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A Message from Michele
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Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn] #982523
03/21/07 07:29 AM
03/21/07 07:29 AM
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The GREAT Pacific Northwest
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From sithlord8

***********************************************************

The best thing that you can do to get those things out of your mind is go do something! Mow the grass, run, ride your bicycle, clean the house (potential 180 there??), something to keep you busy. Not sitting around and having a little pity party for yourself is the best thing that you can be doing. Do you have any hobbies? immerse yourself in them. If not, get one. You need to be doing things for you and not worrying about where or what your wife is doing. Sorry to be harsh, but I was there a few weeks ago, and I am 500% better now that I'm doing things for me. Sure, there are the occasional down days, but they are getting fewer and fewer with the passing of time. I guess that I'm finally beginning to detach and take each day one step at a time. Take care of you, because what is worrying about what your wife is doing or where she is at going to do for you besides make you upset and worry about it more?? Work on the PMA and it will WAY help you!! Mike


JJ

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Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn] #987746
03/25/07 09:10 AM
03/25/07 09:10 AM
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The GREAT Pacific Northwest
Jamesjohn Offline OP
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From Mycroft

*******************************************************

I am going to ask you to do something hard here, but just give it a try. Step back from your situation a bit and think about yourself. When you get angry are you always clear headed about what you want, mean, or say? Have you ever said things in anger that were not true?

We have a saying around here, "Believe nothing they say and only half of what you see". It's very true. They will speak in absolute negatives about everything.

Good DBing is sometimes doing NOTHING. You need to back off, give her space, then work on yourself. I know you keep hearing this, but it is what you need to do. While you "back off" from her, take time to clear your own head. Do things you enjoy doing. Find peace with the whole situation. It's very difficult to do this in this kind of horrible situation, but it is what you NEED to do.

WillWin says DBing is about getting yourself back. He is right. Getting yourself back will allow you to deal with this situation at your very best, not your worst. There are no guarantees in what will happen, but since you will always have you, then you may as well start there.

DBing is a process. It requires patience, understanding and discipline (to name a few). If you are a "wreck", you won't have any of those qualities. Please take time to work thing out for yourself. It's the first and most important step in the process.


JJ

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Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn] #987753
03/25/07 09:52 AM
03/25/07 09:52 AM
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The GREAT Pacific Northwest
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From DB Coach Laurie

*************************************************************

“This time I want to detach from his behavior, but I want him to know I am still wanting to work things out and be loving and supportive of him.”

Tama,
You didn’t clarify, but I am assuming that you want to detach from some of your husband’s depressed behavior? If your goal is to detach, the following steps might be helpful to keep in mind:

1. Trying to understand your husband’s behavior as objectively as possible might help you interpret it less personally. That might help you be less reactive, if that is something you are challenged with.

2. Focus on the aspects of your relationship that you really do enjoy. Make an inventory of all of the big and little things that are good and enjoyable. Affirm mentally to yourself and to your husband, when possible, those moments.

3. Keep in mind that your husband’s behavior is his problem – not yours. It is hard, but also very freeing to let go of your husband’s issues.

4. Keep up your PMA, your healthful activity and your supportive friends! These create avenues for you to vent, get support and just enjoy your life!

Michele mentions these aspects of detaching in her DR book in regards to a spouse with addictive behaviors, but I think it can offer help in your situation, too. I support your efforts as you pursue the important changes it sounds like you are making!

Laurie C
Divorce Busting Telephone Consultant


JJ

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Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn] #987761
03/25/07 10:22 AM
03/25/07 10:22 AM
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From johnnyrein

*********************************************

Quote:
If I don't change she'll most certainly leave. If I do change she says it's not going to matter or she'll become angry at the changes saying there for the wrong reasons and not sincere. I know the changes have to be for myself and they truly are


The main principle behind DBing is to work on yourself and cause a different reaction - not the same old. Your W may say these things now and she may believe them but when you change your behavior and outlook then she will be forced to react differently-- thats the key.

