Still taking it a day at a time

[SteveLW]

wayfarer just a follow-up. Where do you see him trying?

As an outside observer what this looks like to me is that after this PA, he is trying to go back to MR 1.0. May is wanting MR 2.0. I like your point about her not being explicit. I am guessing that May is afraid to be explicit because it may break this fragile armistice that exists between them. May wants more than what they have. Her H wants things to go back to "normal". If her H doesn't get what he wants, he will use the threat of the OW and/or D, to try to get May to be more the way he wants her to be.

I feel like May is afraid of D, and while dissatisfied with the state of things, would take that over her H cheating and potentially leaving. If she pushes him to give more, then she is afraid he will raise the specter of D again or be pushed back into the arms of the OW.

I have a theory that a lot of times the WAS will use D as a threat to get their LBS to back away. I know I think my W used it during her WW period, and I now doubt if she ever really considered following through. When I confronted her about her EA, she got me to back off by saying "I don't want to be married anymore." This is why I try to get LBSs to drop their fear of D, because that fear can be leveraged by the WAS/WS.

May, at this point what are you more afraid of? D or remaining in your current state forever?

Actually Steve I see this situation being a lot like yours. Your W was not remorseful when you caught her the second time. I am pretty sure at that point if you required anything from her or acted like a dick she would have divorced you. You played the long game and ate a lot of $hit sandwiches because you didn't want a divorce and it worked out for you.

My point being is if I am May's husband and she's pursued me for two years trying to get me to end my affair and I end it and think I am trying and she continues to blow up at me I am eventually going to give up. More of the same behavior that I ran from in the first place.

I know it sounds crazy but if I had a two year affair I really had to be angry at her or I am a sociopath.

I will say it again, with out remorse it is very hard to reconcile. Sometimes it takes years for remorse.

Actually, I think the big difference is that pretty early on in my sitch I began to embrace the idea of her leaving and us getting a D. Yes, I made it clear that it wasn't what I wanted, but I dropped the fear of it within the first couple of weeks, and started to move forward as if that was the inevitable end. I tell the story all the time about how that first week, when we were meeting her family for Christmas dinner, as we got ready I said "Wow, hard to believe this will be the last time I have Christmas dinner with your family." (Just for background, I have an amazing relationship with her family, there is mutual admiration.) She almost immediately backed down and said "Well this is why I didn't want to say anything before the holidays, I thought after the holidays I might feel differently." The minute I started to embrace the fate, and even move on mentally and emotionally, she started to back away from it.

I also need to correct you. While I probably ate more crap sandwiches than I should have, I certainly would not characterize it as "a lot". One of the things I learned the first time in 2005 was to not accept disrespect. And after my first 2 days of moping and acting defeated, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and stood up for myself. There were many times I told her I wouldn't put up with her behavior/disrespect and walked away. And I also have been vocal that one of the most empowering moments in my situation was when I consulted with a D attorney. And then started to dictate the terms of what a D settlement would look like to her.

The point I think for May here is that she has to be CLEAR what she requires for Ring and piecing. Allowing him to slink back into MR 1.0, without working on the issues that opened him up to the OW to begin with, is a recipe for future disaster.

I would argue that May is in a situation I was in post EA/sitch 2005. And I made many of the same mistakes then that May is making now that led to EA/sitch 2017.

So yes, remorse on the cheating spouse's part is a must. But another must is the LBS knowing what they want in Ring and piecing, and clearly articulating that to their WAS....and having the backbone to adhere to that.