just looking for others that are going through divorce or recently divorced. mine will be final in 30 days. just wanting to hear how others are doing. feeling alone with this right now.
Not much I can add, other than that my situation is practically a mirror of yours.
And many others. See how many “fill in the blanks” similarities there are in Jack Three Beans story reposted by AmyC. They both had a lot of experience and insights to share and well worth your time to read.
Originally Posted by AmyC
Jack's Story
Once upon a time, Jack was complacent in his marriage and home life. He did the bare minimum, as did his wife. As parents they were “there" but not really there for their two wonderful boys. Jack lost himself from the troubles, cares and boredom of the world in video games. Jack's wife lost herself in the attention of Jack's friend.
That was a year and a half ago, more or less. My story is much like anyone else's. We could make a form and leave blank spaces here for all of the new people.
A year plus into this I can identify here now. It is uncomfortable. Where did she go?
Originally Posted by AmyC
Now Jack, doesn't know if he wants her in his life. The things that he used to be able to swallow stick in his throat. He sometimes see the friend he used to have, but mostly it is just this person sitting across from him, this stranger who looks like someone he used to know.
Even when you may feel like you have nothing to say, simply thank you for stopping by. For me, when we do this it says someone understands, someone cares, you are not alone. I started in Lamentations, feeling alone, feeling like my faults were the sum of things, and feeling like OM's power loomed large.
Hey G....
Been keeping up a bit with your sitch...
I'm not here much anymore, although I do stop by occasionally to read.
Anytime my old friend's names are dropped, I do perk up a bit and pay attention to what's being said and interpreted.
I think if you were to read any situation from the past, you will find so many similarities in them.
So much of MLC is textbook, and so many of the stories resonate when you are in the heat of the battle.
I do see some things though, within you, that resemble Jack. The understanding, the softness, some of the interactions.
He came into DB softly, yet wielding a big stick. He owned his faults and acted on them to change and become a better version of himself. He was very vocal about his role in the breakdown of his marriage.
Most of his threads have been purged by now, which is a shame. He did have a way of telling his story.
He was also a walkaway, from his first marriage. And I think a lot of that allowed him to find empathy in his situation.
To him, the confusion that the WAS displays is the difference in those two paths.
Jack was also the first person that would tell you that there were people here, posters, that were more deserved of reconciliation of their marriage, yet he was lucky. Lucky that his wife's MLC was shorter than others, and he was able to outlast it.
And he DBed with the best of them, right up to the point where he was done....
AmyC was a fireball of MLC, a hailstorm within herself. She was the one in MLC that destroyed her marriage, and her husband DBed her without knowing what that meant, and when she hit her rock bottom, she tried to regain what had been lost, up until she realized that she was not going to sell her soul, just to be married to her husband....
Her reflection on that, and her openness of what MLC looked like was what made her special.
Jack would have been a fan of you though....
Encouraging you to burn every ounce of fuel to outlast her MLC, to find a way through this while causing minimal damage. To find one more day within yourself. He would ask if she was worth it, the waiting for her to figure herself out before a bell was rung that could not be un-rung..
He would tell you that your spouse carried your marriage at times on her back, and that maybe it's just your time to carry the marriage for while.
Originally Posted by J3B
"Today is not the day I quit, maybe I will tomorrow, but let's see what tomorrow brings"
He would also tell you to use your anger as a shield, not as a sword with your interactions....
And that there is nothing that you can say or do to change this, yet everything that you say or do will change this....
LOL, yea....when that makes sense, you will be on your way....
For me ?
I liken your story to another friend here.... TSqaured2
So things are moving along. WW continues to be unreliable, made a committment to be here this saturday to help box up things and separate what we have to get rid of and pick what she needs to keep. I am only looking to keep my own possessions, as in collectibles, books, my computer and my clothing and such, I have offered her everything else, I want to do a full cleanse of anything that we owned together. She then tells me she has plans this satuday, not surprising to me at all, when she falls head over heels with one of the OMs its her typical pattern, which is why things have taken longer than necessary to resolve. The more i see this the more i feel the nudge to push forward with a completely new life. I handed in my long term leave (5 years) form at work and it was approved, i moved 5 weeks i had of vacation that i will tack into the 5 weeks preceding the closing of the home. Next week I am going to renew my passport and once i have it ready I will book my one way ticket back to my home country, i have already began making provisions for when i get there. I now have the time to take care of clearing the home, shipping some clothing and things i will need, giving things that are mine away to people that I know, people that have supported me through this time and were there for me when I was in a dark place. While this gives me some clarity and gives me set dates, it is a hard pill to swallow. My heart is torn but my mind is pushing me forward into starting a new life and leaving all of my old baggage behind.
