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#561954 12/10/05 11:57 PM
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Sorry...I may be out of line here...But could your H be a gay? I mean he could be one subconciously but have been brought up sooo strictly that he SWEEPS that deep into his subconcious mind? Also, with regards to him soiling his underwear, men do have the physiological need to release the build-up of sperm. If he doesn't let it out consciously, it will have to come out some other ways... I've got friends/relatives that are from strict upbringing that they denied to themselves that they were gay. They got married, have children and lead a somewhat "normal" life from the outside. You wouldn't have guessed in a million years that they were gay.... And then something happens and the fact is revealed. Sometimes, the person himself is shocked by the revelation/realisation that he is gay.

I may be waaaaayyyyy off...but just a thought..

One Day at a TIME!!!!

#561955 12/11/05 12:03 AM
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Well, LL, I finally understand what you're getting out of this R with your H - cause it's the same I'm getting with my R that is nonexistent.

You are getting to avoid your own issues. You're getting to avoid your own growth.

It would be extremely uncomfortable to "start over" to learn how to date, to do all the things that you never learned to do cause you established this R so early on.

THere's no use complaining any more about H. You're right, you've tried everything and he's not going to change.

I think you're hanging onto the side of a swimming pool with glass shards. The other side has velvety grass, but it would mean, swimming to the other side and you don't know if you would make it.

Let's face it, LL, things couldn't get worse. Jump off the diving board. You're going to do it eventually anyway, better sooner than later, then you'll have more life to live.

I'm not lying to you. It is uncomfortable, especially when SO seems to be so comfortable and happy. I just have to have Faith that God has a plan for me and if I keep doing the brave thing, I will be rewarded.

Everytime it's time for me to work on my writing or get somethign done I find myself thinking about my SO, then I realize I'm just focusing on his faults so as to hide my own.

#561956 12/11/05 08:25 PM
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Hey LL,

I think we're getting somewhere. Sorry about the 2X4 but you needed it - LOL (y'know I do too - it's funny how we can see it clearly when it's someone else's sitch but not our own)

my childhood like my m was not terrible but it was far from ideal.

I could have written that sentence myself LL, it has taken me a very long time to understand the subtle emotional abuse that took place in my childhood. Like yours it was not terrible but we kids were used as pawns between my parents. My mother tried - God bless her - but she came from a terribly abusive background so I guess she just didn't have the wherewithal to deal right with us. My Dad too had problems as a kid and emotionally was (is) like a stone. It's taken me such a long time to realise the damage they did between them. But I think the biggest damage they did was to hang on in there and cling to each other when their R wasn't right. It set us up to put up with crap from partners. My sister - like you - got together with her ex-h at the age of 16 she clung on in there even though the R was bad for nearly 18 years until his continuing R with OW made it impossible for her to stick it any longer. She still believes it was the bad example set by mum that made her carry on through it.

I too stuck with my first real R for 8 years even though friends and family were all telling me he wasn't the right guy for me.

Whitelight said:
You are getting to avoid your own issues. You're getting to avoid your own growth....
Everytime it's time for me to work on my writing or get somethign done I find myself thinking about my SO, then I realize I'm just focusing on his faults so as to hide my own.


That's right LL, that's what I did in my first R and after it was over I realised it - that he was so bad it was easy to be self-righteous. It was easy to avoid looking at myself. And I'm doing it all over again. This time I KNEW going into it that H was not what I wanted but it was like I was making a bargain with myself - that I didn't deserve more and I think again I was allowing myself to feel superior. He didn't deserve that because he is a nice guy. He didn't deserve to have me look down on him

A few months ago I read a book Narcissism by Alexander Lowen. Of course I read it with the intent of diagnosing others - LOL but there was a hell of a lot in there that really woke me up and realised where I had been coming from all these years.

You need to grow LL and you need to learn about yourself. And IMO you need to get away from being with someone you can blame.
my childhood like my m was not terrible but it was far from ideal.
Keep this in mind when you think about getting your kids involved in a D. Do you want them growing up with a less than ideal R as their only example? With a mum that is miserable with her situation and a Dad that thinks this is the way it's supposed to be?


during the 9 years before m he lived either with his parents or with a friend...I stayed at home....it's more than just transitioning from child to wife but more a problem of while we were dating our time together was limited...he worked a lot and was tired alot (that hasn't changed despite my wishes that it would and his promises that it would)


It seems like H never really engaged in this relationship for whatever reason. You accepted that, you accepted less than you deserve because you didn't believe you deserve more.

