I'm Back! (2)

[Terapin]

Link to old thread (I hope)

https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2945451&#Post2945451

[Terapin]

DnJ, I guess $200 isn't bad for the hour, but like you said previously, all I'm really looking for at this point is some information. Not sure how that'll take an hour. lol

[Ready2Change]

DnJ, I guess $200 isn't bad for the hour, but like you said previously, all I'm really looking for at this point is some information. Not sure how that'll take an hour. lol

Have a list of questions ready. The more prepared you are, the more you get for your money.

Definitely visit a couple more lawyers that have a free consult. Compare them to each other. There may be one that is a better fit. You might see a difference in what a paid session gets vs a free.

[Ready2Change]

Question: "I would like to observe you in court with another client, would that be possible?"

[Terapin]

DnJ, I guess $200 isn't bad for the hour, but like you said previously, all I'm really looking for at this point is some information. Not sure how that'll take an hour. lol

Have a list of questions ready. The more prepared you are, the more you get for your money.

Definitely visit a couple more lawyers that have a free consult. Compare them to each other. There may be one that is a better fit. You might see a difference in what a paid session gets vs a free.

Good point about contacting other lawyers.

The other one I did call, the one I really wanted, is the one my W called for a consult. This pisses me off, because she was obviously referred by one of my best friends wife. They were over to hang out with us all evening last saturday, and W called the L a few days later. I'm going to bite my tongue around his W, but I think that's pretty damn rude.

[Terapin]

Have my consultation with an attorney this afternoon. Damn, for some reason I'm nervous about it. Maybe because the reality of the sitch is starting to really hit home?

I foolishly snooped on W's computer last night (I know, I know), and saw she's been searching online for realtors, looking at rental properties, and googling ways to 'pay for divorce'. So I guess despite her being overly nice, talkative, etc, she's still planning her 'escape'. I'm more mad than sad about it though.

Which leads me to another question. Our son is 12, and Sunday is Mother's Day. Typically we'd get her a card, flowers, and some type of ornament type thing. Plus dinner. What should I do now?

[Boat14]

It’s very standard for the WW to be overly nice after dropping the bomb on the LBS. Partly because of guilt and partly out of keeping it amicable for the children. She probably doesn’t hate you she just doesn’t want to be married to you anymore. She wants to have the excitement of a new relationship again. Only time will tell if it lives up to her expectations.

As for Mother’s Day, take your son to the store and have him pick something out for her. Remember Mother’s Day is about the relationship between her and him.

[DnJ]

Good Morning T

For son at 12 years old, my advice is different than for adult kids. Ask son what he’d like to do. A card? Flowers? A plant? A gift? A meal? (For even younger kids, less asking and more just doing with them.)

Then help son get the Mother’s Day acknowledgment/gift. Depending on what it is, you may or may not need to participate.

Just make it about supporting your young son giving his Mom a gift is all.

I understand the nervousness about the lawyer meeting. Getting some a knowns in the current sea of uncertain will help.

D

[Terapin]

Thanks guys. I'll probably just take son to a store and have him pick out a card and maybe some flowers or something.

Boat, yep good point. I don't think she hates me at all. She's just convinced that we'll never be, and never were 'happy'.

Again, I think some of her calculations and maybe expectations regarding an equitable division of debts are going to throw her for a loop.

I'll keep ya posted on what the L says, but what do I do after that? Just continue to BD and play the waiting game till she files? Tell her what my L had to say regarding the stuff she asked me to consider (custody, debt division, etc)? Wait till she brings stuff up again?

[Boat14]

Yes you play the waiting game. Let her come to you with what she wants and then you will have a chance to respond. What is discussed with your lawyer is none of her business.

[Ready2Change]

What do I do after that? Just continue to DB and play the waiting game till she files? Tell her what my L had to say regarding the stuff she asked me to consider (custody, debt division, etc)? Wait till she brings stuff up again?

