Originally Posted by wooba
He apologized for hurting you and his lying and betrayal. How is that different from "saying sorry that it happened?" Sorry, I'm not really understanding this part.
He didn't say all those things (it was a mistake, he never loved her), but are those the things what you want him to say?
What if he never sees the A as a mistake because he actually fell in love with her, but at the same time he feels remorse for the hurt that he's caused you?

Welllllll... this is the rub, isn't it? Why isn't what he is saying good enough for me? I need to sit with this. I think I'm letting my reconciliation fantasy get in the way of reality, maybe. Esther Perel says it is enough for the WS to be truly remorseful that they hurt the other person-- they don't have to regret it in its entirety, because it may have been an important, life-giving experience for them. I get this, intellectually. I think you're right in that he did fall in love with her. I get it, sometimes. But it is slippery to hold onto knowing that and being okay with that, for me, right now. I guess I WANT it to have been all a fantasy and mistake and he tells me it wasn't really love, just a sad figment of a mini MLC. (I feel a bit like Veruca Salt right now... I want I want I want!) For whatever reason, where I am right now, just being sorry he hurt me, his lies and betrayal... it doesn't feel like ENOUGH. Maybe it should be. Maybe it will be, with time. I'm glad he isn't just telling me what i want to hear, at least. He could, and he isn't.

Originally Posted by wooba
Also reading about your anger, it reminds me of what my S11 told me the other day - "When a teacher yells at me at school, I just turn stone-faced." What he meant was that he would do nothing and say nothing. he would have zero facial expression. This is my son's defense mechanism when he's in a hostile situation. Which I think works sometimes (you do not add fuel to the fire), but other times it can be unhealthy. There is a lack of communication. So when you say "I don't care" to your H, it definitely translates to way worse than "I don't care about the dirty spoon".

Yes, you're right. I think I need to find the right calibration of how not to feel angry and resentful myself in those situations while still being a mature (not 11 year old) communicator.

Originally Posted by wooba
How will you ever know whether he is over A or not? even if he states so, will you believe him 100%? Sometimes it takes blind faith.

Yeah. Not something I can answer today. Except that generally I err on the side of trusting too much. The dumb thing is I already am trusting him on a lot of this and need to always remind myself that he lied for a long long time.

Originally Posted by wooba
Wish I could visit you one day! smile

Yes!!!!! Maybe MWD should have a conference or something where we could all attend and spend a week together at a resort or something, sipping umbrella drinks and ogling the pool boys. wink

Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing