Hi again, LL,

I'd hoped that you'd be telling me your r with w is finally what you want.

me too.


HEY, I'm not sure exactly how to take that! I know I can come off as brash or cold or even condesending at times but when people continue to try to get their point across in a way that communicates to me that they aren't fully understanding my position what can I do but be honest.

That was my point, really. As great as the advice youíre receiving is, youíve tried pretty much all of it before, and youíve also told people that youíve tried it before. I donít see you as brash, cold, or condescending.

But I sure see you as frustrated Ė both with respects to not getting results from your DB efforts, and for trying to explain why you arenít getting results.

On the other hand, there are signs of hope for you. I think youíre too tired and frustrated to act on them, and I can certainly understand that!

As to the rest of it, I completely agree. In principle. When I say I still have hope, I mean yes. I have hope. For someday. But I bury that hope because thereís no reason or evidence for me to have hope. Truthfully, things have got much much worse since the last time I posted to you. My M has truly got to the point where I have no interaction with my W outside parenting, and housework (which, of course, we do separately). If I were to actually feel hope, Iíd die.

Itís one of those things that comes under the category of ďYour values and feelings cannot be reduced to words.Ē I guess the closest I can come to explaining it is that I compartmentalize my feelings. If W doesnít shrink away when I kiss her, or when I place my hand against her leg while she sleeps, I enjoy the moment.

And then itís gone. Canít dwell on it.

but with out a reciporically intimate r with my intended life long parnter aren't I missing something? acceptance of "that's just the way it is" isn't going to fill that void it's just (in my opion) giving in.

I too feel very empty sometimes. W says Iím being negative

Iíve given up trying to persuade her. That hasnít worked in years. She only treats me the way she wants to be treated, and the way she thinks I deserve to be treated. And the way she feels capable of treating me. Quite honestly, itís probably the same attitude I had towards her. What Iíve found out about myself is that I not only underestimated the impact of this attitude on my Wís feelings, but I underestimated myself. I was capable of more. Iím adamant that I wonít underestimate myself again.



The key word is seek, LL. I think the reason you donít go for it is because there are no guarantees that thingsíll be better in the long run.

In part that is very true but not all of the equation.

Yeah. I know.

Andy...I don't look at you as a doormat...I look at you as someone who's still got hope and desire but what's going to happen to you and your r with w when that hope and desire burn out like the expectations have? that's kind of where I am now...sure there are sparks of hope left but not enough to start the fire and eventually without tending too those sparks may go out too...what then?

My greatest fear throughout my DB-ing was that I would work so hard Ė by myself - on OR that the sparks would go out, but surprisingly, they didnít. The only explanation I have for that is that I could see the error she was making when she vilified me. I decided not to fall into the same trap.

If you want to try my methodology, LL, it would simply be to take pleasure when your H calls you during the day. Say yes, and enjoy it when he makes advances on you. Have supper with your H when heís home early enough, and talk to him. Enjoy his company.

And donít expect consistency. Thatíll only come if you donít expect it of him.

So there ya go. More of the same advice youíve been getting all along

And once again, itís advice only you can follow. Wish I could talk to your H.