My Story P6: The rise of the Eagle 2.0

Divorcebusting.com

Link to my previous threads:

1/ - DivorceBusting.com (My Story P1...Survival of the MLC Madness)
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2904612#Post2904612

2/ My Story P2...Acceptance of the MLC Madness - DivorceBusting.com
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2918764#Post2918764

3/ My Story P3...Acceptance of the MLC Madness - DivorceBusting.com
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2923530

4/ My Story P4...Acceptance of the MLC Madness - DivorceBusting.com
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2928892

5/ My Story P5...Saying goodbye to the MLC Madness - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2931559#Post2931559

Short summary:

BD April 2019 with the famous ILYBNILWY.

Started an affair a few weeks before that timing. Immediately found out. Lying, spewing, rewriting of history, wanting both of us, etc. until I kicked him out 09/2019. Came back 2 months later, totally broken. (way too soon)

Final break-up with OW1 02/2020.

Home from 02/2020 until 08/2020. Deep outward depression, first signs of acknowledgement that something is really wrong with him. Still shows a lot of running behavior such as drinking heavily.

Accepts new job abroad since 04/2020, working from home since COVID, asked him to leave for the other country in 08/2020 since behavior is extremely bad for myself and my 3 boys, all teenagers.

From 09/2020 until 12/2020 slightly showing improvement whilst abroad, new running behavior...working out (sports) to an extreme level.

As from 12/2020 clear set-back into tunnel, start of OW2 but denies it.

01/2021 to 11/2021: In January he informs me that OW1 passed away (suicide), also asked for divorce, I agree. Still lives abroad and has R with OW2, denies the R until 09/2021.

Clinging towards me and the boys remains present at all times.

10/2021 until 02/2022: Break-up with OW2 in November, returns home, starts doing some work on himself and suddenly set back in tunnel again.

02/2022: Goes back to OW2. I finally let go in full. divorce final.No contact anymore with me nor with the kids. House is for sale. I’m done.

06/2022: Rock-bottom has been reached abroad during a trip with a friend. As from that time slowly improving contact with family and kids.

09/2022: "Final" break-up with OW, turns out she is pregnant, still reconnecting, now with me as well.

Today: still reconnecting

DnJ,

Seems I can't add my link to this thread anymore in the previous one since already closed. Is this correct?

Don't know if this is a problem.

Eagle

Originally Posted by bttrfly

This is also someone who has shown through word, and much more importantly, deed that he is capable of behaviors that are pretty toxic.
Maybe it's just me, but I would carry a hefty bag of healthy skepticism along for the ride on all dates, and try to be as detached as possible.
Again, I would pay more attention to what he does rather than what he says.
Look for consistency.

Respect for sharing your opinion. Thanks for that.
I fully agree that he has been extremely toxic, in all meaning of this word. But as I stated, I can surprisingly be very detached.

Can he turn the other way around again? For sure, and definitely with the consequences for his actions over the past years which are all to the surface now and which he is dealing with.
He is very much struggling with these. Admitting and also seeing with my own eyes he almost doesn't sleep, his appetite being reduced to a minimum, difficulties coming out of the bed in the morning etc.

Something however which is really very odd is that indeed his words didn’t align his actions these past years, he made a lot of promises but never did anything about it, now this is mostly aligned and when it is not, it’s strange enough the other way around. His actions are now always better than what he actually says.

I don’t know if this is normal but this is actually the case these past 2 months.

Originally Posted by Mach1

Most MLCers that I have talked to, have come back with HARD pursuit trying to get back their life, and I'm just not getting that sense from what you have typed. I see pieces of him pursuing, albeit very timidly and scared. That tells me that he wants it if it is easy for him. There has been an abundance of LBS that have gotten to this point and decided that their answers didn't involve the MLCer too. One of the reasons that we have always said that the LBS holds all of the power in the end.

Mach, you can certainly be right about this, but when you're in the middle of it you unfortunately don't always see this...therefore I need your help in understanding this better. I'm also not a native English speaking person so sometimes a bit more difficult in understanding everything in a correct way.

Indeed, I do not yet have the feeling that he is pushing very hard, but what should I see as pushing?

He does the utmost for his children, and also with me. He constantly puts me first for everything right now. Not always in words, but always in deeds.
I can give many examples such as going to the store and always asking if I need anything else, making my favorite dishes, being very attentive, organizing the dates,...
Is this what you mean by pushing?

Or is pushing for you wanting to be part of everything again, e.g. with family, friends etc… if you mean this, no, that is absolutely not the case. He now mainly wants to be alone with me, or with the children, the rest doesn't really matter I have the impression, apart from his grandmother, he goes there every week now. For the rest he is mainly at home and at work 2 days a week.

Why I wasn't really occupied with that is because I read a lot that when an MLC'er returns from the tunnel, it's with "a whisper of doubt", that you have to be very careful with them in that phase, but you tell me that they strive very hard. That's inconsistent and I'd like to know why. Can you explain this to me?

Furthermore, last Friday he said that he has caused damage that he cannot undo anymore in the last 5 to 6 years of his life and that he does not understand why he did this at all. He also told me that he was always convinced that he was the stronger of the 2 of us, and that I followed him in everything he did. But now he came to the conclusion that this was never the case and that I even got stronger and more consistent, how I'm in control and living my life the way I want to, that I'm now the person he's always wanted to be. Apparantly this is very shocking for him to have to face this.

Originally Posted by Eagle3

Seems I can't add my link to this thread anymore in the previous one since already closed. Is this correct?

Yes, once a thread is closed, further posting to it is not possible.

No worries, I added a link to your new thread.

Good Morning Eagle

Originally Posted by Eagle3

I'm also not a native English speaking person so sometimes a bit more difficult in understanding everything in a correct way.

Indeed, I do not yet have the feeling that he is pushing very hard, but what should I see as pushing?

Pushing. Pursuing.

Pushing is moving something or someone out of your way.

Pursuing is going after something or someone; striving for it, working/doing to achieve it/them.

