At the name of Jesus, Satan has to flee

[Whatlee]

Thanks job for fixing my thread and the advice.
My plan was not to respond.

Strangely enough, I had no reaction. I have peace. The only explanation for that is God. I'm so glad that 2yrs ago after bomb drop I ran to the church, it was the only place I had peace, now I carry that peace with me everyday. Yes, I do have struggle days, they are far and few between. I know that no matter what happens, I'M GONNA BE OK.

I will continue to stand on the promises that God gives us on marriage. I've turned this battle over to him and I am claiming my victory. Still trusting and believing.


Previous thread.

[Whatlee]

I think divorce is on his bucket list.

I mean who did he think he was 2yrs ago saying ILYBINILWY...as if. Does H think that in the 32yrs of marriage I haven't had the same feelings? You know what you do you fight through those feelings cause they do pass.
Sorry I know that's random. From time to time I think abt things that were said and I think, As If. Certain things stick out the most, like when he said he's a good looking guy and could be with a different woman every night....ok cledus, do what u feel like u need to do. Or when he said in his mind we wasn't together anymore...smh, the multiple times he said we will never b together again, I guess he was trying to convince himself. I could go on and on but I won't bore y'all. I'm sure yall have heard similar things.

I feel like he's circling back to last year when he was so adamant about a divorce, is that common for them to circle back to a stage of MLC?

My counselor said if I choose to stand it would b rough, I'm ready for it. A year ago I couldn't have said that. I've come a long way.

[DnJ]

Good Morning What

is that common for them to circle back to a stage of MLC?

Yep. That’s the replay stage. They keep circling back to replay, relive, their younger lives.

H’s circling back to the possibility/threat of divorce is due to how he feels. H’s idea that a divorce will make him feel better, that it will be the road to some mythical happiness, is likely swelling up again. It’s pretty common for MLCers to cycle back and forth. H will likely turn up the baiting of you, try to get you into arguments and such. It’s his effort to find/craft justifications for his narrative.

You know better. Let H do the heavy-lifting. Don’t take the bait. Let his rants go unanswered. Remember, believe none of what they say, and only half of what they do.

Do have your ducks in row, and be prepared if H does take a sudden shift. Otherwise, focus on you. Keep living and loving your life.

D

[Whatlee]

A song for our MLCers

Zach Williams, "Looking for You"

All the times that I worked
Hard because I believed
That life could have meanin'
Through things I've achieved
You knew I was lookin' for You
Every time I thought romance might
Fill up the hole
That incomplete feelin' still ached
In my soul
Oh, You knew I was lookin' for You
Down a hundred highways of empty pursuit
And a thousand foolish things I went through
Didn't know it back then, but now I do
I was lookin' for You
I was lookin' for You
When I couldn't find comfort in
The things I could buy
When the party was over and
The bottle was dry
Oh, You knew I was lookin' for You
Oh, and I went searchin'
Down a hundred highways of empty pursuit
And a thousand foolish things I went through
Didn't know it back then, but now I do
I was lookin' for You
I was lookin' for You
Through the canyons and the heartaches
And the valleys of pain
And down those pathways full of pleasure
And those dead end roads of shame
Oh, I couldn't name the hunger
That I tried to satisfy
Down a hundred highways of empty pursuit
And a thousand foolish things I went through
In a moment
I looked up from down on my knees
And I cried out to Heaven
I could finally see
Jesus, Jesus, I know it's true
All of my life I was lookin' for

[Whatlee]

I guess H is replaying back to when he originally filed, cause today I received his response to my response filed almost a year ago. H still doesn't want to give me spousal support, after 32yrs of marriage he thinks I deserve nothing. My atty says it's a BS offer and asked for permission to be able to remove her gloves. I told her, "you said she was a bad a$$, so be a bad a$$, remove the gloves." H chose this, so I'm not gonna make it easy on him. Just like we tell our kids, there's a consequence to every action.

[job]

Of course he doesn't want to give you spousal support. If they had their way, we all would be on the street with a tin cup begging for coins. They want everything they can get and leave us broke. That's not the way the legal system works and he's in for a rude awakening. There are consequences for his actions and just like a teenager, he's going to get a wakeup call because of his actions.

Your attorney can handle anything that is thrown at her and you. I think you already know this...do not discuss the legalities with him. If he wants to talk to you about it, refer him to your attorney. (I would venture to say that the ow is putting pressure on him and that's why he's come back around to this divorce situation.) I hope he doesn't drag this out. Many of them scream and kick about wanting a divorce and then drag it out and lots of money spent when it could have been over and done in a reasonable time frame.

Hang in there.

[Whatlee]

Omgoodness so glad the site is back up. I've missed reading everybody's updates.

The last time I posted I had received H"s response to my response. My atty is handling everything and I trust her. She has requested an emergency petition(whatever that means), if anybody has any insight on that please let me know. I'm just really looking forward to being able to get out of this camper and into my own place. I'm not trying to take him to the cleaners(he really has nothing), just want to be able to afford a place where I don't have to be afraid that I'm gonna b kicked out at any given moment.

