Riding the Wave 3

[wayfarer]

Just journaling because it's been a while. We are still slow and steady. There have been more grill outs. We're at an even split of just him and I going and going as a family. The most recent one was kind of a big step. It was at my bffs house. H knows she knows all. He knows her H knows all. He's been very hesitant around them but went all in and had a great time. We all did. The previous grill out he was making a lot of "we" comments again. H had a convo with a friend's W about WFH and how he doesn't like that I'm answering emails or doing work off the clock simply because my "office" is in front of me at all times now, and that I over worked myself at my last job and that he hates to see that happen again. She said she does it too, because it's really hard not to. It was sweet to see him actually concerned about me. And my well being. I know he is. I know he was. But he was terrified to let anyone else know. He was tagged in pictures with me on facebook. He never removed the tag. He liked the pictures. Baby steps on social media too I suppose.

H has been focusing more on one on one time with the kids and time with both of them without me. Which I think is also why I'm having these pseudo dates with H. Him getting out with the girls gives me more time to work on my masters program or other GAL and more time for him to repair this gap with him and the girls. This is something that really, really needed to happen for them. Kids adapt quickly, and him doing what he can in his way to make up for his time leaving them in the dust has made a huge difference in the girls attitude directly and indirectly towards him. D16 is here more and more now. Which makes all of us, minus D17, happy... bless teenage girls, so kind and considerate.

H is still sleeping on the couch full time, but slept with me one night this past weekend, and took a nap with me yesterday. So I suppose that's baby steps too. At the start of lock down he back peddled a lot on sleeping in the bed with me because the girls were up so much later than us. They were around all the time. It was hard for him to get in and out unnoticed. He had really been on this whole he doesn't want to get their hopes up thing. He's slowly getting more affectionate with me around them and caring less about what it looks like if he's in the MBR with me, (gasp) alone.

I'm just kind of waiting things out for the foreseeable future at this point. He desperately wants things at his pace. I can accomodate that. IC feels like as long as I remain in a position of personal growth that I'm not hurting myself or anything of real significance waiting him out. She wants me to start thinking about new goals in therapy, and what I'm going to need for an R. She wants to work on how I can communicate what I need to him in a way he'll be receptive because even in a healthy mental place H doesn't really get boundaries vs ultimatums or boundaries vs. control and manipulation. And I'm kind of a b*tch...lol.

I read a lot of DnJ and Iron Will to keep me on this zen path. Just letting thing naturally unfold and being as kind, compassionate and patient as possible, not just to H but to my kids and most importantly to myself.

IC brought up that it's interesting that during this covid time that a lot of couples are falling apart but H and I, although slow, are steadily pulling together. I told her that I'm not entirely surprised. The foundation he and I had wasn't just a good one. It was a great one. I wouldn't have stuck this out if it wasn't. I've already had enough time in my life living in less than desirable living situations. I've had enough time in my life trying to make a square peg fit in a circle hole in relationships. I stand by what I said when I got here 7 months ago, I'll admit what we had wasn't perfect, but it was good, really good. I'm not standing because I'm scared of being alone. I'm not standing because I'm scared of losing H. I'm not standing because I'm desperate. I'm not standing because I want to win. I'm standing because I know if he and I can get through this this is going to be a blip in time in our marriage. And if I can't, I get to walk away saying I tried or was willing to try everything.

[may22]

Hi Wayfarer,

Thanks for sharing this-- it is good to see things progressing! I think I need to get caught up on the IW and DnJ threads in case I end up in this continued limbo.

I like to hear that your IC feels positive about your continued personal growth. Can you share more about that part? The patience and control stuff, or are you focused in other areas? I'm also really glad to hear that the girls' relationship with him is improving. That is a big deal. Also, I would guess that every time he has a social interaction like this one that goes well he feels a little better about the future. I know we aren't supposed to mindread but holy cr@p, can you imagine being in his shoes? Knowing what he did and that you're still there, knowing that your friends know all, taking a deep breath and diving in and being friendly and putting it out there when he could have just as easily faked a headache and stayed home scared. I think these are all good signs. Even if he isn't crawling back on his hands and knees, he is saying to you that you matter, he's willing to sVck it up and be present and be kind and be your H in these situations even though it has got to be super uncomfortable for him.

