Postcards from the Island of Misfit Toys ...

[Mach1]

Just when I thought I was done....

Y'all drag me back...

As anyone that's been here for a while knows....I've been here a long time. Possibly too long.

I was gone for a while, and found myself back, looking for someone that I lost.

Yet, along the way, I realized that I was losing "me" too.

Lost in the daily readings of posters, the drama, the pain of the newer people, the trying to remember what worked for me when I was first here.

This site is a "safe" haven for many of the long time posters. Everyone that has been drug through the mud will eventually gravitate back when they feel the pull, or have a situation in their life that they need to refresh themselves. Getting back to basic DB101 often involves a stroll down misery lane..

And I also have said how much this place has changed, and isn't the same as it was then. There seems to be a lack of Empathy, and seemingly only one route that a poster should take in their plight.

What is often forgotten, and seemingly been a topic of contention lately is....."Do what works"

For me, what is lacking is the ability to "see" the situation for what it is. When that happens, the advice tends to be "cookie cutter" and the individualism is removed. The advice leans toward trying to get the poster to "fit" within a system instead of the system being flexible, and adapting to each poster as a person.

Within that, what is removed is, "do what works"....

I was involved with the recently banned poster's last post. I KNOW what it said, and while I may not have agreed with it, what was lost from it's removal and subsequent banning of the poster was a discussion that COULD have been a learning experience for anyone lurking, or even possibly posting. That has always been the beauty of this safe place. A place where there could be differences of opinion, and still work through them, and find a workable balance ...FROM THIS DAY FORWARD. I grew more from the conflict, than I ever did through peace.....

Which is exactly the foundation that this site has , or supposedly has, been built on...

How is that different from the relationship/marriage that has failed and we are looking for a better way ?

How is that different from a WAS ? When something happens, you just walk away from it ??

Seems the textbook definition of hypocrisy to me....

And when/if/not likely gonna happen someone can explain that to me ? Then this site will once again make sense.

And please don't waste time telling me that the site has the right to ban/limit/censor anything that deemed necessary. Working through conflict is the premise that this site has always worked toward. And if we -as people supposedly bettering ourselves- cannot complete that task ? WHY are we here professing how much we have learned in our process ????

IRL, we cannot simply "ban" away our conflicts....life doesn't work that way....


Cadet, you said that you get back what you give, and in most instances you are correct. You and me brother, we've given a LOT, yet I have also gotten back a LOT.

So where is that line that we draw between losing our safe haven, and letting it all go ???

You and me talking here, not a "mod to a poster".....

I understand B-lady's frustration of having her safe haven changed. I would imagine that it's stemming from a place of easier control. 3 sub-forums are easier to "police" than the current number. I also feel that it is in some way the administrator is out of touch with what actually happens here, and it is a necessary "evil" because it is mentioned in the DB/DR books, that such a place exists.




So Cadet.....

My question is the same as B-lady's on the level of...

What happens to the archives, and the years of pain and really good threads during this transformation ??

Will they still exist ??

Will they be accessible for reference material ??

If not, then this site and it's formerly wonderful history has been lost....

And I sincerely hope that isn't the case....







Newer posters, take the time to go back and read the archives....



Starsky309 / puppydogtails

Coach

Forrestgump

MrBond

Sandi

Jack_3_Beans

Bworl

Ericmsant

Truegritter

Lostforwords

Cat04

AmyC


Those will/can serve you well.....





If this should be my last post, I wish you all well....

[Rockon]

Since BD, I have been very much needing, craving and searching for the real: community, honesty, raw especially raw and real from compassionate, kind and thoughtful people. The provision and moderation of these forums have facilitated such a space and it is the generous and vulnerable (and at times blunt) participation of the members - you and I with lived and living experiences - that makes it such a safe, trustworthy refuge to come to when I am in need of support and don’t get it yet again.

These concepts and practices are not widely disseminated in our culture.

[job]

bttrfly,

I may be setting myself up to be flamed, but I'm going to address some of the issues that have come up since the "big" announcement. Because I am also involved in creating a new look for this Board.

The Board has looked the same since 1999. It's time to update the Board. There are some forums that are not used but once or twice a year, if that. I have put forth the question of possibly merging them together under a new title or archiving them.