1) Wait till she brings it up
2) STFU and listen
3) at the end respond with "Thanks for sharing. I need time to process what you have said." or something similar. Do not share your thoughts, plans or ideas at this point.
4) Speak with us and get legal advise.
5) Come up with an action plan.
6) execute the plan.

[Terapin]

So, had the consultation earlier. Then picked son up from school, grilled us some steaks, dropped him off at practice, then rocked out on guitar while W was in her office.

I hated handing over $200, but I think it was well worth it. Kudos to my W though, cause she had basically everything printed out and organized for the lawyer. My biggest concern is my son, and she said 50/50 is almost guaranteed. My other big concern was our debt. Our normal debt (credit cards, etc) would be split, but her $170,000 student loan would go with her. I wouldn't/shouldn't be responsible for any of it. She said since W makes more money, has a higher earning potential, and has more in her 401k than I do, the only one that could receive alimony or child support would be me if I wanted to pursue it (I don't), and I'd be entitled to the difference in our 401k's (about $6000). She also laughed when I told her about W tellign her lawyer about speeding the process along due to a 'lack of physical intimacy'. She said even if she files, the process will go as fast or as slow as I want.

I didn't pay the retainer fee yet, but if W continues with this I'm confident in this lady. She also said W's lawyer is very reasonable and likely wouldn't push to fight for much.

So, the plan is not to mention any of this. But W will ask soon if I've reviewed all that stuff she gave me. Eventually I'm going to have to say 'yes' right? And if/when I tell her the bad news (she'll take her debt, she won't get support, etc), she's either going to go ballistic, or get knocked back into reality. I'm just not sure how much or what I should say, especially with us being amicable for now?

I think that was about it. I guess back to DB'ing!

[Boat14]

My guess is your stbxw has done her due diligence and is aware of what is at stake here. Probably why she mentioned getting a second job.

She makes more money than you. Google hypergamy if you want to know why she wants a divorce.

[Terapin]

My guess is your stbxw has done her due diligence and is aware of what is at stake here. Probably why she mentioned getting a second job.

She makes more money than you. Google hypergamy if you want to know why she wants a divorce.

lol. Maybe you're right. But it's not like she's the breadwinner or anything. She just got a raise a few months ago and now makes a little more than me.

[Ready2Change]

She also laughed when I told her about W telling her lawyer about speeding the process along due to a 'lack of physical intimacy'.

I always try to find some humor and "test" her statement. Maybe insinuate a couple "encounters" a day to slow down the process.

So, the plan is not to mention any of this. But W will ask soon if I've reviewed all that stuff she gave me. Eventually I'm going to have to say 'yes' right?

When she asks, then you say "Yes". Do not reveal your cards. possibly statement: "I am working on my response. I will get it to you when it is complete" if she keeps asking when.

And if/when I tell her the bad news (she'll take her debt, she won't get support, etc), she's either going to go ballistic, or get knocked back into reality. I'm just not sure how much or what I should say, especially with us being amicable for now?

This is all negotiation. I have not read "Never split the difference", but you might want to read it in the very near future.

[DnJ]

Good Morning T

Sounds like your meeting with L was successful. Knowledge is power. I suspect you now feel less anxious regarding possible future events.

This is all business. And when dealing with the business side, stick to business. Keep your emotions out of these major decisions and remain rational and logical. Your lawyer and her advice will be invaluable in this regard, as she is not embroiled in the situation and will have a good business perspective.

My biggest concern is my son, and she said 50/50 is almost guaranteed. My other big concern was our debt. Our normal debt (credit cards, etc) would be split, but her $170,000 student loan would go with her. I wouldn't/shouldn't be responsible for any of it. She said since W makes more money, has a higher earning potential, and has more in her 401k than I do, the only one that could receive alimony or child support would be me if I wanted to pursue it (I don't), and I'd be entitled to the difference in our 401k's (about $6000). She also laughed when I told her about W tellign her lawyer about speeding the process along due to a 'lack of physical intimacy'. She said even if she files, the process will go as fast or as slow as I want.

