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Sunflyer #2945832 06/05/23 04:47 AM
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actively trying to remove me from the house

There is no legal basis for this. Do not move out under any circumstances. Train your mind to be okay with not being welcome in the house anymore.

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Sunflyer #2945842 06/06/23 02:33 PM
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Good Morning SF

Originally Posted by SunFlyer
Originally Posted by DnJ
It’s interesting how W demands you swear on your son’s life that you are telling the truth. Meanwhile, she is betraying the vows she took. Again, a rather common trait among the WAS/WS.

This is, perhaps, one of the most difficult things for me to understand.

W grew up in a close-knit family. I did not. All of her relatives preach the importance of family. Another one of her favorite quotes, uttered multiple times during our marriage, was "I take my marriage vows seriously."

It is easy to say that, of course, before the test comes. I guess I did not figure her to be someone who, when the going got rough, would just keep quiet and then grab the parachute.

Yes, until truly tested one doesn’t know just what they’ll do.

It is pretty standard for the leaving spouse to become the opposite of who they once were. Some are driven by consuming torments from past trauma(s); others reacting/responding/taking action to built up resentment(s), be those perceived or bonafide.

Regardless of the underlying “cause”, there is an emotional component to all this. Be it the absence of feelings towards the LBS; too many other feelings; numb with no feelings; hurt; angry; sad; excited; etc. Usually a hodgepodge of many emotional states.

The LBS cannot fight, nor bring order, nor peace, nor much of anything to their spouse’s emotional state, since we are the one in the divorce crosshairs. Rational logical reasons do not work. No magical words will significantly penetrate or alter their current viewpoint.

Nothing you do matters. And everything you do does.

The LBS can only control themselves. Their thoughts, actions, and reactions. However, they can, and do, exert an influence. Giving time and space, being kind and cordial, maintaining boundaries regarding disrespectful behaviours, and such. Standing, while moving forward. All within your control. All for you. And all providing a positive influence towards busting a divorce.

W needs to work through her feelings. Needs to chip away at the pile of resentment she has. This takes time and the space to do so, all while you don’t (knowingly/purposefully) add to the pile. This is where focus on you is so important. Pretty much anything you do, can (and will) be used as fodder by W. So do for you. Make wanted changes for you. Let W do and feel what she will. Let her walk her path without manipulation. While you walk your’s.

It’s difficult to realize and do - letting the chips falls where they will, gives you the best shot.

Originally Posted by SunFlyer
…her mother is going to supervise her care when I am out of the house. But she can't be here 24/7, obviously, and leave my FIL alone.

The kicker is that based on her timeline, all of this is going to coincide with her actively trying to remove me from the house. (I am expecting to be served before surgery date. We'll see).

Thus, her dream scenario would mean that during surgery #2 in the fall, all her care and most of the care of our younger son while I'm at work all day is going to fall squarely on her family, mostly her parents, who are in their 70s.

Sounds like a good plan?

Obviously a poor plan. However, it is a common/similar plan. Most often they feel things will just magically happen easy peasy. Logistics, bills, housing, kids, etc… They can have some seriously misguided visions of how things will all turn out, and how the process is going to go.

Originally Posted by SunFlyer
I've seen her parents and brother since everything started. If they know all the details, they are candidates for an Oscar. (I'm not ruling it out). I think her mother (who knows something about W's discontent) would be especially devastated.

A sudden dumping of such a care requirement upon her unsuspecting Mom is likely to not go to well. Steer clear of this minefield.


Originally Posted by SunFlyer
Watched my older son go off to his senior prom today. He is a spectacularly good-looking young man.

I won't lie; it wasn't easy. But I held firm.

There are a number of things coming up that are going to take on a bittersweet flavor, especially his graduation and a fiftieth anniversary party for W's parents.

Yes, there are many milestones that have a bittersweet flavour, even without martial strife. Kids growing up and making their way, is a particular one. And a common “cause” of stirring up feelings, and exacerbating martial problems.

Senior prom is a big event in a young lad’s life. Congrats to him. Be proud of the man he is becoming.

Take care.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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DnJ #2945851 06/06/23 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DnJ
It is pretty standard for the leaving spouse to become the opposite of who they once were. Some are driven by consuming torments from past trauma(s); others reacting/responding/taking action to built up resentment(s), be those perceived or bonafide.

One of the (probably multiple) factors exacerbating the situation is what I see as a deep-seated insecurity that I believe W has about her physical appearance. This appears to be lifelong. I am going to make a separate post about this and how it has manifested, and continues to do so, in our lives.

