking to meet other people. Our society is pretty isolating and CV19 did nothing except make that more pronounced.

I think it is sad. There are a lot of lonely people out there who would love to make a connection, and it seems like our society is going the wrong way there.

* I've found this to be a good way for me to practice getting my groove back, aka talking to men who are potential romantic interests. After 34 years of not doing that, believe me the practice is welcome, lol.

My buddy tells me to open up and just go out with people and have fun and practice. Gotta knock that rust off lol

* I'm really pleased with my vetting process. My list of swipe left reasons may seem too long for some reading here but it works well for me and is true to my values and goals, short and long-term.

They did come off as overly selective to me, but hey if you have options and it's working for you...

* I've met one person who I think is worth getting to know better. I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket at this point, so there may be more meet ups/dates in my future with others.

Only one? Seems like going through all that there would be at least a couple you'd go out on a date with.

Overall, I think the experience has been a positive one.

Glad to hear it.

Separate from the OLD issue. I'm again giving thought to an annulment. I still find myself returning from time to time to the articles I've found online outlining what qualifies as an annulment in a Catholic marriage. I believe mine qualifies for a couple of reasons I won't go into here. That knowledge doesn't make me feel that our D was inevitable, but it does give me comfort when I think about how long we lasted as a couple, and gives me a lot to think about vis a vis any future relationships. I've talked to our parish priest (a long-time family friend who had a close relationship with my parents, Mom especially). His advice stands - don't rush to an annulment unless you meet someone you want to get serious about. I haven't met anyone, but know that the option is always there if I want it, from which I derive a lot of peace.

I'm surprised to hear that. Weren't you on a another poster's thread awhile back (maybe Drh2001 or ScottBs?), talking about how difficult the annulment process is and not to pursue it? Or perhaps I'm thinking of someone else. Anyway...good for you. Hope it brings you more closure/peace if you decide to pursue it futher.

[bttrfly]

bttrfly,

I'm on two sites. The paid site is definitely a higher caliber of person, imho, although I do like certain features on the other site.

Which sites? Which site did you find better, and what were the pros/cons?

Match and Hinge.
Match the profiles are more detailed so you get a better feel for commonalities.
Hinge allows users to record answers to questions or post video answers.

hard to choose but I think I prefer the people on Match.

* Men are like buses. There's a new one every 5 minutes. I may not want to ride that bus/take that trip, but that does not negate there being more opportunities every day.

Not sure I like that analogy as a man lol, but glad you're finding plenty of options. All I'd say is if you do want to make a connection don't let the number of options cause you to discard the options so casually...getting caught up in the paradox of choice.

I could say the same about women, another comes along every 5 minutes. It's not a saying I made up, btw, it's an old saw.

I think it is rude to ever discard anyone casually. I read every profile and every message before deciding whether or not to go forward. I treat the people who reach out to me the way I want to be treated myself. After a month and a half of being polite and responding to everyone, a wise person we both know told me to knock that off and just swipe left, as apparently some guys think that if you politely say no it's an opportunity to engage further.

* I'm really pleased with my vetting process. My list of swipe left reasons may seem too long for some reading here but it works well for me and is true to my values and goals, short and long-term.

They did come off as overly selective to me, but hey if you have options and it's working for you...

plenty of options and it's working really well, actually.

* I've met one person who I think is worth getting to know better. I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket at this point, so there may be more meet ups/dates in my future with others.

Only one? Seems like going through all that there would be at least a couple you'd go out on a date with.

you only need one, BL.

There are other guys I've chatted with but I'm really not interested in moving forward with most of them.

Separate from the OLD issue. I'm again giving thought to an annulment. I still find myself returning from time to time to the articles I've found online outlining what qualifies as an annulment in a Catholic marriage. I believe mine qualifies for a couple of reasons I won't go into here. That knowledge doesn't make me feel that our D was inevitable, but it does give me comfort when I think about how long we lasted as a couple, and gives me a lot to think about vis a vis any future relationships. I've talked to our parish priest (a long-time family friend who had a close relationship with my parents, Mom especially). His advice stands - don't rush to an annulment unless you meet someone you want to get serious about. I haven't met anyone, but know that the option is always there if I want it, from which I derive a lot of peace.

I'm surprised to hear that. Weren't you on a another poster's thread awhile back (maybe Drh2001 or ScottBs?), talking about how difficult the annulment process is and not to pursue it? Or perhaps I'm thinking of someone else. Anyway...good for you. Hope it brings you more closure/peace if you decide to pursue it futher.

I do not recognize either of those posters. I do recall talking about annulment, the difficulty and expense of the process and being asked for and sending people to the articles which I found helpful. Yes, the annulment process is difficult. My cousin went through it with her very brief first marriage. She gave me the full de-brief of her experience. It does not sound easy or particularly pleasant. I would still consider it if the incentive was there, but honestly - I don't envision ever marrying again.

