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Hi again, LL!

is it just coincidence that most often when I write on my thread something negative you bump up one of these positive threads?

Yes, it really is just a coincidence! (At least this time it was, anyway!! )

Forgive my brevity for the moment, but I just wanted to touch base with you real quick, and will try to get back with you soon. Also, I wanted to commend you on all the GAL things you've been doing, and how hard you've been trying to get your marriage to where you want it to be.

Just to throw this out there for now, and not for any actions yet, it seems to me like "passive" forms of DB'ing have yielded results for you, but not quite the results you've been looking for. If I recall correctly, it seems like more "aggresive" DB'ing helped to at least bring him back to you. Is that correct?

Again, not for action yet, but I'm wondering what types of "drastic" 180's might be out there for you to really shake things up a bit? You've done so many things "right" so far, and maybe it's time to do something different?

Again, sorry to be so brief, but just some food for thought. Will try to get back with you some more later!


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Quote:

Hi again, LL!

is it just coincidence that most often when I write on my thread something negative you bump up one of these positive threads?

Yes, it really is just a coincidence! (At least this time it was, anyway!! )

I was noticing a treand

Forgive my brevity for the moment, but I just wanted to touch base with you real quick, and will try to get back with you soon. Also, I wanted to commend you on all the GAL things you've been doing, and how hard you've been trying to get your marriage to where you want it to be.

Thank you for noticing! I've done almost too well in gal...it's certainly helped to keep me busy and having things to look forward to but hasn't seemed to do much for my m

Just to throw this out there for now, and not for any actions yet, it seems to me like "passive" forms of DB'ing have yielded results for you, but not quite the results you've been looking for.

exactly!

If I recall correctly, it seems like more "aggresive" DB'ing helped to at least bring him back to you. Is that correct?

When h was gone it was easy to be aggressive. To detach, be mysterious etc. When he first returned it was easy to shake things up by letting him know my dissatisfactions with things..he then seemed more willing to make desired changes. Since then any "aggressive" action is counterproductive.

I'm stuck. It seems like all I've got left is a real LRT..meaning I once again let him know I'm not happy with things are and plan to take action...but am I ready to really go through with it? the last time I mentioned my disatisfaction with things he simply said "well that sux" and that was the end of the conversation and nothing changed.

Plus why should I have to be aggressive to get the simple things I want..after 15 years of trying to talk to him about us he knows what I want..why should I have to be aggressive about it? why should I be put in the position to feel like I have to force him to show me the love I want/need/deserve. Haven't I been through enough with him already for him to get it? I honestly feel like the only time he was being honest with me about his feelings was when he was leaving and that his return was only for our son (yes we have dd too but she was too young to have been affected by his absense the way son was) and out of the fears he may have had of simply assuming the same roll in ow's family. Maybe I put too much pressure on him to come home...maybe he shouldn't have but now we're just stuck playing house again.

I don't want him to be cheating again but it's almost like that's the only way I'm going to get him to open up and be honest about his feelings. Of course if he's cheating I'm done so there's no point in it. If he's not well he sure doesn't act like he's interested in being with me...I'm just "the wife".


Again, not for action yet, but I'm wondering what types of "drastic" 180's might be out there for you to really shake things up a bit? You've done so many things "right" so far, and maybe it's time to do something different?

The way I see it, there are only three drastic things I can do.

1. Snoop and find him cheating
2. cheat myself, and that's obviously a ridiculous idea!
3. contact a lawyer and let him know I'm considering D unless things drastically change.

any thoughts or other drastic measures I can take?


Again, sorry to be so brief, but just some food for thought. Will try to get back with you some more later!

sometimes brief is more than is needed. I do hope you check back in soon.

LL




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Hey LL,

Sorry you're having a rough go of it. I'm not sure what to say that will be particularly helpful...I think you already know my bent, right? Rough patches at home always lead to a re-reading of DR for me followed by a re-reading of Mars & Venus. The combination regrounds me, gets me back doing stuff that "works" (in my M, at least), etc. Throw in some meditation, a good dose of exercise and some QT with h (most likely just hanging out on the couch watching some sporting event!)...