I heard the same thing and am starting to see some baby steps--- she was totally emersed in the negative about our R when I started DBing---- Through the techniques I'm changing the way we react. You can change the way she reacts by what you do and say. Remember that she is now only seeing you through tainted glasses - she has a negative spin even on the good stuff right now. You need to be patient and employ the techniques and be vigilant. You can get her to drop the wall around her she has built and see you differently- like the person she married.
It really is tough and patience is not even the right term- thats an understatement. Time and work are what can repair what took time and neglect to destroy. Be strong and keep posting and reading.

Does your C believe in DBing and Michele's work? Could help if the C was on the same page and you both were working together.
You don't and shouldn't be reading her mind- you can't change that--- you should only be working on your mind and you in general- that you control totally.

This stuff really works and i'm thankful i've found it -- at worst you come out a much better person and with work your W back.

Just my opinion here- keep it up and good luck.

johnny


JJ

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Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn] #987764
03/25/07 10:28 AM
03/25/07 10:28 AM
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The GREAT Pacific Northwest
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From DB Coach Dotty

*******************************************************

Dear M,

Going through such a difficult time is very hard for anybody, so your feeling down and moping around the house is very understandable. But, really, how attractive is that? As hard as it may be, you need to start with working on yourself with some self care so you can get a grip and be armed for the tough work of divorce busting. Believe me, I know that isn't easy to do with her right there, acting cold. The good news, however, is that, regardless of what she has been saying, she IS still there. It can feel confusing, but I say focus on the positives. If you haven't already done so, review Michele's books and, on the board, read inspiring stories of success to keep hopeful.

Start with small steps for yourself. Work on having a PMA, even if you don't feel it inside right away. "Act as if..." is a good way to go. Don't initiate R talks with your W. It only allows her to repeat these things that make you feel so helpless. Whatever the reason your W is acting the way she is, it is important for you to give her space but continue to act pleasant and friendly, perhaps doing small nice things for her like bringing her coffee or such. Do more around the house and with the kids. Play with them, go for walks, read to them, etc. Many times I have heard women comment how their attitude about their husband changed when they saw him more involved with the children.

She may expect you to be angry with her and wonder why you are being so nice. Do this to please yourself, to be the kind of person you really want to be and who she will find interest in. Take care of yourself physically. Dress nicely and be well groomed. Do some exercise. You will feel better (those endorphins will help relieve stress and improve your mood) and she may notice as you get in better shape. Your energy level should improve too, which helps offset that common 'down' feeling.

Experiment - try a few things and pay attention to what seems to help. Be a "solution detective" by noticing even the smallest changes that seem positive. For instance, your wife is still making your lunches and cooking. She is still coming to bed, although waiting until late. These may seem very small, but given the situation, they are significant.

Identify your goals so that you can begin to map out a plan toward reaching them. These should be do-able actions, clear and specific, and observable so when you have done them it is obvious. Then notice what helps and what doesn't. Avoid what clearly elicits negative responses from your W, and make sure you stay on track and continue those things that help. She may not comment positively as you change. Don't be disappointed by this as it is a common response. If you get stuck and need more direction, make an appointment for a telephone coaching call, which can be helpful. In the long run, you are in the best position to notice what helps. But you have to get yourself together first.

Keep up your spirits and keep on doing DB work. Find support here on the board and perhaps through prayer, having fun with your kids, believing in the positive possibilities. Good luck. We're rooting for you.
_________________________
Dotty Divorce Busting Coach


JJ

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Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn] #988095
03/25/07 09:13 PM
03/25/07 09:13 PM
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From ChristineE

*********************************************************

Ron,

Patience. Patience, Patience. You're off to a great start...better than many of us at your stage. Here are a few thoughts:

First, you can never know what's inside your W head. You can't know her motivations and her thoughts...so don't even go there...it will drive you nuts. Focus on what YOU can do to make the sitch better and what YOU can do to make yourself better. You said that she sees you as having low self-esteem. What can you do to boost that? Food for thought. Do you have hobbies or something that you do expecially well? Can you do more of that? Can you take a class that you've always wanted to take and learn something new or do a new activity?