As for Surviving the Big D, it needed a fresh look and/or archived. Current posters are more than welcome to post on the new forum. No one has said that you can't. It will be used to for discussions on how to move forward from a divorce and the difficulties posters face when moving forward/on as well as any other topic that is related to the mission of the Board. The new posters want to read about our trials and tribulations while we navigated the post divorce process. They want to read and learn from us, especially those that have successfully moved forward with their lives.

I will address the questions that have come up about archiving. Yes, there will be archiving. As far as I am aware, the archived forums/threads will still be available for reading, copying and linking into current threads for referencing. As far as posting to them, I'm waiting for more details. If, at some point, that Board needs to delete all of them due to mainframe space, posters will be given ample time to copy them for future reference. This is the same practice that we have used in the past when it comes to cleaning up the Board, generally in the late spring/early summer.

As for threads disappearing...if a poster requests that threads be totally deleted, then we delete them. If a poster wants them hidden, we put them in a safe place. (As I recall, you have requested that we do this to some of your threads in the past and they are still safely tucked away, per your request.) There have been a couple of times when the mainframe has had issues, in the past, and things got deleted, but we would never intentionally delete threads unless we are requested to do so.

As for the notifiy and edit buttons, the people behind the scenes are still trying to fix them. We don't have any control over those issues. All that we can do is keep reminding them that they need to be fixed.

As I told you in a private message last week, you will not be banned and/or moderated. Why are you so concerned about being banned? Are you posting or planning to post things that would be the subject of banning? I would stop worrying about being banned and continue posting, if this is what you want to do. If posters follow the Board's rules/policies and stick to what the mission is, I don't see any problems.

As for the incident with LH, that is between LH and Michele. It is not up to the moderators to tell posters what happened. If LH wants to tell you, then he can, i.e., I believe he is on other social media outlets and is in contact with people who post here. Banning posters is not a new process. It has been used over the years by the Administrator and the posters were not told why. It just happened.

bttrfly, you asked about dating discussions. Here is my humble opinion, I wouldn't discuss it too much. I wouldn't mention dating sites that posters are visiting, since they are not directly related to divorcebusting. I wouldn't mention conquests, i.e., how many dates before having sex, etc. Some of what has been posted should remain personal and not shared here. Would you go out on another social media platform and announce how many dates you went on before having sex? I would hope not! How is sharing a poster's conquests mission related to Divorcebusting? Yes, some of the posters have become friends and tend to forget that we are not on a private site, whereby we are not the only ones that can see what is posted. If posters want to discuss other dating sites or what they did or did not accomplish in finding someone on a dating site, they may want to consider becoming members of "dating forums" out on the web that discuss all of this or go to another social media platform and set up a group, whereby they are free to discuss all of their dating concerns/issues. Just my two cents.

Is the Board safe? Well, it is as safe as any social media outlet can be. However, because it is wide open for people from all around the world to read, I strongly suggest that you not post TMI. There have been times when angry spouses/partners have figured out where we are posting and come here and read, copy and print off info to be used by their lawyers when it comes to separation and divorce situations. Even secured platforms can be hacked from time to time. Even other platforms have the authority to censure what is being discussed and/or banning posters.

For the last year, we have been lenient with posters when it comes to posting other sites, the language and discussion topics. However, with the Board getting a fresh look, we will be going back to editing language, deleting links and identifying other sites that are deleted unless they are directly related to Divorcebusting in some way.

Posters tend to forget that this is a spinoff of Michele's business and she is the one calling the shots when it comes to whether or not we have permission to post here. When we requested a UserId/password, we agreed to follow the Board's rules/policies. We are very lucky that she does not charge a membership fee like other Boards do.

BTW, I hope that one day, Michele will write another book and include more topics that the posters are concerned about.

Here is my final take on the changes that are going to take place, each and every one of us has the freedom of choice, we can either leave or stay and see what happens when the new changes take place. I would hope that posters will stay and continue to provide sage advice and/or guidance to the newbies. However, if you wish to leave, I want to wish each of you the very best. Many of you have been here a very long time and have accomplished so much. You have given sage advice/guidance over the years. Even though you may not have saved your marriage, you saved yourself. Be proud of what you have accomplished.

No, bttrly, I have not taught you well. You did that all on your own.