Your biggest concern is custody. Something to consider, if it comes to it, negotiate not taking the $6000, even forgoing other things (alimony, child support) for a guaranteed 50/50, none of her student loans, and obviously not a contentious and expensive divorce.

Let W do the heavy lifting here. If/when she asks if you’ve read her paperwork, you can answer yes. If she wants to know where you stand, you can tell her you don’t want a divorce, and yet you won’t stand in her way. If she keeps pushing, tell her to provide a written proposal and you will look it over. Do not show your cards. You let her make the moves and initiate things. You just respond - after speaking with lawyer and such.

Such is the business side of this journey.

D

[Terapin]

Good Morning T

Sounds like your meeting with L was successful. Knowledge is power. I suspect you now feel less anxious regarding possible future events.

This is all business. And when dealing with the business side, stick to business. Keep your emotions out of these major decisions and remain rational and logical. Your lawyer and her advice will be invaluable in this regard, as she is not embroiled in the situation and will have a good business perspective.

My biggest concern is my son, and she said 50/50 is almost guaranteed. My other big concern was our debt. Our normal debt (credit cards, etc) would be split, but her $170,000 student loan would go with her. I wouldn't/shouldn't be responsible for any of it. She said since W makes more money, has a higher earning potential, and has more in her 401k than I do, the only one that could receive alimony or child support would be me if I wanted to pursue it (I don't), and I'd be entitled to the difference in our 401k's (about $6000). She also laughed when I told her about W tellign her lawyer about speeding the process along due to a 'lack of physical intimacy'. She said even if she files, the process will go as fast or as slow as I want.

Your biggest concern is custody. Something to consider, if it comes to it, negotiate not taking the $6000, even forgoing other things (alimony, child support) for a guaranteed 50/50, none of her student loans, and obviously not a contentious and expensive divorce.

Let W do the heavy lifting here. If/when she asks if you’ve read her paperwork, you can answer yes. If she wants to know where you stand, you can tell her you don’t want a divorce, and yet you won’t stand in her way. If she keeps pushing, tell her to provide a written proposal and you will look it over. Do not show your cards. You let her make the moves and initiate things. You just respond - after speaking with lawyer and such.

Such is the business side of this journey.

D

Thanks D. Yes, I feel a lot better today than I did yesterday. It's going to cost money, it's going to suck, but at least I shouldn't be financially devastated over this.

L said it would be crazy if I didn't get 50/50.

That's good advice on when she asks about my stance, telling her to give me a proposal. Again though, I don't want to come across as a jerk, so if she keeps pressing eventually I'm going to have to talk about some of those things.

These next few days will suck though. Tonight son has a school function that both of us will attend, and tomorrow he has a game which we'll go to. I mean, I'm sure it'll be fine, but tough to GAL, DB, etc when we have to be together for these things.

I hate to say this, and maybe it's just a passing phase, but I'm feeling a little more 'detached' than I've been since this started. It would still be my goal to work on the M. But either way I'll be fine. We've been together almost 20 years. I by no means have been husband of the year. But in reality, despite a lot of very good qualities she has, she's kinda treated me like [censored] since we've met.

[Ready2Change]

if it comes to it, negotiate not taking the $6000, even forgoing other things (alimony, child support) for a guaranteed 50/50, none of her student loans, and obviously not a contentious and expensive divorce.

One quote I remember from my Lawyer. "It is cheaper to pay her."

$6000 = $3000/lawyer to argue...lets say that each lawyer gets $300/hour. that is 10 hours each.

Want the lawyers to get the money or your kids mother? Use logic during this. Keep your emotions controlled.

[Ready2Change]

These next few days will suck though.

Learn to reframe this. Don't let her effect your state. The next few days are going to be exciting.

I by no means have been husband of the year. But in reality, despite a lot of very good qualities she has, she's kinda treated me like [censored] since we've met.

The good thing is you can now address the disrespect. Lots of good learning out there. Do a you tube search for "gain respect from women"....Jordan Peterson is always a good listen and I see several other guys that have their perspective on this.