The most import thing for me was reading about the process and what qualifies and what doesn't. It really helped me to put my situation into a theological context, which is often overlooked as people struggle with every other aspect of divorce. Having done so several years post D, I was able to probably be a bit more objective in looking at the marriage from the perspective of the Catholic Church than I would have been even two or three years post BD.

Divorce is layered, for me anyway, in terms of loss. There was the obvious loss of marriage, partnership, and of course trust replaced by betrayal, and all the other adorable emotions we experience post-BD.

Then there's the unexpected losses which for me took a while to uncover, and by a while I mean years. One was concern about my religion, something I took for granted before finding myself in this situation. I'm in a good place with all of it now.

[BL42]

bttrfly,

you only need one, BL.

There are other guys I've chatted with but I'm really not interested in moving forward with most of them.

Very true, but might you miss a good one who might actually present better in person than OLD messaging? After you initially filter of course. Just a thought.

I'm again giving thought to an annulment.

I'm surprised to hear that. Weren't you on a another poster's thread awhile back (maybe Drh2001 or ScottBs?), talking about how difficult the annulment process is and not to pursue it? Or perhaps I'm thinking of someone else. Anyway...good for you. Hope it brings you more closure/peace if you decide to pursue it further.

I do not recognize either of those posters. I do recall talking about annulment, the difficulty and expense of the process and being asked for and sending people to the articles which I found helpful.

I had the wrong poster in regards to the annulment process. There was a whole discussion on it a year ago in (ScottB's Annulment Discussion) but it was wayfarer who weighed in against it saying he was wasting his time (ScottB Annulment Discussion - Wayfarer Post #2930749), not you.

[kml]

My friend is going to try Hinge, I didn’t realize it had the option to put video answers up? Interesting.

She told me she feels like answering the prompts is like “doing homework”, lol.
What I used to like about OKCupid was the long list of questions about values and lifestyles. They would compare your answers to others and give you a compatibility score. I found this super useful. If someone had a 90% compatibility score there was an excellent chance I would at least consider them dateable. Somebody with a 30% score would always be an obvious mismatch. But I imagine OKCupid is probably considered old fashioned these days , and therefore might be full of people who don’t keep up with the times?

As for the annulment - as an ex-Catholic myself, I understand your feelings - sort of. I would have had excellent grounds for annulment myself (sleeping with another woman the night before our wedding!). But I personally wouldn’t have felt honest about an annulment (not that I care). Despite the difficulties, our long marriage was real. Declaring it not a real marriage seems dishonest to me. Like a loophole. On the other hand, that’s easy for me to say since I no longer feel bound to the church. And I have a clear conscience about my marriage, which I fought long and hard for. I don’t plan to marry again, but if I did, I’m sure God wouldn’t judge me for it.

[dunnm]

.

It's not safe.

When people disappear without explanation from the folks making that happen, it makes the rest of us wonder when the axe will fall next, or if we'll be the next to be expunged, or even what it is we may or may not say to turn the delete button onto us. How is that creating a feeling of safety?

That's a great way to create a feeling of walking on eggshells waiting for the other shoe to fall.

We all came here to save our marriages.

A very scant few of us were successful at that.

Hopefully, the majority of us were at least successful in saving ourselves, and made some strong relationships with other posters in the process.

There are some great vets here who no longer post.

WHY?

There are some people who have been here 5-10 years, who are posting less and less often.

WHY?

A 'never explain' attitude is exceptionally short-sighted, if one is concerned about the over-all well-being of these boards and the people posting, especially the newbies.

Leads one to believe that TPTB really don't care.

Again, that doesn't lead to a feeling of safety.

So, sorry 40, I heartily disagree with you.

[dunnm]

Agree wholeheartedly bttrfly

[dunnm]

Good on you for stepping up on Newcomers

Big thank you deserved from the few left

[Rockon]

Hi BF how are you doing?

[bttrfly]

Hi BF how are you doing?

Hi Rock, thanks for checking in. I'm doing well, thanks.

[HaWho]

Great to catch up on your life. Sounds like some interest percolating in Sportsguy!

And of course it was so great to read the nice piece about your son being so grounded.

Nice job Mama,

[bttrfly]

Great to catch up on your life. Sounds like some interest percolating in Sportsguy!

And of course it was so great to read the nice piece about your son being so grounded.

Nice job Mama,

thanks babe! was a long and difficult road. I take nothing for granted and am grateful for every single day. his gf is a doll, and has really helped a lot. He sees a future for himself that he didn't see before. More work to do but he's getting there.