[bttrfly]

bttrfly,

I may be setting myself up to be flamed, but I'm going to address some of the issues that have come up since the "big" announcement. Because I am also involved in creating a new look for this Board.

I appreciate your posting, Job. I would hope that after almost 8 years of posting here, you would know by now that I would not flame you, nor would I intentionally flame anyone else. I hope that other posters would refrain as well. You've spent an incredible amount of time here over the years helping others. That in and of itself deserves respect from me and everyone else here.

The Board has looked the same since 1999. It's time to update the Board. There are some forums that are not used but once or twice a year, if that. I have put forth the question of possibly merging them together under a new title or archiving them.

I think this paragraph would pretty much get close to unanimous agreement from the peanut gallery.

As for Surviving the Big D, it needed a fresh look and/or archived. Current posters are more than welcome to post on the new forum. No one has said that you can't. It will be used to for discussions on how to move forward from a divorce and the difficulties posters face when moving forward/on as well as any other topic that is related to the mission of the Board. The new posters want to read about our trials and tribulations while we navigated the post divorce process. They want to read and learn from us, especially those that have successfully moved forward with their lives.

That's great! After a 26 year plus relationship in my case, and longer for other people, safe to say things are a lot different than the last time most of us was single. Add kids into the mix ... still having to deal with exes around custody issues, finances, home maintenance, car repair - yeah, it can be quite daunting to try to figure it all out on your own.

Even the simple act of reading that someone survived it all and is now thriving gives the rest of us hope, especially on our most difficult days. I'm glad that's not going away.

I will address the questions that have come up about archiving. Yes, there will be archiving. As far as I am aware, the archived forums/threads will still be available for reading, copying and linking into current threads for referencing. As far as posting to them, I'm waiting for more details. If, at some point, that Board needs to delete all of them due to mainframe space, posters will be given ample time to copy them for future reference. This is the same practice that we have used in the past when it comes to cleaning up the Board, generally in the late spring/early summer.

I can't say this with 100% certainty, but the threads I've sent people to are all generally already locked down, so no one can (or should) be posting to them. The way I use them is as a reference point if I think there's a similar situation in newcomers that a poster would benefit from reading. Sometimes, as you know, several of us can say the same thing to a Newcomer, and it seems to fall on deaf ears. There's nothing like reading someone's thread and seeing your own story there, complete with advice given, taken, ignored and results. Those threads are DB gold, imho, so I hope there is a way to archive them.

As for threads disappearing...if a poster requests that threads be totally deleted, then we delete them. If a poster wants them hidden, we put them in a safe place. (As I recall, you have requested that we do this to some of your threads in the past and they are still safely tucked away, per your request.) There have been a couple of times when the mainframe has had issues, in the past, and things got deleted, but we would never intentionally delete threads unless we are requested to do so.

Yes, I am aware of that. It's not clear that everyone was, although stating that here is great for clarification purposes. I still have no idea why someone couldn't see a post we all saw then was able to see it later, but that's tangential to this issue.

BTW, thanks again for moving my threads to the safe place. Please delete all of my threads; that should help clear up some space for archiving.

As for the notify and edit buttons, the people behind the scenes are still trying to fix them. We don't have any control over those issues. All that we can do is keep reminding them that they need to be fixed.

You have been a true voice in the wilderness on this one for a long, long time Job. I appreciate that you are still trying to get that fixed and understand your frustration that it's taking so long.

As I told you in a private message last week, you will not be banned and/or moderated. Why are you so concerned about being banned? Are you posting or planning to post things that would be the subject of banning?

I agree completely that no one owes me or anyone else an explanation for why LH or anyone else is banned. There's no denying, however, that when someone disappears, it can be unnerving to the people who remain. When questions are asked about it by a lot of people and not answered in a reasonable timeframe, people tend to get more nervous. That's Organizational Behavior 101.

I don't think I've posted anything that would make me face moderation or being banned, but therein lies the rub, right? I didn't think the post that got LH banned was anything different than others have said, sometimes more vehemently, in the past. Heck I remember a lot of us telling Gordie to go ahead with his move out plans. That could be construed as not being pro-Marriage, although the general consensus among those of us thinking he should leave was that his wife would get a wake up call if she got what she thought she wanted.