You probably also can anticipate my other thoughts...those around snooping (which I guess one can classify the whole underwear thing as, right?). It just created so many bad feelings for me...so much badwill that I KNEW I was creating a negative mood. Maybe it's naive (I'm sure some will say so) but again, it just doesn't work for me.

But, hey, this isn't about ME or my M, right? What gets you and h back on track, LL?

Let me say one other thing...there was something in an earlier post of yours where you were irked (maybe not the right word) when h told son he would be home and not you directly (or told him things would be less busy soon, or whatever)...I remember way back when you not being pleased if h would buy you flowers and have the kids give them to you...could you see your way clear to being OK with h needing to use the kids as a communication buffer? It doesn't seem harmful for the kids and if it still gets the point across to you, does it really matter if he needs that crutch right now? Or, is all of this more related to the point you recently brought up that you feel h came back only for son?

Sage


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Quote:

Hey LL,

Sorry you're having a rough go of it. I'm not sure what to say that will be particularly helpful...I think you already know my bent, right? Rough patches at home always lead to a re-reading of DR for me followed by a re-reading of Mars & Venus. The combination regrounds me, gets me back doing stuff that "works" (in my M, at least), etc. Throw in some meditation, a good dose of exercise and some QT with h (most likely just hanging out on the couch watching some sporting event!)...

Sage by now you know that I don't get QT with my h not even in the form of watching tv. What I do works for Me makes me happier but doesn't change the status of my r with h and THAT is the problem. He's happy as long as I'm happy and leaving him alone.

You probably also can anticipate my other thoughts...those around snooping (which I guess one can classify the whole underwear thing as, right?). It just created so many bad feelings for me...so much badwill that I KNEW I was creating a negative mood. Maybe it's naive (I'm sure some will say so) but again, it just doesn't work for me.

You are completely ignoring the fact that I'm a housewife...I do h's laundry...in sorting laundry you see/feel things THAT is how I found the underwear. I don't inspect it on a regular basis but let's face it if your sorting clothes and pick up a pair of underwear that are cruchy aren't you going to wonder why?

But, hey, this isn't about ME or my M, right?

No, it's not.

What gets you and h back on track, LL?

when I ignore all the signs that things aren't working and just pretend to be happy...but then realize things really aren't on track I'm just ignoring the fact that they aren't.

Let me say one other thing...there was something in an earlier post of yours where you were irked (maybe not the right word) when h told son he would be home and not you directly (or told him things would be less busy soon, or whatever)...I remember way back when you not being pleased if h would buy you flowers and have the kids give them to you...could you see your way clear to being OK with h needing to use the kids as a communication buffer?

It's not OK Sage.

It doesn't seem harmful for the kids and if it still gets the point across to you, does it really matter if he needs that crutch right now?

That's exactly the point! it's a crutch!

Or, is all of this more related to the point you recently brought up that you feel h came back only for son?