He just surprised my by stopping by with the snowplow to shovel my steps and plow the driveway. What a great kid!

Stuff with Sportsguy is moving along. He's traveling a crazy amount this month for work, then will have ALLL the down time for 6 months. We chat or text a couple times a week. Nothing serious. Appropriate for the amount of time we've known each other which is basically a minute.

There have been some other funny OLD experiences. I'm not putting all my eggs in the Sportsguy basket this early in the game. It's all just part of the healing process of re-building my life post-D. You start to communicate with someone and very quickly there's either a connection or you see exactly why they're on a dating site in their 50s or 60s. I take it all with a grain of salt and see the humor in it. Thinking what great open mic material. That might be in my future

Ha, when you get to the place where you don't have to have any contact with the ex because the kids are past that point, adults and done with college ... man, it's great! I never wanted a divorce, fought hard to save my marriage, but have to say I'm more at peace now than ever, and grateful we're 7000 miles apart and have separate lives. Our contact is rare, and happily civil these days.

It does make me sad sometimes that we spent more than half our lives together and this is where we're at, but acceptance is the key to mental freedom.

That said, acceptance is key, but there are things one doesn't have to accept at all - ex. I absolutely refuse to accept being replaced like a leased vehicle. That's on him. Not me. People aren't objects.

Finding these days that's it's all about my state of mind.

So great to "see" you Ha!!! Stay in touch xoxoxo

[Cadet]

I realize, Cadet, that you're acting as a Moderator. I appreciate what you do. The questions, however, remain.

And, frankly, given the amount of divorced people who stick around here to help the newcomers learn the Divorce Busting principles?? I think the questions deserve an answer for those people.

I think that this is a better place to have this discussion.

Not on the thread of the announcement.

You know right now (and this is true) I am making a stew in my slow cooker.
You get out of it what you put in.

DB is going to give you what you put into it.
It is true that I am acting as a moderator and the truth is that I have learned so much on this forum.

I was divorced against my will and did everything I could possibly do to save my marriage.

I learned lots of things here and felt the need to pay it back.

Do we have a crystal ball.
NOPE.

We all go through different stages of life and how we deal with those stages is what is important.
The only way to avoid some of these stages is to stop living, I don't suggest that method.

We all have to keep taking one step forward, one day at a time.

[bttrfly]

I realize, Cadet, that you're acting as a Moderator. I appreciate what you do. The questions, however, remain.

And, frankly, given the amount of divorced people who stick around here to help the newcomers learn the Divorce Busting principles?? I think the questions deserve an answer for those people.

I think that this is a better place to have this discussion.

Cadet. I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and all you've contributed to this board and to me personally over the years. I thank you for the advice you've given me, the guidance and support at the worst time in my life. You and Job helped me immeasurably when I could barely breathe through the pain. Job - that poor woman! I know I must have given her fits, yet God bless her, she stuck by me as I struggled, and she never gave up on me. I don't think the words "thank you" are at all adequate, but they are all I have to give, other than to follow both of your generous examples and try to help those who came after me the way you both helped me.

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this issue further.

Not on the thread of the announcement.

Lately people don't seem to be answering posters questions in their threads so the thread of the announcement seemed the best option to at least get a conversation started. Thank you for not only participating, but also continuing the conversation.

You know right now (and this is true) I am making a stew in my slow cooker.

And why are you not sharing the recipe with me??

You get out of it what you put in.

Yes. And I've put quite a lot of myself into this place, as have we all, which is why I'm concerned about the future treatment of divorced posters.

DB is going to give you what you put into it.

Sure DB principles can and should be used in all areas of our lives. For example, some of us have exemplified that when confronted on the boards. Others have not.

Again, DB is going to give you what you put into it - wise words OP. It is also going to show you where you need to focus in order to grow.

It is true that I am acting as a moderator and the truth is that I have learned so much on this forum.

I was divorced against my will and did everything I could possibly do to save my marriage.

I learned lots of things here and felt the need to pay it back.

Do we have a crystal ball.
NOPE.

We all go through different stages of life and how we deal with those stages is what is important.
The only way to avoid some of these stages is to stop living, I don't suggest that method.

We all have to keep taking one step forward, one day at a time.

I can only speak for myself. While I was married and desperately trying to save my marriage I did not come to the post-D section of the boards. Even thinking about a post-D life was enough to send me spinning and hyperventilating into a panic attack. I have asked others who say the same, so to my mind concern about newcomers visiting this section and being put off by the site is not really all that valid an argument.

Newcomers have enough on their minds -- I think the post-D section isn't even on their radar until much later in their journey(s).