IC brought up that it's interesting that during this covid time that a lot of couples are falling apart but H and I, although slow, are steadily pulling together. I told her that I'm not entirely surprised. The foundation he and I had wasn't just a good one. It was a great one. I wouldn't have stuck this out if it wasn't. I've already had enough time in my life living in less than desirable living situations. I've had enough time in my life trying to make a square peg fit in a circle hole in relationships. I stand by what I said when I got here 7 months ago, I'll admit what we had wasn't perfect, but it was good, really good. I'm not standing because I'm scared of being alone. I'm not standing because I'm scared of losing H. I'm not standing because I'm desperate. I'm not standing because I want to win. I'm standing because I know if he and I can get through this this is going to be a blip in time in our marriage. And if I can't, I get to walk away saying I tried or was willing to try everything.

THIS... all resonates so so much with me! I'm glad you shared it. I've been so frustrated about the fact that the COVID lockdown had actually been so positive for us. He mentioned it a ton throughout and then has brought it up multiple times post last-BD that it was so positive for us to have had this experience, regardless of what happens, we have had this time of closeness and fun and being supportive and there for each other. (We just didn't fall back crazily in love and have long LM sessions staring into each others' eyes, which it sounds like he was waiting for.) Meanwhile, our MC had 13 back to back appointments when H spoke with him last week because he has all these new clients whose Ms are falling apart.

One of the reasons I love you and love coming to your thread is this-- you can see so clearly both the good and the bad. I have such a hard time aligning both views of my H. I really respect and admire your ability to do that. I remember a long time ago you pushed back on the "PA? Why haven't you filed yet?? Don't you respect yourself??" questions win such a wise and thoughtful way... that PA = D as a knee-jerk reaction was no different from begging and pleading, just in the other direction; that if all LBSs felt that way there would be a lot less of us on the boards; that you had taken a clear-eyed look at the girls and what was best for them and it wasn't kicking him out right away. I just was overcome with admiration. I soooooo wish we knew each other IRL. I too want more than anything to know, in my heart of hearts, that I gave this 100%. I just don't want on the other end of this to have any question that I gave up on us.

Do you still have that one-year timeline ticking away in your head?

[Sage4]

WF, you amazing soul you. I had a darling friend in my 20's who had been in foster care since he was 3. Abused, dismissed, abandoned and treated like the scourge of the earth since his earliest memories. And he was the most loving, patient, joyful, appreciative, old-soul human beings I have ever met in my life. His wisdom eclipsed his upbringing and it was an absolute marvel to be in his company. You may or may not have had the same experiences as my friend, but your wisdom and old-soul nature is the same. And my admiration of you both is the same.

I recently finished reading Westo's posts from the beginning to the end of her H's MLC. And her frank 'I need to take care of me' attitude towards his long period of indifference reminds me of you. In fact, your story and attitude is exactly the recipe for success in all the of the success stories on this forum. Keep on keeping on. No expectations, my life is better than the sum of these moments, I will win with shear resolve (whether or not the relationship succeeds), all seem to be components of the success stories. I am no truth sayer, but if I had to hedge my bets, you are on the right path to success with H.

My question is this: what keeps you keeping on? Is it your commitment to your children? Is it your love for H? Is it the small steps he takes in the (and/or your) right direction? Is it your history with H? You intuition? Or are there other motives that make you step back and keep being compassionate and empathetic towards yourself, your M and your H? You seem to be the queen of the 30,000' view of life.

Your resolve, your compassion and your patience are a wonder.