I think back to his last text and how kid like it sounded. "(My name), I'm ready to be divorced. We need to end this." Bless his heart(i dont mean that in a southern way, i truly mean bless his heart),he's such a child.

I went with my S25 to help my S22 move week before last. We had a lot of time on the ride to talk. S25 doesn't see that his dad is not normal, I didn't try to convince him otherwise. I'm sure given time they will see for themselves. H is very calm, cool and collected and appears to have it all together and he might, IDK. S25 is so tired of the family get togethers, where everybody is drinking and talking abt who had the worst childhood, happens everytime. H prob went through the most but is a lot quieter abt it in those times then his brother. I pray my boys don't repeat the actions of their father and uncle. Somebody has to take a stand against this generational curse.

Anyway, I guess that's all for now. I've missed you guys.🥰

[Whatlee]

So I heard from my atty today. His atty wants to know what it is that I want. It's almost like he doesn't even care what he has to do, he just wants out.

I'm gonna need a few days to think abt what it is that I want, besides my husband back. It's kind of strange that I was talking to my BFF abt it, when I told her what I was thinking she said before I even said it she had the same # in mind.

Any thoughts on what my response should?

[MamaG]

Hi Whatlee - I'm catching up today on everyone's stories. I see your H his moving towards D. I like what job noted - OW is putting pressure on H to D. H feels obligated to accommodate OW request (there may be an ultimatum thrown in there by OW). When I reflect on my H, it's a life of accommodation that has contributed to him seeking himself and the happiness his true self would bring him. He accommodated the controls/demands from parents and quickly transitioned to accommodate me/our relationship for 30 years. I saw his responses as empathetic and compromising through the years. H saw it as accommodation and not being his true self.

As you said, you are plenty more prepared than you were a year ago for the D. And a D doesn't translate to your R being over. It's merely another attempt at happiness from a life of accommodation. And the silver lining may be that you get to move into a different home situation.

Hang in there. We're here for you.

[job]

Whatlee,

I would think long and hard as to what you want. The one thing that you will not get back right now is your husband. So, I would treat this situation now as a business that has gone bust. Think about what you want. You should be entitled to half of everything. If he is so all fired up for a divorce, he may give you anything and everything you ask for. If you want the house, ask for it. You may be able to negotiate with him to buy him out at a reduced rate. Sit down and look at all of the retirement accounts and any life insurance policies you have on him.

When my xh wanted out desperately, he wanted a very small amount to buy him out of the house and at the courthouse, I also, at the last minute, wanted half of his 40lK account, since I was involved in the deposits. I got the $10,000 I asked for and he didn't blink an eye. I'm not saying take him to the cleaners, but you need to think of what you need to live on and yes, you, as his wife, are entitled to some of what has been made while married.

When they are that desperate, they will just about do anything...but be prepared...he may go back to the ow and discuss it w/her and she may advise him not to give you what you ask for. I would hold out as long as you can because at the end of the day, he just may give you what you asked for.

As I stated, you do not want your h back in the shape he is in right now. Leave him in God's hands.

[DnJ]

Good Morning What

I'm gonna need a few days to think abt what it is that I want, besides my husband back.

I do understand and empathize with wanting one’s spouse back. Unfortunately, that is beyond your direct control.

Remember, two paths here. Healing and business. Be businesslike when dealing with business matters. Treat divorce as a business deal gone sideways.

I suspect your legal default position is half of everything. That is a starting point as almost everything is negotiable. (Your L will know your locale’s specifics as to what can and cannot be negotiated. As an example, in my locale, child support cannot be waived or altered.)

Often the spouse that wants out will be more generous with their negotiating. That generosity doesn’t last forever. It may serve you best to accept H’s (if he indeed does offer) greasing of the wheels.

I received his response to my response filed almost a year ago. H still doesn't want to give me spousal support, after 32yrs of marriage he thinks I deserve nothing.

His atty wants to know what it is that I want. It's almost like he doesn't even care what he has to do, he just wants out.

It looks pretty obvious that H spoke with his attorney and found out that he cannot just up and leave you with nothing. To me, his L is trying to get a less than 50% answer (offer) from you and then latch on to it. Be careful! Have all correspondence go through your lawyer. Remember, business.

You had your lawyer remove her gloves, so let her do her stuff.

Spousal support, half the house, half the accounts, half the pensions, etc. Do not get swindled, you have a lot of life left and need to fund it. Even if you and H get back together.

Consider your options carefully and fully. (For example, you could let H buy your portion of the house, or let H retain some accounts for his portion of the house. Or you could sell the house and spilt the proceeds. Likewise for pensions and such.) Just because H is desperate and in a rush, you need not be. Be rational and logical! Keep emotions out of these financial decisions.

Give H to God. Focus on you and your life.