But then I became one of "those" people - divorced. Still I avoided this section of the boards for a long, long time because I judged myself as a failure. I hadn't saved my marriage, and for this over-achiever failure was never an option. It's not something I frankly have a lot of practice in, so it doesn't sit well, at all.

But I finally realized that I had to embrace the truth of my life - my marriage failed. I was divorced, and I still needed support because I had absolutely no idea what to do next with this unwanted freedom. So I tentatively came to the post-D side, where I was welcomed with open arms by people who were also trying to figure out the answer to the scary, "Now what?" question.

Which brings me to my main question: as a divorced poster, what are we allowed to post about?

For example, will we get banned if we post about adventures in online or other types of dating?

An argument could be made that dating is against standing for one's marriage. You know, the marriage that our spouses lit on fire on their way out the door.

Another argument could be made that dating is the perfect place to practice the DB principles we've learned.

Which is allowed?

I saw the post which got LH banned. He didn't say anything that most of us haven't said before. In fact, his post was a lot milder in tone than another poster's. That person is still here, yet LH is gone. Not one person seemed to take into account that all the people on that particular discussion were triggered because every one of those men had some version of that done to them by their wives as well. Where was the compassion for those posters in that decision to ban someone? I remember the days when a discussion like that allowed the people involved an opportunity for healing, growth and, most importantly, afforded the newcomer an opportunity to learn.

Those posts were deleted.

A poster who helped a lot of people was silenced.

The opportunity for healing, growth and learning was squashed.

Questions were asked, yet no answers were given.

I'm not bringing this up to add to the "Where's LH" question.

I am bringing it up because I'd like to make sure that doesn't happen again to someone else, specifically me.

Look, this is not my board. If I had a board at all it would be on one of those funky groups that begins with an R or an F. The rules here are not mine to make, they are simply mine to follow. I'd like to follow them. I'd also like some clear parameters for discussions after divorce.

All well and good to say, "Follow the DB principles" - talking about dating isn't pro marriage. It's something else - it's post-marriage. So ... is dating talk welcome, or is the view that if you're divorced then that's it. Your one shot at a partnership is over, done and you need to be alone for the rest of your life and talk about potentially finding love again or even just companionship is unwelcome.

BTW Cadet, don't forget the bay leaf ... and yes, 'preview reply' was utilized in creating this post. You and Job have taught me well..

[Mach1]

Just when I thought I was done....

Y'all drag me back...

As anyone that's been here for a while knows....I've been here a long time. Possibly too long.

I was gone for a while, and found myself back, looking for someone that I lost.

Yet, along the way, I realized that I was losing "me" too.

Lost in the daily readings of posters, the drama, the pain of the newer people, the trying to remember what worked for me when I was first here.

This site is a "safe" haven for many of the long time posters. Everyone that has been drug through the mud will eventually gravitate back when they feel the pull, or have a situation in their life that they need to refresh themselves. Getting back to basic DB101 often involves a stroll down misery lane..

And I also have said how much this place has changed, and isn't the same as it was then. There seems to be a lack of Empathy, and seemingly only one route that a poster should take in their plight.

What is often forgotten, and seemingly been a topic of contention lately is....."Do what works"

For me, what is lacking is the ability to "see" the situation for what it is. When that happens, the advice tends to be "cookie cutter" and the individualism is removed. The advice leans toward trying to get the poster to "fit" within a system instead of the system being flexible, and adapting to each poster as a person.

Within that, what is removed is, "do what works"....

I was involved with the recently banned poster's last post. I KNOW what it said, and while I may not have agreed with it, what was lost from it's removal and subsequent banning of the poster was a discussion that COULD have been a learning experience for anyone lurking, or even possibly posting. That has always been the beauty of this safe place. A place where there could be differences of opinion, and still work through them, and find a workable balance ...FROM THIS DAY FORWARD. I grew more from the conflict, than I ever did through peace.....

Which is exactly the foundation that this site has , or supposedly has, been built on...

How is that different from the relationship/marriage that has failed and we are looking for a better way ?

How is that different from a WAS ? When something happens, you just walk away from it ??

Seems the textbook definition of hypocrisy to me....

And when/if/not likely gonna happen someone can explain that to me ? Then this site will once again make sense.

And please don't waste time telling me that the site has the right to ban/limit/censor anything that deemed necessary. Working through conflict is the premise that this site has always worked toward. And if we -as people supposedly bettering ourselves- cannot complete that task ? WHY are we here professing how much we have learned in our process ????

IRL, we cannot simply "ban" away our conflicts....life doesn't work that way....


Cadet, you said that you get back what you give, and in most instances you are correct. You and me brother, we've given a LOT, yet I have also gotten back a LOT.

So where is that line that we draw between losing our safe haven, and letting it all go ???