In admiration,
S

[Core]

I've no doubt that you are stronger from and will remain so because of your circumstances. Your daughters inbetween their hormone filled rages are seeing a good example of how to adult. I got nothing to add to push you or getting you questioning anything. Rooting for you and the fam.

[cardinal]

Hi, Wayfarer. It's good to hear that your H is focusing on his relationship with the kids on his own. It seems like a good sign that there's some repair happening there no matter what. DnJ and IW's threads always help me take a breath and put things in perspective. Things here feel pretty zen too. You are simply standing in your beliefs, and, as may said, seeing things clearly for what they are. I love what you wrote on IW's thread:

I find peace in sitting still and letting this unfold naturally without my influence or interference when I read your words.

I feel that way when I read your words, too.

[wayfarer]

Thanks Core and Cardinal

May thank you for all your kind words. You always have a way of making me think and making me feel sure in my convictions.

I know we aren't supposed to mindread but holy cr@p, can you imagine being in his shoes? Knowing what he did and that you're still there, knowing that your friends know all, taking a deep breath and diving in and being friendly and putting it out there when he could have just as easily faked a headache and stayed home scared. I think these are all good signs. Even if he isn't crawling back on his hands and knees, he is saying to you that you matter, he's willing to sVck it up and be present and be kind and be your H in these situations even though it has got to be super uncomfortable for him.

I did think about that. With bff and her H it's a little less daunting. My H was friends with them first. He's known bff's H since high school and then bff since their early, early 20s when bff and her H started dating. Bff and I didn't meet until she was 24 and I was 26. So for him I think they were always the safest bet. This weekend we have a drive through/appointment only bday to attend. It's maid of honor's H's bday. My H is planning on coming with me. And those are "my friends" so we'll see. But I do see how big of a leap that was for him. And I've been there. I really do wish I could tell him how much I can see that he's trying here. But I don't want to seem pushy. And I don't want to start any conversation where I'm not sure that the outcome would be an outcome I can sleep at night after.

I've been so frustrated about the fact that the COVID lockdown had actually been so positive for us. He mentioned it a ton throughout and then has brought it up multiple times post last-BD that it was so positive for us to have had this experience, regardless of what happens, we have had this time of closeness and fun and being supportive and there for each other. (We just didn't fall back crazily in love and have long LM sessions staring into each others' eyes, which it sounds like he was waiting for.)

I kinda knew going in we were going to either tear each other apart or come closer together. There was going to be no in between given it had only been a couple of weeks after the break up that we were put in lock down together. Like you I'm grateful for this time for the girl's sake if nothing else. And all the amazing lock down whoopee. Also the LM with the staring into each other's eyes thing stresses me out and I need your H to explain that for me...lol. Reason being from the first time H and I started sleeping together again he's had this really weird thing about eye contact. Like it's way too much. Especially when I know he's going to get up and leave to sleep on the couch. I don't understand that at all. LIke I'm naked isn't that enough vulnerability. Do you really need to try to see if you can see into my soul at the same time?

One of the reasons I love you and love coming to your thread is this-- you can see so clearly both the good and the bad. I have such a hard time aligning both views of my H. I really respect and admire your ability to do that.

It's the crappy childhood and years and years working in courts. I know it goes against a lot of the grain around here but I'm sorry people aren't the sum of their actions. They just aren't. People in crisis, people who lack emotional maturity, people who lived most of their lives in survival mode just don't function on a higher plane of understanding. I'm a strong believer in meeting people where they are. I'm a strong believer of good people can do horrible things, hurt people, destroy lives, and not realize until after the fact how any of that transpired or their role in that. I had to grow up knowing that just because some one loves me doesn't mean they always have my best interests at heart. That some people just don't know how to love the way I do. And that's ok if I'm careful about how much I let myself love them. We're all light and dark. I'm not a saint because my sins are smaller. And he isn't the devil just because his transgressions were big.

