Re: I'm Back after 1st DB (6)

[Traveler]

Hi tt180,

It probably seems like we're taking the narcissist charge lightly. Most people claim their ex was a narcissist. An old friend and I were joking about that on our trip this weekend. She looks for being past that phase and seeing ex's more clearly as a sign of dating readiness.

Maybe yours is one? But onto you. "Battles" take two and rarely turn out well for its participants. Own your role in these interactions and consider what you can do to change the dynamic.

abuses me in email daily,

For example, instead of frustration, you could opt out of these. Direct legal e-mails to your attorney, co-parenting e-mails to a co-parenting app. Setup a filter so her e-mails go directly to a junk folder unseen for now. True story--I didn't read my ex's e-mails for the first 2yrs post-divorce.

Setting YOUR boundaries doesn't require any cooperation from her.

I guess that's going dark minus the validation and empathy.

That's too bad. Those skills can minimize conflict and maximize your outcome.

now is attempting to impede on my custody days demanding to see the children every day.

Deep breaths. She wants to see her kids as much as possible, as many parents do. I'm hopeful you took our advice and got a legally binding custody order before moving out? If so, her attorney needs to make a much more compelling case than your attorney to change the status quo.

[Josh71]

I should qualify my comment about DB. Yeah, I'm doing all of those things for me, I'm just not doing any of them with nex. Anything I say can lead to a fight if I'm not careful. Even an innocent comment like "not today, I'm tired" can open the door to a rant about her being tired with the kids.

I know this forum talks about Narcassists making up 4% of the population, but I dunno if that includes the whole spectrum. My nex is of the covert kind, very insidious because it's so not obvious on the outside. I still think people on this forum deal with them in a higher proportion by virtue that a relationship with a narc isn't possible. If my nex is not a narc, then let's call it a personality disorder, it doesn't matter the label, she has no ability to love, little empathy, and solely focused on her above everyone else. My point on this is that understanding it helps me to reflect on the dynamic of our entire marriage, and its helped me to understand why I was attracted to this person and what it is about me that needed her in my life. A lot of that had to do with my saviour mentality and neglect of my personal self-care. No differentiation. But then, you can't differentiate with a narc. The minute you don't reflect her, you get conflict.

The key now is to rediscover myself and to be free to do so. And that is what I like about my current sitch. I can.

My change in dynamic is grey rock, ignoring her rants, and keeping emails short and to the point. And using lawyers when required. It's soul sucking, but at least having moved out, I have a safe, quiet place. The days I don't talk to her are therapeutic. I avoid the arguments and battles the best I can, usually with comments like "you know that's not true" or "I'm choosing to follow the Parenting Plan". What I like is that without daily face face contact, I'm much more in control of my reactions.

Consent orders are court orders. Nothing about my Parenting Plan is legally binding. We have to fail mediation before applying to the court for orders. It's an Australian thing to ease the burden on the courts. Because she isn't demonstrating a willingness to follow the Parenting Plan, I have to eventually force mediation and stick to my boundaries. The worst outcome would be if mediation works because it just means that there are no consequences when she breaks the plan down the road.

I've always had time with kids, but it was always on her terms. My time is uninterrupted and of better quality. One month on, I see the difference.

I think they key is that my future will be rough still, selling the house and financial settlement won't be easy. But I see the future, and I like it. It's coming together.

FWIW, I have no interest in a relationship ATM, including anything with my first ex. I am nowhere ready, nor do I even have any desire for that with the ex. As I said, we only have short chats every week or so, catching up on lost time. I just find it weird that this happened at this moment in life. But it's nice we can share our similar experiences.

[Traveler]

Hi t180,

I know this forum talks about Narcassists making up 4% of the population, but I dunno if that includes the whole spectrum.

Upto 5% is a common estimate of people with NPD, whether overt or covert.

I still think people on this forum deal with them in a higher proportion by virtue that a relationship with a narc isn't possible.

