Quote: more importantly it's not about h and I being too different to be together...it's more about h being a player in the sense that he will give the r his all until he knows he's in and then poof back to mr I'll do what I want when I want even if that means acting like you don't exist.
What would you say your role in this part of the dance is?
IOW, you've said that h gets in until he's in and then starts ignoring you.
Are there any changes in YOUR behavior when he's IN? Is it possible that you get more "something" at that time? More demanding? More critical? Less appreciative? Anything?
It doesn't even have to be something particularly insidious or negative...it could be as mild as not listening quite as attentively or whatever.
And, I'm not suggesting for a SECOND that whatever h's actions are at that pivot point don't completely trump yours in negativity but since I can't post to him about his, I'll focus on yours.
Quote: C'mon sage, you've read enough of my stuff to know that I'm not just talking about two people being different...I'm talking about no longer being able to stand the inconsistancy with which h approaches the m. months can go by without us having a conversation that isn't "did you call the septic people" "I've got an appointment tonight" and spending time together??? forget about it.
Waht kinds of conversations are you thinking about? R talks or more benign stuff like about the movies, etc?
Is it possible that if h pulls away a bit (which is normal but still hard to deal with) you guys get into a cycle where your get irked that he's pulling away and he reacts to that by pulling away even more which then translates into months instead of days? Again, I realize that this is putting the burden all on you (because couldn't h say "hon, I'm feeling like I need a bit of space right now but I'll be back" instead of reacting negatively to you)...
Quote: I let him be...pretend that's "just who he is" but find it disturbing that he is attentive and alert for other things, other people etc.
Why should I once again get the sh!t end of the stick with him? why should I pretend he's a square instead of accepting that he's just a player and I'm just his wife.
I guess I don't completely understand what you mean by "player".
I'm not saying pretend he's a square...he IS a square in your eyes, right? From what I can glean from your posts, h:
works extremely hard at his job puts the business above other commitments enjoys serious relaxation at home (tv, couch, etc) enjoys going out with friends to sporting events
and you: work extremely hard at your job like more together time than he does (particularly going out) have a higher drive than h
and a jillion other things, right?
I'm not doing this well and I'm actually running out of time so I'll get to the point...
what worked wonders for me in my sitch was to stop judging my h for his differences from me. And to kick up the appreciation for pretty much every darned thing that he does. What it translated into was he has a much healthier respect for MY differences from him (though I still occasionally feel as though I'm more tolerant) and he has significantly more appreciation for what I do.
That kind of goodwill just breeds more goodwill.
I know this sounds simplistic but IMHO when I stopped railing against his differences he was much more likely to take a step closer to me. IOW, when I stopped bitching about how all he ever wanted to do was stay at home and watch tv and even started suggesting it and enjoying it, he became far more open to doing what I wanted to do...etc.
I gotta run. I'll be back.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
There's the behavior that your h was displaying when he was involved in his EA and there's the behavior that your h displays when he's not (some are the same and some are different, right? IOW, I'm sure you can think of some actions from "that time" that would not happen in another time and some that would)
unfortunatley the only thing different I can't mesure because I no longer initiate any physical contact with him (too much rejection...it's not worth it...I'd rather avoid the fight) everything else is pretty much the same. and then there's the MAN behind the behaviors. The behaviors and actions are dramatically distinct from the MAN.
I think I know what you mean, but then I also don't really know what you mean.
Your response to me indicated that you thought I was focusing on the behaviors but what I was really focusing on the man...(and here's where the bluntness comes in)...sometimes when I read your posts I don't get the sense that you are dismayed/irked/angry with the BEHAVIOR, I get the sense that you are dismayed/irked/angry or dare I say it dismissive with the MAN. well YES, because the MAN has displayed to me in the past that he is capable and enjoys behaving differently just doesn't continue with it...I've said plenty of times over...I wouldn't mind his sleepy homebody ways if there was some balance but there isn't.
And if I can feel it, I suspect that h feels it as well (though that is an ASSumption and may be truly unfair and just plain wrong).
I'd be willing to bet he feels it a heck of a lot less now than he did pre sep bre bomb. I don't verbally or otherwise complain about it...I just go about my business.
So, it's one thing to say "h is uninvolved in our m because he does this and that" and quite another to say "h is a XYZ man because he does this and that".