BINGO! he makes it pretty clear in his actions around here that his return has little to do with a desire to have a r with me and more to "do the right thing" "sacrifice for his family" etc. yes those statements are in quotes because they are words he used upon his return. When I try to talk to him about it he's got nothing to say but "I'm doing the best I can" "that's jsut the way I am" trouble is Sage those are the very same words he used when I expressed displeasure with our r and guess what he was having an A. Hey look, some women might be perfectly happy with raising the kids, doing the laundry, cooking, cleaning the house, and then spending every evening alone while their h falls asleep in anther room, it might be OK to them that on the rare occassion that their h wants to have sex he wont even kiss her, it might be OK for them but it isn't for me and if that's just the way h is well it's not good enough for me and well he sold me a lie when he came home because then he certainly had time for me.
I don't complain to h anymore...don't question when he'll be home...don't complain when he's gone 12 hours and I don't hear from him...I do my best to let him be..but there does come a time when things need to be addressed..I do my best to not accuse but to simply point out how I feel about what's going on or not going on...when I do that I'm given no response or "that sux" or "I'm doing the best I can" or "that's just the way I am" or "it's a busy time right now" the only response that may seem valid is "it's a busy time" trouble is it's ALWAYS busy...if it's not fall clean ups, it's spring cleanups, snow storms, big projects, getting ready for snow, getting ready for spring, it's always something. It could be the dead of winter with no snow storms in sight and he'll still go to work (to do what I don't know) and then come home and fall asleep.
About the only thing that comes out of a converstation about the lack of us is that he suddenly spends more time with the kids but as soon as they're asleep or it's time for football or foxnews he's gone...back down to his cave. I'm tired of trying to pull him out of his cave..tired of waiting by the cave...tired of leaving a trail of crumbs for him...tired of walking away from the cave and doing my own thing to suddenly realize there's someone hiding in a cave around here...I've been doing that for 15 years and I don't want to do it anymore.


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You are completely ignoring the fact that I'm a housewife...I do h's laundry...in sorting laundry you see/feel things THAT is how I found the underwear. I don't inspect it on a regular basis but let's face it if your sorting clothes and pick up a pair of underwear that are cruchy aren't you going to wonder why?




I'm not ignoring anything, LL. I do laundry too (sorting, washing, drying, folding, even picking his clothes up off the floor) and still manage to do it without inspecting his clothes.

Quote:

Let me say one other thing...there was something in an earlier post of yours where you were irked (maybe not the right word) when h told son he would be home and not you directly (or told him things would be less busy soon, or whatever)...I remember way back when you not being pleased if h would buy you flowers and have the kids give them to you...could you see your way clear to being OK with h needing to use the kids as a communication buffer?

It's not OK Sage.

It doesn't seem harmful for the kids and if it still gets the point across to you, does it really matter if he needs that crutch right now?

That's exactly the point! it's a crutch!




A crutch doesn't have to be a long term solution. It's often the thing that people will use to test out the waters, see how something will be responded to. If you're overlaying receiving h's "messge" with a "I can't believe he's using son AGAIN" negative feeling, all that's getting transmitted is that you're negative about his communication. Not a great incentive for him to keep sharing, IMHO, with or without the crutch.


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BINGO! he makes it pretty clear in his actions around here that his return has little to do with a desire to have a r with me and more to "do the right thing" "sacrifice for his family" etc. yes those statements are in quotes because they are words he used upon his return.




Isn't it possible that his thoughts or explanation upon returning haven't stayed stagnant? He wouldn't be the first WAS to offer one reason and later experience another.

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When I try to talk to him about it he's got nothing to say but "I'm doing the best I can" "that's jsut the way I am" trouble is Sage those are the very same words he used when I expressed displeasure with our r and guess what he was having an A.




I think you're linking things that may or may not be related. Your h's "I'm doing the best I can" doesn't necessarily have to correlate with an A...he probably does feel as though he's doing the best he can.

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Hey look, some women might be perfectly happy with raising the kids, doing the laundry, cooking, cleaning the house, and then spending every evening alone while their h falls asleep in anther room, it might be OK to them that on the rare occassion that their h wants to have sex he wont even kiss her, it might be OK for them but it isn't for me and if that's just the way h is well it's not good enough for me and well he sold me a lie when he came home because then he certainly had time for me.




Quote:


I don't complain to h anymore...don't question when he'll be home...don't complain when he's gone 12 hours and I don't hear from him...I do my best to let him be..but there does come a time when things need to be addressed..I do my best to not accuse but to simply point out how I feel about what's going on or not going on...when I do that I'm given no response or "that sux" or "I'm doing the best I can" or "that's just the way I am" or "it's a busy time right now" the only response that may seem valid is "it's a busy time" trouble is it's ALWAYS busy...if it's not fall clean ups, it's spring cleanups, snow storms, big projects, getting ready for snow, getting ready for spring, it's always something. It could be the dead of winter with no snow storms in sight and he'll still go to work (to do what I don't know) and then come home and fall asleep.




