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#561904 11/13/05 04:55 PM
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Quote:

You don't spend much time posting about the every day details. It would really help me see where there's some room for "something different" if you posted about any interactions you do have, okay? Can we make a deal? For one week, just keep posting the day-to-day stuff, keeping the complaints & 'done that' comments to a minimum. Game?




Game...

I'll start with today Sunday

I don't recall if h came to bed last night or not...
he was on the couch asleep when I went up...
dd woke me this morning but I didn't get up knew h was around. dd eventually woke son while h was taking a shower..h was going to dunkins for muffins and his coffee so I got up to keep the kids under control..
h took son to drop off scouting for food bags at assigned houses then took son to lake to fish for about an hour..I hung out with dd had a tea party and vaccuumed the basement/playroom/bar area etc. put away some laundry cleaned up a bit.
h brought son home so he could venture off to friends house to watch football.
so the kids and I are going to have lunch, go food shopping and who knows what else for the rest of the day/night.

LL

#561905 11/14/05 01:24 AM
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thanks for the kind words spitfire...I'm trying to focus on me.

so H2H I'm just jotting down more of the day to day

well as I said h left around noon to go watch the 1 oclock football game...told son he'd call to let us know what channel the race was on (is trying to get son into nascar) the kids and I went off and did foodshopping..made up some index cards with sons reading words on them for practice (he's in first grade) and went over them with him, had another tea party with dd and card game with son (yu gi oh makes no sense to me but I just play along) made us some dinner had a few laughs..gave dd her bath (bought some bathtub crayons so she can practice writing her name, letters and shapes, had son take a shower read them a few books kissed them goodnight and sat down to watch some tv myself. It's now 9:30 pm and h never did call...

I'll include in tommorows post wether or not he made it home.

LL

#561906 11/14/05 04:41 PM
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Just to let you know I am reading along. I think it will take a few days of details to figure out something different.

One thing I note is that you tell what happened in broad strokes, but capture none of the conversation/interaction you have with H. I'd like to hear a bit more how these conversations go.

What does H. say when he's popping over to friend's house? How do you respond? etc. I'm guessing that there is something in the way the communication happens that there may be room for something different.

For example, you say " h brought son home so he could venture off to friends house to watch football. " What if you had plans to meet a friend? Does H. ask you about your schedule? Do you ask him to watch the kids on Sat. or Sun. afternoon because you've got plans?

It's all the same question really - I think we need to hear the conversation between you two.

Anyways, I'm glad you're game and I am hoping we can find something to try!

Hugs,
-H2H

#561907 11/14/05 11:07 PM
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hey H2H,

I know it's going to take a while to get the jist of what's going on here...I use broad strokes to detail things because when it comes to h that's all there is. I knew h was going to friends to watch football because that's what he does...they used to go to the home games but have sold their tx so now they swap weeks...one week they come here the next he goes down there...

he didn't say much of anything...just dropped son in the house said "I'll call later to tell s what channel the race is on" "Ok, I'm going to take them foodshopping and then we'll be here" pretty much it.

If I have plans on a Sat or Sun I'd have to let him know in advance and may (usually) have to get a sitter or plan on bringing the kids with me. I keep my plans to after the kids are in bed for the most part to avoid that frustration.

So to continue

Sunday night I got tired of watching tv..h never did call..@ 10pm I went up to the bedroom to read for a while..@11pm h came home...did not come upstairs..went directly to basement...I read for a bit more and then went to sleep...son came into my room sometime in the middle of the night...h still hadn't made it up..I don't think he made it up all night. H left for work just before we all got up.

Monday

I made breakfast for the kids and dropped them both at school, came home and cleaned up breakfast and sat down for a bit...decided to get off my butt and start doing my pilates workout again...started the tape and the phone rang (10am ish)..I figured I'm starting this and not letting a phone call keep me from it so didn't answer...it was h. I finished the tape and called h back...he just wanted to say hello and complained of a kink in his shoulder ( I avoided commenting that sleeping on the couch'll do that) that he was on his way to another job. Let him know I was doing my tape so didn't answer..that I planned on using the eliptical glider but would prefer a treadmill...had talked about getting a treadmil in the past but was told no...this time he said well maybe we'll look into getting one for you if you'll use it. That would be great I said..know they can be expensive...but I've seen some that do what I want/need for not too much. We'll see he says. call lasted all of 2 mins.