I dont think she fulls understands that i will no longer be in her life in any form whatsoever, 5000km away, new phone number, no address to find me. She has taken for granted my presence in her life while she lives her narcissistic ego driven existence. But that is all coming to an end soon and a new chapter of my life shall start.
Had our counseling appointment yesterday. Overall, it felt like a productive discussion.
W brought up a good deal of her historical concerns (not feeling like I put her first, issues w/ my mother, not feeling like our money situation is fair, and a smattering of other issues) and now with MLC and menopause not being interested in sex.
The counselor asked why come to counseling at this point with D looming. W said it was because I didn't to divorce. When the counselor turned to me, I clarified that 1) W asked me a month ago about trying counseling again and 2) I've come to accept that we may reconcile or D and am OK with either outcome. If we can reconcile, I'm on board with trying. Further, if the only reason W wants counseling is because she feels I don't want to D, we probably shouldn't be doing counseling.
W struggled to tell the counselor what she meant by not feeling like I put W first. The only example shared involved my mother and a struggle between them around how we celebrate Mother's day. For years, we tried having my mom, MIL, SIL and, W celebrate together. W felt like she never got to be "The Mom". I'd asked what that would look like and W really couldn't say. I offered suggestions like "Do you want to go away for the weekend? Should we just tell everyone we're doing our own thing?" and even said "I'm going to do X" to which she historically responded "Well, I want to see why my mom (MIL to MrP) wants to do first...." So I told the counselor I feel stuck in a bit of a loop.
Regarding money, I make double what W does. Before we got married, we agreed to split our budget in proportion to our income. I cover 70-80% of our expenses; W the rest. As time passed, W felt like this was unfair (because I still have a surplus from not being a spender). I've offered to revisit our budget or pool money (as of 6-7 years ago). I've tried to set up time for us to work through it. W doesn't like talking about money, has social anxiety, and just avoids the discussion. Hard to solve something when one party just wants to complain and not do the work. W somewhat acknowledged the mixed messaging here.
We covered some additional ground about what we want to get out of counseling. I said W is really driving the show because we've got mediation in a month and the court was pushing for the D to be done in about 2 months. W wants to go back for more counseling and is talking with her L today about options to delay/postpone the D.
Another point of recap...the first time W filed for D in 2018/19, I put in a ton of DB work to the point that W told our counselor at the time that I'd "become the perfect husband". Before that, I'd describe our issues as common solvable ones described by John Gottman in his well-researched books. W has high social anxiety issues, like is an avoidant attachment style, and a confessed perfectionist. I'm not perfect, but admittedly I've increasingly felt like these issues and some past trauma/abuse that W suffered are at the core of our relationship at this point. A prior MC went so far as to tell me that our marraige won't move forward until W deals with this past trauma.
I am left wondering now if D may be a better route for me and D13. Continuously revisiting these issues, often through the lens of negative sentiment override (where one part overwrites most memories into a negative light) and three MCs later, maybe I'm seeing that W can't break free from the loop...and I'm trying to "white knight" the situation. Thoughts appreciated. Right now, I'm still a believer in MWDs philosophies about D not being a real solution. Just a bit tired of the amount of mental effort (and impact of physical wellness) with this counseling, mediation, and possible D all coming to a head right now. Phew. Time to stop. Thanks for listening. Be well, all.
One of my favorite pieces of advice for success, and it comes from Yoda!
I remember being twelve years old when the first Star Wars movie came out. I was the perfect, impressionable age for that story. And I remember seeing it for the first time and being immediately hooked. As in the first five minutes. It turned my adolescent world upside down.
A few years later, my fifteen year-old self heard Yoda say those words, and they struck me like a lightning bolt. Little did I know how important they would be at some of the most challenging times of my life. I keep recalling them over and over. I have come through other major challenges when I stopped trying and started doing.