You and me talking here, not a "mod to a poster".....

I understand B-lady's frustration of having her safe haven changed. I would imagine that it's stemming from a place of easier control. 3 sub-forums are easier to "police" than the current number. I also feel that it is in some way the administrator is out of touch with what actually happens here, and it is a necessary "evil" because it is mentioned in the DB/DR books, that such a place exists.




So Cadet.....

My question is the same as B-lady's on the level of...

What happens to the archives, and the years of pain and really good threads during this transformation ??

Will they still exist ??

Will they be accessible for reference material ??

If not, then this site and it's formerly wonderful history has been lost....

And I sincerely hope that isn't the case....







Newer posters, take the time to go back and read the archives....



Starsky309 / puppydogtails

Coach

Forrestgump

MrBond

Sandi

Jack_3_Beans

Bworl

Ericmsant

Truegritter

Lostforwords

Cat04

AmyC


Those will/can serve you well.....





If this should be my last post, I wish you all well....

[Rockon]

Since BD, I have been very much needing, craving and searching for the real: community, honesty, raw especially raw and real from compassionate, kind and thoughtful people. The provision and moderation of these forums have facilitated such a space and it is the generous and vulnerable (and at times blunt) participation of the members - you and I with lived and living experiences - that makes it such a safe, trustworthy refuge to come to when I am in need of support and don’t get it yet again.

These concepts and practices are not widely disseminated in our culture.

[job]

bttrfly,

I may be setting myself up to be flamed, but I'm going to address some of the issues that have come up since the "big" announcement. Because I am also involved in creating a new look for this Board.

The Board has looked the same since 1999. It's time to update the Board. There are some forums that are not used but once or twice a year, if that. I have put forth the question of possibly merging them together under a new title or archiving them.

As for Surviving the Big D, it needed a fresh look and/or archived. Current posters are more than welcome to post on the new forum. No one has said that you can't. It will be used to for discussions on how to move forward from a divorce and the difficulties posters face when moving forward/on as well as any other topic that is related to the mission of the Board. The new posters want to read about our trials and tribulations while we navigated the post divorce process. They want to read and learn from us, especially those that have successfully moved forward with their lives.

I will address the questions that have come up about archiving. Yes, there will be archiving. As far as I am aware, the archived forums/threads will still be available for reading, copying and linking into current threads for referencing. As far as posting to them, I'm waiting for more details. If, at some point, that Board needs to delete all of them due to mainframe space, posters will be given ample time to copy them for future reference. This is the same practice that we have used in the past when it comes to cleaning up the Board, generally in the late spring/early summer.

As for threads disappearing...if a poster requests that threads be totally deleted, then we delete them. If a poster wants them hidden, we put them in a safe place. (As I recall, you have requested that we do this to some of your threads in the past and they are still safely tucked away, per your request.) There have been a couple of times when the mainframe has had issues, in the past, and things got deleted, but we would never intentionally delete threads unless we are requested to do so.

As for the notifiy and edit buttons, the people behind the scenes are still trying to fix them. We don't have any control over those issues. All that we can do is keep reminding them that they need to be fixed.

As I told you in a private message last week, you will not be banned and/or moderated. Why are you so concerned about being banned? Are you posting or planning to post things that would be the subject of banning? I would stop worrying about being banned and continue posting, if this is what you want to do. If posters follow the Board's rules/policies and stick to what the mission is, I don't see any problems.

As for the incident with LH, that is between LH and Michele. It is not up to the moderators to tell posters what happened. If LH wants to tell you, then he can, i.e., I believe he is on other social media outlets and is in contact with people who post here. Banning posters is not a new process. It has been used over the years by the Administrator and the posters were not told why. It just happened.

bttrfly, you asked about dating discussions. Here is my humble opinion, I wouldn't discuss it too much. I wouldn't mention dating sites that posters are visiting, since they are not directly related to divorcebusting. I wouldn't mention conquests, i.e., how many dates before having sex, etc. Some of what has been posted should remain personal and not shared here. Would you go out on another social media platform and announce how many dates you went on before having sex? I would hope not! How is sharing a poster's conquests mission related to Divorcebusting? Yes, some of the posters have become friends and tend to forget that we are not on a private site, whereby we are not the only ones that can see what is posted. If posters want to discuss other dating sites or what they did or did not accomplish in finding someone on a dating site, they may want to consider becoming members of "dating forums" out on the web that discuss all of this or go to another social media platform and set up a group, whereby they are free to discuss all of their dating concerns/issues. Just my two cents.

Is the Board safe? Well, it is as safe as any social media outlet can be. However, because it is wide open for people from all around the world to read, I strongly suggest that you not post TMI. There have been times when angry spouses/partners have figured out where we are posting and come here and read, copy and print off info to be used by their lawyers when it comes to separation and divorce situations. Even secured platforms can be hacked from time to time. Even other platforms have the authority to censure what is being discussed and/or banning posters.