So talking with him and telling him how you feel isn't working...that's not new. What other ways can you convey this to him?

Quote:

About the only thing that comes out of a converstation about the lack of us is that he suddenly spends more time with the kids but as soon as they're asleep or it's time for football or foxnews he's gone...back down to his cave. I'm tired of trying to pull him out of his cave..tired of waiting by the cave...tired of leaving a trail of crumbs for him...tired of walking away from the cave and doing my own thing to suddenly realize there's someone hiding in a cave around here...I've been doing that for 15 years and I don't want to do it anymore.





Why is doing your own thing equated with hiding in a cave?

I think I hear you saying that you've tried everything when h is in his cave (pulling, waiting, etc) but have you ever really stopped being pissed at your h, LL?

Sage

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I'm not ignoring anything, LL. I do laundry too (sorting, washing, drying, folding, even picking his clothes up off the floor) and still manage to do it without inspecting his clothes.




SO, if in picking up a pair of underwear your h left on the floor you felt them to be crunchy you wouldn't wonder why they were crunchy and look? you can't be serious.

Quote:

A crutch doesn't have to be a long term solution. It's often the thing that people will use to test out the waters, see how something will be responded to. If you're overlaying receiving h's "messge" with a "I can't believe he's using son AGAIN" negative feeling, all that's getting transmitted is that you're negative about his communication. Not a great incentive for him to keep sharing, IMHO, with or without the crutch.




I'd call three years a long term solution. It was cute when he first started doing it but the cuteness has worn off and I'd like my husband to direct himself towards me and stop using the kids as a go between.

Quote:

Isn't it possible that his thoughts or explanation upon returning haven't stayed stagnant? He wouldn't be the first WAS to offer one reason and later experience another.




Sure it's possible but I'm not looking at his words I'm looking at his actions...the words were just there...and to be honest it wasn't just upon his return that he said it...he continued to say it. The man doesn't talk he hides behind "that's just the way I am" "I'm doing the best I can" eventually with enough push he will speak and I've heard it being about the kids and the house more than once.

Quote:

I think you're linking things that may or may not be related. Your h's "I'm doing the best I can" doesn't necessarily have to correlate with an A...he probably does feel as though he's doing the best he can.




MAY or may not be...you're right it doesn't have to correlate with another or the same a...the point is "the best he can" isn't working.

Quote:

So talking with him and telling him how you feel isn't working...that's not new. What other ways can you convey this to him?




If I knew do you think I'd be posting to this site? no I'd be off having a happy healthy m with him.

Quote:

Why is doing your own thing equated with hiding in a cave?




it's not that doing your own thing means your in a cave but when night after night after night week after week month after month you continue to "do your own thing" and spend no time with your spouse it's like hiding in a cave.

Quote:

I think I hear you saying that you've tried everything when h is in his cave (pulling, waiting, etc) but have you ever really stopped being pissed at your h, LL?




I stopped being pissed at h a long time ago...Now I'm just pissed at myself.

LL

#495976 10/31/05 01:09 AM
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what if...

what if my h is just one of those guys whose happy to be the breadwinner have his wife bring him a cup of soup and doesn't need or desire much more (ie. the affection, qt I desire)

before seperation/outing of a...h and I did have a discussion (strangly prompted by him) of what makes a good h...h thought that being a good provider was worth 75% keeping the lawn looking good worth 15% or 20% I don't recall what else he gave credit too....Why h was suddenly questioning such things I don't know...but his thoughts do say a lot.

I know it's important for a man to feel like a provider but to the extent that h takes it?

I know a lot of people read my threads...I also know that a lot of the people that read my threads hear nothing but anger...though it make read as anger it's not...it's frustration! I'm proud of my h that he is the provider that he is...heck when I met him he didn't have a pot to piss in...litterally...I was with him before he started his business...I helped him start it. I'm proud of all he's done and I've said so.