Pushing hard for something, pursuing hard - semantic differences. However, it’s the assertiveness that one displays, their driving force behind them, their motivation. That’s the pursuing hard.

Originally Posted by Eagle3

Why I wasn't really occupied with that is because I read a lot that when an MLC'er returns from the tunnel, it's with "a whisper of doubt", that you have to be very careful with them in that phase, but you tell me that they strive very hard. That's inconsistent and I'd like to know why. Can you explain this to me?

They awaken with a whisper of doubt. Their rise up, is like how they descended into the abyss - slowly. Whispers upon whispers pointing out their life and choices. Eventually, if not ran from and ignored, those whispers become a chorus. For a MLCer fortunate enough to listen and hear that, they can find their path back.

Whisper of doubt displays a desire towards reconnection. Pursuing hard displays a desire towards reconciliation. Just further down the path, more or less.

When reconnecting, when the whispers are still doubts and questions, the MLCer is timid and very scared of judgement. Their path is still about them. It’s their judgement of self, well actually it’s their forgiveness of self. They are so very very scared of not being forgiven for the monstrous deeds they’ve done.

The LBS who is present in the MLCer’s life, can and does influence the way. Basically, the MLCer sees their betrayed spouse demonstrating acceptance and compassion towards them, things the MLCer feels they do not deserve. Such nonjudgemental actions lead to themselves believing in their own healing and worth.

The path of out of their darkness is twisted and difficult. And is possible.

When G first showed some signs of awakening, he easily ran back to his running stage. The further down his path he gets from awakening, the further it is to run back, and the less pull “running” has upon him.

Like before, there is little one do can speed this up. An LBS trying to get answers or hurry things along will certainly delay/derail the MLCer. Consider it took about two years from trigger to BD. It takes similar from awakening to acceptance. And then a settling in period to final acceptance, where the MLCer truly closes the door to their crisis.

Dig for patience.

D

Hi Eagle, thanks for sharing and responding to me in your previous thread. It sounds like there are a lot of positives in the last couple of months. It also sounds like it must be difficult to see G dealing with the fall out of his actions, as you say he is unwell, feeling extremely guilty, and not eating or sleeping. Is he going to counseling or considering it?

I notice in your timeline that you say he hit "rock bottom" in 6/22 during a trip with his friends. How do you know that was rock bottom for him? Is that how G reported it?

Eagle,
The best advice I can give you is to take the time to read the posts of people who re-connected with their spouses.

Mach1 can probably give you a list of names.

It's really important to tread softly at this stage, because everything I've read indicates that this is the hardest part of the entire thing.

Start with Westo's.

It depends on what aspect you want to read about when I list people that have reconciled....

Men come back softer, while most Women typically pursue hard when they finally know what they want.

So some of the stories will lead in different directions however they all end up around the same place.

Some are MLC, some are QLC, or almost WA......

From the LBS side of pursuit....

AmyC
Mirage/Spirit
KristaRN
Sandi
Smartcookie
Crazyville

From the reconciliation

Rollercoasterrider (1000 ships)
Jack_3_Beans
MyFavoriteWeirdo
Faithful H
Denver
Crimson
Yellowrose
Ericmsant2
BrandNewDay
Mr Bond
Coach, (who's spouses name was Greek, who also posted here)
Starsky309 / Chocolateeyes/PuppyDogTails (same guy)
LaBug
TenBusRider

I'm sure there are more that I can't think of. Many "touch and go" scenarios.

Caliguy
Lostforwords

Originally Posted by Eagle

He does the utmost for his children, and also with me. He constantly puts me first for everything right now. Not always in words, but always in deeds.
I can give many examples such as going to the store and always asking if I need anything else, making my favorite dishes, being very attentive, organizing the dates,...
Is this what you mean by pushing?

Typically, they come back in the order that they left.

Honestly though ?

I don't see him at that point yet where he is committed to anything other than himself. I think he is trying to put some salve on some old wounds, and is still very much about him.

Now that might be guilt, it might be fear, it might be that he has nowhere else to turn right now and he knows that you are a nice fluffy landing spot for him. And that through everything else, he never really lost you. And since you had been flirting with dating, the chance of losing you made him poke his head out and make sure that he hasn't lost you.

The only thing I have to go by are his actions that you are telling us.

My instinct is that if you are putting your life on hold for "now" with him, I don't sense that he is ready for that.

To me it reads more like he is trying for a connection without the accountability of responsibility. To make sure that you are right where he left you. That there has been soooo much damage done, and you have flipped status quo and become the safe spot for him , even though he ran from you before.

If he is pursuing, it's a pretty soft attempt at it. Like he isn't completely sure, and that typically isn't good for long-term and is the main ingredient in a "touch and go".

So my question would be with that, where does HE feel that the majority of the damage has occurred ?

I could very well be wrong with it, yet that is my first instinct....

And my question remains.....

What ending are YOU working toward with this ???

One thing that I want to add ...

Yellowrose was diagnosed with cancer before her husband returned home.

So her reconciliation was fairly short before he ran again.

What her story will tell you though (if it's still here) is what a "false start" looks like.

Her Husband was shaken from the trees before his fruit was ripe, and she unfortunately passed away without him in her life....

Sending you love, Eagle.

I don't want to offer any perspective, just a hug, and support for your desire to keep your heart open.

None of us can predict what your H will do now or in the future.

I think you have been through enough that you could ask yourself this:

Would I be okay with everything that is happening in this moment if I knew H was going to leave again, and this was a false start?

The answer to that could be a guide for you for your own choices.

What you are undertaking is as impossible as surviving the MLC in the first place. You did that, and now what you are doing may end with redemption or be a false start. All you can do is decide what you want to do given that uncertainty moment by moment.

You are an amazing person, that much is clear. And I mean that on a deeper soul level and also just because you seem like someone who would be great to have as a neighbor-friend. You are funny and kind and fun and open-hearted. Gros bisous!