The loss of my parents. The time and sacrifice spent earning a doctorate. Needing to leave a job I had great hopes for and start building my future all over again. I came through all of these and not only survived, but thrived.
And I will do it again.
And so will you, aphexx. I know the wounds are fresh. They sting. Mine stung too, horribly. Now, after almost a year of self-reflection and work, I am seeing the path forward. It is there. You will find yours as well. Keep posting and striving.
Hey Rock. Sorry to hear about the loss and hope you and your friend are doing as well as you can. Glad to hear you've otherwise got a lot on your plate in terms of dancing, running, family, and friends. Negotiations are slow via email. I guess the upside is that everything is documented so that there is less chance for confusion later. Keep at it! All the best. P
Hi Folks, Just for starters my mother was very ill from late 2022 till Tues 24th Jan, when she started to improve greatly. I stayed with her bar 3 days starting on Christmas eve. The doc's couldn't find what was wrong with her. Her carer's were not allowed to lift her up, they were only coming in the mornings anyway. So I helped nurse her better. I knew that she was getting better, when she could start to eat some things. She had some of my portion of fish, chips (french fries) & peas.
By the 20th of Jan 2023 I found out my mentor & friend Tom died on the 9th Jan. To the folks who were close to him knew him as the weeping lost sheep evangilist. So his funeral took place on Friday 27th Jan. The day I told the carers I was moving out & they would also now put Mum to bed as well as the morning. On the Friday 27th she also started back at day care (4 days a week).
Well I was the only one in the family apart from my youngest daughter Dawn to have contact with my middle daughter Louise (not their real names). I sent her an email & she replied with the following, titled: I’m going NO contact with you from now on
I can no longer pretend that I’m happy to continue playing my role in our family dynamic. The fog has been lifting for me since my life changed for the better in 2020. I know this will be hard for you to comprehend. There can never be any resolve over the past because I know that you have no desire to make the unconscious, conscious. This is why I can’t be my true self in my interactions with you. For the most part, I’ve been playing the nice ‘good girl’ role since childhood, in order to keep the peace & to keep me safe from harm/conflict. Whilst I’ve given you an indication of why I need to go no contact, I don’t want to go into any more detail because my lived experience as a member of our family is a world away from what you imagine it to be/have been. I know this to be true, as you re-wrote the actual reality of the time when Mum was a member of our family dynamic too. After Mum left, keeping quiet on what I knew to be true about that situation was always a necessary coping mechanism, to ‘keep the peace.’
I want to finish by saying that since early 2021 I’ve been following the guidance of a true spiritual teacher. This is how I’ve managed to find the strength to go no contact with you. I know I found this teacher for a profound reason. Just like I know generational trauma has fallen hard on me for a reason. I am a conscious being & I’m choosing to follow the path of soul ascension. In time, I am going to heal all my wounds. As long as I have a life to live, I’m seeking liberation in every way possible, therefore going no contact with you is a necessary part of the healing journey I’m on.
Going forward please respect my wishes for absolutely no contact in any form. I don’t want to receive any texts, emails, cards, letters, phone calls or voicemails from you. This is the way it has to be from now on. ---------------------------------------------------------
It's a funny thing because a year ago, all I wanted was for him to be as he is now. I actually think I would prefer him to still be with AP because I'd know he was OK. I hate to see him suffering but equally, I've learned that our relationship wasn't the perfect relationship I thought it was. We were completely codependent. I mothered him, he didn't take on any responsibility & was dependent on me for most things. On my part, I felt adored (until I wasn't!) & was willing to put up with a banal existence because I felt safe & secure (meanwhile resentment was breeding on both sides).
This hits home with me. I'm far enough out that I can see how I indulged her in some positive ways (loving and accepting her despite her feeling inadequate due to her many years of obesity) and some negative ones (indulging her blatant fiscal irresponsibility, despite giving her chance after chance to improve). I got the adoration in return too, which felt great until it stopped, and I passively accepted that she had two jobs that were bring prioritized over me. I think not dealing with that was a mistake on my part, although if I had complained she probably would have said I was too controlling.
So glad to hear you're moving forward on all fronts, MA. Hopefully not being pulled around by him and his drama will be a relief to you. All blessings going forward.
I get it, T. Company is good and, if you've got your mind in the right place, the gender of the company doesn't matter. And, especially in the evenings, options for social engagement can be limited and many involve blowing money and drinking.