D

[Whatlee]

If my counselor wouldn't have told me and if in the beginning he wasn't acting so erratically, I would say that he just don't love me anymore and truly doesn't want to be married.
He hangs out and goes to church with his family, plays golf and helps our sons with physical things they may need. Just so cool, calm and collected. He doesn't act like a lot of the others I've read abt. He never reaches out to me and hasn't since Feb......I just don't know if I'm dealing with MLC.....I just don't know.

[grok]

Hi Whatlee,

Lesson from this board...remove "just" from your vocabulary to clarify things.

Don't discount the power of "and."

I got the ILYBINILWY talk. The I want a divorce talk. Yes. I believe that was what she was feeling at that moment. Walls to me and open windows to OM. Of course that is what you will feel.

Is that the sum total of the story? Ha. Just? Ha.

How did our W/H arrive there? perhaps only useful to understand -> What has to happen to NOT be there?

In plowing through books on affairs, male/female dynamics, communications, etc... I find what I felt instinctively. Yes, you can bring back that feeling if both are willing to put in the effort. The WORK. THEY have to be interested in doing that work.

Mine has not. Yours? I don't know. They have to feel (not logic) us in a light that would interest them in trying.

ILYBINILWY
and
EA
and
MLC
and
Empty Nest
and
Internal Happiness issues (I'm not happy because of you)
and
menopause (for my w)
and
Fill in your H's issues

Which parts are of ME and I control? Those I will work on.

g

[Whatlee]

G
So basically what u are saying is by removing "just" that he doesn't love me or want to be married to me anymore???? Not sure what u mean by, "is that the sum total of the story?HA. Just? HA."
Right now I don't think any of them want to work on loving us or being with us.

I think mine went in this order.

Lost job
Depression
New job
Met new friend OW
EA
ILYBINILWY
and
I think MLC....not sure

[DnJ]

Hello What

If my counselor wouldn't have told me and if in the beginning he wasn't acting so erratically, I would say that he just doesn’t love me anymore and truly doesn't want to be married.

He hangs out and goes to church with his family, plays golf and helps our sons with physical things they may need. Just so cool, calm and collected. He doesn't act like a lot of the others I've read abt. He never reaches out to me and hasn't since Feb......I just don't know if I'm dealing with MLC.....I just don't know.

Two major hallmarks of MLC are depression and confusion.

A snippet from your first post:

BD was Sept. 11, 2022, 2 days after his 51st bday. We have been married 31yrs, I've been with H since I was 15yrs old. Weeks after the BD he was so irrational like a chicken with his head cut off, opening up separate acts, looking for second jobs, walking around with 2 cell phones hanging out with a 25yr old co-worker, smoking pot, drinking. October he filed for an online divorce, as if I was gonna sign that...SMH
He would have rage some nights, calm/emotional some nights just all over the place. November 28th I came home from working 16hrs to find an empty apartment, he had moved everything out. I had no place to go as our apartment was tied to his job.

For what it’s worth, I think H is in crisis.

Most MLCers wear a mask. They keep a pretty tight lid on overt outbursts/displays. Especially the low energy wallowing type. Just brooding alone. Depressed.

The cool, calm, and collected is a compartmentalization. A facade. A mask covering what is hidden within. Covering what H is running from. All those demons that come out to play when he lays still in bed in the dark of night.

I would say that he just doesn’t love me anymore and truly doesn't want to be married.

It’s perfectly normal for you to question if H has MLC or not. Most folks around us, have absolutely no idea what MLC truly is, nor how horrible it is. We LBS often do some second guessing along our journey. With a shortage of witnesses to BD and H’s behaviours, and such a long time dim/dark, of course one starts to question.

Something I’ve often seen is binary thinking. Regarding this particular crux and other key points along an LBS path. It need not be “does H just not love me anymore” or “is it MLC”? It’s both.

A huge part of the crisis is H losing himself. His present day self. The time travel stuff, H reliving his younger years he feels he lost out on. The drinking, smoking pot, 2cell phones, etc. All those non-rational emotionally driven running behaviours.

With H acting, behaving, heck being a teenager, his love for you and his marriage gets muted. Buried. Remember, H is running and making decisions basically on emotions not intellect. Couple that with depression and you get mostly negative absolutes about things and events. As an example: H telling you that he will never feel in love with you again.

Negative absolutes are indicative of deep depression. Prognostications that they will never ever (fill in the blank), feel very real and feel like forever while embroiled in depression. Heck, I felt such things too. Eventually (hopefully) depression lifts and those depressive emotions fade and disappear.

Differing viewpoints. H is depressed and feels it is over. And you know better.

However, H cannot hear you. I mean, he really cannot fathom that his topsy turvy world is wrong. You could argue with him until blue in the face and he will not get it. He is lost in his crisis. And he needs to walk his path.

And boy oh boy, MLCers are so slow!

Remember, marathon not a sprint.

Somewhere, deep inside H, is his love for you. Sometimes we even get glimpses of our “old” spouse before the pod-person took them over.