Hi Eagle,

I am still catching up on all that has happened with my friends on here. But I do think that what Gerda suggested above is worth contemplating. I remember reading some of the recon stories (May22, Wayfarer) and they are hard but possible. It sounds like coming back together can be just as confusing as the MLC was. Just keep your open mind and heart and watch for the green signs while still protecting your heart. If he's serious, he will be patient and continue to move towards you. You've learned a lot. Hopefully, he has too. You will be okay either way. Hugs to you!

El

Hello dear DB people,

Almost 3 months since my last post on my thread. Huh, has it been that long???

Are there reasons for that? Yes indeed, and I would like to share them with you in the first place.

Since the end of December, G and I have been seeing each other on a very regular basis as you know. (so now for about 4 months in total and this on a weekly basis together during the weekends)

I am never going to forget what I read from a woman who also posted a lot here and had developed her own website but then sadly passed away. (Not allowed to mention names I thought but you all know who I am talking about)

"Enjoy the time they threat you as a princess and that they want to date if you want of course."
But I also always knew thanks to her that this was not the end of his MLC.

So I deliberately did not write here as long as everything was going really well and we were rebuilding, I knew there was going to be a period where he still had to wrestle with some demons and come to terms with them.
In other words, fully face the consequences of his actions over the past few years, because after all, he still hadn't done that. (Yes, I reveived many many sorry's and he continuously tried to make up for it but I knew it missed something)

Also what DnJ said:

Like before, there is little one do can speed this up. An LBS trying to get answers or hurry things along will certainly delay/derail the MLCer. Consider it took about two years from trigger to BD. It takes similar from awakening to acceptance. And then a settling in period to final acceptance, where the MLCer truly closes the door to their crisis.

This moment has actually been going on since about two weeks.

But first things first, I will give you an overview of how the last 4 months went.
Since the beginning that we started seeing each other again on a regular basis, something beautiful has actually started to grow again between us. Slightly similar to when we just met but oh so much better as both he and I have changed immensely. Where he used to be the alpha and I used to rather follow and thus actually stood a bit in his shadow, this is now totally out of the question. We now treat each other as equals, which is an incredible step forward.
He is also much more attentive to what I want, he no longer puts his needs first, I have seen a very beautiful person the last few months. With struggles, of course, but one with a very good heart, who was constantly there for me and the children.

Read well though, we are still not in an official relationship today. I am not ready for that, see also above since I knew there would be a fallback, he not ready because there are things he has not yet cleared up with himself.

And I have been proven right...
Trigger. A few months ago, I shared with you that OW2 got pregnant unexpectedly, this at the age of 44. She could not have children, but got pregnant anyway.
She was understandably extremely happy that she was pregnant and decided to keep it, he totally the opposite. The relationship was already going very badly before this fact and of course they then broke up in very bad circumstances. She consciously chose to become a single mother, also lives in another country.

I have talked to G a lot about this over the past few months. I knew that EXH (MLC H) was indeed going to push this away completely and walk away from it, however, I also knew that G was never going to get this over his heart to mean nothing to that baby. The more G surfaced over the last few months, the more he talked about going to visit that baby when it was born. Today, there are only 2 people in his family who know about the existence of the baby, which are his father and myself. Both of us encouraged him to go and visit the little child. He also still had stuff from OW2 that he needed to return so that was the perfect time.

However, he put it off several times because he couldn't handle it and kept pushing it back until he found the strength, 3 weeks ago he visited them, this for 1 day.

I am keenly aware that this might be a factor that could push him in 2 directions, but it is something he had to face, otherwise he would remain stuck in his current pattern.

After his return, of course, he completey broke down again. Less open in his communication, more distant, crying, don't know how to handle things.
He did tell me a week later that this visit loosened up a lot, that he realises all the more what he did to all of us and that he can't completely ignore the little one as he had thought, that somehow he has to find a way to play a role but that he doesn't know how at all (other country so not so obvious). He is also incredibly afraid of other people's reactions, taking this news to our children and the rest of the family etc.,

How he feels about OW2? He hasn't really shared that with me yet. Logical given the relationship we've had for the last few months. Does he not want to hurt me, does he first want to be 100% sure himself how to handle everything, is he at the point where he will finally make final choices? (end of withdrawal, going into acceptance?)

The future will tell.

However, I do know what I want now. this became clear the past days, since his change in behavior again. I'm slightly afraid I will loose him again (strange feeling, haven't had this for a long time). I have felt very good with him in the last few months. I've had an incredibly nice time. If at all possible, I want to give it back a chance to rebuild something, even if it means accepting a child he has with another woman into our lives. I do love him and want him in my life, that's for sure.

Now I am letting go of him for a while. I feel he perceives it as pressure when I try to continue asking. So I consciously told him today that I am giving him space and time. He is away for a few days, all by himself so that means something.

If things turn out differently, will my heart break again? Presumably still a little bit, not completely as my heart is not yet fully open to him again, but I will get out of that too and become all the stronger.

Much love,

Eagle xxx

It takes a lot of time and patience to work towards reconciliation once again. I think that this part of the journey is the most difficult because we want them to "hurry up and get it together". It doesn't happen that way. He still has a lot of "stuff" to process. Give him plenty of space and time.

One thing to remember, he will be still testing you to see how you react to him and his behavior. Continue as you have been, i.e., as a friend. No pressure and there is a good possibility that he may keep some of the personality quirks that he had during the crisis. This particular stage could take up to 12/18 months for him to finally settle down in his new skin.

I created a thread many years ago when someone else was going through this stage. It is called TMAK - Explanation of Reconnection. Here is the link. It will help you better understand where he is at the moment.

TMAK - Explanation of Reconnection

Dig deeper for patience and just breathe! Treat him as a friend, listen to what he has to say, but do not point fingers if he slips back two steps. Above all else, whatever changes you have made, they must stay in place for this is a new relationship now.

Eagle…

Just dropping by to offer you my support. Wish I could offer you advice, but I don’t really have any but agree with what Job suggested. Hang in there and take time to breathe and support yourself.

