For those who don't wish to read the ssm thread this has been a long road. I came to this site back in 2001 when I discovered my h's ea went through seperation and h wanting a d. Came to the piecing forum back when there were only 5 regular posters. It's been over 4 years since h's return home, OW apparently no longer part of the equation. Things have never been smooth sailing. Sure there was that blissfully exciting honeymoon period where I thought things were really going to change but as time has gone by it seems things have only gotten worse.
h is now drinking more and doesn't deny it claims it's "not a problem"
h has been purchasing pay per view porn (some costing $10.99) while I'm at PTO meetings or running out to the 24 hour mart store to pick up household items. when I try to talk with h about it again "it's not a problem"
h has always acted un interested in having a physical relationship with me in this year we went over 6 months with no physical contact other than the obligatory peck hello and goodbye. I used to try to address the issue with him but gave up. Now that h is drinking more and watching porn it seems he's suddenly interested but I'm not. It's not that I'm not interested it's that it doesn't feel at all intimate. There just doesn't seem to be any closeness involved...no warming up just a blatant "what are we going to do about this" as he stands in front of me with his member ready. I'm not a prude and not against having some fun with my h but when that's all there is and it wasn't that way before....
I don't know what to think anymore.
when I try to address the drinking with h he claims "it's not a problem" and goes further to justify his drinking by claiming "haven't I been more social lately" as if he needs to have a few beers and a nip (yes he's gotten into the hard stuff) to spend a few minutes talking to me.
when I try to address the porn again I am met with "it isn't a problem" and when I try to explain to him that though he's been more interested in sex lately it feels empty, I'm met with "whatever I do"
I'm really starting to feel like I'm living a lie. I wasn't happy with the r to begin with and now have these extra factors to deal with (yes I know they are his problems but they do change the dynamic of the r). In a sense he is giving me more of what I wanted but not in the manner I want. If you have to drink to spend time with me then you shouldn't spend time with me. If you have to watch porn to be interested in me physically then you shouldn't be physical with me.
I feel like I'm holding on for my children and my home...but am starting to feel like I'm not doing any one any good. Eventually my children will grow and see things for what they are...I'm afraid I will loose the respect of my children when it's apparent I've never had the respect of my h.
I try to post to others as I know that's the best way to get others to post to you but I'll admit I come here and look around and find myself overwealmed. I don't know where to begin and then don't know what to say. I used to be very good at posting to others but then it seemed the more I posted to others the more I thought about what I would say to myself if I were reading me and it frightened me because I would tell myself to prepare to leave.
I did go to a c for a while but realized it was a fruitless endevour to do so.
I've got myself a life...I'm co-chair of the PTO, started a monthly book discussion group, a girls night out club, a small catalog business, a montly dinner club with couples (h attends as well) have a network of friends both local and out of town that I talk to and get together with regularly. There's really not much more I can squeeze into my life.
There was very little I asked h for when he decided he wanted to come home and most if not all of it was denied... 1. counseling (went 3 times together then gave up h didn't want to address anything and got angry when I did) 2. date night, could be going out or a night at home after putting kids to bed to play cards, talk etc. (h claimed he couldn't commit to such a thing) 3. ow no longer a customer (this one eventually happend but of her doing not his. she continued on as a client for almost a year)
there were several other points but they all seem irrelevant now.
I obviously could ramble on forever but I'll let anyone who's chosen to read this far digest for now.
I'm open to any comments you may have even if it's that you don't know what to say.
I was thinking about you and wondering how things were just the other day... didn't know if you were still posting somewhere in the further regions of this board!
Your H's drinking and porn watching may be "not a problem" for him, but they clearly are for you!
I felt for many years that I was married to a stone wall. Sure, we had good times, but in certain areas, there was absolutely NO communication. While I used to believe that it was something to do with not being able to communicate, I now believe that it often suits the "stone wall" to keep stum.
I used to think that abusive men meant those who hit you, and I for one would have been out of a marriage where that started to happen. But after reading Lundy Bancroft's book "Why Does He Do That?" I got a little wiser. Abuse can come in all shapes and forms, including covert and passive agressive. Do read this book if you haven't already.
If this man truly seems content to have a non-relationship with you, I would seriously wonder if he doesn't have another life somewhere else, unbeknownst to you.
Sorry I can't offer much "happy" stuff, it is just what comes to mind from my view here. You may want to seriously decide what YOU can tolerate if H sees no problem.
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
First of all I want to commend you for making a life for yourself outside the selfishness of your H. I think that it should be a joint effort to work on the M,(he should be pulling his own weight) but maybe ask him what he'd like to do, what are his intersts, it seems his idleness is taking him down the road of booze/porn. What does he do for a living, or what was something he always wanted to do? I love the suggestions you had, but maybe he would be more intersted on something else.