What I'm not proud of is the fact that he's let it consume him.

There are so many things...so many things that I could say that may help explain my sit to you all...I'm sure it's all there in bits and pieces over the past 3 years...but here's the short version...

I met h when I was 16 ( a junior in hs) h was 19 ( a sophmore in college though he dropped out shortly after meeting me) we got married roughly 8 years later and have been married for 8 years. There were 3 or 4 break ups during the 8 years prior to m...all initiated by me why? for the very same reasons I talk about now...always fell asleep on me...didn't have time for me...rejected my sexually..etc. I'm honestly NOT rewritting history...it's the truth.

H is who he is...yes I chose to marry him despite my dipleasure with the way things were...there was a part of me that hoped it would get better...there was a part of me that believed him when he told me they would...trouble is over the years things didn't get better they got worse.

I come here for help because I don't really want to D...if I didn't have a family maybe that would be for the best but I don't want to put my children through it unless absolutely necessary.

I believe h IS capable...why else would I have kept going back to him...maybe he's just good at starting a r..paying attention giving the time and then retreats...maybe he doesn't know how to balance things...or maybe it's me like so many of you here try to have me believe.

in any case...I am looking for ways to make things better or to be certain it can't be made better.

LL

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I just read thru this thread, and the whole time I kept thinking - this lady is angry, she is upset about being stuck in her life, she is not happy about one single thing. And then this very last post gave me a little different sign. But LL, what ARE you happy about? I know you're busy and cook and clean and volunteer and do gobs of stuff for GAL, but does any of it make you happy? do you smile? We all have plenty of things to be sad and upset about, but we also usually have at least one thing to post that is happy or good. This thread started in July (?) and I didn't get that feeling one single time from you.

Would this be possible and be a 180? ask H for 1 hour during the day and you and the kids could meet him for lunch. Or just you. Just one hour.


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Well worldchampionwife,

I did have a nice long post listing all the happy things in my life and don't you know my cat came walking across the keyboard and somehow left me with a blank slate. It's what she does when I sit here...walks back and forth til finally finding her spot atop the monitor where all I can see is the occassional glimpse of her glowing eyes.

All I can say now is that I life a full life...I laugh...I make others laugh...I spend a lot of time with friends, family, my kids doing all kinds of great things...fishing with son, dancing/singing with dd, joking/dancing/singing karaokee with my friends...reading enjoyable books etc.

I am a very happy person...I love to laugh...love to make jokes...love to make others laugh....

I came to this site almost 4 years ago when my h moved out...that was a time when I posted every day...when you'd see more of the day to day...good And bad...I don't come as often anymore...most often now I post when I'm frustrated or when someone replies to me so of course all you're going to see is the neg.


Quote:

Would this be possible and be a 180? ask H for 1 hour during the day and you and the kids could meet him for lunch. Or just you. Just one hour.




because of the hours h works he doesn't see the kids much...there was no way around it before (I used to call on my way home from prenatal apt when I was preg with dd so he could at least see son awake...I'd ask him if he could grab lunch with us but he was always too busy)...but after learning of his a...that occured all during the day (he admitted to having lunch with her at least 3x a week)...upon his return I suggested that when he knows he's going to have the free time he let me know and I'd come down to visit with the kids for a quick lunch (grab some subs, go to the park etc)...it happend once and that was the end of that. now he's too busy. I'd love to have one hour but he claims to not even have the time for a phone call never mind an hour. "just" one hour to you and to me sounds like "just" one hour but I can't even get a 1 min phone call from him during the day.

I don't mean to sound so negative...I'm not a negative person...I try to see the postive in things but after a while it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

I really don't know what to do anymore...I don't want to D but right now it seems like the only other option is to just pretend I'm OK with this life...that's not fair to me...to H or more importantly to the kids...we all deserve to be happy.

LL


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