Hugs,
El

Almost 8 weeks later, so a quick update on how things are today and what has happened over the past few weeks.

Since his first visit to the baby he has with EX-OW, G has been drawn back into his own world for a while, this at least in terms of thoughts/feelings. I clearly saw that he needed to process what was going on in his life and just continued to treat him as a friend. We did text pretty much daily, and every weekend he still came to visit as usual or we went for dinner, etc.

Meanwhile, G also bought a dog. He says this is because this way he can take care of someone again, and also has a reason now to get out of bed in the morning. The dog is really fantastic, she is sweet, affectionate and already incredibly hefty for her age. I can also really see that it gives G pleasure to have her in his life.

He is still on the same course. Quiet, friendly, helpful, this both towards the children and myself as it has been for several months now. Only his drinking behaviour is a bit more than it was again. In his mind, he wants to avoid drinking during the week, only the weekend but he recently told me honestly that he finds it difficult again to leave the booze in the evening during the week, this with the nice weather and the urge then being too strong not to have a drink anyway.

Last week, G went back abroad to visit his baby. He hesitantly, yet honestly told me this in advance. Since he went for a few days now, I was honest with him about my feelings as it didn't feel good when he told me about it. He then asked to talk about it and so we did. It was a relieve to finally be able to talk after all these weeks. We both were ready for it.

I asked him if he went purely for the little one or also for her. That the reason why I asked is the fact that I still have feelings towards him, this of course because we have spent again a lot of time together these past months and even were very close for weeks in a row. That I can do this today because we are both not in a relationship, but also because it just feels right. He could only agree with me on those facts.

He then told me calm and sereen that he went purely to see his child, that he has decided to try to build a certain bond with him, that our children are a priority now, but that this child also deserves his love which, of course, I can only encourage. He also said that he has come to realize even more how much he has hurt everyone around him and that he is terrified to do this again. That he will never put himself first again, but that he now puts all of us, the people who love him deeply, in first position now and that he will be there for us.

He will also tell the children about the existence of the baby in a few weeks, after our holiday and told me that this will be the most difficult thing he has ever done in his life. He is terrified to lose them again.

He also said he doesn't want a relationship anymore because he's terrified that he will hurt someone again. He doesn't trust himself today.

He did say he loves me very much, even more than he used to and that he really wants me in his life, but that he can't give me what I want, and that I truly deserve somebody who is "normal" and threats me the way I should properly be threated. He simply said that he can't be physical with somebody anymore. (very the opposite of what it was up to two months ago)
He has lost complete interest on this particular side.
He asked me if we simply could continue the way we are currently doing, and this being there for each other as friends and meet each other on a weekly basis as this means a lot to him.
I told him that for me the physical part is something I really miss as I didn't want to lie to him. He said that this was of course very normal as I am in the most beautiful part of my life and that I should seek what I need and that I should not wait for him in that matter.

I simply want to share all of this here as this is quite confusing now. I'm healed enough to go forward with my life but I also still love him deeply. Giving me a lot of stuff to think about now...

Next saturday i'm leaving for a holiday to Greece with the children. I go 10 days, G 10 days, and the children 14 days, meaning I will be alone with them for a few days, then G comes over, we spent a few days all together and the he will be alone with them for a few days. We have decided this a few months ago and children thought it was a great idea. Looking forward to that as well.

If anybody could give me some advice if there is a meaning for all the above, feel free to share!

Is this the phase you've been speaking about being extreme confusing, just as the MLC was?

xxx
E

Sounds like the ILYBINILWY speech. He’s being very honest with you so I would take him at his word. If you want to be friends with him that is totally up to you. If you choose friendship then it should be unconditional knowing that eventually he will likely date someone else.

Good Morning Eagle

As the MLCer slowly exits the running/replay stage and enters into depression, they can be drawn back and forth for a while. There are three stages post replay as the MLCer progresses towards acceptance - Depression, Withdrawal, and Acceptance.

Like all stages along the journey of a MLCer or LBS, stages are nebulous with no sharply defined delineation. Stages are not strictly linear, and a person can, and usually is, within more than one stage at a time since different facets of their journey are at different points of progress.

An LBS can be in depression of certain facets while angry of others and bargaining over others. However, one will experience an internal shift as the bulk of their feelings and processing has moved into the next stage.

This is likewise for an MLCer’s progress. They do spend a great deal of time consumed within replay, and moving into depression (and into withdrawal) is a huge step. They must come face to face with not only their pain that promoted their crisis, yet also the damages done.

Here is a link to some info of the MLC stages. The original poster of this particular laying out the stages included timelines with the stages, which in later writtimgs she removed as the estimates were not accurate. An MLCer will take as long as they need for each and every stage of their journey. No one can speed it up for them. At best an LBS’ efforts would be neutral, although the usual outcome is delaying the MLCer’s progress, or even stalling it.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484776&page=1

Originally Posted by Eagle3

Since his first visit to the baby he has with EX-OW, G has been drawn back into his own world for a while, this at least in terms of thoughts/feelings. I clearly saw that he needed to process what was going on in his life and just continued to treat him as a friend.

G has to come face to face with much. There will be back and forth as he progresses forward.

Originally Posted by Eagle3

G also bought a dog. He says this is because this way he can take care of someone again, and also has a reason now to get out of bed in the morning. The dog is really fantastic, she is sweet, affectionate and already incredibly hefty for her age. I can also really see that it gives G pleasure to have her in his life.

This is a good sign on many levels. G realizes he needed, and crafted, a reason to get out of bed in the morning (depression). G willingly and purposefully took on responsibility of the dog. G is reaching out with his feelings, showing love and compassion. First for a dog which was never hurt by him, then on to the folks whom he did hurt. Realize, G wants to fix this mess, he just doesn’t how yet. Be very very patient during all this.

Originally Posted by Eagle3

Last week, G went back abroad to visit his baby. He hesitantly, yet honestly told me this in advance. Since he went for a few days now, I was honest with him about my feelings as it didn't feel good when he told me about it. He then asked to talk about it and so we did. It was a relieve to finally be able to talk after all these weeks. We both were ready for it.