For the last year, we have been lenient with posters when it comes to posting other sites, the language and discussion topics. However, with the Board getting a fresh look, we will be going back to editing language, deleting links and identifying other sites that are deleted unless they are directly related to Divorcebusting in some way.

Posters tend to forget that this is a spinoff of Michele's business and she is the one calling the shots when it comes to whether or not we have permission to post here. When we requested a UserId/password, we agreed to follow the Board's rules/policies. We are very lucky that she does not charge a membership fee like other Boards do.

BTW, I hope that one day, Michele will write another book and include more topics that the posters are concerned about.

Here is my final take on the changes that are going to take place, each and every one of us has the freedom of choice, we can either leave or stay and see what happens when the new changes take place. I would hope that posters will stay and continue to provide sage advice and/or guidance to the newbies. However, if you wish to leave, I want to wish each of you the very best. Many of you have been here a very long time and have accomplished so much. You have given sage advice/guidance over the years. Even though you may not have saved your marriage, you saved yourself. Be proud of what you have accomplished.

No, bttrly, I have not taught you well. You did that all on your own.

[bttrfly]

bttrfly,

I may be setting myself up to be flamed, but I'm going to address some of the issues that have come up since the "big" announcement. Because I am also involved in creating a new look for this Board.

I appreciate your posting, Job. I would hope that after almost 8 years of posting here, you would know by now that I would not flame you, nor would I intentionally flame anyone else. I hope that other posters would refrain as well. You've spent an incredible amount of time here over the years helping others. That in and of itself deserves respect from me and everyone else here.

The Board has looked the same since 1999. It's time to update the Board. There are some forums that are not used but once or twice a year, if that. I have put forth the question of possibly merging them together under a new title or archiving them.

I think this paragraph would pretty much get close to unanimous agreement from the peanut gallery.

As for Surviving the Big D, it needed a fresh look and/or archived. Current posters are more than welcome to post on the new forum. No one has said that you can't. It will be used to for discussions on how to move forward from a divorce and the difficulties posters face when moving forward/on as well as any other topic that is related to the mission of the Board. The new posters want to read about our trials and tribulations while we navigated the post divorce process. They want to read and learn from us, especially those that have successfully moved forward with their lives.

That's great! After a 26 year plus relationship in my case, and longer for other people, safe to say things are a lot different than the last time most of us was single. Add kids into the mix ... still having to deal with exes around custody issues, finances, home maintenance, car repair - yeah, it can be quite daunting to try to figure it all out on your own.

Even the simple act of reading that someone survived it all and is now thriving gives the rest of us hope, especially on our most difficult days. I'm glad that's not going away.

I will address the questions that have come up about archiving. Yes, there will be archiving. As far as I am aware, the archived forums/threads will still be available for reading, copying and linking into current threads for referencing. As far as posting to them, I'm waiting for more details. If, at some point, that Board needs to delete all of them due to mainframe space, posters will be given ample time to copy them for future reference. This is the same practice that we have used in the past when it comes to cleaning up the Board, generally in the late spring/early summer.

I can't say this with 100% certainty, but the threads I've sent people to are all generally already locked down, so no one can (or should) be posting to them. The way I use them is as a reference point if I think there's a similar situation in newcomers that a poster would benefit from reading. Sometimes, as you know, several of us can say the same thing to a Newcomer, and it seems to fall on deaf ears. There's nothing like reading someone's thread and seeing your own story there, complete with advice given, taken, ignored and results. Those threads are DB gold, imho, so I hope there is a way to archive them.

As for threads disappearing...if a poster requests that threads be totally deleted, then we delete them. If a poster wants them hidden, we put them in a safe place. (As I recall, you have requested that we do this to some of your threads in the past and they are still safely tucked away, per your request.) There have been a couple of times when the mainframe has had issues, in the past, and things got deleted, but we would never intentionally delete threads unless we are requested to do so.

Yes, I am aware of that. It's not clear that everyone was, although stating that here is great for clarification purposes. I still have no idea why someone couldn't see a post we all saw then was able to see it later, but that's tangential to this issue.

BTW, thanks again for moving my threads to the safe place. Please delete all of my threads; that should help clear up some space for archiving.

As for the notify and edit buttons, the people behind the scenes are still trying to fix them. We don't have any control over those issues. All that we can do is keep reminding them that they need to be fixed.

You have been a true voice in the wilderness on this one for a long, long time Job. I appreciate that you are still trying to get that fixed and understand your frustration that it's taking so long.