Originally Posted by DnJ
The LBS can only control themselves. Their thoughts, actions, and reactions. However, they can, and do, exert an influence. Giving time and space, being kind and cordial, maintaining boundaries regarding disrespectful behaviours, and such. Standing, while moving forward. All within your control. All for you. And all providing a positive influence towards busting a divorce.

This I am doing. I am identifying things I want to do, or do better, for myself, and behaviors that I can modify. One of my first goals was to pay a little more attention to my own appearance. I typically would wear my hair a little on the longer side, let it grow out somewhat. I decided to change that and see how I would feel wearing it shorter all the time. It wasn't particularly long, but I got a haircut anyway. I've decided that I like it, and coincidentally it was immediately noticed by W, who complimented me on it.

Another thing is to try to do one thing I find fun or engaging each day. This one is actually harder, since it can be hard to put aside the negative feelings and jump into something positive. But I am trying.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Yes, there are many milestones that have a bittersweet flavour, even without martial strife. Kids growing up and making their way, is a particular one. And a common “cause” of stirring up feelings, and exacerbating martial problems.

Senior prom is a big event in a young lad’s life. Congrats to him. Be proud of the man he is becoming.

Take care.

D

Yes, and he's getting academic and athletic honors this week, too. A great time for him.


Me 59 W 47
T 26 M 23
S18, S14
BD May 2023
D filed June 2023
OM1 confirmed: December 2023
OM2 confirmed: October 2023
Sunflyer #2945853 06/06/23 08:27 PM
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So...W's insecurity.

It came up again when she indicated that she wants to end our marriage.

"I don't think you find me attractive any more."

I told her that was not true.

Background: I always had a hard time dating when I was younger. I am basically introverted, plus the consensus among most of the women I met is that I am below average in the looks department. As I have gotten older, I have cared less about this. I am who I am, it's not my problem if someone else doesn't like it.

As explained in my first post, W is a bariatric patient. When we married, she weighed roughly twice what she does now. And let me say that regardless of weight, W is an extremely good-looking woman. From what I gathered, she never really had trouble getting dates and could presumably have had any man she wanted. I was actually somewhat surprised I hit it off with her; I always figured I would end up with someone "plainer" looking.

Over the years, I have heard repeatedly, "I'm fat!" In fact, I heard it again just the other day, even though she has lost almost 50% of her body mass. More recently, the complaint changes to encompass the changes that have come with her weight loss.

"Look at this loose skin. Isn't it terrible?"

"I hate the way my arms look."

Hence her upcoming surgeries, this time to deal with these weight loss effects.

Admittedly, there are some health issues that come with this. Hygiene is more difficult, and she has to wear clothes, especially pants, that are bigger than they would be otherwise, and it's very uncomfortable for her.

I have supported all of her surgical procedures, because I want her to be happy, herself. She doesn't have to do this for me. Extra weight, flabby arms, I don't care. I am hardly Mr. Slim myself. She has always excited me. But we have hardly ever made love with the lights on, at her request. Sometimes I'd leave a light on hoping she would not care. But she usually did.

So now, since she feels I don't compliment her enough, she probably has a head full of, "He can't stand the way I look anymore." (This despite the fact that she looked the exact same the last time we were together sexually, and everything worked out fine).

Obviously, I can't go around telling her how sexy she is at this point. She will think I am sucking up to her. But this is an ongoing issue.


Me 59 W 47
T 26 M 23
S18, S14
BD May 2023
D filed June 2023
OM1 confirmed: December 2023
OM2 confirmed: October 2023
Sunflyer #2945856 06/06/23 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunflyer
"I don't think you find me attractive any more."

I told her that was not true.
That is not emotional validation. What is(was) her emotional state? Was she sad? If you were in her shoes would you be sad if you felt like she didn't find you attractive? Stop acting like a typical guy.

"That must make you sad."
"Does that make you sad?"
etc....



And then, there are so many levels to why she FEELS this way. I am sure you are not giving her the attention she desires.

I still fall back to the art of seduction when dealing with my lady. Read that book cover to cover many times and take notes. Change your behavior accordingly.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Sunflyer #2945857 06/06/23 09:38 PM
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Obviously, I can't go around telling her how sexy she is at this point. She will think I am sucking up to her. But this is an ongoing issue.
Correct. But you can behave in ways that she will receive subconscious messages from you that you find her sexy.

Steve talks about "touch charges".

Non-verbal communication is also very powerful. Body language, tones, inflections, etc.

Next time she is talking with you, really focus on studying what you are attracted to. Do not talk about your attraction with your words, but rather your eyes. Listen to her story without trying to advise, argue etc....what is her emotional state and what you find attractive are your top priorities...then remembering the details of what she said to you...her words to you are her story and you want to know her story...no matter how much you disagree with the words she is saying.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Ready2Change #2945869 06/07/23 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ready2Change
That is not emotional validation.