Every MLCer is different, and every crisis is different, because every person is different. There are certainly some common crisis/MLCer traits, yet H is an individual and his crisis will be how it is due to who he is. Most posters bring the wild and crazy situations here more than the mask wearing moments. With questioning, comparing, and such, one can loose sight of the forest for the trees.

Like I said, I think you are dealing with MLC.

However, that being said, you deal with it by not dealing with it. You deal with things you can control. Focusing on you. Moving forward. Letting go. And so on.

I do understand and empathize that H’s current divorce push is stirring stuff up within you. (((Hugs))) Perfectly normal. Allow yourself to settle and you’ll find your center again.

Hang in there girl!

D

[grok]

Whatlee,

Yes. Our spouses have expressed this is how the FEEL...RIGHT NOW. I don't believe they are lying. The hard truth is they do not FEEL “in love” with us right now. The FEEL like they will have a better life not married to us.

Feelings are transient though. They change based on our thoughts and actions. Before you were married he did not FEEL “in love.” Then you did things together and that changed.

The word “just” implies these feelings happened out of nowhere and stand alone….they “just” happened.

They didn’t. Loving feelings come from doing loving things together over time. They disappear by not doing them. Cribbed from Dr. Hartley’s books.

I wasn’t trying to imply a sequence of things, though that can be a useful framework. Heh, this is what happens when I put thoughts down quickly and skip parts of my thoughts. We used to tell our children “NO Justs or Buts” when they talked to us. LOL. I meant that deleting the word “just” will let you see the rest of the story. The various reasons leading up to those feelings.

There may be some MLC going on (reliving lost youth or perceived missed ?).
AND
An OW will block feelings for you until that is closed off.
AND
Job loss -> depression. (Especially for men. Job and providing gives identity and purpose) AND
…

And no, my STBXW has given no indication of wanting to work on anything. Her emotions aimed at OM override everything. To the point of her remaining effectively his secret online mistress.

Your H? I don’t know.

I saved a post, somewhere, from one of the regulars. One of a bunch on what it takes for the WAS to move toward reconciling. They will have to go through the stages of loss for the OW/OM, then the stages of loss for OUR M, then will be able to do the work…IF they choose to at that point. Sobering. And why the timelines are so long.

Which leads to

Act as if:


So many times we see the WAS come screaming back when it's too late.

If you want a chance to fix your marriage, accept that it's dead in its current form.

If you want a chance to fix your marriage, change the man she left.

Figure out who you are, separate from being a husband and a father.

Figure out what you want.

Live your life accordingly.

Believe me, she will notice.

No one comes back to what they left behind.

If they wanted more of that, they wouldn't have left in the first place.

Figure out what you want.

Figure out who you are.

Live your life accordingly, without her factoring into any of that.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2943650#Post2943650

g

[Whatlee]

So today was a struggle day for me, I sent the email to my atty stating my request. It all started last night with my BFF, she is on FB, I am not. I have made it known I don't want to know what he is doing, so therefore FB is not safe for me, considering his sister loves to take pics. Anyway my BFF very sneakily sent me screenshot of a post she saw from yesterday after church, she cropped H out of it to ask me who the guy in the pic was. I answered the question and I guess that opened Pandora box for her to say, "oh yeah H is going to church every Sunday, then they all go out to eat." My response was good that means he heard the sermon from today on relationships. To which she came back with, "oh they're not going to that church." I said, " oh ok, just glad he's going." I was hurt, I was hurt that she stuck the knife in and then twisted it. I was hurt that when my sitch started and still today, everybody in his family couldn't/wouldn't talk to me, not even when he had quadruple by-pass. Yet the SIL is going through the same thing with BIL and they've all surrounded her with support, which I'm glad , I just wish I had been given the same treatment instead of feeling like yesterday's garbage. That's where the struggle day began and continued until tonight. Our church is having revival, and I'm glad I needed my faith tank filled. One of the ladies that I am friends with and is standing, believing with me, she and I were having a long conversation and she told me abt a video I needed to watch and sent me the link(by the way the girl in the video is the daughter of a gospel singer). I just got through watching it and boy oh boy did I see every one of our situations in this video, not only did I see our situations, I also saw hope through prayer. Her mom and husband never stopped praying and standing on the promises of God's word. So when u think your prayers aren't being heard, don't lose faith because he hears them, he sees u, he sees our spouses, he knows where they are and what they're doing, so don't give up, don't stop praying.

[job]

Whatlee,

As one of the rules of the forum, we aren't suppose to include outside links in our postings.

It's ok to stand, but do not stay in one place too long. You do not want to be stuck, i.e., like your h is right now in his rabbit hole.

You have to stay positive and have faith that God has a plan and he will decide what will happen with your h and with you. We are fixers and we want to fix everything and have our lives go back to the way they were. If and when your h wakes up, your marriage will be different. You cannot go back to the way things were. Each day will be a new beginning and with that being said, any and all changes that you have made while he is in La La Land must remain in place.