I remember when several of us became quite concerned about a poster's wellbeing because her spouse was exhibiting some pretty deranged behavior and we actually suggested she strongly consider ending things or at least moving them along in a legal manner so she and her children would be safe - again, not pro-Marriage statements, but safety concerns were legitimate.

It's pretty clear where the line is in Newcomers and MLC; to me that line can get blurry post-D. So, while I may think something is ok to post on the Surviving side, it may, in fact, not be. I like things to be clear. I like to know the boundaries. If I'm going to play in someone's sandbox, I don't want to unintentionally kick sand in their face or be disrespectful. I hope that makes my concerns more clear.

I would stop worrying about being banned and continue posting, if this is what you want to do. If posters follow the Board's rules/policies and stick to what the mission is, I don't see any problems.

As for the incident with LH, that is between LH and Michele. It is not up to the moderators to tell posters what happened. If LH wants to tell you, then he can, i.e., I believe he is on other social media outlets and is in contact with people who post here. Banning posters is not a new process. It has been used over the years by the Administrator and the posters were not told why. It just happened.

bttrfly, you asked about dating discussions. Here is my humble opinion, I wouldn't discuss it too much. I wouldn't mention dating sites that posters are visiting, since they are not directly related to divorcebusting.

I have done so and will not in the future. That's a point of clarification I was looking for. Thank you.

I wouldn't mention conquests, i.e., how many dates before having sex, etc.

um, Job ... this is Bttrfly you're talking too ... I wouldn't discuss my sex life here even if I had one! That's private, and while people may have some concerns about that part of post-D life, there ought to be other places to get those concerns addressed.

Some of what has been posted should remain personal and not shared here.

I have been embarrassed by what some people have posted. I do not judge them for it, but it's not something I would personally ever be comfortable discussing.

Would you go out on another social media platform and announce how many dates you went on before having sex? I would hope not!

Well according to most people here my views on the subject of sex are at best archaic, so to answer your question - - no. I wouldn't answer that IRL, much less online.

How is sharing a posters conquests mission related to Divorcebusting? Yes, some of the posters have become friends and tend to forget that we are not on a private site, whereby we are not the only ones that can see what is posted. If posters want to discuss other dating sites or what they did or did not accomplish in finding someone on a dating site, they may want to consider becoming members of "dating forums" out on the web that discuss all of this or go to another social media platform and set up a group, whereby they are free to discuss all of their dating concerns/issues Just my two cents.

Good to know. I believe I've violated some of that by talking about deciding to join OLD for a three month period, my screening process (which all but one person thought was too stringent - thanks KML for understanding my thought process on the swipe left rules of BF), and some of the experiences I've had there. I will not discuss those topics again.

Is the Board safe? Well, it is as safe as any social media outlet can be. However, because it is wide open for people from all around the world to read, I strongly suggest that you not post TMI. There have been times when angry spouses/partners have figured out where we are posting and come here and read, copy and print off info to be used by their lawyers when it comes to separation and divorce situations. Even secured platforms can be hacked from time to time. Even other platforms have the authority to censure what is being discussed and/or banning posters.

I would respectfully expand the definition of safety in the following way: when someone disappears, and people don't expect it, it can be shocking. It inevitably leads to questions. Some of those questions should remain unanswered for privacy reasons, but to say nothing tends to make already skittish people uneasy. That's the level of safety which could be addressed perhaps in a more proactive way.

Look, we don't arrive here skipping onto the boards whistling a happy tune while tossing rose petals into the air. We come here traumatized. Doesn't take a whole lot to trigger a newcomer. Sometimes things happen that can blindside even a vet and trigger them. That happened to me just this morning IRL, in fact, and brought me to tears as I cycled through sadness, grief, a sense of betrayal and wondering why there was no opportunity given to discuss something before being cut off. Stuff happens, is my point. This doesn't mean everyone needs to know "why" --- but timing is everything. A simple, quick post initiated at the time of the ban saying "It was an executive decision, which is between the poster and the admin" would I think have alleviated a lot of the subsequent concerns. Timely communication is key, I think, tempered with sensitivity and compassion. There are ways to set limits with a gentle touch for people who are feeling vulnerable. Surely we who have been here a while should use situations like this one as an opportunity to practice the DB techniques we preach. Just my humble post-mortem on that particular situation.