I know. That exchange happened when she first talked about leaving. And not knowing anything about how to handle such a situation at the time, I engaged the counterproductive behaviors.

Those were quickly shut down as soon as I found out that acting that way doesn't help.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Next time she is talking with you, really focus on studying what you are attracted to. Do not talk about your attraction with your words, but rather your eyes. Listen to her story without trying to advise, argue etc....what is her emotional state and what you find attractive are your top priorities...then remembering the details of what she said to you...her words to you are her story and you want to know her story...no matter how much you disagree with the words she is saying.

I have made it a point to look directly into her eyes when she talks to me, regardless of the subject matter. My eyes do wander elsewhere from time to time. I am hoping this doesn't appear "creepy" to her. Her face is beautiful, but of course I like a lot more than just her face. So my gaze wanders elsewhere. I presume she notices it. I listen intently to what she says, although of course none of what she says is relationship oriented.

She came home last night after being with her brother for work related to their business. I was in the bedroom, and she changed out of her clothes right next to me. I was surprised by that since she has seemed more "demure" since the fallout. Part of me enjoyed that it happened, and part of me felt incredibly frustrated since my mind went straight to things that are now off limits.


Me 59 W 47
T 26 M 23
S18, S14
BD May 2023
D filed June 2023
OM1 confirmed: December 2023
OM2 confirmed: October 2023
Sunflyer #2945875 06/07/23 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunflyer
I was in the bedroom, and she changed out of her clothes right next to me. I was surprised by that since she has seemed more "demure" since the fallout. Part of me enjoyed that it happened, and part of me felt incredibly frustrated since my mind went straight to things that are now off limits.
The first question I was going to ask is : Is your bedroom "more manly" than when you first started posting? Obviously, that is not how you are framing the discussion, so I am bringing you into my frame. Have you watched the youtube clips of Tommy Shelby how he maintains his frame? Maybe the sigma male clips?

Somehow each of us needs to learn new behaviors that increase our attractiveness. It is extremely tricky with someone soo familiar with us.


For me, my bedroom is for sex, sleeping is secondary. At least that is the thought process. If a woman is getting undressed in my bedroom, then it is in preparation for sex.

So in your case, you send her an email: "I believe it would be best if you sleep in the guest bedroom from now on."....if questioned: Not sure how playfully you can say: "After teasing me last night" or "after the stunt you pulled" or whatever communicates that her behavior is unacceptable. There is an art to doing this. She might respond positively. Or negatively....Either way, you are having fun.


Just brainstorming here. Just don't be boring.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Sunflyer #2945888 06/08/23 05:21 PM
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W has outside influences.

She has been in IC for a while. Not with a marriage counselor specifically, although I am sure she is discussing that nowadays. Thus, I suspect said counselor is probably reinforcing her decision to leave the marriage rather than exploring alternatives. (By the way, I caught criticism when she first started going because I didn't inquire as to the specific reasons. Our son had been in IC for a while over different matters, and W said she was just going for her own personal improvement. I left it at that, which ultimately angered her since I didn't probe further).

The potentially scary factor: she is consulting psychics.

This is nothing new for her. Her and mother used to go from time to time. I considered it harmless. She has long known my feelings on this stuff (that it's all [censored]). But she and her mother believe in it completely.

It's really reassuring that the fate of our marriage may hang partially on what these people are telling her. /s


Me 59 W 47
T 26 M 23
S18, S14
BD May 2023
D filed June 2023
OM1 confirmed: December 2023
OM2 confirmed: October 2023
Sunflyer #2945889 06/08/23 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunflyer
My position is that this can be turned around, with counseling, frank discussions, and reorganized priorities.
We all believe that when we arrive here. The problem is we are already passed the point where that may have been an option for our spouse.

After BD, a different approach needs to happen. These are all the DBing tools.

Talking never works. She needs to miss you. She needs to FEEL attraction to you. Most of our behaviors do not increase attraction while married. Women are much more complicated than us men. That is why I push newbies to dig deep into improving their understanding of attraction and seduction. Change as many behaviors as you want. Drop the unattractive traits. Start adding new attractive ways of behaving. The big issue is identify the traits you need to add or subtract.

I behave significantly different with my lady than I did with my X. All this from the wisdom I have gained since the bomb drop.


When(if) you get to piecing, you will be able to get counseling, frank discussions and reorganized priorities into place.

Until you get to piecing, you DB. You embrace this part of the process. You focus on you and your personal growth. You be the best dad. You set her free. You don't attempt to control, but rather influence.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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