[Terapin]

Thanks R2C. I love his sporting events. W (if she even goes) and I kinda mingle with other people. But this school function tonight will be sitting in an auditorium together for a few hours. Ugh.

Throughout our relationship, especially pre-marriage, the dynamic was usually me pursuing her, my wants and needs taking a back seat to hers, etc. Again, not that I was a pushover wimp, but at it's core I was a 'nice guy'. Most things have usually been on her terms. We wouldn't have sex, and she'd say it was because of x. I'd do more of x, sex wouldn't improve, and she'd say it's now because of y. I'd do y, etc, etc, etc.

Maybe if/when this is all over I'll write or tell her this stuff. When we were in MC years ago, the focus was on her at first. When we started to get into my wants, needs, etc, covid hit and we never went back.

[Ready2Change]

Again, not that I was a pushover wimp, but at it's core I was a 'nice guy'. Most things have usually been on her terms. We wouldn't have sex, and she'd say it was because of x. I'd do more of x, sex wouldn't improve, and she'd say it's now because of y. I'd do y, etc, etc, etc. .

Yup...been there done that.

With my lady, the dynamics are a 180 from the way I was with my X. Learning skills to turn my lady on, controlling my behavior to be more attractive and seductive makes the interactions so much better.

[Terapin]

Again, not that I was a pushover wimp, but at it's core I was a 'nice guy'. Most things have usually been on her terms. We wouldn't have sex, and she'd say it was because of x. I'd do more of x, sex wouldn't improve, and she'd say it's now because of y. I'd do y, etc, etc, etc. .

Yup...been there done that.

With my lady, the dynamics are a 180 from the way I was with my X. Learning skills to turn my lady on, controlling my behavior to be more attractive and seductive makes the interactions so much better.

I used to be pretty good at being 'that guy'. And I still seem to be to most people, except my W. lol. I used to practice all of the 'experts' advice (being alpha, no more nice guy, cocky-funny, etc). Any reading you'd recommend?

[Ready2Change]

I used to be pretty good at being 'that guy'. And I still seem to be to most people, except my W. lol. I used to practice all of the 'experts' advice (being alpha, no more nice guy, cocky-funny, etc). Any reading you'd recommend?

Check out the ones listed as MEN and also attraction:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094

[Terapin]

I used to be pretty good at being 'that guy'. And I still seem to be to most people, except my W. lol. I used to practice all of the 'experts' advice (being alpha, no more nice guy, cocky-funny, etc). Any reading you'd recommend?

Check out the ones listed as MEN and also attraction:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094

Thanks. Yep, I have 'The Game' by Neil Straus. When W and I first started dating, we were on and off again for a few years. I finally said 'the hell with it' when we were broken up, and really got into that stufrf (Mystery, David Deangelo, etc). I was amazed how well it worked, and eventually W and I got back together.

[Ready2Change]

I was amazed how well it worked, and eventually W and I got back together.

Did some of the behaviors stick?

[Terapin]

I was amazed how well it worked, and eventually W and I got back together.

Did some of the behaviors stick?

I think so, but most of that stuff is designed to attract women, starting from a clean slate.

[Terapin]

So, spent all day yesterday outside smoking ribs. In the evening 5 of our mutual friends came over, as well as my parents. Again, nobody can believe there are any issues with us. We 'seem' perfectly happy (talking, goofing around, being nice, etc). Yet I know she's still moving forward with D planning. I just don't get it.

[Ready2Change]

We 'seem' perfectly happy (talking, goofing around, being nice, etc). Yet I know she's still moving forward with D planning. I just don't get it.

You have been friend zoned.

I think so, but most of that stuff is designed to attract women, starting from a clean slate.

It has been awhile, but I took it as getting out of your comfort norm and making that your new normal state of being.

[Terapin]

We 'seem' perfectly happy (talking, goofing around, being nice, etc). Yet I know she's still moving forward with D planning. I just don't get it.

You have been friend zoned.

I think so, but most of that stuff is designed to attract women, starting from a clean slate.