I then got on the eliptical glider for about 10 min (hey it's a start) went to pick dd up from school (11:30) brought her home made lunch, took a shower, got her dressed for dancing school, sat in during her dance class (so cute) went to visit an old play mate for a bit...left dd there to pick son up from school and returned to meet other child of playdate at school bus...hung out there til @ 5 on the way home h called cell phone...my cell says "home" I anser "hello home" h says "hi home" I say "no I'm not home I'm me, You're home" h says "I know I'm home your not home...well I've been home for a bit (not normal time for h to be home...new time of year hitting in weeks past it was 7 or later for him to get home.)...took a shower and was getting hungry so called to see where you were" I say "well we're on our way home from friends house"

the kids and I get home to find h in the family room...a peck on the cheek for me from h then he retreats to the basement while I cook dinner, son colors at the kitchen table dd watches tv in the playroom. Dinners ready dd calls h up. while eating the kids and I play rock paper scissors..eventually h tells us to stop..we do. I have son read some of his reading word cards for daddy...daddy takes over.
H retreats to basement while I clean up dinner and make the kids some icecream w banana's and strawberries.
son tries to get h to play card game with him but h says in a min...he's watching tv and on the phone with buddie. the kids come back up stairs I'm still cleaning up.
Son has managed to get h to play go fish with him but has to play in the basment, son asks why "cause I'm sitting on the couch" replies h.

so now they're (dd begged to play too) playing go fish on the other side of the stairs (puter is in basement stairs in middle...h's room on one side of stairs puter and playroom on other.

time for me to put dd to bed...we'll see how the rest of the night goes.

LL

#561908 11/15/05 12:55 PM
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rest of Monday night

put dd to bed
put s to bed
let h know they both wanted him to go up and give them kisses, he did.
I sat at puter researching Christmas presents for the kids h returned to his couch in basement...
I heard the tivo beep letting him know it wanted to change the channel to record my show...he grunted I said "are you stopping it from recording my show" he said "No" fiddled with it to get it to record on the other tuner while he watched his stuff...a few min later I heard my show on but said nothing...looked over and he was asleep...I put some stuff away and then looked for the remote to start my show from the begining...he woke long enough to hand it to me...I sat on the floor and watched my show then changed it back to live tv (his sports news stuff)...went up to read and go to bed...h showed up eventually sometime in the middle of the night without a word.
h woke and left this am before I got up gave me a peck on the forehead...and there you have it a typical 24 hr period in LL land. Tue-Sat will be basically the same...not much communication to look at because there really isn't much communication...h works, h may or may not call during the day for a min to say hello very briefly, h returns home, h retreats to basement, h either falls asleep in basement or when saying goodnight to kiddos goes to bed himself.

That's the problem.

LL

#561909 11/16/05 02:02 AM
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Tuesday