When he returns, there will be at least 12-18 months of him second guessing himself as to whether he should stay or go again. This part of the crisis will be the hardest because you will want to move on and get over it. He will ask you if you want him to go, especially when he sees you get impatient with how long it is taking for him to recommit 100%. Don't rush the process! It took a while for him to go into crisis and it will take just as long, if not longer, for him to return to earth.

As for friends and family, they mean well, but you have to remember, especially his family....you don't know what he's told them. Blood is thicker than water and they will believe everything he tells them. In most cases, they will side with him for a very long time. You won't be able to talk to them about the situation. Many of your friends will not understand what is going on. If you have a couple of good friends, talk to them. Allow them to be your sounding board. You do not need to justify yourself to anyone. You know what was real and what was memorex in your marriage.

Keep focusing on you. Listen to your lawyer. People mean well, but they do not understand until it happens to them. They are not walking a mile in your shoes.

[Whatlee]

Sorry abt posting the link job, thanks for fixing it.

I guess with his family, I don't want to talk abt the sitch, I would just like a thank you or thumbs up when I tell someone HBD, heck they could even give me the middle finger, IDC, just respond. I guess it hurts my feelings that SIL isn't blood and hasnt been in the family as long as me, yet is being treated that way. She is everything they want to be. She comes from money, and knows how to manage it, has a good education and a great job. I feel like I have never measured up to their expectations, which is crazy. I guess it's that way because they've always wanted what they don't have and they are all abt status, or at least the sister is. Always wanted to have the very best of everything even though she can't afford it. Idk why I'm on this soap box, let me get off.

My BFF she does mean well and doesn't like it that I have been treated this way. She tries to give advice but does it in a negative way and has always been this way. I just have to pick and choose what I listen to and what I dont I sometimes think she is more upset with him then I. I really have to be careful what I share with what people, which is hard cause I'm an open book, I just don't always want your opinion. So, I guess it's just best if I keep my mouth shut....LOL

As far as standing, when i say that i am referring to standing and beliving with me in prayer, I'm standing in general, not for the marriage we had but the marriage we will have.

[MamaG]

Whatlee, hope you're doing well under the circumstances.

For what it's worth, I was a very open book with 4 people in my life after BD. I needed to vent and share and get advice. That number is now down to 1 and sometimes 2. I've learned so much about MLC and I've found that my sharing with people didn't render the results I expected. People don't always know what to say or how to support us. Sometimes, people want our hurt to go away and suggest that we move on. People may look at us (or even tell us) that we're delusional because what we share doesn't make sense. I can't fault them. Instead, I started questioning why I share. What do I gain from sharing?

Now, I have one person that I share near everything with. She has a strong understanding of MLC. Still shakes her head, but really tries to see it as a mental health issue. Still, there are days (including yesterday), that she suggests talking with H. I've told her that I can't control her actions but that I don't think H is ready to hear from her. To date, she's held off.

I say all this because I can hear your pain and disappointment in responses/reactions. Think through why you share/vent and make adjustments, if warranted.

You know this community understands and can give you direction, 2x4s, support, strength. You may not always hear what you want to hear, but you know we understand and can.

Hugs to you.

[grok]

Hi Whatlee,

How have you been the last few weeks?

I heard this song the other day, liked it, and thought of you and faith…and what we choose to stand for.

With Us Still by Colorvault

[Verse 1]
How small we are in the eyes of the world
To the world we look like fools
"Poor, little things" in the eyes of the world
Wastin' our breath on You
Chasin' the wind in the eyes of the world
Wandering, desperate, and blind
"Poor, little things" in the eyes of the world
Lookin' for some kind of, sign
And dumb enough to say it out loud

[Chorus]
You're with us still
You're with us still
Author of life

g

[Whatlee]

It's been a minute......looking for some advice. H, myself and 2 of our boys are on our car insurance. H has been paying his and 1/2 of our youngest part of the insurance. I know H's pay schedule and can also check his bank acct, he has normally already sent me his part, as far as today he hasn't sent it and according to his acct he don't have it to send. I know I need to reach out to him abt it cause I can't afford to pay his part and mine, I mean I can but I will struggle.

How should I approach this?

I'm thinking that he's no longer employed or has changed jobs again. Don't know how to find out if either has happened (for legal purposes)without involving my boys.

Any suggestions?

[Whatlee]

When our sitch first started H quit paying my car payment when I wouldn't do what he wanted, I hope that's not where we are now because I wouldn't agree to his response to my response.

We are still NC, haven't heard a peep from him since Feb. Don't know what he's doing or where and don't really worry abt it. I have given him to God and let it go. Not gonna lie, his brother has completely lost his ind, his job and prob his family, I hope H can see himself in his brother's action and has an AHA moment.

BTW H doesn't know I can access his acct....shhhh..LOL

[DnJ]

Good Morning What

I’d speak with your lawyer. She filed an emergency petition in response to H’s BS proposal of no spousal support. Let her look after this matter.

Did she (and you) get back to H’s lawyer with a counter proposal?