I've been keeping an eye out for cultural events that are open to the public as an alternative. It can be a great way to mix things up with a new crowd that has at least one interest in common with me. I've also had some co-workers and neighbors bugging me about hanging out so I've finally taken them up on those offers. Much like 180s, you just have to proactively keep trying to identify different alternatives, ideally things you've wanted to try but haven't or things that you know you'd enjoy and take it from there. I may have said this once before...and heard it from a former counselor...it is also important to be able to self-soothe and spend time alone without relying on others for comfort or company. That is one of the best pieces of guidance I'd ever received and I've made major progress on it since then.
Indeed I also understand what you mean by things feeling "temporary" or surreal in some ways in our situations. For me, it has helped to just revisit my short- and long-term goals and make sure I'm making progress on things like retirement (+10 years out), relationships with family and friends, mapping out what D13 has coming our way over the next few years approaching high school and college. Phew. That generates enough to keep my mind and body busy alone!
Anyway, good to hear your update and looking forward to more down the road. Take care. P
MrP is spot on - MLCers are predictably unpredictable. An LBS interacting, especially intimate interacting, must maintain minimizing their expectations regarding their mixed up crisis spouse.
Originally Posted by jessieht
he has been helping around the house and being super kind over that last little bit of time. So later that night it all started again and I didnt stop it. He made sure and asked if I was sure I was ok with it which I appreciated. It was awkward because my mind was flashing with so many thoughts of good and bad. He sat on the edge of the bed clearly wanting to say something but stopped himself a few times. I didnt ask any questions. then he went to do other house stuff and went to bed in his bed and a little later I could hear him sniffling like he was crying. So I dont know if he just felt guilty or what. But now the last two days he is back to really withdrawn again. Is this normal.
Yep. Pretty normal behaviour for someone in crisis.
Remember, H is driven by his emotions. He felt better, was helpful around the house and kind. Felt close to you. Felt the old love. Initiated sex and even more importantly initiated intimacy. Being close to you.
And, emotions stirred within him again. Regrets, guilt, shame, and still the unresolved feelings of the past childhood events, all swirled within him, again. Albeit, less than bomb drop levels. There is forward progress after all. Where it all finishes is unknown, though I put H on a positive journey still.
His seeming to want to say something and then stopping himself; you are absolutely correct in that assessment and in how you handled it. Let him lead. H is on his path and on his timeline. Pressure, pushing for answers will propel H in the opposite direction. So, well done!
Don’t worry, H will bring it up when he feels safe. And don’t take it personally, H’s fear and feelings are his, and not because of you. It’s all part of his growth and healing.
Originally Posted by jessieht
Should I have said no? I am not sure of anything any more.
You are doing fine.
Sex. Cake eating. Like most things it’s not black and white, it’s gray. And it’s situation specific.
Like everything here, you are first and foremost. In that, when first starting out, and not well detached and such, cake eating and alike is off the table. In time, and in some situations, cake eating becomes less so. It’s the disrespectfulness of it, more than the deed. If that makes sense.
Sex is pleasurable. It’s ok to enjoy it. It can also form and reinforce a bond.
Of course, OW is still in the picture. To what extent, I’m not sure. Breaking up is hard. However, you seem ok with the activities between H and you. Like I said, situation specific, some situations are wildly high risk - STDs for example.
Lots of MLCers will not let go of a branch until they have another one. That would include a possible returning. Jilting H’s advancements would likely not be beneficial to your goals. Likely-wise, definitely do not be used. As I said, you are first and foremost. If you want and enjoy H’s intimate company and he is not using you, it’s ok.
Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t. And ensure you do with you, your health, your welfare - emotional, physical, spiritual - in mind first!
Keep a handle on your expectations and/or reading too much into H if/when you continue to be intimate. Right now, where H is at, such closeness holds different meaning to H than it does you.
It’s very common for the MLCer to make forward progress, to peek out of the tunnel, to get scared or such, and retreat back in to their crisis tunnel. Each time they emerge, especially without reprisals and judgement from the LBS, their retreat lasts less and less. Eventually, hopefully, being able to exit their consuming torment permanently.
Your part, is like you are doing. Upholding boundaries on disrespectful behaviour. Being kind and cordial. Living and loving your life. And letting H run to catch up.