I'm saying h is univolved in the m because he CHOOSES not to be and that is a reflection of either who he is or how much he values the r
Don't get me wrong...we ALL do the latter but if we can focus on the former, well, it leaves a much better (not bitter) taste in the mouths of our spouse.
To me, evoking the "beginner's mind" is key to focusing on actions not the self...iow...my h isn't "completely uncommunicative" but he is "unwilling to talk about R topics late at night".
or in the morning, the afternoon, on sundays pretty much anytime is NOT a good time.
Quote: There is just nothing left between us anymore...we are two strangers living in the same house.
Why IS that LL? Seriously. Why do you think that you and h are two strangers in the house?
because he leaves at 5:30 am while we are all asleep, goes about his day, may call when he's on his way home @ 5:30pm and when he gets home @ 7pm, eats, checks the weather, then either sits on the deck on his cell phone, retires to the basement to watch sports or news or just goes straight to bed. so how can we be friends?
What do you think h is bringing to this table?
the security of someone else in the house, a well maintained yard and the bills paid.
But, even MORE importantly...what do you think YOU are bringing?
I make the house a home, I care for the children, I cook for everybody and do their laundry all the cleaning, keep the peace and try to keep myself happy.
Quote: more importantly it's not about h and I being too different to be together...it's more about h being a player in the sense that he will give the r his all until he knows he's in and then poof back to mr I'll do what I want when I want even if that means acting like you don't exist.
What would you say your role in this part of the dance is?
IOW, you've said that h gets in until he's in and then starts ignoring you.
Are there any changes in YOUR behavior when he's IN?
I'm more relaxed, more receptive, more likely to spend time with him doing things he likes to do (like watching news television etc)
Is it possible that you get more "something" at that time? More demanding? More critical? Less appreciative? Anything?
It doesn't even have to be something particularly insidious or negative...it could be as mild as not listening quite as attentively or whatever.
And, I'm not suggesting for a SECOND that whatever h's actions are at that pivot point don't completely trump yours in negativity but since I can't post to him about his, I'll focus on yours.
Quote: C'mon sage, you've read enough of my stuff to know that I'm not just talking about two people being different...I'm talking about no longer being able to stand the inconsistancy with which h approaches the m. months can go by without us having a conversation that isn't "did you call the septic people" "I've got an appointment tonight" and spending time together??? forget about it.
Waht kinds of conversations are you thinking about? R talks or more benign stuff like about the movies, etc?
benign stuff..sharing thoughts on the day, friends, what's going on in eachothers lives etc.
Is it possible that if h pulls away a bit (which is normal but still hard to deal with) you guys get into a cycle where your get irked that he's pulling away and he reacts to that by pulling away even more which then translates into months instead of days? Again, I realize that this is putting the burden all on you (because couldn't h say "hon, I'm feeling like I need a bit of space right now but I'll be back" instead of reacting negatively to you)...
he has said it...trouble is "right now" lasts months at a stretch.
Quote: I let him be...pretend that's "just who he is" but find it disturbing that he is attentive and alert for other things, other people etc.
Why should I once again get the sh!t end of the stick with him? why should I pretend he's a square instead of accepting that he's just a player and I'm just his wife.
I guess I don't completely understand what you mean by "player".
he knows I'm his and I'll be there waiting when he's ready so he doesn't have to put forth the consistant effort into maintaining the r.
I'm not saying pretend he's a square...he IS a square in your eyes, right? From what I can glean from your posts, h:
works extremely hard at his job puts the business above other commitments enjoys serious relaxation at home (tv, couch, etc) enjoys going out with friends to sporting events
and you: work extremely hard at your job like more together time than he does (particularly going out) now that I can't say I believe..if it were the case why did he like more time together with ow? she got lunch with him 3x a week...I don't recall the last time we sat and ate together. have a higher drive than h
and a jillion other things, right? yes and no
I'm not doing this well and I'm actually running out of time so I'll get to the point...
what worked wonders for me in my sitch was to stop judging my h for his differences from me. And to kick up the appreciation for pretty much every darned thing that he does. What it translated into was he has a much healthier respect for MY differences from him (though I still occasionally feel as though I'm more tolerant) and he has significantly more appreciation for what I do.
That kind of goodwill just breeds more goodwill.
I know this sounds simplistic but IMHO when I stopped railing against his differences he was much more likely to take a step closer to me. IOW, when I stopped bitching about how all he ever wanted to do was stay at home and watch tv and even started suggesting it and enjoying it, he became far more open to doing what I wanted to do...etc.