I realize it’s tempting to reach out to H to try to resolve this in your own. However, that will likely exacerbate things, especially if H is purposefully ignoring his fiscal responsibilities. It’s also best to stick to one path and not muddy up your L’s efforts. Let her represent you.

Hope you have a great weekend.

D

[Whatlee]

Well I guess I don't know his pay schedule like I thought I did, forgot he changed jobs and their pay schedule is different. Guess I was being dramatic...lol. H came through with his part of the insurance payment....Thank God
The less I reach out to my L the better, I like her and she has my back, I don't have the money to replace my retainer once it's gone, so unless I have to I don't bother her.

DNJ to answer your question, yes we filed a response to his BS and have heard nothing. Don't know if that's good thng or bad....it is what it is.

[DnJ]

Good Morning What

I’m glad it was just a scheduling thing.

It may serve you to remove yourself from H’s accounts. Letting go and all.

D

[Whatlee]

Hey everybody,
It's been a minute since I've been on here. Nothing new in my world, except just like someone on here said, H has changed jobs and moved again. This makes 4 times that he's moved in 2 yrs and the second job change. Oh well I hope he finds his happiness soon. My atty has filed a motion for trial to try and get me some financial support. We'll see how that turns out. Other then that everything is good with me, I'm living life.

[DnJ]

Good Morning What

Wow, four moves over the past 24 months. H is still trying to find peace it seems.

I’m glad your world is going along smoothly. Drama-free is awesome. We do get addicted, or use to all the drama, hard to let go or not look for it. Looking to peace and smooth sailing is much better.

I’m also glad you are seeking financial support. Let your attorney deal with the drama. Best of luck. Hopefully the trial, if needed (H might settle out of court), would be smooth sailing as well.

Take care,

D

[MamaG]

Stopping in to say hello. I've been thinking about you.

Financial support is long overdue for you. I'm glad you're making the move.

MG

[job]

I am not surprised at the number of moves and job changes. They stay somewhere for a bit and then it is off to another location. They are constantly looking for something that will make them feel better about themselves. Depression has a way of clouding their judgment and they don't see the world in all colors. They see it as dark grey or black when they are in the middle of a depressive episode.

I am very happy to read that you are moving ahead and seeking financial support. Now, you will need to step back a little and allow your attorney to do the heavy lifting for you.

[grok]

Hey Whatlee! How are things?

g

[Whatlee]

Hey grok

Things are busy. I have started school plus still working 2 jobs. Just found out a motion was set for trial in my case with H. That hurts. He and I were talking after 8 months of nothing from him and talked at least twice a week for almost 3 months. Now all of a sudden he's done again and I need to sign the divorce papers. I'm wondering if that's what they talk abt when they talk abt the tunnel and how they will come out test the waters and then get spooked and run back in. I'm sorry I haven't been on here in a while and u asked me how it was going. I shouldn't have unloaded.

How are you and your kids?

[Whatlee]

As I had mentioned in my reply to grok. The H and I had not spoken in 8 months and I was finally ok. One night in October I look at my phone and there was a text from H asking what I was doing. We have talked at least twice a week since then. We've had very good conversations, with him saying how much I had changed and he was working on him and his relationship with God and he wasn't good for me or anybody else right now. If you're working on your relationship with God, wouldn't that also include working on your relationship with your wife and kids???? IDK
I spent Christmas Eve night at my MS apartment and was able to cook Christmas dinner. I invited him to come by and eat, which he did and we had a good visit and continued to have our weekly text. Now this past Sunday night I get a text telling me he's done and he just wants me to sign the papers. If you're working on yourself and your relationship with God, then why rush to divorce???? Why not continue to work on those things and see what happens???
H doesn't answer those type questions, I don't think he understands it either. Just feels the pull to do what he thinks he wants. Almost like it's on his bucket list. I can't say for sure.
I think he got upset with me when he went to the dentist and realized I wasn't paying for his dental insurance any longer, I stopped when I got the 2nd set of papers. I think that may have been a kick in the gut so he's gonna pitch a fit and he's done. I could be wrong. He was raised to "get them, before they get you" he may feel like he got, got. IDK Now he's gonna retaliate. What's good for the goose is not good for the gander with him. He is justified in what he does...SMH
He did enlighten me that since we haven't lived together in 2yrs he doesn't consider us married and has told people we are divorced. Ok, just because you say it doesn't make it Bible.

Can someone explain???? Was he coming out of the tunnel???? Did he get spooked and now we're gonna start this hell all over?????? So much I don't understand and had really stopped trying to understand until he came out of his rabbit hole and sucked me back in. I will say I am good, I have come a long way and my emotions aren't all over the place. I still have moments when the thought of divorce upsets me but that's more abt not wanting to get screwed in the settlement. I still don't want the divorce, if it happens I will be ok. I have done everything I can to fight for this marriage and will continue to fight for this marriage. God knows my heart and I will continue to trust and believe in him.