Stay patient. Thank him for being honest. G is working to get a handle on his own emotions and still cannot well handle other’s feelings just yet. Unfortunately you do have to do the lion’s share of the work here, leading by example. There is coming a time when those answers you seek can be sought, and those discussions you want to have can occur.

Originally Posted by Eagle3

He will also tell the children about the existence of the baby in a few weeks, after our holiday and told me that this will be the most difficult thing he has ever done in his life. He is terrified to lose them again.

He also said he doesn't want a relationship anymore because he's terrified that he will hurt someone again. He doesn't trust himself today.

Again, positive progress for G.

Yes, he would be terrified of the reaction of the kids. This is an obstacle he needs to overcome. He needs to find his inner strength and conviction to face this, take whatever backlash, then work to make amends.

I believe G is realizing the scope of the damage he inflicted. And the near monumental task of rebuilding and repairing. He needs to own this. To hit rock bottom and truly change - for himself. To change because he wants to.

Originally Posted by Eagle3

He then told me calm and sereen that he went purely to see his child, that he has decided to try to build a certain bond with him, that our children are a priority now, but that this child also deserves his love which, of course, I can only encourage.

Bless you Eagle. Yes, this innocent soul deserves their father in their life.

It will take some work and effort, however love does not exhaust. The more one gives, the more it grows and replenishes. S18, S15, and S15 can hold Dad in their hearts and receive his love, while G is in the other child’s life too.

Originally Posted by Eagle3

He did say he loves me very much, even more than he used to and that he really wants me in his life, but that he can't give me what I want, and that I truly deserve somebody who is "normal" and threats me the way I should properly be threated. He simply said that he can't be physical with somebody anymore. (very the opposite of what it was up to two months ago)
He has lost complete interest on this particular side.

G is depressed. He feels like a failure. Nothing turned out like he imagined it would. This is the normal forward progress for the lucky few MLCers. Lots of crisis folks never find their exit of replay, and simply deny and run from their ceaseless torment.

Remember, his journey is still emotionally driven. Feelings are fleeting, are temporary, although they feel permanent. G’s prognosticating of his future is based upon how he currently feels. He will progress through this, in time. He will feel differently, in time.

Originally Posted by job

Above all else, whatever changes you have made, they must stay in place for this is a new relationship now.

Absolutely!

It is clear there is a relationship growing between G and you. Be that growing into friends, or evolving into more, it is critical that you are you. The improvements made, the newer version of Eagle, you did for you. And she, the newer you, shines.

Think lighthouse. G sees and is attracted. Keep living and let him catch up.

Have a wonderful vacation Eagle.

D

Hi Eagle,
I'm largely silent here these days, but I have to weigh in here since much of this discussion centers on G, his feelings, his actions, etc.

Let's flip this and focus on the real jewel in the crown: YOU.

It's so easy to be drawn into the chaos that surrounds someone in a crisis, mid-life or otherwise, losing sight of ourselves, what we want, what's important to us, in the process.

We cannot fix anyone else.

We cannot heal anyone else.

Most importantly, we need to be aware of the fact that weak people often use the compassion and kindness of others as a crutch.

Practice fierce compassion, but do not lose sight of your own wants, needs, desires, goals, and especially keep those boundaries firm. Sounds like they're wavering, since the talk is a whole lotta G not so much Eagle.

Take him out of the equation.

What's new with you?

What are your aspirations for the future?

How close are you to achieving your near-term goals?

What are your get a life activities separate from G or your children?

Have you read any good books lately? Seen any good movies?

Are you dating?

Are you trying any new hobbies?

Eagle,

You have received some very wise advice from DnJ and bttrfly. Please listen to them.

My personal opinion is that right now, he is being very honest with you on how he feels about life, where his head/heart are at and the fact that he wants to put his family before all else. Yes, he is terrified to tell his children about the other child. He is feeling insecure and actually he' afraid that they will judge him harshly for what he's done. It's understandable after all that has gone down during his journey.

I'm glad that he wants to remain friends, but you need to understand that being friends with him is going to require you to step back a bit and allow him to continue on w/his journey and not get caught up in his emotional drama. Yes, he's still out there and still a bit of a mess emotionally. He still has a ways to go and right now, just being a friend is all you can be to him. Keep your expectations very low, do not allow this man to draw you into his drama. As bttrfly mentioned, you can't fix him because you didn't break him. He has to do this on his own. I wouldn't offer any advice to him unless he asks for it. Listen closely for he will tell on himself and you will need to sift through what he says for answers.

Eagle, your xh has a ways to go in his crisis. Try to remember, you can't rush the process. It took him some time to go into crisis, therefore it will take some time for him to come out of it, if he is lucky. Some recover completely, others keep some of their new found quirks and others walk the earth in crisis forever.

Enjoy your trip to Greece! Watch out for pickpockets, but the country is beautiful. I do hope you can relax and just enjoy your time away. Try to keep the focus on you and your children and just let go, let God have your xh for a while.

Hello dear DB people,

End of summer, so time for an update.

First of all, I would like to thank you all once again for the information shared here.

After reading the updates in the threads, and certainly from sjohns6, I can only confirm how similar the path of both the MCL'er and the LBS is, and this applies to all the people who are effectively experiencing it.

Bttrfly, you are right, I am not giving enough information about how I am doing, hence I will start with that first.

The life I am living today (and certainly for the past 1.5 years) has changed a lot with how I used to live. I have effectively learnt from putting myself 1st. However, I am still there for the people I like (including EXH), and maybe sometimes too much than necessary, this actually goes smoother one period than the other, but this is mainly because it is in my character and also partly because I have accepted who I am and don't want to change because of that.

The difference, however, is that I used to rarely go on outings with girlfriends, go to the beautician, book trips for myself, etc. Everything was about EXH and the kids, but this is in the past now.

