Originally Posted by scout12
Gerda was absolutely right in saying it is pointless to try and dialogue with him. Not because he is in a fog, or hurting, or confused, but because THIS IS WHO HE IS at his core, and he has shown no willingness to examine HIS contribution to the marriage failure.

Scout, I just want to comment on your quotin' me since I know that a lot of people read these things long after posters move off from the forum and I think we need to make sure that we all have left the right breadcrumbs in the dark MLC forest.

I do believe it is pointless to dialogue with the MLCer. I wish I had understood that long before, and I keep looking for ways to say it in a way that a new LBS will be able to understand, because it takes most of us so long to get to that point. I understand now that it is the only way to stay sane, because you train yourself to stop hearing the lies and to focus on your own life by having no contact or as little contact as possible.

But I say that in the service of restoration.

I am not commenting on your choice to divorce and would not dare weigh in on that.

But I wanted to be clear that I wrote that as a way to offer a tip for someone who does want to stand. I never understood what dropping the rope and going no contact really meant, all these years. I thought I was letting go, and I most certainly did build a life for myself during my H's MLC. But I continued to engage with far too much of his insanity even though compared to a marriage, I rarely engaged him at all. It was hard because we had a business together and lived together. But I didn't set the right boundaries. I never understood that a loving boundary actually is as much no contact as is possible within whatever your circumstances are. I always thought I had to keep being loving and open as a way of showing him the door was open. Now I know he can't even see that there is a door there. If he ever comes out of MLC, he will see the door, whether it's open or shut. And even if it's shut, a truly woken-up MLCer will knock on it. So there is no point in standing near the door, watching the door, painting the door yellow or boarding up the door. The MLCer can't see the door or you behind it.

But for those who want to stand, to outlast the MLC, I just want to say that no contact, an end to engagement, is loving too.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.