Secondly, I have learned from some of the successful DBers in piecing that we are resposible for filling our own tank. The love in our life and our R starts with us. We can't wait for the S to fill up our tank for us (or anything else for that matter). Treat your W and StepD with unconditional love and see how this dynamic can change things.

If you haven't already done so, go over to piecing and read some of the success stories. These folks worked HARD and, yes, this is the hardest thing you will ever do! Heck I played at Carnegie Hall 3 times and that was a piece of cake compared to this! I would suggest BillM, Sage or underdog for starters. I know that there are other good ones that I'm not thinking of at the moment (sorry no offense to other successful DBers). Some of these included OP too.

I have learned from them to ALWAYS keep a positive and self-assured demeanor around S. Focus on the positive things in your R and expand on them. Change yourself for the better. Become the person you've always wanted to be and a person that your W will find very difficult to leave. Confidence, a positive attitude and unconditional love are all MAGNETS. Become a MAGNET. You can't force your W into anything, but you can try to draw her back your way.

Also, detaching and patience. Don't take things personally and don't listen to anything she says. She will blurt out all kinds of things and, if you listen, you will become confused because that's exactly what she is.

Create poistive experiences by being positive yourself. We all know how hard this is, but you can do it. Others have and so can you!

You're off to a great start!

Christine


JJ

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Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn] #988105
03/25/07 09:28 PM
03/25/07 09:28 PM
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The GREAT Pacific Northwest
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From Soup

**********************************************************

Don't send your H Michele's books. Consider them your little secret. You're right, he won't read them anyway.

I guess I would feel better about using the DB techniques if we were closer & he could actually see the changes.

This suggests that your purpose for using DB is so that he can see your changes. Which is indirectly correct. But also wrong. Let me explain.

The premise behind DBing is that we work on ourselves since none of us can control other people. The only person we can control is ourself. So Michele tells us to work on ourselves. She also suggests that 'perhaps' our spouses will see those changes and rethink their decision to leave the R. BUT, she also tells us to make changes (to ourselves) if it makes us comfortable and happier. The emphasis is on making ourselves happy.

So how does your H see those changes you are making for yourself? There is no easy answer to this. But it can happen....

--- he can hear about your changes from mutual friends. "Gee, Anne sure is looking great these days. She sure has become her old self again."
--- he can detect changes in your emails. By your tone. He looks for validation of his feelings in your emails.
--- how you sound on the telephone... especially when he initiates the calls and knows that you haven't anticipated his calls.... he's looking for the everyday Anne. Importantly, he's listening whether or not you are listening to him. He needs to know that he can talk openly and unconditionally. He's looking for you to validate his feelings.

So important to make the most of every little opportunity Anne. ;\)

Soup


JJ

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Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn] #988119
03/25/07 09:40 PM
03/25/07 09:40 PM
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From Meems

*******************************************************

You may already be doing this...I suggest you record your behavior/techniques and how W responded - whether that action pushed her away or brought her closer to you. This was recommended to me by a DB coach during a phone consultation. This will help you keep track of what works and what doesn't (this actually may be in Michele's books too).


JJ

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Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn] #988125
03/25/07 09:45 PM
03/25/07 09:45 PM
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13,
One thing Jerry mentioned that I want to reemphasize is his suggestion of the "Five Love Languages" as a way to direct you towards understanding your wife's needs (love language). To love your wife in her "language" will help her feel loved/cared for by you. This is a smarter way to love than for you to put effort in areas that don't matter as much to her.