h woke and left while we were just starting to stir (well dd was already awake as usual)
breakfast, get kids dressed and drop son at school (no school for dd today)
dd wanted to go visit her baby cousin so we called they had plans but said we could stop by for a bit so we did.
errands/lunch out with dd
h called cell phone at 2pm ish left a message (we were in the store) saying hello heading back to the office has gotten wet enough in the rain should be heading home around 4.
pick son up from school arive home to find new bedding for sons room being delivered (recently painted sons room and ordered him new bedding)
the kids play with the delivery boxes (after emptying them and putting the new sheets in the wash) on the kitchen floor while I start making sauce and think about what's for dinner (the sauce wont be done and is to make eggplant parm for thanksgiving with)
send an email to bils wife to rsvp an invite incase h didn't mention to her. (she replied he didn't)
son decides it's opposite day so we have pancakes and bacon for dinner.
h calls while I'm cooking at 4:30 letting us know he's on his way home with the dump truck so tell son (son likes to push the button to dump whatever daddy has brought home to extend the driveway)
the kids and I eat shortly after 5
I leave h's out for him
h arives while the kids are playing and I'm doing dishes I get my peck hello
son asks daddy to read his book is told to wait
I start attempting to tear apart the bedskirts that came with the bedding sets to make valances for the windows.
H takes a shower and calls son up to read him the book reluctantly son goes up (he wanted to read it on the main floor)
I bring dd up for her bath and suggest son take his shower.
h retreats to the basement once son is in the shower but not before son and I torture him with the nose hair trimers...son is curious why it makes daddy cry but h assures him it's just that it tickles so much (I don't primp h often but every once in a while the nose must be cared for he's too ticklish to do it himself...squirms and kicks his feet...)
I put dd to bed, return to the bedskirt valance madness in the kitchen while son is in the fam room..I'm talking to him about the show he's watching...let him know when it's over it's time to go up
the phone rings a friend needing a favor from me that I can't help with this time...she starts chatting and time runs over on son he doesn't seem to mind but is no longer watching show (he knows it's bedtime)is now waiting with me amongst the bedskirt valance madness, I'm about to get off the phone and put son up but h comes up from the basement and questions why he's still up...I let him know I'm on my way and he says "it's ok I'll take him up". so a few min later I go up to give son kisses and h has gone to bed (it's only just after 8pm) I ask "are you kidding" h replies "no, I don't feel good and I don't want to sleep on the goddam couch" I go kiss son and return to ask h what he means by "don't feel good" h let's me know he's had chest pains doesn't know what...could be a muscle he's just going to rest and see...I say Ok I'll try to be quiet then.

so I return to the kitchen to attempt to make valances out of bedskirts and figure I'll take a break and fill you in on another day in the life of LL and co.

I have my appointment with c tommorow...not really sure what I'm suppose to gain from it this go around but I'll give it a shot...

LL

#561910 11/17/05 12:37 AM
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Wednesday

h leaves before we're up as usual
I get kids breakfast snacks/lunches for school and drop them off...return to clean up breakfast make a call to my mom and take a shower before going to councelor apt.
apt went OK..don't know what I was really hoping to gain by going...
had some errands to run..on the way to first errand h called cell phone to say hello..let me know he ran out of one of his meds (is on paxil and clorazapam? ran out of clorazapam so took some lorazapam this week left him AFU in his words) and is having his doc order more asked me what I was up to...I let him know I just got out of C apointment and had some other errands to run (listed them for him) he ignored the c and other stuff and went back into talking about his meds etc...then said ok well I'm hoping to get out of town at such and such a time..I like this getting home early (up until this week h wasn't getting home until 7pm or later some nights) we can talk about how your c appointment went tonight. Ok says me.

so I continue my day of errands etc...pick kids up from school get home and start making chicken soup (it's foggy and rainy and homeade chicken soup gets rid of that yuck)

h arives as we're finishing eating (@5:30) H says his hellos and give us our pecks...takes a shower and has his soup in the basement...dd begs me to do excersize video with her so I do ( I started it monday and was suposed to do it today anyway so thank you dd) but of course the kids aren't cooperating so I ask them to go down to their playroom (they were fighting over the extra mat) h hears me so calls them downstairs.
I finish and take dd up to bed...but the rain is making lots of noise outside her room (there's another lower roof outside her windows) I suggest playing some music to drown it out but her cd player isn't working...I come down to find h at the puter...ask him to please go up to her room the radio he's been taking out on the canoe is not working and the rain is scaring her...he of course gets huffy and goes into a tirade about how it was working fine after he took it out on the canoe...(how would he know, he never put it back in her room just left it in the garage and I did ask him each time not to take it...it's hers) I just say well it's not working now and she's scared and wants you to come up. (mind you every night I put her to bed she tells me to send daddy up to give her kisses, I tell him and he ignores it) H reluctantly with caveman arms goes up stairs. I foolishly say "well if you didn't take it out on the canoe you there'd be no suggesting that's what broke it"

