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Good Morning Dyn

Good to see you digging into yourself. Getting a handle on your values and what you want in life.

Originally Posted by Dynamiq
W is going to take the kids to dinner at a family member this weekend. I'm invited but I'm going to phone ahead and make my apologies. The thought of 3 hrs in the car with W doesn't really appeal to me right now. I get the feeling W doesn't want me to go and a small part of me would go and be my super charming self just to annoy her but that would be petty. I have lots of 'me stuff' to work on instead...

My two cents: you should go. Embrace family time. Lead by example. Be the lighthouse. Act as if.

You are correct, definitely do not be petty and purposely annoy W.

I’d also change your viewpoint and projected dreading the three hour car ride with W. We do make our fate. Small behaviours are picked up and alter things. When you have pre-decided that the car ride will be bad, your mind will make it that way.

What you say, and predict, it’s powerful. Your mind is always listening and will craft your reality just as you are asking it to. Flip your preconception. Dial those expectations to zero. For unmet expectations lead to resentments. Even unmet “negative” expectations.

Instead, you control you. Go into this car ride as three hours with your kids and W. Not something full of dread and what might be. Make it what you want. Like your inner work. What do you want in life? Spending time with your kids is likely high on that list. Being Dad. So do it. Not try, do. There is no try.

Your mindset, a strong mindset, can and will influence plenty. If W starts some crap in the car ride, ignore it. Like dog training, ignore the negative and reward the positive. You only control you, yet do not short change your ability to influence. Especially the atmosphere of a car ride.

Besides, a few car games, signing to music, will make the time fly by. And touches on your inner work priorities: Friends, family, music, connection, commitment, travel.

Originally Posted by Dynamiq
How does one apologize, and make it clear that it is my personal choice not to attend without letting them know that it's because of difficulties in the marriage?

Yes, it is your personal choice. Yet to me, I think you’d be going if your marriage wasn’t having difficulties. Hence, my suggestion to go.

Be genuine and sincere and honest with everyone and above all, yourself.

Originally Posted by Dynamiq
Also, what about inviting friends over to the house while living with a miserable, shut down wife?

Same thing, zero your expectations. You are expecting W to behave/respond a certain way.

My suggestion, ask/tell her you are having/planning on having some friends over on whatever night. Invite her to attend. See what her response is. She may perk up, she may be mad, or whatever. Who knows. Don’t walk on eggshells. See her response and roll with it.

Be kind and see where her head is at. Like a roommate. They don’t have veto power, yet you don’t go out of your way to bug them.

Have no expectations. Allow yourself to be surprised. Going into things with a different outlook usually crafts a different outcome. Of course sometimes it may not. However, it is guaranteed not to when we start out looking to make it that way.

That’s a pretty good inner value to adopt, IMHO.

D


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Thanks for the thoughtful and challenging reply DnJ.

I suppose I have been getting a bit negative today. A bit angry I suppose. I've been going through the LBS stages of grief as well and I think I'm between depression and acceptance. But anger pops up regularly. It's easier to see in hindsight and my progress did dip for a while. It's to be expected.

I suppose with this at home limbo it's just difficult to know what I'm supposed to be doing. If there was an obvious ongoing affair or she moved out it would be clear. I get that she's in crisis of some kind but I don't see that as an excuse for treating me the way she is. I just feel like giving her very little of my time and attention, like she is doing to me. I'm getting no help in healing from her so I feel I have enough on my plate. Attraction and respect are low or non existant should I not just show her that I'm ready to move on?

I feel closer to ending things myself at the moment. You might then ask why am I here. I suppose because some of the better advice I've seen is here. I'm confused and don't know if the situation can be turned around.

I do want to save my marriage and keep my family together but not at the cost of my happiness and mental health.

I'll sleep on it before I decide about the weekend plans.


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You said, “ I just feel like giving her very little of my time and attention, like she is doing to me.”

It’s good to acknowledge your feelings express them here process them let them go and not let them be your compass or rudder.

You are a grown man responsible for your actions and thus use as your guide things more reliable and sound than your feelings and how she has been treating you.

There is a lot at stake for you with or without her and in spite of how she treats you.

Hey I can relate. Feelings wow intense and powerful- at times unrelenting..

Last edited by Rockon; 01/31/25 10:30 PM.

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I went on the trip in the end. I was in a better mood. Felt like being sociable and wanted to enjoy some good food and company. The kids loved it. Had a great time. Not much hassle from W except the usual coldness and a bit of criticism of my driving which I let wash over me.

I'm still reading, exercising, working on the home, being social with friends, doing things for me.

Really digging in to reclaiming my dark side, my fun side, my adventurous side. It's so easy to fall into the discipline of routine when being a dad and having to provide for a family. We can lose some parts of ourselves slowly over time.

Time and patience is one thing but I will soon have to see some progress from W. I had a timeline for reevaluating in mind. I see no reason not to assert what I want and expect from a marriage. Why shouldnt I? We need to get unstuck.