For the last year, we have been lenient with posters when it comes to posting other sites, the language and discussion topics. However, with the Board getting a fresh look, we will be going back to editing language, deleting links and identifying other sites that are deleted unless they are directly related to Divorcebusting in some way.

Posters tend to forget that this is a spinoff of Michele's business and she is the one calling the shots when it comes to whether or not we have permission to post here. When we requested a UserId/password, we agreed to follow the Board's rules/policies. We are very lucky that she does not charge a membership fee like other Boards do.

BTW, I hope that one day, Michele will write another book and include more topics that the posters are concerned about.

Here is my final take on the changes that are going to take place, each and every one of us has the freedom of choice, we can either leave or stay and see what happens when the new changes take place. I would hope that posters will stay and continue to provide sage advice and/or guidance to the newbies. However, if you wish to leave, I want to wish each of you the very best. Many of you have been here a very long time and have accomplished so much. You have given sage advice/guidance over the years. Even though you may not have saved your marriage, you saved yourself. Be proud of what you have accomplished.

No, bttrly, I have not taught you well. You did that all on your own.

Job, someone had to lead the way to show the rest of us the path. You more than anyone else did that for me, and I'm grateful.

[job]

bttrfly,

Please remember that some of what I posted yesterday are just my opinions on certain subjects. My response yesterday was me wearing two hats, i.e., moderator and long time poster. BTW, I am not pointing fingers at anyone. We all have strayed from the mission of the Board one time or another. We get caught up in each other's lives and come to catch up with our friends and newbies and tend to forget that we are not sitting in a cafe, bistro, etc. We tend to forget that the Board is not a "secured" one whereby only the members can see what is posted.

I can assure all that no one person makes the "management" decisions around here. All three moderators, Administrator and Michele discuss whatever the issue/situation is and then Michele will make the final decision.

As for deleting your threads that are tucked away. I'm going to leave them for a bit. If you want them archived, I can move them over when the time comes. There are a lot of "pearls of wisdom" in them.

Like you, I came here many years ago...looking for answers and to compare notes with the posters. I did a lot of research and came back here and shared what I had learned along the way. My divorce was finalized in 2002, and like many of the old timers, I opted to stay and pay it forward whenever possible.

After many years, we had lost a number of our moderators, so I stepped up to the plate to offer my time to the Board because I felt I owed a lot of what I learned to this place and to the people who were here and have since left to live their lives to the fullest in the real world.

I don't post as often as I should, but I do a lot of reading and saying "yes" to the postings. It's a new day and we all have so much to look forward to. Spring is just around the corner which means new beginnings.

Each and every poster that is currently on this Board, go to a mirror and look at yourself and say "I am worthy and I am a good, kind person. I will do my very best each and every day."

Each and every poster is a success story in their own way. I have watched so many come and go and am so proud of all of them. They came here broken, confused, angry, etc., and when they healed, they because such beautiful people once more, i.e., very much like the life cycle of a butterfly.

[bttrfly]

I would prefer my threads be deleted, thank you.

There is information there which may make it easy to find me IRL and I'd rather not have that readily available.

Thank you.

[bttrfly]

^^^ referring to the threads you've archived, to be clear.

[Cadet]

^^^ referring to the threads you've archived, to be clear.

No that was not too clear.

[bttrfly]

I'm pretty busy here right now, and know you're all working hard on getting the new site up so I wanted to quickly post to delete those specific threads to give you more archive room while you were working on it. I did not have the time to quote the paragraph in Job's previous post. I thought that since it has the blue arrow in the yellow subject line, you would see the previous post I was referring too.

All in all, no worries Cadet. Consider it my contribution to freeing up valuable server space for the archives.

Job, while those observations are your personal opinion, they do offer the kind of guidelines I was looking for with regards to appropriate posts for helping people navigate a post-D existence. (Un?)fortunately, a big part of post-D existence is the reality of new relationships, how to meet new people, as well as how to deal with dating in the present, which apparently is a whole lot different than it used to be. While some topics are perhaps better addressed on other sites, that's a whole big, scary mess to a lot of folks and it's natural to turn to the people we've shared a virtual foxhole with since BD/finding this place. I do believe the skills learned here translate and can only help future relationships of all kinds, not merely romantic ones.

[bttrfly]

testing the edit button for Cadet ...