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#561884 10/21/05 05:08 PM
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We're supposed to be divorce busters here, not trying to talk people out of their marriages.

True, if the relationships are good ones gone astray and are worthwhile to attempt to salvage. It doesn't seem to me to be the case here.

Things went bad once the relationship had settled; H creates distance by not being involved; taking sex away; the more he's spoken to about it by his partner, the more he distances, such as he avoids going to sleep with her; he doesn't openly discuss his activities (more distance); now there's evidence of his being with others (more distance).

Do you see where this is headed? There will be a confrontation sooner or later, and that's going to make things uglier.

#561885 10/21/05 09:26 PM
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Tony,

I don't think I implied for LL to go for a D or even consider being a walkaway.

But if we go into repeat and we feeling that same sense of "deja vu" all over again, time to do something different. Usually, intuition is on target--> something's wrong or not right. That's what I meant. This guy needs to wake up. LL is a cool gal! Maybe copping a new attitude or an indifference might be the trick? Don't know. I remember her from way back when myself...

Later, off to have a weekend guys....

#561886 10/21/05 11:40 PM
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I was married for 15yrs to my now exH (not the R that I am on here for)...as my attorney once said if he only could keep his !@#$ in his pants, you two would still be married as we are to this day good friends...but after awhile of living like I did with him, him working 24/7, not being around, having A's...he did everything he could to distance himself from the M and from us (D and I). One day we were on a family vacation down in the keys...a song by Sheryl Crow came on (My Favorite Mistake)...I listened and swear it was like she was singing my life away...LOL...got on the phone made arrangement to be picked up at the airport and left him there in the Keys...and left our marriage. I never looked back on it. I had died inside being the only one fighting for our M...and then the minute I stopped trying it was over. I did try during the separation but just didn't have it in me anymore.

I am sorry that you are going through this, but I can understand your pain. Have I had regrets over the past 6 yrs...actually, no. I haven't. It was for the best. I waited 8 mos to file just in case I changed my mind...but I saw no signs coming from him of attempts to work on it and so I let it die. D didn't care because he was never there for her then and he isn't there for her now...sad but very true, nor was he ever a husband. Friends had told me for years, leave him, you are better off without him and I tried to hang on for D sake...and a good friend told me...Only you will know when YOU have had enough...and one day I did...

I wish you the best in whatever your decision may be and having walked in your shoes my friend, I know it will be painful and I wish you all the love and strength in the world to decide what is best for YOU.


love, laughter and friendship, Lisa
#561887 10/24/05 12:22 PM
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Hi All,

Thanks for all the replies.
I can't go with just my intuition...if I do and confront h I wont have a leg to stand on when he makes his excuses for the things I've seen that lead me to believe he's up to no good. Then where will I be? even more confused.

Tony,
You are right, this is a site for those trying to save marriages BUT NYsurvivor said it best...if it isn't there to be saved..it isn't there.
You have the past confused...yes h wanted a D during his A the last time..but not until having the A undetected for over a year and then pretending to not have the A and work on the m for a few months then still didn't want a D when he moved out...he had been out of the house for almost 3 months when he wanted a D. Back then when I expressed my feelings that things weren't right..all I got from him was "I'm doing the best I can" "No, I'm not having an A" "bla bla bla". If I listen to you and try to just be happy and accept that he's a provider who's here everynight (mind you he came home everynight during his a until the seperation) I'll be being a doormat and that's just not good enough for me.

I'm keeping my eyes open and have started to keep a journal...see if I can find any trends that may lead me to more clues. Either way somethings gotta change around here or I will be a waw but the trouble is I don't think I'll really be the waw I think it's h who's a wah who just hasn't walked.

LL

#561888 10/25/05 07:33 PM
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how to catch a cheating spouse?

#561889 10/25/05 10:50 PM
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Okay - people say not to snoop for a very valid reason - it's too difficult to act as if and turn the R around if you are steamed up about the fantasy email they sent to oW yesterday. So a lot of people would say, put your energies into making your R with h exciting and new and fun, and even if he iS having an A now, it will fade away as your marriage becomes a more interesting place to be.