Yes, I know I could have simply said "the radio's not working" and not mention his having taken it out on the canoe but I asked him repeatedly not to take her radio..it's not waterproof but he did what he wanted and now it doesn't work. And if it matters at all I said it matter of factly ...the one you took out on the canoe...is not working.

after doing the dinner dishes and cleaning up...I sit at puter reading some stuff (emails, threads, etc) son comes down because the satelite is messing up his channel so he wants to watch daddys tv...daddy says ok, son says "I like coming down here with you" daddy says "you can come down anytime you want" (huh? isn't this the same guy who tells them to stay on their side when he's watching football or the race or the news? tells them they're not allowed on his side WTF?)

I let son know when shows over it's time to go to bed...I figure I'll let daddy and son have their couch time so I go up to the family room for 5 min..then call son up...son asks daddy to take him up...so up they go...I follow to bring some stuff up to dd's room. H had put dd to bed in our room so had to carry her back to her bed...I gave her another kiss..daddy brought her some of her dolls she left in our bed...I brought h to sons room to show him the curtains etc...he says "I know I saw it, looks good"
son is in bathroom h is already in bed...I retreat to the basement (I prefer the tivo tv...don't have to watch commercials can watch two episodes of CSI in the time it takes to watch one with commercials) son comes down...needs kisses so I bring him back up...h says to son "what are you doing" I let him know...put son in bed with kisses on the way by my bedroom say good night to h..h says nothing i peek in and say good night h says "Oh, I thought you were talking to him.

and that's it.

another run of the mill..leave it to beaver day at LL's house.

LL

#561911 11/17/05 01:53 AM
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I was just wondering what your husband's journal would say if he was writing about the same day. I wonder if it would be something like this ...

I left for work early today. I’ve changed my meds this week and it’s left me feeling weird. I woke up and rather than take out my downer behaviour on the whole family ducked out and went to work.

I called Lost Love this morning to say hi and let her know I was thinking of her. She said she’d been to counselling and had been running a whole heap of other errands. She’s been going to that same counsellor for such a long time and yet she still seems dissatisfied. She’s really unhappy and I don’t know what to do about it. I told her I’d be home early so we could catch up and she can tell me how she went at the counsellor, maybe I’ll finally get some hints from her about what I can do to help her be happier.

I got home as early as I could allowing for traffic – at 5.30pm and they had already finished dinner. I wish Lost Love would just agree to put dinner back to 6.00pm or 6.30pm. I love eating with the family, but LL has it all served up and put away by 5.30pm every day. I don’t think she wants to eat with me. She’d made a delicious soup – she’s the best cook I know - but eat together, no way. She and the kids had theirs finished as always so I took mine down to the basement and ate it in front of the TV – alone again.

I wanted to talk to her about counselling, but she did some exercise tape thing with our little girl and then went straight to the golly computer, like she does every night. I don’t think she wants to be near me. Then she started on me about kissing the kids good night, fixing the radio I apparently broke - Last time I used it it was fine - but anyway – continued hassling me about saying good night to the kids. Of course I’m going to say good night to them – I love them. I love tucking them in.

So I did my evening stuff and went to bed, thinking maybe she’ll come in and we can talk and have a cuddle – but no – she’s in the basement for the rest of the night watching CSI or some other thing.

I love her and I miss her, but I don’t know how to get close to her and spend time with her. I wish she’d meet me half way.


You know he's going through this as well ...


V

Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
#561912 11/17/05 02:38 AM
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I do appreciate the attempt at looking through h's eyes at the sit but it's far from reality...

Quote:

I was just wondering what your husband's journal would say if he was writing about the same day. I wonder if it would be something like this ...

I left for work early today. I’ve changed my meds this week and it’s left me feeling weird. I woke up and rather than take out my downer behaviour on the whole family ducked out and went to work.