I have received 2 sets of papers, the 1st in Sept of 2023, the 2nd set in July of 2024 and now in January of 2025 he just wants me to sign the papers. ABSOLUTELY NOT As I typed those dates I see there is irony to them. Sept is his b'day, July is our anniversary and January is when we started dating 35yrs ago. Coincidence???? Maybe, can someone shed some light????

Where does their empathy go? He knows I am living in a camper but doesn't care that I have to find someplace to bathe in the winter because my water freezes or that my bathroom is a tank that I have to empty. Don't get me wrong I am very thankful that I have what I have, it could be so much worse. It's just not someplace you see yourself after being married for 32yrs. Yet he wants me to have empathy when he talks about what I want in the divorce, saying he has no money.

I think that concludes my rant for the night, especially since it's been a minute since I have been on here. Life has been busy, I started school and I am still working 2 jobs so time is limited. Thanks for reading and any feedback.

[grok]

Hey grok
...
I'm sorry I haven't been on here in a while and u asked me how it was going. I shouldn't have unloaded.

Hey yourself!

I'm at work right now, so a short reply.

Yes, you should unload here. Heh, Please come back in the pool, the water is warm here.

That is why I poked your thread.

Rant away. Here. You are in good company here.

When there is time of course! I know that issue well. Even though my three kids are older, they still require a substantial time investment now that XW has removed herself from much of parenting.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning What

H and I had not spoken in 8 months and I was finally ok. One night in October I look at my phone and there was a text from H asking what I was doing. We have talked at least twice a week since then.

You’re still ok! You control you! Do not let H drag you back in.

We've had very good conversations, with him saying how much I had changed and he was working on him and his relationship with God and he wasn't good for me or anybody else right now. If you're working on your relationship with God, wouldn't that also include working on your relationship with your wife and kids???? IDK

Believe nothing he says and only half of what he does.

Now this past Sunday night I get a text telling me he's done and he just wants me to sign the papers. If you're working on yourself and your relationship with God, then why rush to divorce???? Why not continue to work on those things and see what happens???

I have received 2 sets of papers, the 1st in Sept of 2023, the 2nd set in July of 2024 and now in January of 2025 he just wants me to sign the papers. ABSOLUTELY NOT As I typed those dates I see there is irony to them. Sept is his b'day, July is our anniversary and January is when we started dating 35yrs ago. Coincidence???? Maybe, can someone shed some light????

Because he is a mess. His emotions are all over the place. Bomb drop, and those subsequent bombs, give him a sense of power and control. Some relief. Of course, it is temporary. A false sense. His demons still torment him.

Special days stir up feelings within these folk. And lots of them do like to enact some “plan” on these dates.

September Birthday - stirs up feelings of mortality. Reminds him that he is getting older; regardless of how much he runs.

July Anniversary - another year has gone by and he is still unhappy. Mortality, lack of life’s goals, exceptionally difficult to take when one is consumed and reliving their past teenager years.

Started dating 35 years ago - oh definitely a date H would like to strike you on. Remember, H has incorrectly assigned you as the cause of his life’s ills. He is also reliving his younger years. Long ago memories swirl around his head like they were yesterday. He has troubles reconciling his time travelled “present” with the current present. He mostly “is” young H, from back in time when he was hurt and emotionally stunted. A guy who wasn’t married. H does know he is married, yet he doesn’t feel it.

Definitely do not sign anything until you have your lawyer look it over.

Where does their empathy go?

Yes, this is one of the most incredible facets of their transformation. They lack empathy, heck are devoid of empathy for two big reasons. One reason being way more significant than the other.

Firstly, and the smaller “big” reason, time travel. H, the MLcer, the pod person that looks and sounds like H, he is his younger self. He isn’t married, likely hasn’t even met you yet, his trauma might be before age 15. He is that young hurt kids whose parents (or other authority figure) did not protect him. Did not unconditionally love him.

This pod person H, knows his “future” life, knows you, knows he is married, etc; but he doesn’t feel it. He is running from it - the responsibilities, the reminders of age and mortality, etc. He is running from the truth.

The second, and by far bigger reason, his emotions are cranked to eleven and he has no bandwidth for anyone or anything else! Anyone else’s pain or joy or sorrow or elation, he cannot handle. Far too much pressure. H is consumed by his own torment.

My XW threw way our kids. Tossed them aside like used clothes. She turned to plants. Nurturing those. She has somewhere over 500 plants in OM’s house for the past seven years. Plants do not ask questions. Plants are pressure free.

My XW had trouble with our son’s wedding. She is displaying difficulties with the upcoming birth of our twin grandsons. She is having problems with my other son’s upcoming wedding. She is having problems with my Dad’s (her ex FIL’s) death. No do-overs on that.

Time marches on. Life continues while these Van Winkles run around in their past. Reliving, trying various do-overs. They sleep away the present. Special days, poke them to the present moment, and like Rip Van Winkle, years have gone by. Years! So much lost!

Alas, such revelations are more pressure. Most cannot handle it. Their own pain and torment being far too much. They lash out, and they run again. Some, the fortunate one’s, do start to turn and face the real.