Addictions are hard to break if the person doesn't accept he has them, he doens't see a prob thus he doesn't think there is anthing to fix. It might be beating a dead horse, but have u thought about trying for a C that focus on solutions rather than digging in the past? My C is that way, of course we had the obligatory individual session so he could be familiar w/ our background, but afterwards we only talked about solutions and how we could both work together. It took a third time to find this C but he is just excellent, my H who never opened up to the first 2 was able to feel confortable enough to say his peace w/our current C.
I pray your H sees that the additions are tearing your M appart and decides to break them, and for you to remain strong)))))))))))))))
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
Hi LL. Sheesh. All I can do is shake my head. If I was your husband, I would want you to be the star of my movie and I would do it with a clear head (hey...did I just make a funny).
It is just amazing after all this time, things slowly creep farther and farther away. But it is good to hear that you are keeping busy. As for squeezing something in, may I suggest you squeeze your foot up his derriere.
Stay true to yourself. Things will get better one way or another. I can't say I know what will happen there, but if there is anyone I know who can handle whatever is in store, it is you.
I think it is unfortunately pretty easy to see that the M you are in is not good for anyone right now. It isn't good for you, it doesn't seem to be good for H, and as a result it really can't be good for the kids.
It seems you are still operating from fear -- fear that you will leave is making you avoid dealing with the sitch. And, I know you know that operating from fear isn't good for anyone.
I still encourage you to go to a lawyer and figure out your legal position. Knowledge is power. If you know you will be OK if you D, then you might just find the strength and courage to really set down the hard boundaries in your R that need to be set if there is to be any chance of saving the M.
I know you don't want to go to a lawyer because you are afraid you will then immediately leave the M. Again, operating from fear is not healthy.
Learn your options, make informed choices, and get ready to change your life one way or another. To motivate yourself, think about talking to your children 20 years from now about the choices you made in their childhood. Trying to save your M for a long time makes sense. Continuing after a certain point, when you can continue only by avoiding the truth about your sitch, your feelings, your options; when you can continue only in a way that is doing damage to yourself and does not seem good for your H; when you are modelling a sad way of life for your children DOES NOT make sense.
So, quit avoiding, confront the truth. See how it empowers you. See how your knowledge may free you to actually save your M or free you to leave it.
Excellent post though I will stop short of saying that fear is causing inaction on LL's part. I have met LL and my impression of her is that she is a strong, vibrant, intelligent woman. But this situation is causing uncertainty and I could agree perhaps she is overthinking her options. But this is not an easy situation to live with.
Now on to the real reason for my post. When you mentioned that you are modeling a sad way of life for your children, I couldn't agree more. Children do tend towrds the behaviors of their parents. But that isn't really what that sparked. Sometimes, people think they are doing their children a favor by staying together. What I have found though is that younger children handle the change more easily than older children. I have no science to back it up, but that is the impression.
LL, you have been in limbo for a long time and nothing is improving. And from what you say, it is getting worse. At some point, you do have to make some choices. Oldtimer is saying, you really just can't let this continue. You need to make a decision and follow it through. You're a terrific woman and if you are free from this crap, even that will improve.
cat and mouse...cat and mouse...why does it seem like my m is nothing more than a game of cat and mouse.
I give up...become distant bordering on living like he's not here and poof he starts making little attempts at getting my attention.
I never did like to hear people say "too little to late" but I'm really starting to understand the concept from a first hand vantage point.
It's just been so long that I think the cement has hardened too much to start removing bricks.
Am I saying that now because I unintentionally built a wall between us for my own protection am to blame? hells no!
I just feel like I've had enough but am becoming complaicant. Thing is I think h likes it that way. Trouble is he doesn't realize that it's a bad sign.
I know I'm not ready to make any moves so instead I just keep me happy and try not to wonder too much what the future will bring.
I do apprecite everyones replies...lots of things that made me go hmmmm to a point where I'm not exactly sure what to say. I could go point to point on things but that'd just be taking the red pill and though it may seem like I'm avoiding things and being what I don't want to be...hmmmm well I guess the easiest way to explain it is this...last year I started going back to my c. After several visits I decided to stop going...realized it wasn't productive to sit with someone and realize my m wasn't working for me or looking like it was going to improve when I'm just not ready to do anything about it.
People can say that kids are resilliant especially when they are young. My parents didn't divorce until I was in my 20s and though it hurt I'm glad they made it through and I at least have childhood memories of family.
Just a couple of thoughts.... have you ever looked into Alanon? (AA for families of alcoholics). You might get some useful information to help you deal with the alcoholism and your marriage. I would think the alcoholism may be effecting your husband's libido and porn is helping him with this.... any chance of a medical problem? That might be something to discuss with a doctor.
I wish there was some magic for this. I'm glad you're doing things for you and working on your life... and also trying to consider what's best for your children.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.