That being said - if your position is truly that you no longer want him if he is currently having an affair - and you are CLEAR on that in your own mind - then I think it's reasonable to try to find out the truth.

Ways to go about this?
some people have downloaded keystroke logger programs onto their computer so they can see what H has typed.

You might enlist a friend to spy on H when you think he might be having an opportunity to stray. (or a local fellow DBer?)

Check cell phone records. (I know some people on the board have managed to do this even when their spouse hid the bills, most companies have a feature where you can check it online, not sure how to go about doing this, but someone here probably knows.)

What time does your H have available? I would have thought my H didn't have any opportunity - I found out about his affair by accident from the computer. If I HAD had suspicions, I would only have been able to catch him at lunchtime from his work.

Ellie

#561890 10/26/05 05:20 PM
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Hi Ellie,

Quote:

if your position is truly that you no longer want him if he is currently having an affair - and you are CLEAR on that in your own mind - then I think it's reasonable to try to find out the truth.





Been there, Done that, not going through it again.

Quote:

some people have downloaded keystroke logger programs onto their computer so they can see what H has typed.





I don't believe it would be a computer thing...h only uses the computer for weather and sports news...I'm the one that checks the emails.


Quote:

You might enlist a friend to spy on H when you think he might be having an opportunity to stray. (or a local fellow DBer?)




because h is self employed he has the opporuntity all day every day...he leaves the house at 6am and doesn't return until 6:30pm his last A took place all during the day.

Quote:

Check cell phone records. (I know some people on the board have managed to do this even when their spouse hid the bills, most companies have a feature where you can check it online, not sure how to go about doing this, but someone here probably knows.)




The bills all go to his office and last check there the cell bills do not have a call log. I could go on line and look but don't want to mess up the way he currently does things...to the best of my knowledge he handles the bills the old fashion way and my creating an account on line with the #'s may effect that.

Quote:

What time does your H have available? I would have thought my H didn't have any opportunity - I found out about his affair by accident from the computer. If I HAD had suspicions, I would only have been able to catch him at lunchtime from his work.




As I said...ALL DAY LONG!! he's the boss, often works alone going from apointment to apointment, stops at the bank and post office etc. No accountability involved in his job...he could be anywhere at anytime during the day.

LL

#561891 10/27/05 02:04 PM
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Hi LL,
I've been lurking a bit over here - mainly because I remember the great exchanges with you, Sage and others back then. I learned a lot reading through those old threads.

I must say that I am a bit confused as to what your goals are - I see your posts here & in piecing, and I get the sense that venting is part of your reason here - which is completely understandable.

Quote:

Either way somethings gotta change around here or I will be a waw but the trouble is I don't think I'll really be the waw I think it's h who's a wah who just hasn't walked.



What IS clear to me is that YOU are not happy with your current situation - your marriage. From what I gather right now, you suspect another A. and if that's the case then you're prepared to walk - is that correct?

You say "either way something's gotta change" - but why does that change hinge on whether or not you find out he's having an A.? So tell me what you would do if you find out he's NOT having an A.? Why not start implementing those changes right now? What do those changes look like? What is your part/responsibility in bringing about those changes you envision for yourself and the kids?

I really do hear your frustration, LL - and I can completely empathize with the situation. I see it every time someone tries to make a suggestion to you and you often respond "been there, done that". But I gotta ask you that "IF something's gotta change," then who do you think is responsible for making that change, for deciding what that change will look like? (hint: YOU)

My suggestion would be not to focus on snooping around or collecting clues - to me that would be to stay mired in the ugly past and equally unpleasant present which you say you cannot stand. I'd say why not decide what those changes you talk about will look like, and how they can be achieved. It does seem from this side of the screen that you have completely given up your DB'ing efforts - or talking to H. about the situation. If that's the case, then focus on YOU - only YOU can make it happen; make the life you want to live, regardless of whether or not there's an A. going on.

Hugs,
-H2H


#561892 10/27/05 03:01 PM
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thanks for stoping by H2H,

Quote:

What IS clear to me is that YOU are not happy with your current situation - your marriage. From what I gather right now, you suspect another A. and if that's the case then you're prepared to walk - is that correct?