I have start a course which is now almost complete and I should normally get my degree by the end of the year. I have been hunted for some companies who would like me to join them, on much better terms and in management positions (like I had pre-MLC) and am currently checking out what suits me best because I feel like really throwing myself into another responsible position, and last but not least, I am also venturing into dating land. I have met a man with whom I finally feel some electricity again. Something that hasn't happened to me so far in the last 20 years (outside of EXH)

However, I know very well what I want today. These words from sjohn6 actually describe what I feel too and what I already described in my former thread:

I guess I still love the old W, but she doesn't really exist anymore. Part of me thinks that I need to be done with those feelings before I can move on, but another part of me wonders if I will just always feel that way a little and that I need to learn to move on without that being something that goes away.

Also this part has been my belief for a very long time (and even still there a bit now):

Outwardly I tried really hard to move on, but there is a small piece of me that always thought that you would come back after some time.

However, I see EXH on a very regular basis and since then became close friends. Friends with more feelings than normal friends should perhaps have, but this is obviously due to our past. However, I have reflected for myself to the fact that a relationship is not possible with him today.
That is precisely why I have accepted that I have to move on, this also in terms of allowing other men into my life and I am finally ready for that. I am not looking for a steady relationship right away yet, but I am looking for a certain connection with a man other than EXH. I also intend to be very honest about this with the men I date.
If however in the future there would be an opportunity with EXH to have a new relationship, I think I would be open to that as well, but this is only possible when he becomes a person whereby there can be a future, and this is currently not the case, and will maybe never be the case anymore. So hence I want to move forward.

Hopefully this reflects my situation a bit.

Meanwhile, our children are also aware that they have a 'half-brother'.

EXH wanted to put it off again but I told him this was no longer possible and that he should tell them, that this no longer could be postponed as I did not want to lie to them anymore why he still went to that other country, even though he normally don't have a reason to be there.

He then finally did so, this at my house, as he wanted my support. The children responded incredibly well and maturely. The eldest had a little more difficulties but because the twins took it upon themselves to talk openly to their father about how they felt about it, he also managed to connect easily. I am so incredibly proud of them. EXH too was in tears and told them how grateful he is to have me in his life, that I am the most beautiful person he knows and that he is very, lucky that I was always there to give them such a good raising/upbringing. He has even admitted that he never believed in open communication, that a child should not know what is going on, but that he now sees the result of my persistence to do so.

However, this does not alter the fact that today he is still very much struggling with himself, in fact it has become worse again. This is precisely why there is some distance between us again. He's not always honest anymore and it looks like he's fallen back into his MLC. Drinking is also very much present again as well as certain statements he makes. The main reason, of course, is his child in another country and I think it's also the mother, to whom he still feels a great deal of guilt, which I assume is greater than the guilt he feels towards me and the children.

I also strongly follow Job's advice, I have taken a step back and am purely his friend. However, when I see that he dares to be dishonest or turns certain situations to his will I say that friends don't treat each other like that. He then shies away and adjusts his behaviour.

So, this should be about it. Became a longer post than I had in mind. LOL

I will be back very soon to reply to all other threads as well. Now working a bit again...

Have a nice day xxx

Hi Eagle!

It is nice to see an update from you. You seem to be working the DB principles well. Whatever happens I know you got this!

PLC

Eagle, thank you for your update and for letting us all know more about where you are in all of this.

I think it's easy to get caught trying to figure out where the other person is, but that's not important. What IS important is where we are, where we've been, and where we're headed.

It's taken me a very long time to come to the realization that it's a blessing I'm no longer married to my exh, and no longer have to live with his demons. It's taken even longer to be able to admit that, openly.

In many ways my life is a lot harder now but it's also a lot more peaceful. I wish the same ongoing peace and discovery for you and everyone else who finds themselves here.

Eagle,

Hello! I am not sure if we have chatted before, but I have read your updates from time to time. Your situation sounds difficult to navigate, but you seem to be doing really well considering all that has happened.

I wanted to echo what a few others have said. I do think it is important to take a step back while G goes through the things he is going through. DnJ pointed out all the reasons why some of what G is saying is good. It shows growth and movement. And the fact that he said that he is lucky to have you in his life, that is good! But, he is still in it. He hasn't completed his journey through the tunnel. If you remain hyper focused on analyzing where he is at in his journey, it is only going to negatively impact you. I think a good thing to remember is that YOU have remained the responsible partner in your marriage this entire time. YOU have worried about how you treat him this entire time. You have stayed the loyal wife and mother this entire time. He has not done these things for you. YOU are the prize! YOU are the one that deserves someone showing you by way of words and actions that the love and strength you have shown are worth fighting for. If it is anything less than that, it is less than you deserve. G may come around and be capable of that at some point, but he is focused on himself right now, and I challenge you to do the same. You are worth it! And when you feel better about yourself, it helps you in caring for the children. They need at least 1 sane adult to be their parent, and you can do that easier if you are focused on them and yourself. If G comes around at some point and wants to be an active member of the family again and fix things between you, then you can cross that bridge when he stumbles over to it.

I hope your day is amazing!

Originally Posted by bttrfly

It's taken me a very long time to come to the realization that it's a blessing I'm no longer married to my exh, and no longer have to live with his demons. It's taken even longer to be able to admit that, openly.
In many ways my life is a lot harder now but it's also a lot more peaceful. I wish the same ongoing peace and discovery for you and everyone else who finds themselves here.

Thank you bttrfly. I'm happy for you to finally reach that stage and I wish you a blessed, peaceful and fullfilling future.