Lack of empathy. Along with confusion and depression, is a major hallmark of midlife crisis. The lack/destruction of empathy following the path of most hurt to least. Reconnection and return of empathy follows that same path, only reversed. Least hurt to most hurt. Pets and such first, then friends, family, kids, and finally the most hurt spouse. It takes a long time for a MLCer to regain empathy for their bomb dropped spouse. They have to fix themselves first.

He knows I am living in a camper but doesn't care that I have to find someplace to bathe in the winter because my water freezes or that my bathroom is a tank that I have to empty. Don't get me wrong I am very thankful that I have what I have, it could be so much worse. It's just not someplace you see yourself after being married for 32yrs. Yet he wants me to have empathy when he talks about what I want in the divorce, saying he has no money.

MLCers will and do, lie and use and gaslight and such. They are master manipulators!

I call BS on H’s saying he has no money!

H will pull on your heartstrings, speak of how you need to be empathic to his plight, all the while your water is freezing. Do not fall for his story!

I totally get not wanting to divorce. Heck, I’m a huge proponent of busting divorce. I’m also a huge proponent of:

If you need financial protection or security - Get It!

Married 32 years. You aren’t the one wanting out of the marriage. You shouldn’t be having to deal with frozen water and such. IMHO.

H will say anything. Use the legal system to his advantage. That incredible lack of empathy - it is incredulous, unbelievable, our once loving spouse turns on us (and kids and anyone else who gets in their way). See beyond the false words and the disingenuous behaviours. H lacks of empathy, H is in crisis, H will lie and coerce, H is not on team Whatlee.

I still don't want the divorce, if it happens I will be ok. I have done everything I can to fight for this marriage and will continue to fight for this marriage. God knows my heart and I will continue to trust and believe in him.

Good. I do have faith in His plan.

I’ll paraphrase an interesting parable I ran across soon after my XW’s BD.



I man is within a flood. His whole village is flooding. He has climbed upon the roof of his house and the water is rising, being half ways up the walls.

A boat pulls up and the operator calls out for the man to climb aboard. The man on the roof thanks the operator for his kindness and declines his offer, saying that God will save him.

A while later the water is at the roof’s edge. Another boat with survivors comes along and the operators calls out that he has room for him. The man on the roof again thanks the operator and declines, saying that God will save him.

Time goes by, the water now at the peak of the roof, the man standing with his feet in a foot of water. Another boat arrives, the operator and other rescued folks calling him to get into the boat. The man again, declines the offer and says God will save him.

The man awakens in heaven. He is shocked. He asks God what happened? I had faith you would save me. God says, I sent you three different boats.



Ah, freewill. We decide what is and isn’t a boat. Whether we get in or let it by.

(((Hugs)))

Have a great day What.

D

[Whatlee]

I hear about the MLCer going back to their time of trauma, whether it be physically, mentally or both, I guess that's what is referred to as replay?

Please don't think I sit around and think about my sitch all the time, because I don't. However, I can't help if occasionally a thought about it does cross my mind.

I think about the time he took a job and moved (only abt 5 months ago) to the place our middle son was born, which was a happy time in our lives, we had only been back together from his quarter life crisis for about a year at that point. Is that part of his journey back to his time of trauma? And just recently after having been in communication with him for 3 months, the 35th anniversary of us starting to date comes around and he's back to no communication and wanting a divorce, is that part of his journey back to his time of trauma?

If he's going backwards to that time and acting out at these special moments, could that mean he's on his way out of this tunnel/crisis? Or is it just me looking for the light at the end of that tunnel (no pun intended), hoping it's coming to an end?

[job]

Whatlee,

The entire crisis from pre-crisis to post-crisis is all about him reliving his past, accepting the things that he could not change and moving forward. Replay is where they "act out". They revisit the places from childhood, they become young adults again, i.e., some even act like 2 yr olds at time. They need to relive that time in order to understand why they were either mistreated by parents or someone in authority, they didn't receive affirmation, love and or attention as they should have. They could have been emotionally and/or physically abused or had a sibling that their parents treated far better than they did the crisis person. They must go back and revisit that time and we cannot pull them out of the crisis. Why? Because if we do, they will eventually re-enter the crisis and it will be far worse.

They look at us as authority figures and...in some cases, we become their parents in their eyes. They hate authority and they do not want us to tell them what to do or not do. They do not want us telling them what is wrong with them. They think we are the problem; the marriage is the problem.

Also, in some cases, they will resent their own children because they see that the left behind spouse is treating the children well. They have a lot of anger and resentment and think that the grass is greener on the other side. It takes a lot of time for them to hit that brick wall over and over again before they hit rock bottom and start to rise again.

Listen to what he says, sift through the verbiage and you have a better idea of what is going on in his mind. Do not believe anything he says...only the actions. He will project on to you and others what he is actually doing himself. I know that you have been at this a very long time, so do not take anything he says or does personally. He is on a trip to find himself.

Keep the focus on you and your family. Dig deeper for patience. His trip is a going to be a long one.