I'd buy that--so, maybe upto 7.5% of WAS.

If my nex is not a narc, then let's call it a personality disorder, it doesn't matter the label, she has no ability to love, little empathy, and solely focused on her above everyone else.

Researcher and author Craig Malkin, PhD, suggests that the term "covert" can be misleading. In the field of psychology, behavior can be described as overt or covert. Covert narcissists are only different from overt (more obvious) narcissists in that they tend to be more introverted. Both overt and covert narcissists need to meet the same clinical criteria to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, whether they are extroverted or introverted.

Maybe your ex is the exception and a narcissist. I don't know. What I can say is your legal strategy doesn't seem to align. If I recall correctly, you gave up 50/50 custody of your littlest one because you thought it was better for her to be with her mom than you. That's nonsensical if your ex only loves herself and has a significant behavioral disorder like NPD. NPD parenting isn't pretty. The people I know with NPD ex's fought for as much custody as they could get and usually won.

My change in dynamic is grey rock. I avoid the arguments and battles the best I can, usually with comments like "you know that's not true"

That doesn't sound like grey rock.

If she does love her kids and just not you--poof! There goes the behavior disorder and it's more typical "conflicted" parenting with many sites to help, e.g. I Googled "AUSTRALIA HOW TO RESOLVE CONFLICT WITH YOUR CO-PARENT". The more you can do to improve your side of the interactions, the better for the kids. For a cautionary tale, see Wolfman's thread.

[Traveler]

Hi tt180,

I hope my key points make sense to you:

1. If she's that broken, your role as parent demands protecting your kids by minimizing her custody. Earlier you were giving up 50/50 custody out of general concerns that switching homes wasn't ideal for a 1-2 y/o. The alleged mental disorder overrides general considerations. Joseph and I went this route with our ex-wives.

2. If she's not that broken, your role as a parent demands dropping the villainizing narrative and figuring out what YOU can do to foster a better parenting relationship. Beyond that being best for the kids, feuding with the parent who has more custody rarely works out well. I'm now (after a time) on this path with my ex-wife.

I hope you find the right path for you to be free of drama while keeping your kiddos safe!

[Josh71]

I thought I'd dip back in.

I'm full on in court. I have finally got suitable temporary orders. Australia simply doesn't recognise 50/50 for young children based on the research. I got the best I can until she's 5, where typically 50/50 occurs. Which was always my point. Nex tried to reduce contact with my kids and it didn't work.

Ex is full on abusing and twisting where she can, but it doesn't affect me. Court ignores it and and she is losing. I ignore it.

Regardless of what people think or say here, I'm dealing with a personality disorder. And I am taking on as much parenting as I can whilst trying to minimise the impact of counter parenting. The kids are in therapy and so far so good. They just know Mum and Dad don't talk and sometimes Mum does mean things.

Narcassim doesn't mean I'll ever be free of drama, but the combination of parallel parenting and court orders has put the kids in the best possible place for success. It means I accept nex will never change and I just implement strategies and techniques to deal with it.

I've spent over a year on a narc support forum as well as personal therapy to get to the point where I find that dealing with nex is just a job and I assume nothing. I act like I'm just a single parent.

Eight months on, nothing has changed in terms of "battles". She'll try to create them whenever she can. What's changed is my reaction. Steadfast boundaries.

Actually, I'm now starting to date, and it's refreshing to experience all sorts of different people and to meet people who are accepting of my situation. What a shock to date normal caring empathetic people. Been so long since I experienced that.

Anyway, I'm always grateful for the forum even though ultimately my marriage wasn't salvageable.

[dunnm]

Hey TT, things have changed around here but sounds like you have to. Good to read your update, you appear to be doing the best that can be expected.
Keep on keeping on.

[Ready2Change]

Eight months on, nothing has changed in terms of "battles". She'll try to create them whenever she can. What's changed is my reaction. Steadfast boundaries.

Great 180.