Originally Posted by sjohns6

Hello! I am not sure if we have chatted before, but I have read your updates from time to time. Your situation sounds difficult to navigate, but you seem to be doing really well considering all that has happened.
I wanted to echo what a few others have said. I do think it is important to take a step back while G goes through the things he is going through. DnJ pointed out all the reasons why some of what G is saying is good. It shows growth and movement. And the fact that he said that he is lucky to have you in his life, that is good! But, he is still in it. He hasn't completed his journey through the tunnel. If you remain hyper focused on analyzing where he is at in his journey, it is only going to negatively impact you. I think a good thing to remember is that YOU have remained the responsible partner in your marriage this entire time. YOU have worried about how you treat him this entire time. You have stayed the loyal wife and mother this entire time. He has not done these things for you. YOU are the prize! YOU are the one that deserves someone showing you by way of words and actions that the love and strength you have shown are worth fighting for. If it is anything less than that, it is less than you deserve. G may come around and be capable of that at some point, but he is focused on himself right now, and I challenge you to do the same. You are worth it! And when you feel better about yourself, it helps you in caring for the children. They need at least 1 sane adult to be their parent, and you can do that easier if you are focused on them and yourself. If G comes around at some point and wants to be an active member of the family again and fix things between you, then you can cross that bridge when he stumbles over to it.

Dear sjohn,

So nice to meet you. We indeed haven't chatted before so thank you for sharing the above because I know you are spot on. It is only, when you are caught in the middle, that it is sometimes hard to navigate through it. EXH is very depended, but then he struggles again and pushes me away.
It doesn't take long to get over it, but still, each time it takes me some days whereby I feel angry and sad.

Short recap of the past days.

As I already mentioned in my previous thread EXH is distancing himself again and I caught him lying about a trip he did to the other country to see OW2 and child.
I confronted him and he admitted that he stayed over at her place, claims to not be in R with her (slept in the spare room), but seen the past I know better. So after more than one year of reconnection we are back to zero.
He also invited her for 10 days in his home next week so she will be in my and our childrens area and he didn't even tell them yet she is coming over. Also, only a handfull of people know he has another child and there she will be, with the possibily of walking into relatives, friends etc. that don't have a clue.

So I made it clear to him that I can't be his friend anymore in these circumstances. I was also very clear to him that he can't simply play with the people that love him the most, are always there for him, and then throw them away again like dirt. His answer was that he is well aware of the poison he is to the people he loves the most and that this is not a fun thought and that he is sorry for that. I couldn't help but saying that he is the only one with the power to change his behavior, and if he would want to do something about it he could definitely to that.

The main reason for his behavior is the little child. This is a new love in his life whereby he doesn't have a past with, can not judge him since too little, and for him this is an escape again, his running behavior has found a new purpose. OW2 doesn't have any money so he uses her (and she uses him) to allow this child to be more in his life.

His Father is very afraid to where this will lead again and I can't blame him, since there is a small innocent child involved and the concequences can lead to very difficult situations.

I on the other hand let go, I can't be in the middle of this, I have to protect myself and our children.

E

My intentions to let go completely worked out smoothly. The first two days were a bit more difficult to give everything a place again and to realise that his replay period is actually still not over (although I was pretty much sure of that this time) but that too found a place quickly.

He has contacted me a lot in the last week, with very mixed messages (sometimes angry, sometimes apologetic), the realisation that he has no control over me drives him crazy, but I have responded very firmly, and for two days in a row I haven't received anything anymore so he leaves me alone for now. We will see what the future brings.

I had a very good conversation with his father and he is more and more convinced that there is more to it. He told me that he can compare EXH to how he was before he was in R with me. Throughout his childhood, EXH has been a very difficult child, teenager and young adult, this ideed due to certain trauma's. He is convinced he is a narcissist, which is why I had to think about kml, who, if I remember correctly, had also come to the conclusion that her EXH actually always had it in him but was able to hide it for a long time.

FIL is convinced that this is the case. That he was able to suppress it for years because of the stability he had with his work and with me. At some point, the work fell away and he lost it, and this way his narcissism once again took a strong hold.

What it ultimately is, I guess the future will tell.

Meanwhile, the children are aware that their little half-brother will be around for the next period and the three of them have decided they want to meet him. They did make it very clear that they do not want to do this at EXH's house, as OW2 is also there, so I suggested doing it here at my house so that they can at least get acquainted in a for them stable and familiar environment and not simply somewhere random.
However, I am still in doubt if I will be there. I have absolutely no problem meeting the little boy, I have given that a place already a long time but I don't know if it is "necessary" for me to be there. After all, I have nothing to do with that, but I would do it for the children if they feel it should be necessary.

Good Morning Eagle

XH is having OW2 and their child staying over for ten days. My goodness that will be a surprise for those who don’t know.

I agree, the wee baby and XH’s responsibilities are both a draw and pressure to him. Reconciling his duties, being in people’s/kid’s lives, is going to be something he will have to figure out.

His awareness and regret of his poisonous behaviour, and yet his unwillingness and/or inability to alter his course, highlights his still inner turmoil. Much like the start of the crisis, when it (replay) starts winding down it has the MLCer living in two worlds again. He has to figure himself out. And depression is still ever present.

Absolutely, remain out of the middle of all this.

With one son an adult, and the other two 16 years old - hey are they driving yet? Gosh, practicing driving with two boys at the same time. Busy times for you. And stressful too. I remember all those many hours of teaching, and stress, and struggle.

And looking back, I love every minute of it!

Anyhow, with older kids this is very apt:

You job is not to facilitate the relationship between them and Dad, your job is to not destroy it.

Strangely, I found that is, at times, and especially as they get older, achieved by not so much protecting them, rather installing how to be protective of oneself. Seeing reality. Setting healthily boundaries. Ensuring your own self worth. And knowing that people will treat you as you let them.

I know you are an excellent living example for the boys. So this is more just encouragement for you to know you are doing fine.

Have a great day.

D

Originally Posted by DnJ

XH is having OW2 and their child staying over for ten days. My goodness that will be a surprise for those who don’t know.

I agree, the wee baby and XH’s responsibilities are both a draw and pressure to him. Reconciling his duties, being in people’s/kid’s lives, is going to be something he will have to figure out.

His awareness and regret of his poisonous behaviour, and yet his unwillingness and/or inability to alter his course, highlights his still inner turmoil. Much like the start of the crisis, when it (replay) starts winding down it has the MLCer living in two worlds again. He has to figure himself out. And depression is still ever present.