It has been awhile, but I took it as getting out of your comfort norm and making that your new normal state of being.

Friend zoned? IDK, maybe. It's funny though cause during BD, she actually said something along the lines of 'we have nothing in common. If we weren't married would we even be friends or talk to each other?' I do however think I"m being too friendly/available to her.

You're right. Most of that stuff boiled down to just being confident.

I got W a card, small cake, and a flower for Mother's Day. She said 'thanks'. I took our son to my parents for a few hours yesterday, and W went to hers. She texted and told me son and I could come over there if we want (we didn't). On her way home she texted saying she's ordering chinese take out, and asked if i wanted anything (I didn't). I'm sure at some point this week she'll want to have another 'talk'.

[Ready2Change]

Friend zoned? IDK, maybe.

Friend zoned = not sexually attracted.

It's funny though cause during BD, she actually said something along the lines of 'we have nothing in common. If we weren't married would we even be friends or talk to each other?'

That is the point of relationships...enjoying the differences. My lady does not fish, but she enjoys watching me fish.....I enjoy watching her sing Karaoke...but would not go if she wasn't into it.

I do however think I"m being too friendly/available to her.

Most of us are. There are ways to be friendly that are not needy. There are so many ways to increase our behavior to be more attractive. Pulling away is one of them. There is an art to it. I enjoy the seduction side of relationships. From my ladies responses, I believe she does as well.

I'm sure at some point this week she'll want to have another 'talk'.

So I really like this statement:

What do you do when you get married? You take someone who’s just as useless and horrible as you are, and then you shackle yourself to them. And then you say, we’re not running away no matter what happens…If you can run away, you can’t tell each other the truth…If you don’t have someone around that can’t run away, then you can’t tell them the truth. If you can leave, then you don’t have to tell each other the truth. It’s as simple as that, because you can just leave. And then you don’t have anyone to tell the truth to.

So if you do have another talk, use that statement as a guidline for YOUR LISTENING SKILLS. Do not preach it. Do not use it to keep her tied to you. Be the safe person she can talk to, even if you completely disagree. Listen to understand her. Her story. She is a fascinating person. This is a rare skill.

As you do this, take note of all your feelings you have. Process them later. Example:What made you feel angry? Most likely a growth opportunity.

[Terapin]

Friend zoned? IDK, maybe.

Friend zoned = not sexually attracted.

It's funny though cause during BD, she actually said something along the lines of 'we have nothing in common. If we weren't married would we even be friends or talk to each other?'

That is the point of relationships...enjoying the differences. My lady does not fish, but she enjoys watching me fish.....I enjoy watching her sing Karaoke...but would not go if she wasn't into it.

I do however think I"m being too friendly/available to her.

Most of us are. There are ways to be friendly that are not needy. There are so many ways to increase our behavior to be more attractive. Pulling away is one of them. There is an art to it. I enjoy the seduction side of relationships. From my ladies responses, I believe she does as well.

I'm sure at some point this week she'll want to have another 'talk'.

So I really like this statement:

What do you do when you get married? You take someone who’s just as useless and horrible as you are, and then you shackle yourself to them. And then you say, we’re not running away no matter what happens…If you can run away, you can’t tell each other the truth…If you don’t have someone around that can’t run away, then you can’t tell them the truth. If you can leave, then you don’t have to tell each other the truth. It’s as simple as that, because you can just leave. And then you don’t have anyone to tell the truth to.

So if you do have another talk, use that statement as a guidline for YOUR LISTENING SKILLS. Do not preach it. Do not use it to keep her tied to you. Be the safe person she can talk to, even if you completely disagree. Listen to understand her. Her story. She is a fascinating person. This is a rare skill.

As you do this, take note of all your feelings you have. Process them later. Example:What made you feel angry? Most likely a growth opportunity.