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Hey Dynamiq,

Originally Posted by Dynamiq
We can lose some parts of ourselves slowly over time.

You'll find that pretty common in our stories here. It seems to be true both in the WAS and the LBS. It was true of me.

Originally Posted by Dynamiq
Time and patience is one thing but I will soon have to see some progress from W. I had a timeline for reevaluating in mind. I see no reason not to assert what I want and expect from a marriage. Why shouldnt I? We need to get unstuck.

On those timelines ... I'm not sure if you have really grasped how long these things take. Stories here that helped me understand were from Sandi2, AmyC, and FightingFit. Read through the thread below to see inside the mind of a woman who was in an A and what it took to come out. Her H was apparently broken by the attempt to wait that long.

Originally Posted by FightingFit
I think it takes about 2 years after the Affair for the person to truly reconnect to their partner and truly begin to see their behavior for how bad it was and truly ASSIMILATE the shame enough to finally feel REGRET. as I said, lets hope you can make it that long. there is no short cut.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1772834&page=all

...her estimate was two years AFTER the A is over and no contact to BEGIN to reconnect.

g


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Hi! I’m kinda new here, and I resonated a bit with your story. It’s so hard to want to be the bigger person when our S is doing things to hurt us…it seems like you are doing a great job trying to work on yourself and be there for your kids. I’m trying to do the same.

I keep trying to remind myself about patience too, my H is in what I believe is a MLC and seems this could be a very long road…where will we all end up I often wonder?

Anyway, wishing the best for you!

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Thanks for posting that Grok. I have read a lot on this site but I hadn't seen any of FightingFit's posts before. I will be reading through that again. It's a great insight.

Yes, I have read numerous times about the 2+ years timeline but from what I read in FightingFit's post, I should not be afraid of applying more tough love in terms of my W's secrecy, suspicious behaviour and failure to act like she's in the M. I know the feelings will take a long while to follow and I don't want W to be forced back to the M. The debate seems to be about being tough and getting respect but W being 'forced' back vs DB'ing and her (maybe) WANTING to eventually come back to the M.

As it stands I'm more and more unsure if I want this woman back. Correction - I DON'T want THIS woman. I suppose I'm holding on to the hope of a healed version of my old wife.

I know I have more work to do on myself so that is part of what gives me some more patience.

The more I read on here, and especially FightingFits posts, and when I look back in hindsight at my own sitch, the moment we husbands expose or confront the affair is the time where we have the most power to turn the situation around. We really need to compose ourselves, not be afraid and leverage this situation to our advantage. I thought I went pretty hard/tough but I realise now that I wasn't tough enough. My wife should have been out to stay at her parents or OMs or wherever and not allowed back until certain conditions were met. My mistake was not enforcing those conditions.

I think how I expected her to act wasn't what ended up happening so I didn't have everything in place. I was too caught up in the MLC narrative of leaving the affair alone (that is probably more applicable to MLC H's than for W's).

My strength and detachment is getting more each day as well. At the moment I'm happy pulling away and getting my own life back on track but I think we'll naturally reach a point where I run out of patience.


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Thanks for the support Lets.

Yes, I'm sure my W is in some sort of identity crisis. She has an avoidant personality I think and has been bottling up things for years probably. Her emotions seem to be overwhelming her at the moment. So withdrawn, cold, distant. Sometimes in an ok mood. Sometimes irritable. Different from a lot of MLCs.

Be strong, look inside to find your own true values, start to live them. Our S aren't choosing us so we need to choose ourselves.


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Good Morning Dyn

Glad the weekend went “basically” smoothly.

Good for you not engaging in her obvious digs; letting her comments just wash over you. Our spouse knows us best, and knows what buttons to push. Knows how to get their hooks into us. You remaining calm, not taking her bait, likely turned the tables on her. Made her think. She didn’t get the usually response from you.

Originally Posted by Dynamiq
I suppose with this at home limbo it's just difficult to know what I'm supposed to be doing. If there was an obvious ongoing affair or she moved out it would be clear. I get that she's in crisis of some kind but I don't see that as an excuse for treating me the way she is. I just feel like giving her very little of my time and attention, like she is doing to me. I'm getting no help in healing from her so I feel I have enough on my plate. Attraction and respect are low or non existant should I not just show her that I'm ready to move on?

True, her crisis is not an excuse for treating you like she is. Her emotional turmoil is a reason for her treatment. That does not exonerate her behaviour, just somewhat explains it.

Likewise, her treatment of you is not an excuse for you to behave poorly. Consider your vows, the part of in sickness and in health. W is ill. Do you stand? Or do you run?

Embrace limbo. Dig into yourself. Find you. Become the best version of you. For you! Dynamiq2.0. A man only a fool would leave.

You cannot control W from doing something foolish. You only control you.

Originally Posted by Dynamiq
I feel closer to ending things myself at the moment. You might then ask why am I here. I suppose because some of the better advice I've seen is here. I'm confused and don't know if the situation can be turned around.