H always leaves for work early...meds or no meds he hardly saw son awake at all during his first two years of life because he left for work before he woke and didn't get home til after he was in bed.

I called Lost Love this morning to say hi and let her know I was thinking of her. She said she’d been to counselling and had been running a whole heap of other errands. She’s been going to that same counsellor for such a long time and yet she still seems dissatisfied.

haven't been to the c in almost 3 years today was first visit back

She’s really unhappy and I don’t know what to do about it. I told her I’d be home early so we could catch up and she can tell me how she went at the counsellor, maybe I’ll finally get some hints from her about what I can do to help her be happier.

I got over giving hints a long time ago..I've told h directly I'd like him to set some time asside for us to connect (even suggested one night a week for a date night..don't even have to leave the house...) that I'd like for him to actually kiss me during our infrequent sexual encounters (even placed some listerine strips in his nightstand) oh and to have them be less infrequent.

I got home as early as I could allowing for traffic – at 5.30pm and they had already finished dinner. I wish Lost Love would just agree to put dinner back to 6.00pm or 6.30pm. I love eating with the family, but LL has it all served up and put away by 5.30pm every day. I don’t think she wants to eat with me. She’d made a delicious soup – she’s the best cook I know - but eat together, no way.

it is only this week that h has started ariving home @5:30 the majority of the year h doesn't get home until 7 or later should I just let my kids starve and eat in their pajamas while waiting for dad to get home? If h were home at 5:30 every night I'd be more than happy to wait on dinner for him.

She and the kids had theirs finished as always so I took mine down to the basement and ate it in front of the TV – alone again.

His choice the kids and I were all up in the kitchen at that time..hadn't even gotten up from the table yet he could have sat with us but chose not to.

I wanted to talk to her about counselling, but she did some exercise tape thing with our little girl and then went straight to the golly computer, like she does every night.

I was in the kitchen with the kids he had already retreated to the basement.

I don’t think she wants to be near me.

how could he get that message from me when I've asked him to make time for us?

Then she started on me about kissing the kids good night,

I didn't start in on him..I simply let him know that his dd wanted him.

fixing the radio I apparently broke - Last time I used it it was fine - but anyway – continued hassling me about saying good night to the kids.

I didn't continue hassleing him..I simply let him know she wanted him

Of course I’m going to say good night to them – I love them. I love tucking them in.

No, it's not "of course" 95% of the time he doesn't kiss them goodnight, he's already asleep on the couch when I put them up to bed...I quietly let him know they want him...he stirs and says "OK" but doesn't get up...it's gotten to the point where dd says to me after I read her her story and kiss her good night "this time really tell daddy I want him to give me a kiss"

So I did my evening stuff and went to bed,

evening stuff? his evening stuff usually involves little more than eating, showering and falling asleep

thinking maybe she’ll come in and we can talk and have a cuddle – but no – she’s in the basement for the rest of the night watching CSI or some other thing.

I said good night didn't I? he could have asked me to come in and I would have...if he's in bed he's going to sleep..I've fallen for the "well maybe he'll want to talk or cuddle" trap before it doesn't get me anywhere so I occupy myself until I'm tired enough to fall asleep without feeling rejected by him next to me.

I love her and I miss her, but I don’t know how to get close to her and spend time with her. I wish she’d meet me half way.


half way?

You know he's going through this as well ...




he's going through it by choice.

LL

#561913 11/17/05 11:31 AM
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Hi LL,
I have been following along and will have some questions about what I see as certain opportunities to do something different. But I wanted to comment on Walkingback's post and your reply.
Quote:

I do appreciate the attempt at looking through h's eyes at the sit but it's far from reality...



Hmmm, I see you've got the market covered on what H. is thinking and doing? ? ? ?