Absolutely, remain out of the middle of all this.

This is exactly what I have done until present. EXH came with the baby to my house yesterday to meet with our boys and I decided not to be present as this is something between them. They are old enough. They were pretty nervous and didn't feel like wanting to deal with this but they really wanted to see the little boy so they did. Afterwards they told me it was very confusing to see their dad with another child but they liked the baby, however they want to leave it at that for now.
They clearly see he's back to where he was about 1,5 year ago and are fed up with it.

Last week and this week we are making the necessary preparations for S19 who goes to University at the end of the month. We are preparing his place as he will be living on his own during the week in the city where he will be studying. Great experience by the way. My FIL is a big help, EXH didn't do anything and did not ask to help. (2 weeks ago completely the opposite, was planning to help out etc., now nothing anymore)

The awareness and regret have made place again for zero emotions and compassion towards me and the children. The only thing that counts are his feelings and the newborn child, which is his everything at the moment. Really strange to see this being completely turned again. I don't actually have contact with him, only sometimes a message and these are first very polite and 2 minutes later very controlling and a the least to say quite harsh. If so, I don't react or I tell him to stop this behavior.

I'm assuming OW2 will remain here at his place or will return shortly to pick up her stuff with the intention to come over and live here with him. I don't feel comfortable at all with this (it used to be most of the times abroad, so far away, but his time it will be very close if she decides to be again in an R with him)

But unfortunately I don't have any control over it, hopefully I will get used to the idea and situation soon.

Originally Posted by DnJ

one son an adult, and the other two 16 years old - hey are they driving yet? Gosh, practicing driving with two boys at the same time. Busy times for you. And stressful too. I remember all those many hours of teaching, and stress, and struggle.

And looking back, I love every minute of it!

In my country you are only allowed to drive as from the age of 18 so still 2 years to go for the twins. The eldest however had his lessons and has to go for his test in 2 weeks time. Hopefully he will succeed!

They also found it very strange to see that the baby is not a baby anymore but already 7 months old.

It will be a process to come to terms with the fact that their father, who has been so hard on them in recent years, not caring at all and literally abandoned them, is now doing his best for a child who has been in his life for about 2 months and acts like this is his everything.

I don't even think EXH is aware of this and what he is doing...or he doesn't want to aknowledge it...

Dear DB people,

Just wanted to wish all of you a nice, and for some of them going through hell right now, a peaceful and quiet weekend.

I've planned a lot of great things, going out for dinner with a nice male friend this evening, tomorrow working in the studio of S19 together with FIL and then some shopping to buy his first big groceries to start with. In the evening a movie evening with S16 1 and on Sunday a visit to Mum&Dad and a friend coming over to have a drink.

Eagle xxx

Good Morning Eagle

I see, the minimum age for a driver’s license is 18. A couple more years of shuttling them about.

Best of luck to S19 on his test in two weeks. I do hope it goes smoothly for him. A new shuttle operator soon.

Sounds like a wonderful weekend is on the horizon.

D

8 months since I last posted something on the forum. Time is flying by…

To everyone who still reads here sometimes, and who has been a huge support to me during what was surely one of the most difficult periods of my life, thank you!!!

8 months ago, however, I decided to take all your advice with me and do my own thing with it, and that was to start looking for the new me (or rather the me I want to be). Going to find out what I want, but more importantly, what I don't want anymore. It has become an incredible learning experience from which I have derived enormous satisfaction.

The brash, impulsive and intuitive person I was when I was younger is all the way back and I am a huge fan of it.

The button I flipped 8 months ago was because I finally started to realise that I was still very much dependent of my ex. MLC'er and his deep struggles. After the events of our last reconnection and the pain he’d caused again to our kids and me, was the exact reason why I flipped it, crazy but this happened overnight. I completely closed the door on him that time.

I learnt an awful lot in those last eight months on my journey of discovery. I contacted old friends, did speed dates, signed up on a dating app, met all kinds of new people, took a course and got a degree, threw myself into my new position at work,...In short, gained a lot of new experiences.
And I simply learned to be happy on my own, without a partner, together with my kids, family and have built up a very nice circle of friends.

But you can't stop love when it comes your way...

During my education, which actually lasted 1.5 years, I met a fantastic man, we clicked when we met for the first time, but we both held off for almost 2 years, we didn't even know about each other's feelings, probably because we were both still in a difficult and uncertain situation. With me, this has now been completely finalised, with him the situation is still somewhat complex, but it has also cleared up over the past few months.

However, after gaining our degree, we met occasionally for a drink since we got along so well, and finally we both have been open about our love for each other, this about two months ago now. And something incredibly beautiful is growing between us. Never thought I would experience this feeling again. A blissful time.

As for ex. MLC'er, he is still completely lost. The kids see him about once a month, this only for a few hours, not because they want to, but because it's their father and don't want to cut off contact completely. I myself have sporadic contact, this mainly for the children, but very minimal. Sometimes he suddenly still sends emotional messages, but then I hold off. A boundary has been reached and he won't get over that anymore. I don’t feel hate towards him, in the contrary, I feel like it has been a journey which made me a better, happier person. I sincerely wish him all the best and hope one day he will come out of the hell he’s in. But I never ever want to reconnect anymore. My deep love for him has faded away. To much happened which can't be forgotten anymore. But yes, I forgave him completely.

Hope to come back here soon and give you more insight about my “second life”.

Happy day to everyone.

Eagle xxx

Good Morning Eagle

It’s very good to hear from you. And with such an awesome update!

You definitely embraced the golden opportunity. Survived and thrived!

And yes, “second life” is most apt.

I’m so happy for you.

D

Happy for you, Eagle! Feels good to be on the other side, doesn't it? Well done, friend!

Eagle, I rarely come on here anymore and am way overdue for an update. It was so nice to see your name (name-ish) and to read your update. The wonderful man part sounds impossible! and so nice. Happy that you are feeling so good and sending you all my love.