I remember a long time ago you pushed back on the "PA? Why haven't you filed yet?? Don't you respect yourself??" questions win such a wise and thoughtful way... that PA = D as a knee-jerk reaction was no different from begging and pleading, just in the other direction; that if all LBSs felt that way there would be a lot less of us on the boards; that you had taken a clear-eyed look at the girls and what was best for them and it wasn't kicking him out right away. I just was overcome with admiration. I soooooo wish we knew each other IRL. I too want more than anything to know, in my heart of hearts, that I gave this 100%. I just don't want on the other end of this to have any question that I gave up on us.

One of the things around here is about knowing your core values. And frankly I know mine don't line up with a lot of people around here, but my core, who I am is a mother. I've always been. And my girls no matter what were coming first. My ego will always take a back seat to what's in their best interest. And I really wish I knew you IRL too. The kindred spirits on here honestly have kept me going as long as I have.

Do you still have that one-year timeline ticking away in your head?

Yes and no. The 1 year thing was really if he left and made no movement toward divorce or anything else permanent. And then when he changed course it was more ok well I'll give him until early November to make up his damn mind but I'm sure he'll move out in summer. Well now it's nearly mid-July. I'm getting morning texts thanking me for sandwiches and sex, and telling me how excited he is for our like hiking day trip we've planned this weekend. Since he's so tight lipped about what's going on in his head I will at some point here have to just break down and say something if he can't get to it on his own. But the 1 year thing is kinda out the window. If he can't bring himself in the bed until September and doesn't put his ring back on until October and won't even attempt MC until November so be it. I have no where else to be.


Sage, my god, you are always so insightful.

WF, you amazing soul you. I had a darling friend in my 20's who had been in foster care since he was 3. Abused, dismissed, abandoned and treated like the scourge of the earth since his earliest memories. And he was the most loving, patient, joyful, appreciative, old-soul human beings I have ever met in my life. His wisdom eclipsed his upbringing and it was an absolute marvel to be in his company. You may or may not have had the same experiences as my friend, but your wisdom and old-soul nature is the same. And my admiration of you both is the same.

I doubt my childhood was as rough as his. But I worked with kids like him for a very long time in court. And there's really only a few kinds of ways you can come out of a constant state of crisis and being in survival mode 24/7. Being able to meet people where they are, having an enormous amount of patience, and loving deeply is the best case scenario. And as I've told other people those good attributes come with ugly sides. It isn't all roses. I've worked thought a lot but when my c-PTSD rears it's ugly head I don't know if all that good heart stuff is worth it.

My question is this: what keeps you keeping on? Is it your commitment to your children? Is it your love for H? Is it the small steps he takes in the (and/or your) right direction? Is it your history with H? You intuition? Or are there other motives that make you step back and keep being compassionate and empathetic towards yourself, your M and your H? You seem to be the queen of the 30,000' view of life.

On the woowoo side ever hear of twin flames? H and I, that's who we are. It's who we've always been. I truly believe that everything that pushed us together, pulled us apart, and is pushing us back into place is exactly as it should be. The A was a huge catalyst in me moving on with my life. My life was at a stand still while my mother was sick, and then dying, and then gone. My depression took over everything. I had completely lost myself. I needed time to focus on me with zero hindrance of a MR in order to get myself back on track. No it isn't the way I would've wanted things to be to get back on track, but I needed a jolt. And this was it. On the logical side, we are what both of our girls know as stability and I won't let that slip away without a fight. They can't rely on their other parents. I desperately want to keep a space in this world that they see as home. And if it's me on my own at some point ok, but I'm not going to at least try to hold this together by myself as long as I can. On to the heart of the matter vs the head, I love H with my whole being. Even at his worst I loved him. I will love that man until the day I die. I don't feel like I'm losing time keeping on this path. I wouldn't be able to move on until my heart was done any way. Other factors include, he's the most helpful around the house he's ever been. We talk more about money now than we ever did. The sex life we have now is the one I was begging for for years. I have such a high drive there were points in our relationship and MR where we had gone weeks and months and I'd cry myself to sleep because I was convinced it was me. Part of me still kind of thinks it is. But right now H is the H I was fighting for years. Minus you know the refusal to say I love you, or sleeping next to me at night or cuddling on the couch when the kids are around. He does keep inching along here. Is it as quickly as I would've liked? God, no. But this whole thing is an exercise in patience and control. Exercises I desperately needed in this life. So if I have to keep moving along at his pace I'm ok with it. The foundation we're built on is a really really good one. And I can keep this burned, broken palace standing on my own for a little while longer, so I do. And if it gets to heavy and he's still not there to help me fix it up, then I'll walk away. I'm unafraid of what my life is without him in it. I think that helps too. I know what that looks like and it's a peaceful quiet place too. So for me I think it's most about letting things just unfold as they should.