Walkingback's version, is of course fiction, it's just another possible viewpoint, as she doesn't really know H. nor has talked to him. However, even though you DO know your H., I'll remind you that NO ONE can read anyone else's mind. And though you probably have a good handle on what H. could be thinking, I am somewhat shocked at how quickly the Frustration/Defensive reaction comes out in your response. Can you entertain any other interpretation to H.'s thoughts & behaviors than disinterest, lazy or self-absorbed? Do you hold any good thoughts about H.?

LL, if you have already decided what H. thinks and what his intentions are and what his choices are, then I'm sure you'll find what you are looking for. What room is there in your mind to search for something to help turnaround this situation?

Throughout your last post you confidently determine H's thoughts, motives and 'wrong' choices or behaviors. It seems as if you have a prescribed set of things that should happen when H. comes home - and when he doesn't do these things, you give up. Giving up quickly helps you avoid your fear of rejection. I'm curious - did you ask H. to sit down and join the family at the table? Or did you just assume he didn't want to because he hadn't?

Didn't he tell you that he would be home earlier that day - couldn't you have held dinner for a 1/2 hour? I know you said this is a NEW phenomenon, but aren't you virtually ignoring the NEW arrival time by respsonding in exactly the same old way? What incentive is there for H. to come home earlier when he gets no appreciation for coming home earlier, or feeling welcomed when he does get home?
Quote:

I got over giving hints a long time ago..I've told h directly I'd like him to set some time asside for us to connect (even suggested one night a week for a date night..don't even have to leave the house...) that I'd like for him to actually kiss me during our infrequent sexual encounters (even placed some listerine strips in his nightstand) oh and to have them be less infrequent.



At first I thought that maybe we should put "asking directly for what I want" in the "NOT working category". But there is still some doubt in my mind as to HOW you communicate directly what it is you want . . . Perhaps your straight shootin' requests come out as complaints, or criticisms? I really don't know, which is why I ask you to post the actual conversations you have - what you said, what he said, etc. It's the only way to attempt breaking down where things might be going awry.
Quote:

WB: I don’t think she wants to be near me.

LL: how could he get that message from me when I've asked him to make time for us?



There are MANY ways he could get that message from you, LL. What do you do or say when he gets home? Do you welcome him home, give him a kiss, tell him you're glad he's home in time for dinner? Do you keep to your attention on what you & the kids were doing? Do you ask him about his day? Does your body language & facial expressions reflect your firm belief that you already know everything he's thinking and what he's going to do?

LL, I'm not there - I can't see what's going on, but I do sense from your posts that you are so convinced that what you think about H. is true - that he chooses this rather mundane and affection-starved existence. If this belief is so deeply held, then there is no room for change - your mind is set on proving what you believe. Walkingback's post is just a way of allowing your mind to consider a different POV. It's accuracy isn't so important, as it's ability to remind you that you CANNOT read someone's mind.
Quote:

WB: thinking maybe she’ll come in and we can talk and have a cuddle – but no – she’s in the basement for the rest of the night watching CSI or some other thing.

I said good night didn't I? he could have asked me to come in and I would have...if he's in bed he's going to sleep..I've fallen for the "well maybe he'll want to talk or cuddle" trap before it doesn't get me anywhere so I occupy myself until I'm tired enough to fall asleep without feeling rejected by him next to me.



C'mon LL - "I said good night, didn't I?" You're here because you said you'd like to turn things around - is this all the effort you're willing to put into this? You seem so angry at H. - seemingly so unwilling to really try something different. Oh, I know you're going to tell me that you HAVE tried - and I know you've done plenty. But to say that you said good night and that's supposed to magically give him an opening to say "aw, come here LL, let's cuddle" is just crock! IMHO, you're going to have lay down your anger & resentment for a little while in search of ways to put in a decent effort here....

I've got get ready for work, so I'll have to come around later. But I want to say that I was surprised to hear that he calls during the day to say hi and check in with you. I didn't get that from your earlier, less descriptive posts. In my mind, there ARE opportunities to respond differently during those calls, and when he gets home. That is, IF you are willing to let go of your deeply held beliefs of what H. is thinking & his intentions.

I'll be back,
-H2H

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