Dear Big John,

Thanks for explaining about your son and how that all happened. It helps a lot.

Regarding Father's Day, I can't really blame you for feeling the way you did or for even taking the actions you did. However, it did not benefit anyone except the OM. That is what you need to try to remember the next time you are tempted to dish back what she's been throwing at you.

It gets very complicated in these R's b/c if you disrespect her, then she will act even worse. You are correct, she is rebelling and she will beoome more like a kid the more you try to hand it back. In some ways, but hard to explain, you have to think of her in these terms. Try to see the outcome and who is going to benefit in the end (like on Father's Day).

I realize you said what you did out of anger and I am sure I would have felt just like you did, but anytime you tell her why doesn't she talk to the OM or go see him........THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT SHE WILL DO! That is her way of "showing you" and getting back at you for saying that. Although, I'm certain she would have talked to OM on Father's Day at any rate b/c she had the opportunity.

It makes me sick to think of this woman talking so openly about her EA. The fact that her children know is terrible. I mean, it's bad enough but for the kids' sake.......I really hate they found out. It has nothing to do with "exposing" the A. It has everything to do with the age of your children and the fact that they can't handle what she is doing. I would have flipped if I had been you and heard the three-year old refer to OM and "daddy"! That is carrying it way too far and you can bet that baby has been "taught" to say that. Babies do not know to call a stranger "Daddy OM". So, your wife probably taught the child that b/c she thought it was cute and wanted OM to hear. Makes me sick!!

I don't know that this would work at all b/c it is very, very difficult to get anywhere in conversation with WAW's and even if she agreed, how long would she stick with it? Therefore, if I were you, one of my boundaries would certainly be that the OM not be discussed to or in front of your three-year old child... nor that the child be coaxed into calling him by name. You need to decide what the consequenses will be if she breaks that boundary and make it severe enough that she won't take those chances.

You need to think about the other children and their welfare. The oldest is having problems already, and I think you are wise to be concerned. I think I would discuss it with your C before just taking them in with you. The C may want to see one at a time or whatever. Also, ask the C how you should approach the kids about going.....if the C thinks he/she should see your sons. Your W probably won't like it b/c she doesn't "see" the damage she's doing, but it doesn't have to take care of them. It seems that sobmebody who is not emotionally involved (like you are) should give them some guidance. They obviously know something very wrong is going on.

Your W must be in a SERIOUS fog to be that messed up!! Even when I was at my worst, I never wanted anybody to know, and if my children had been little, I don't think I would have wanted to them to find out about my EA. I mean, this woman is still in the early fantasy stages and it hasn't become a PA (and hopefully it won't). I know she "thinks" it will become a PA and that they are going to live happily ever after, but she is in for a rude awakening. If I were you and had to resort to legal help, then whatever it took to protect the children......I'd do it.

Anyway, back to the boundaries......I think in many ways the WAW has to be treated like a rebelious teen. In order to keep them from completely destroying everyone they touch, and to maintain your own self-respect, you have to have limitations to what you will put up with. Don't tell her what you will put up with, but do tell her what you Will NOT allow. But also understand that you cannot control her actions. That is the difference and why it is difficult to explain between boundaries and controling. If she chooses to do something that you won't sit back and allow without any action.....then she must suffer the consequenses of her actions. The key word being "suffer"......again just as with teenagers. What they suffer must hurt more than the pleasure they would have received from doing whatever it was they chose to do. For example, if you told her that you never wanted her to talk to OM in front of the children......and then you found out that she had.......what could you do that would make her never want to take that chance again? Of course, I am not suggesting any physical abuse to her......I'm sure you realize that! You also must know that you can't just say..."No more contact with OM", b/c she will find a way to make contact, but it doesn't have to be talking over the phone in front of your sons! You need to break it down and be specific. She needs to know where you stand on certain issues. Be reasonable.....if that makes sense. It is not reasonable for her to think she can have an EA, but I mean where your children are concerned and also about showing you respect in front of them. If I were in your place, I would certainly want my W to show respect toward me in front of my sons. They will learn how to have R's with women by watching their parents. If you lay down the boundaries and tell her that if she does XYZ that you will be forced to do 123....then she may think that 123 is not worth doing XYZ, and it will keep her within the boundaries. See what I mean?

Her declaration that she is going to take the kids with her out of state in August to see her family AND go on discrete dates with OM without the kids knowledge I feel is unacceptable.

Yes, it is unacceptable. Her talking about OM is unacceptable. You will have to make the decision to either keep them from visiting the family or trust those family members not to allow the children to be exposed to the OM. Only you can determine if you think that her family could be trusted to do that. If it is her parents and they know about OM, then you may want to consider discussing the situation of the children visiting them and unless you can have their cooperation, then the kids won't be going. The problem there is her finding out about your intent of legal help and then she stoops to doing other drastic measures, so you have to be careful. It is all so sticky. Even if the grandparents assured you that the kids would not be around OM, she apparently wants them to know I think she would sneak them out if necessary. I am kind of blowing in the wind here b/c I frankly don't know what to advise. She will resist anything you try to say or do, so you have to bear that in mind, whatever you decide. Remember, whatever you say to her, be prepared to back it up.......that is why you don't need to allow her to bait you into a fight. When tempers flare, that is when threats are made.

I've made another longer post than I meant to! Anyway, do think carefully about the boundaries and what her consequenses would be if they were broken. Don't threaten her b/c she will rebell to "show" you what she'll do. Do put the walfare of your children before anything else.

Don't know that I've been much help, but I'll be around if you need to talk. It is a very hard road, but I am proof that things can turn around and be normal again. It is important that she show you respect, even if she doesn't like you! So, don't give up and keep improving on yourself. Don't pursure her b/c almost everything you say and do will be preceived as pursuing! The more time you take for you and the kids, the better. Keep pulling back from her in order to detach emotionally.

Take care,

It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!