[may22]

Wayfinder,

I heart you as always.

Just wanted to quickly say:

One of the things around here is about knowing your core values. And frankly I know mine don't line up with a lot of people around here, but my core, who I am is a mother. I've always been. And my girls no matter what were coming first. My ego will always take a back seat to what's in their best interest.

resonated with me so, so much. That is who I am, too. I'm a mom. it is the core of my identity. (And probably part of why I stopped really being interested in my H for so long, too... but that is in the past.)

I'm happy for you, WF. I want a peaceful quiet place of my own.

[wayfarer]

May I totally spaced on your personal growth question. So this whole this kind of converged with my recovery from depression. My depression has a lot to do with the abuse I had to endure with my step father. My mom being sick and dying forced me into his proximity regularly and it was kind of a downward spiral. I also have no biological father in my life. Although he is currently stalking me on social media. He walked away before I was born and didn't bother to look for me until I was 15 and then again at 25, and again at 35 because he's apparently the stalker I never wanted. My mother loved me very very much, but my mother was young and while I was a year younger when I became a mom I was light years ahead in maturity and preparedness. I live for D17. I read all the what to expect books. I read tons of baby and toddler books. I had nannied before I was pregnant and while I was pregnant. There was never a barely 19 year old more prepared for a kid this side of a 50 year life expectancy. My mom was not. I was raised mostly by my grandparents. She was around to tuck me in at night most nights. She came to my concerts. She did some very mom things around my school. But in the end it was my grandparents who picked me up, helped me with home work fed me dinner, took care of me when I was sick, took me to church, took me on vacation, watched me while she went to school, and worked, and dated, and had a pretty normal life for a person in their 20s. So needless to say I have abandonment issues.

This really, really messed me up with the issues I've been working with for years. When he was angry and spiteful his tantrums would flare up my PTSD. Him disappearing and forgetting the girls at school or what have you kind of made me back track with dealing with the whole abandonment thing. Oh top of all that my personality type. I do like to micromanage the universe if I can, but that's a trauma response. I am A type and that grinds people. I've had to work really, really hard on different communication techniques, because frankly once I'm p!ssed off I'm done listening. Once you're patently wrong I'm done caring what you have to say. But that's a trauma response as well. There was a little inner child work to deal with some of the PTSD stuff and trauma responses, but that stuff is so not for me. This therapist gets that I have zero desire to embrace my inner child in my imagination. I'm working on a lot of things to make me a healthier happier person. A lot of it was brought to the surface because of this. And she feels as long as I'm still growing while waiting him out it's a fairly healthy situation. Neither of us are in crisis. Neither of us are spinning wildly. We both have our emotions in check. Sometimes probably a little too much, but so be it, so it's a healthy environment for the kids still. I'm doing my work. And he's clearly doing some of his own. So that's where that is at.

[may22]

Wow, WF. This is a lot. And so brave and honest of you to be facing up to all of this trauma in this moment. This is the exact definition of not wasting a crisis, right??? You're growing and using the time to deal with your own stuff in a healthy way. I feel so happy and proud for you, honestly. I'm sitting here smiling away at my computer. xoxo

[wayfarer]

About to hit 100 here's the link to the new thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2899977&#Post2899977