As I told you in a private message last week, you will not be banned and/or moderated. Why are you so concerned about being banned? Are you posting or planning to post things that would be the subject of banning?

I agree completely that no one owes me or anyone else an explanation for why LH or anyone else is banned. There's no denying, however, that when someone disappears, it can be unnerving to the people who remain. When questions are asked about it by a lot of people and not answered in a reasonable timeframe, people tend to get more nervous. That's Organizational Behavior 101.

I don't think I've posted anything that would make me face moderation or being banned, but therein lies the rub, right? I didn't think the post that got LH banned was anything different than others have said, sometimes more vehemently, in the past. Heck I remember a lot of us telling Gordie to go ahead with his move out plans. That could be construed as not being pro-Marriage, although the general consensus among those of us thinking he should leave was that his wife would get a wake up call if she got what she thought she wanted.

I remember when several of us became quite concerned about a poster's wellbeing because her spouse was exhibiting some pretty deranged behavior and we actually suggested she strongly consider ending things or at least moving them along in a legal manner so she and her children would be safe - again, not pro-Marriage statements, but safety concerns were legitimate.

It's pretty clear where the line is in Newcomers and MLC; to me that line can get blurry post-D. So, while I may think something is ok to post on the Surviving side, it may, in fact, not be. I like things to be clear. I like to know the boundaries. If I'm going to play in someone's sandbox, I don't want to unintentionally kick sand in their face or be disrespectful. I hope that makes my concerns more clear.

I would stop worrying about being banned and continue posting, if this is what you want to do. If posters follow the Board's rules/policies and stick to what the mission is, I don't see any problems.

As for the incident with LH, that is between LH and Michele. It is not up to the moderators to tell posters what happened. If LH wants to tell you, then he can, i.e., I believe he is on other social media outlets and is in contact with people who post here. Banning posters is not a new process. It has been used over the years by the Administrator and the posters were not told why. It just happened.

bttrfly, you asked about dating discussions. Here is my humble opinion, I wouldn't discuss it too much. I wouldn't mention dating sites that posters are visiting, since they are not directly related to divorcebusting.

I have done so and will not in the future. That's a point of clarification I was looking for. Thank you.

I wouldn't mention conquests, i.e., how many dates before having sex, etc.

um, Job ... this is Bttrfly you're talking too ... I wouldn't discuss my sex life here even if I had one! That's private, and while people may have some concerns about that part of post-D life, there ought to be other places to get those concerns addressed.

Some of what has been posted should remain personal and not shared here.

I have been embarrassed by what some people have posted. I do not judge them for it, but it's not something I would personally ever be comfortable discussing.

Would you go out on another social media platform and announce how many dates you went on before having sex? I would hope not!

Well according to most people here my views on the subject of sex are at best archaic, so to answer your question - - no. I wouldn't answer that IRL, much less online.

How is sharing a posters conquests mission related to Divorcebusting? Yes, some of the posters have become friends and tend to forget that we are not on a private site, whereby we are not the only ones that can see what is posted. If posters want to discuss other dating sites or what they did or did not accomplish in finding someone on a dating site, they may want to consider becoming members of "dating forums" out on the web that discuss all of this or go to another social media platform and set up a group, whereby they are free to discuss all of their dating concerns/issues Just my two cents.

Good to know. I believe I've violated some of that by talking about deciding to join OLD for a three month period, my screening process (which all but one person thought was too stringent - thanks KML for understanding my thought process on the swipe left rules of BF), and some of the experiences I've had there. I will not discuss those topics again.

Is the Board safe? Well, it is as safe as any social media outlet can be. However, because it is wide open for people from all around the world to read, I strongly suggest that you not post TMI. There have been times when angry spouses/partners have figured out where we are posting and come here and read, copy and print off info to be used by their lawyers when it comes to separation and divorce situations. Even secured platforms can be hacked from time to time. Even other platforms have the authority to censure what is being discussed and/or banning posters.

I would respectfully expand the definition of safety in the following way: when someone disappears, and people don't expect it, it can be shocking. It inevitably leads to questions. Some of those questions should remain unanswered for privacy reasons, but to say nothing tends to make already skittish people uneasy. That's the level of safety which could be addressed perhaps in a more proactive way.

Look, we don't arrive here skipping onto the boards whistling a happy tune while tossing rose petals into the air. We come here traumatized. Doesn't take a whole lot to trigger a newcomer. Sometimes things happen that can blindside even a vet and trigger them. That happened to me just this morning IRL, in fact, and brought me to tears as I cycled through sadness, grief, a sense of betrayal and wondering why there was no opportunity given to discuss something before being cut off. Stuff happens, is my point. This doesn't mean everyone needs to know "why" --- but timing is everything. A simple, quick post initiated at the time of the ban saying "It was an executive decision, which is between the poster and the admin" would I think have alleviated a lot of the subsequent concerns. Timely communication is key, I think, tempered with sensitivity and compassion. There are ways to set limits with a gentle touch for people who are feeling vulnerable. Surely we who have been here a while should use situations like this one as an opportunity to practice the DB techniques we preach. Just my humble post-mortem on that particular situation.