I do want to save my marriage and keep my family together but not at the cost of my happiness and mental health.

Detachment is when you are no longer uncontrollably drag around by her words or behaviour. The key here being “uncontrollably”. You will still feel, yet you can exert influence and affect those feelings.

After detachment comes indifference. A temporary period of numbness towards one’s spouse. Note: Temporary. It will feel like that numbness is forever, will last forever. Like all feelings, it is fleeting. The numbness does fade and one’s feelings do return.

So, a caution. During indifference be aware that other feelings will loom much larger than they really are against the void of one’s “indifferent” love. Make no major decision during this period which are predicated upon your feelings or lack thereof.

Indifference is an excellent time to find one’s self. To do that so very important inner work. Indifference silences the cacophony of our spouse-induced feelings. One can really dig in sans distraction. Make the most of that fleeting time.

Realize happiness comes from within. Of course, so does unhappiness. And joy, elation, and so on. You are your well-spring.

Most folks never get thrust upon this path. For those willing to embrace DB, embrace their inner work, this is a golden opportunity.

DB may not save your marriage; after all W does have a say in that. However, embracing DB will save you!

Originally Posted by Dynamiq
Time and patience is one thing but I will soon have to see some progress from W. I had a timeline for reevaluating in mind. I see no reason not to assert what I want and expect from a marriage. Why shouldnt I? We need to get unstuck.

Pressure. Too much will push her right out the door.

Timelines. W, and her crisis, is not on your timeline. Embrace limbo. Embrace hope.

Hope is timeless. A timeline places an end point, a deadline, upon things. A deadline does just that - makes hope dead.

During all this, you don’t sit around waiting for W. No pinning away. Find thyself. Heal thyself. Become Dynamiq2.0.

Live and love your life. Love your kids. Do activities with them. Do activities by yourself. Invite W along on family events. Live your best life, and let W run to catch up, if she chooses to.

You cannot force her. And you likely wouldn’t want a spouse who was forced anyhow.

Figure out your boundaries against disrespectful behaviour, don’t walk on eggshells, be kind and cordial. That’s how you embrace limbo. You choose to.

In my opinion, the best way to assert in a relationship, demonstrate it. Live it. And let them follow your lead. Actions vs words.

You can’t talk your way out of something you acted your way into.

D


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Thanks Dnj

Originally Posted by Dnj
Good for you not engaging in her obvious digs; letting her comments just wash over you. Our spouse knows us best, and knows what buttons to push. Knows how to get their hooks into us. You remaining calm, not taking her bait, likely turned the tables on her. Made her think. She didn’t get the usually response from you.

The thing about this is that I've always had an even temper, I very rarely react with anger or 'rise to the bait'. Maybe that would be a 180 for me, to show a bit more 'heat' and emotion.

Thanks to Grok's link to FightingFit I found a great old thread with a very similar Limbo situation to mine...

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1783694&page=1

Now, I haven't read to the end so I'm not sure how the sitch eventually played out. The OP of this thread seems to have spent a long time (years) analysing his wife's actions, posting a lot and not getting a life or standing up for himself as much as he should from what I see.

The real value in the thread is in the replies, the debates and the tips on attraction, forgiveness, detachment, friendliness, seduction, assertiveness.

It is helping me tie up all the advice I've been getting here, in IC, from friends, from other sources. There are so many conflicts in my mind that are now starting to dissolve into glimpses of clarity...

Detachment vs being a friend vs attraction and seduction. Patience vs assertiveness. GAL vs be the lighthouse. Do 180s vs finding your true self.

There is a path through that combines all these elements. It takes time to see it. It comes slowly. Reading what others have gone through, reading all the advice, reading books etc gives us a head start. It moves us more quickly than we could by just muddling through alone. It gives hope in times where we might just give up. It challenges our biases and blind spots. It gives an insight into our S where they are unable or unwilling to enlighten us themselves.

Reading these posts is so interesting and some great insights are there to be found but it also has to be balanced with quiet time alone to process the info and find one's own way. It's too easy to get lost in analysis thinking there is an answer to be found if we just look hard enough. I have been guilty of this since I am quite an analytical person, a fixer. A truth that I know in theory but still need to internalise is that only 50% of this situation is mine to fix. There is another 50% that is out of my control.

Also, there is only so much time in the day and all the time reading and posting here and elsewhere is time that isn't spent GALing. These things need to be balanced too...

My IC is also advising patience, friendship, to relax and stop strategizing so much or worrying about tactics. To just take the pressure off myself and approach the situation honestly. To shelve my need to see accountability, remorse etc for now. Those things will come in time if there is to be an R. I think my need/want for these things has been a blockage to me getting on with what I need to do to make an R possible. This will be the difficult part for me.

What we learn in DB is a lot of tactics, that gets us through the first weeks/months after BD. I think ultimately the goal needs to be recentering, finding our true, best selves and then going forward without needing all the 'tactics'. It then becomes second nature. This is the real work - finding our own path so we can proceed with true confidence and integrity.


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