I stopped bitching, naggin, complaining, etc a long time ago...I think he just takes it as all is well.
ll -- h is taking the early train (I drop him off) so I don't have time for a proper reply...I'll rely on DB for guidance...what has worked in the past to get you guys out of this kind of slump? Is it doing something that makes you feel better? (nights out with "the girls", shopping, taking a class?) or is it something that draws you and h closer together? (a movie? some exercise?)
I know I"m being entirely too simplistic here but I"m not looking to suggest "THE FIX" but more to the point maybe the first step towards getting out of this cycle.
More later (tomorrow most likely)
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quote: I know I"m being entirely too simplistic here but I"m not looking to suggest "THE FIX" but more to the point maybe the first step towards getting out of this cycle
trouble is, it no longer feels like a cycle...it feels more like a rut. In the past what would have ended it is for me to first make it worse by bringing it into the open...in other words to stop just going about my business letting keeping happy while the drift between us grows and mention my displeasure with the current path of the r (or noting the seeming lack of).
That talk would normally end with a fight due to his lack of having anything to add or take away..which would then lead to more distance which inevitably would lead to him rejoining the living.
I have been going out a bit more with friends and I think that is having some effect on h though not enough. The past two Sundays h has made the suggestion and followed through with spending a family day at our towns private beach (lakefront). So we fish, swim, hang out etc at the lake and eventually start to feel like a normal family only to arive home where h just falls right back into his falling asleep. Yesterday for example we got home from the lake @ 7..by 7:30 h was asleep and I was bathing and putting the kids to bed myself..h has also starting telling son he can sleep in our bed for a while which of course leaves me to carry a 45+ lb 6 year old to his own bed if I'd like to sleep in mine...enough of that so I've slept in the guest room with no comment from h.
several months back h had an "anxiety attack" and was given some pills to take...he's been put on Paxil (to take daily) and also has some other pills to take when needed (which seems to be once or twice a day). He also seems to be drinking a bit more (beer) than is common for him (at least a beer or two nightly before crashing as well as drinking at the lake each sun).
I could assume his falling asleep is a result of the medication/drinking...but he's been falling asleep early for years.
maybe I should just ask him if he's still interested in an open marriage..or maybe I should just give in and let those that want to follow him follow him and see what (if anything) he's up to.
LL - Does your H snore or have restless leg syndrome? Sleep apnea or other sleep disorders can cause excessive daytime lethargy and falling asleep early. Depression can also cause excessive sleepiness. And if those anti-anxiety pills he takes are Valium or Librium or Xanax or a related drug, they cause sedation AND it is dangerous to take them with alcohol (that's the combo that put Karen Ann Quinlan into her coma).
Please go with him to his doctor and try to straighten this stuff out. It might make a big difference.
Lost Love, I'm not a doctor, but maybe your h is a narcissist. Why don't you got to a therapist and explain, see what they think. Start setting money aside, seems like you've already got a life.
Quote: Does your H snore or have restless leg syndrome?
neither.
Quote: Sleep apnea or other sleep disorders can cause excessive daytime lethargy and falling asleep early. Depression can also cause excessive sleepiness.
I don't believe it to be a sleep disorder...it's more a socializing disorder. unless h is involved in something he enjoys (watching football, racing, hanging with his buddies) he will fall asleep anywhere.
Quote: And if those anti-anxiety pills he takes are Valium or Librium or Xanax or a related drug, they cause sedation AND it is dangerous to take them with alcohol (that's the combo that put Karen Ann Quinlan into her coma).
he's on Paxil on a day and clorazapan (I can't find the correct spelling to look it up as he keeps those with him and leaves them in the truck) as needed (which I believe is one or two a day while out an about...not on weekends or in the evening, unless he pops one before coming in the door)
Quote: Please go with him to his doctor and try to straighten this stuff out. It might make a big difference.
clear example of the kind of relationship we DON'T have. I am not his mother and would never be invited nor would I impose myself to go to the doctor with him. I've asked him in the past about certain issues and if he's taken them up with his doctor. Basic point is...I don't have nor do I wish to make the time to run off to the doctor with him...he wont listen to the doctor (who recommended he see a phychiatrist.) why would he listen if I'm there too.
Quote: Lost Love, I'm not a doctor, but maybe your h is a narcissist. Why don't you got to a therapist and explain, see what they think. Start setting money aside, seems like you've already got a life.
drive than h