That is correct but to be more accurate...A or no A if things don't change..I'm getting ready to walk.

Quote:

You say "either way something's gotta change" - but why does that change hinge on whether or not you find out he's having an A.?

it doesn't hinge on it..but if he is it makes change that much easier...he goes no questions, no explenations..it's over.


So tell me what you would do if you find out he's NOT having an A.?

Either way he's not present..and how can you find out someone NOT having an A.

Why not start implementing those changes right now? What do those changes look like? What is your part/responsibility in bringing about those changes you envision for yourself and the kids?

I've done all I can to make myself and my life better for me. H has chosen to detach himself from me/us and there's nothing I can do to bring him in.





Quote:

I really do hear your frustration, LL - and I can completely empathize with the situation. I see it every time someone tries to make a suggestion to you and you often respond "been there, done that".

Well I have...it's a rare occassion when someone suggests something I haven't done and it's frustrating to attempt to get that accross...especially to people that have read my posts sinc the begining.

But I gotta ask you that "IF something's gotta change," then who do you think is responsible for making that change, for deciding what that change will look like? (hint: YOU)

I've made plenty of changes...took note of the things h expressed displeasure with during seperation...kept with them...made more changes for myself...all it's served to do is make me a better person with a better life but still an empty m




Quote:

It does seem from this side of the screen that you have completely given up your DB'ing efforts - or talking to H. about the situation. If that's the case, then focus on YOU - only YOU can make it happen; make the life you want to live, regardless of whether or not there's an A. going on.





So continue to make my life what I want it to be but don't consider for a min that my m may just be one that isn't mean to be because then I'm a waw who just didn't db hard enough?
I can't make my h love me if he doens't. I can't make him want to spend time with me, I can't make him kiss me, I can't make him call me, I can't make him do anything at all...all I can do is be me and accept the fact that I can either accept "that's just the way I am" from him and live in a loveless marriage or I can move on.
I have talked to h about it...he doesn't have anything to say...he makes excuses for himself that I'm tired of hearing. Enough is enough...I deserve love and affection and I don't get that from h. Sometimes people do marry for the wrong reasons and I think h and I are those people.

#561893 10/27/05 03:22 PM
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LL,
I'm not sure how to say this so that it will be helpful and not construed as criticism, because honestly LL my intent is to help, not criticize. But I'm a pretty direct person so here goes.

WHAT exactly are you looking for here? Nowhere did I suggest that you haven't DB'ed enough or well. Nowhere did I mention that your changes should include your H or be about your M. Nowhere did I even mention your past changes - so whether or not they were plenty is irrelevant to me at this juncture. I simply asked YOU to define what you meant by "something's gotta change" - YOU tell me what that is.

Do you need me or anyone on the BB to give you an "OK" to leaving your H.? If that's all you want then, "OK, leave your H." But I really don't believe that's what you are after.

I hear great tiredness in your posts - AND great defensiveness too. You so dismissed my questions about what those changes would look like that you long to make, or more accurately 'poof, appear'. You keep saying you've made all the changes you can . . . Sweetie, I'm not talking about THOSE changes. I am asking you to stop getting defensive, stop bringing up the past changes & efforts and tell us WHAT exactly is going to change and how are you going to do it.

My guess from your posts is that this change you are talking about is that YOU are going to leave the M. That's what I understand. So okay, if that's the big change - what's it going to look like? How are you going to start implementing that? When are you going to DO something about the change you seek? Stop seeking to justify your desired change or making it easier by blaming H. & a possible other A. If you're that unhappy, and you feel you've done everything you could do - then stop looking at H. and start planning what YOU, and only YOU can do to get where you want to be.

Of course you deserve love & attention, we all do. I don't think I insinuated otherwise in my post. But we all know that you don't get much love & attention by casting stones & complaining.

Hmmmm, was I blunt enough?

Now, let me ask you again - What changes do you want to see happen? Are you moving? Are you filing? WHAT do you want to see happen in the next 12 months? Would perhaps taking a little time away by yourself help? I know you have small kids, but is there any way to take a long weekend and have some quiet time to think & ease up on yourself?

Hugs,
-H2H

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