If you handle a D right, use all your DB skills, your kids will see two adults working through their difficulties and coming to a sensible compromise. I'm guessing they will probably end up seeing as much of their Dad as they do now, in fact they may see more of him because he will be more engaged than he is now. The most bizarre thing has happened to my Dad since Mum died. He is a totally different person to relate to and it is weird to realise the effect of having mum around had on his personality - it cramped his style (though he will still say he loved her). LL you may well be having the same effect on H and you may be robbing your children of seeing who their real Dad can be. You are probably robbing them of seeing the real you too.

take care


Fran


if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs
Erica Jong
#561957 12/14/05 02:27 PM
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Hello LL,
Just wondering how you're doing this week . . .
-H2H

#561958 12/15/05 04:32 AM
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Hey YoYo,

thanks for stopping by. I don't believe h is gay...I think it's more a case of he grew up in a house where his dad worked and payed the bills, did what he was told and had his own life (took to wine and scratch tickets was and still is kept out of much) also add onto that the fact that he's had me since he was 19 so doesn't understand the value of having a woman to care for him...doesn't realize the need to show appreciation and make her feel special.

Sure he could be gay but it's not the likely answer...I think it's more he's just asexual...sex for him is not something you use to show love sex for him is dirty...I recall mil commenting about son when he was a little baby touching himself...telling him not to...I never told son not too only told him (when he was old enough to understand) to not do it in front of people. h's mom is very prudish...expects people to go to the bathroom if they need to pass gas and heaven forbid you burp in your own home.

LL

#561959 12/15/05 04:35 AM
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hey whitelight,

thanks for your thoughts...trouble is I'm trying to determine whether or not I'm actually holding onto shards of glass or velvety grass and just don't know it. perhaps it's something in between.

I feel like eventually h and I wont be together (I honestly don't see myself growing old with him though I know he'll always be a part of my life as a result of the children) BUT until I'm certain that's not just pain and resentment talking I can't swim anywhere.

LL

#561960 12/15/05 04:44 AM
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hey fran thanks for checkin' in on me,

Quote:

It seems like H never really engaged in this relationship for whatever reason. You accepted that, you accepted less than you deserve because you didn't believe you deserve more.





true but not completely. I accepted less at first because I was always promised the future would be different. Also because it seemed easier to be with h than to risk it all. Anyone who's been in love really in love with their partner understands what I mean by that....the risk you take in not having enough of this or that...of loosing friends or monotary things because your content when you are with that person. I knew that with h I wouldn't be giving up those things...the risk wasn't there...but without the risk there is still a loss...the loss of a true connection. does that make sense?

Quote:

'm guessing they will probably end up seeing as much of their Dad as they do now, in fact they may see more of him because he will be more engaged than he is now.




H was a better dad when he wasn't living here...h was actually better to me when he wasn't here. I think h may have even been better to himself when he wasn't here.

LL

#561961 12/15/05 04:50 AM
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Quote:

Hello LL,
Just wondering how you're doing this week . . .
-H2H




hanging in there H2H, I'm not certain how I feel other than realizing I'm very angry at h and very angry with myself. I feel like I should not have let him come home even though it's what I thought I wanted. Did I only want it because of fear? because I was 29 with two kids under 3 suddenly forced to face divorce? I said when h left that he really wasn't taking anything away from me as he wasn't here to begin with (a lot of people dealing with WAS are missing time spent with their spouse or tradition something...with me and h there was nothing to miss other than another person in the house)

I'm just tired of it...very very tired of it.

LL

#561962 12/15/05 06:59 AM
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Gawd - I would hate to imagine how your MIL looks like....As for your sitch, sorry can't offer you much. But unless something significant happens, don't think your dynamics would change. You could do something major to change the dynamics or you could pray that something would happen. But I suppose the latter is very far-fetched. You really need to seize the bulls by it's horns? I supposed the s@x bit is kinda hard since your H views it as something dirty rather than intimacy between H&W. I'm sorry..really can't offer much, except...Hang in There, Try Try again until you see some positives!!!

One Day at a TIME!!!!

#561963 12/15/05 12:58 PM
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LL,
I think you may start to feel the resentment die down a little when you realize and SAY to yourself that you are staying because you have no desire to be a single mom with little kids and that you are afraid to strike out. Right now, it is just too easy to lay all that at H's feet and continue hating him for the choices you are making. You've accepted (and told all of us) that your M is dead but also said that you can't bear to move on, until you know that there's no chance that connection will resurface. But in the meantime you will not do anything to make that connection resurface because you believe the M to be dead. It is a catch 22 that you are putting yourself into, kwim?

I guess what I'm saying is that owning your own feelings regarding your M may give you some peace of mind. Saying out loud, "I am staying because I do not like the alternatives (single motherhood, etc)" is a whole lot better, mentally, than saying "This M is dead and it's all H's fault". THAT sentiment keeps you stuck in Resentmentville; I think it's time that you headed on outta that town, don't you?

Fwiw, if I were you, I'd be scared poopless. Being with the same man all my life, going from parents' home to his, having little kids...shudder!! I know you are a strong person and I am not suggesting that you aren't, but un-doing your whole life as you've constructed it so far would make ANYbody quake.

Take care,
HP

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