Originally Posted by wayfarer
Yeah me having this crazy requirement that men don't talk about women like they're another species and that some how in no way are equal, as well as, refusing to live in a magical land where people some how lack entirely either traditional masculine or feminine traits definitely makes me a man hater. Oh, ok. I was willing to roll with the joke previously because it felt like a joke. It doesn't any more. Seriously, if I hated men that much I'd be single, stay single and use men. But I don't. I love and respect men, just as much as I love and respect women and non-binary people. Simply because I won't kowtow to many times over debunked gender pseudo-science does not mean I hate anyone. The fact is if what I'm saying is offensive when I stand up for how trite, belittling and reductionist those statements are about women or those with effeminate traits I think that says a lot more about the reader than the writer. I'm not asking that an entire sex be wiped out. I'm asking to not have an entire group of people be reduced to a monolith and forced into a box of archaic expectations. That's not hate. That's called self respect. This isn't a zero sum game. And the fact that that has to be said is sad.

Also to clarify and simply because I was asked by R2C, I don't like when my H acts like a child, not "feminine", like a child petulant or otherwise. I'm not his mother. Children have problems with emotional regulation, because they are children. Children have problem with boundaries because they are children. Children have problems anticipating or fully understanding the needs of others because their not yet fully formed brains make them self focused as their little bodies and minds are functioning on a much lower level of Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. Children have difficulty putting the needs of other's first for the same reason. Adults who behave like children well into their 30s, 40s and 50s are a turn off for literally every one. Men and women alike, and I've met both. H and I, like every other human person on the planet, brings both masculine and feminine energy and traits into our relationship. I however due to years and years of therapy and being forced, either by chance or circumstance, am more emotionally and intellectually mature. Our situation has forced him a long here, and hopefully in the years to come he can further address his arrested development in a professional setting so we can continue to grow together.

My only ask is: Please do not assume that because one recognizes differences between the sexes, that they are "belittling and reductionist". I have often recognized one of the irrefutable differences in the sexes, the ability of women to give birth to a new human-being, as one of the indicators that women are stronger than men!

But do I think men and women approach things like relationships, marriage and sex in very different ways? I absolutely do. And I think we'd be doing LBSs of both sexes a complete disservice to pretend that they do not. But the mere recognition of differences in the sexes in no way inherently elevates one gender over the other. I am not saying that there are not those that do that, but framing everyone that recognizes differences between men and women as "belittling and/or reductionist", is in and of itself reductionist. (WF, I am not saying that is what you were trying to suggest, but some could read your response above as saying just that.) I'd also point out that MWD herself recognizes the differences between men and women in her own writings and words.

I also think that the differences in perspectives of the posters here is why this forum works. We are not always going to agree on everything, but the advice comes from a place of trying to help the LBS that is being responded to. And the LBSs themselves can decide what advice they value and what advice they do not. This is why I try to not disagree directly with the advice of others. I just state my perspective, what I believe is helpful to the LBS, and if that differs from another poster's perspective and advice then so be it.

Last edited by SteveLW; 05/10/21 02:55 PM.

M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018