You are the prize. You are the lighthouse. You are the leader, the living example. Let him pursue you. Let him become worthy of you.
Well we’re exclusive now. I don’t think he was dating anyone when we met but you never know obviously. I thought marriage meant we were exclusive and that wasn’t true. Lol. I can laugh about it now.
Part of me wants to run because I think I don’t have another heartbreak in me but I realize I’m stronger now. I know now that I need to maintain my life outside of a relationship. I built a good one and I’m not making the mistake again of wrapping my entire life around one person. I have friends now, hobbies, enjoy my own company, I have a life.
I’m grateful for this site for teaching me this. It was awful getting to this point but now I can honestly say it was worth it.
If you ever wonder about how the work on this forum affects peoples lives, I'm here to tell it helped me immensely. I found these bits of wisdom because I started with the stickies and worked my way back. The threads of quotes and Sandi2's were especially valuable. Every time I found one that resonated, I would track it back to the source and read through. All those 2X4s to other people helped ME! Thank you.
Thank you all for sharing your wisdom and experience. It really helps to hear your perspectives to re-focus myself on the work and introspection I should be doing. I think the biggest thing for me is to learn to be okay with being alone and find who I am as a single person, not in a relationship. This is all new to me and perhaps the most difficult part of this journey. It's so much easier to seek intimacy and affection to fill that void.
I’m just having a go. I’ve been watching lots of YouTubes on professionals playing and demonstrating.
This is awesome! Because it is you. Because you want to.
Originally Posted by KangaB
What the hell goes on in people’s minds to be so inconsistent? It does my head in.
I think most people here over the years would say the same. You look for logic and understanding. So do I. Over the last year I keep reviewing the threads saying stop it, those is the wrong questions to ask and eventually those won't matter so much. I remain a work in progress.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I was so hoping that when H and I were together over the last 3 months that I could prove you all wrong here. What a fool I am.
No, not a fool. We wouldn't be here otherwise and the future is unwritten no matter what the probabilities. I mean, how likely did we think our W or H would do what they did?
I have been contemplating hope vs expectations for a year now. My WW told my D18 and D17 "I have to make sure G has no hope" outright the first night she asked for a separation. And then became very cold overnight. She stayed that way for over two months to keep herself on her course. (A funny aside, I could tell when she let go the tight coldness a little, relaxed a little, because she stopped wearing a bra with her PJs at night) She carefully asked once, around month four, did I still have hope, had I given it up? I thought a moment and said, "No, it is that I don't have expectations." I think she took is as I didn't have expectations of an outcome. I also meant I was letting go of expectations of her personally. I didn't clarify. Maybe I should have. I don't know.
I keep this and several others on tap to re-read for myself periodically. It's all worth a read to keep centered.
Originally Posted by Zues126
In conclusion, if you are seeing signs that your spouse wants to return, post all about it here. Get it out of your system. Overreact on these forums. Tell us how it's going to work out after all, that we were wrong, that YOU KNEW your WAS, you KNEW they would fall back into your arms, that you think you are in piecing, etc, etc, etc. But please, for all that is good and holy, stay detached from them outwardly and give them time to see if they actually recommit, show true remorse, and prove it to you with consistent behavior over time. Keeping DBing and may you make it to the other side, whatever lies ahead.
Btw the Grok, I have never chimed in on other’s posts because I really don’t have any advice to give away yet.
Me either. And I'm in it, just like you.
Smarts I have. Wisdom I'm not so sure of or I wouldn't be here in this Grief. W and I have ~140+ IQ which helps many things... but not this. Smarts brings it's own set of issues - decision paralysis, not being able to figure out the right level of communication (you are either condecending or no one understands what you just said), W told me I was too sweetly logical so she stopped trying to tell me she was unhappy, etc...
But stepping out of my comfort zone I can post to say I see you K, I hear you K. I can show some of the inner me.
Bustorama shared so much greatness above but THIS IS ESPECIALLY GOLDEN ADVICE:
Originally Posted by bustorama
Do not under any circumstances base your actions on her reactions or what you believe will be her reactions to your actions. That is controlling, manipulative, and co-dependent. If she acts cold or angry or whatever at you, so be it. Hear what she says, and validate her feelings. But do not be influenced or subordinate to them.