For the last year, we have been lenient with posters when it comes to posting other sites, the language and discussion topics. However, with the Board getting a fresh look, we will be going back to editing language, deleting links and identifying other sites that are deleted unless they are directly related to Divorcebusting in some way.

Posters tend to forget that this is a spinoff of Michele's business and she is the one calling the shots when it comes to whether or not we have permission to post here. When we requested a UserId/password, we agreed to follow the Board's rules/policies. We are very lucky that she does not charge a membership fee like other Boards do.

BTW, I hope that one day, Michele will write another book and include more topics that the posters are concerned about.

Here is my final take on the changes that are going to take place, each and every one of us has the freedom of choice, we can either leave or stay and see what happens when the new changes take place. I would hope that posters will stay and continue to provide sage advice and/or guidance to the newbies. However, if you wish to leave, I want to wish each of you the very best. Many of you have been here a very long time and have accomplished so much. You have given sage advice/guidance over the years. Even though you may not have saved your marriage, you saved yourself. Be proud of what you have accomplished.

No, bttrly, I have not taught you well. You did that all on your own.

Job, someone had to lead the way to show the rest of us the path. You more than anyone else did that for me, and I'm grateful.

[job]

bttrfly,

Please remember that some of what I posted yesterday are just my opinions on certain subjects. My response yesterday was me wearing two hats, i.e., moderator and long time poster. BTW, I am not pointing fingers at anyone. We all have strayed from the mission of the Board one time or another. We get caught up in each other's lives and come to catch up with our friends and newbies and tend to forget that we are not sitting in a cafe, bistro, etc. We tend to forget that the Board is not a "secured" one whereby only the members can see what is posted.

I can assure all that no one person makes the "management" decisions around here. All three moderators, Administrator and Michele discuss whatever the issue/situation is and then Michele will make the final decision.

As for deleting your threads that are tucked away. I'm going to leave them for a bit. If you want them archived, I can move them over when the time comes. There are a lot of "pearls of wisdom" in them.

Like you, I came here many years ago...looking for answers and to compare notes with the posters. I did a lot of research and came back here and shared what I had learned along the way. My divorce was finalized in 2002, and like many of the old timers, I opted to stay and pay it forward whenever possible.

After many years, we had lost a number of our moderators, so I stepped up to the plate to offer my time to the Board because I felt I owed a lot of what I learned to this place and to the people who were here and have since left to live their lives to the fullest in the real world.

I don't post as often as I should, but I do a lot of reading and saying "yes" to the postings. It's a new day and we all have so much to look forward to. Spring is just around the corner which means new beginnings.

Each and every poster that is currently on this Board, go to a mirror and look at yourself and say "I am worthy and I am a good, kind person. I will do my very best each and every day."

Each and every poster is a success story in their own way. I have watched so many come and go and am so proud of all of them. They came here broken, confused, angry, etc., and when they healed, they because such beautiful people once more, i.e., very much like the life cycle of a butterfly.

[bttrfly]

I would prefer my threads be deleted, thank you.

There is information there which may make it easy to find me IRL and I'd rather not have that readily available.

Thank you.

[bttrfly]

^^^ referring to the threads you've archived, to be clear.

[Cadet]

^^^ referring to the threads you've archived, to be clear.

No that was not too clear.

[bttrfly]

I'm pretty busy here right now, and know you're all working hard on getting the new site up so I wanted to quickly post to delete those specific threads to give you more archive room while you were working on it. I did not have the time to quote the paragraph in Job's previous post. I thought that since it has the blue arrow in the yellow subject line, you would see the previous post I was referring too.

All in all, no worries Cadet. Consider it my contribution to freeing up valuable server space for the archives.

Job, while those observations are your personal opinion, they do offer the kind of guidelines I was looking for with regards to appropriate posts for helping people navigate a post-D existence. (Un?)fortunately, a big part of post-D existence is the reality of new relationships, how to meet new people, as well as how to deal with dating in the present, which apparently is a whole lot different than it used to be. While some topics are perhaps better addressed on other sites, that's a whole big, scary mess to a lot of folks and it's natural to turn to the people we've shared a virtual foxhole with since BD/finding this place. I do believe the skills learned here translate and can only help future relationships of all kinds, not merely romantic ones.

[bttrfly]

testing the edit button for Cadet ...