Your W has stated she's had some needs unmet by you and it's important for you to discover what really says love to her. Yes, at this moment, you might not have the chance to show her. Or, you might not be able to show this love on a husband level, only on a friend level. But be patient and over time more opportunities will arise.

It's much easier for us to encourage you to be patient, much more difficult to put into place, right? But it is patience and staying steady with your goals that will move you forward. I hope the best for you as you hold tight to your goals and wish for you much wisdom as you adjust your behavior to heal your M!
_________________________
Laurie Divorce Busting Relationship Coach


JJ

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Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn] #988154
03/25/07 10:12 PM
03/25/07 10:12 PM
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From farfromhome

****************************************************

A couple of basic things to remember. Firstly, don't believe anything they say, for example your H saying he is actively looking for someone else - they will say things because of there own confusion and it doesnt mean it is true, believe me with your history you are not easy to replace (LOL).

Secondly be prepared for some hurtful things, your H is confused, angry, upset, etc - H will say things that refelct these stages and I am sorry but all of this will be your fault in his mind and in his words.

Thirdly, for the most part this is not about you anymore, it is all about them. Your H has to work through whatever he has to work through and it will be on his timetable. I am sorry, it hurts, its not fair but that is the timetable you are on. There is very little that you can do for him that will 'change' his mind.

So what do you do. For me it was start working on myself, doing little things that made me happy. Remember there is nothing worong with feeling grief, pain or anger through all of this, it is very normal - but try to do this in private away from your husband.

Things that I found that helped me included:

Having pre-arranged escapes for when arguements were coming up or cheeseless tunnels were approaching (basically I would break away from the conversation). When we were talking my wife would actively try to drag me into arguements to make me seem like the bad guy to her and thus justify her decision in her mind, allaying her guilt. In the end I just refused to go where I knew fights were going to follow.

Do something to make yourself feel good - I went out and bought a whole bunch of new cloths and would also make myself get out of my place to mix with people (often didnt feel like it but I would force myself and found I enjoyed it when I got there).

I got right into going to the gym again. When I felt down I would go to the gym for a good workout and the physical excercise really helped me. The Gym might not be for you but it could be whatever you want it to be.

Do something physically to demeonstrate change (eg hairstyle, cloths, etc) This really does register even though they wont say anything about it.

Get a life and dont be completely accessible. If your H is going out then you make sure you are going out and don't tell him where (even if it is only over to a friends place for a movie or something). Believe me they don't like the thought that you may have a life and are getting ready to move on.

Don't do the pleading, begging, etc part - it just reinforces to them why they left.

Make your changes but don't keep telling him about them. They will see them, they won't acknowledge them, but believe me they see them.

Don't talk to them about the R, it is poisoness groud, even if they bring it up at the beginning it will end in a fight. Also as you have found out dont ask a question that you know your not going to like the answer for. Believe me if you ask the question, at this point you will get a reply you dont want (particularly if part of an unwanted R discussion).

Be as patient as you can. Accept that you will backslide and make mistakes - everyone on this board has. Dont beat yourself up over them just learn from them and try to avoid that situation again in the future.

There are no guarentees in any of this. There were far better dbers on this board then me and they didnt get the outcome they were after. But I have seen a lot of sitchs like mine that were 'impossible' and have come through. In the end I knew I was going to be happy even if my M didnt fix up because I was looking after myself and making myself happy.

You have some good positives and are in a good position to db. Remember:

1. No R talk
2. Get a life
3. Have a bit mystry (doesnt mean dating or anything)
4. Look for some physical activity to help work through the frustrations
5. Dont let them drag you into THEIR drama - have your escape routes ready for when those situations arise
6. Work on your 180s
7. Note what works and what doesnt - keep doing those that work and avoid those that dont
8. Mostly this is about THEM and not about YOU

Remember in the end you have chose to try to save your marriage, this is very noble but has some hard work attached. Keep going, work on you and I wish you the outcome that you desire.

Andrew


JJ

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