If she mentions anything about being friends again, I'm going to reply with Nick Nolte's quote in 48 Hours 'we ain't brothers, we ain't partners, and we ain't friends'. lol

Like I said last week, I can feel myself detaching more every day. Not that I don't want to save the M, but the thought of D is no longer 'scary'. I've spent 20 years trying to meet all of her needs, while she rarely puts any effort into meeting even one of mine. I'm too old for that crap.

[Terapin]

So W has been selling all kinds of stuff on Ebay (her clothes, shoes, etc). I'm assuming it's to come up with the money for a retainer fee. I guess I gotta do the same. I don't have much to sell though. Maybe blood or sperm. lol

[Terapin]

So, W and I just had another 'talk'. As far as reconcilliation goes, the M is over. She asked me if I reviewed that stuff, and I told her I did. I again said none of this is my choice or decision, but I'll support her. She again asked why I would even want to stay married. Probably a mistake on my part, but I told her that in addition to believing D shoudl be the last resort, the last few weeks have been nice, and it didn't seem like we had to work that hard at it. She said 'I've been nice and happy because I feel like a huge weight is off my back now. I figured you felt the same'. Then she went on to say some stuff about 'growing apart, not in love anymore, etc'.

The good news is, at least initially, W and I seem to agree on most things (selling the house, dividing debts, 50/50 custody). No spousal or child support, and we each take our student loan debts. I told her I'd consider giving her my vehicle in exchange for some household assets.

She asked if I would help pay her lawyer fees, as well as the filing fee. I just laughed.

Oh well, it's been a long strange trip. Mentally I'm feeling ok. Still can't believe it's ending, yet in some ways I always expected it.

Thanks for all the help and advice folks. I appreciate it more than you know.

[Terapin]

Oh yeah, she also said something like 'sorry if being nice and having fun with our friends gave you false hope or anything, but a few nights of hanging out doesn't erase years of issues'. I should have told her to F off

[Kind18]

Well done Terapin. You sound strong and calm.

Wanting divorce is not why any of us arrive at this site. But sometimes, it gives closure to have it done.

Your different interpretation of why things were better last few weeks is interesting. A LBS will see better interactions and return to how it used to be (fun, happiness, less arguing) as a sign things are getting better. But she was happier because she convinced herself you were on board with divorce and so the pressure was off her.

The more I study this and read, the more I realise this is a constant theme. The rubbish behaviour of waywards/walkaways is because they carry guilt over the their behaviour and breaking vows.

It’s why you should never try to interpret what they are thinking or doing. It makes zero sense and is a ticket to the crazy house. All that a walkaway/wayward wants is for people to tell them what they’re doing is okay. If they don’t get that - they respond with anger, bullying, threats and even violence. It’s a sad insight into the human mind.

Keep your chin up. Remember that you’ve passed the worst of it. Life will only get better from here.

One day, you too will realise that actually deserve someone who values and loves you as much as you do them.

[Terapin]

Well done Terapin. You sound strong and calm.

Wanting divorce is not why any of us arrive at this site. But sometimes, it gives closure to have it done.

Your different interpretation of why things were better last few weeks is interesting. A LBS will see better interactions and return to how it used to be (fun, happiness, less arguing) as a sign things are getting better. But she was happier because she convinced herself you were on board with divorce and so the pressure was off her.

The more I study this and read, the more I realise this is a constant theme. The rubbish behaviour of waywards/walkaways is because they carry guilt over the their behaviour and breaking vows.

It’s why you should never try to interpret what they are thinking or doing. It makes zero sense and is a ticket to the crazy house. All that a walkaway/wayward wants is for people to tell them what they’re doing is okay. If they don’t get that - they respond with anger, bullying, threats and even violence. It’s a sad insight into the human mind.

Keep your chin up. Remember that you’ve passed the worst of it. Life will only get better from here.

One day, you too will realise that actually deserve someone who values and loves you as much as you do them.

Thanks Kind. Yeah I guess that's how I'm feeling. Life will get better. I can't stand the thought of turning our sons life upside down, and for that reason alone I'll never fully forgive my STBX for that.

Yeah, that 'theme' is interesting. I guess acting 'as if' wasn't the best move, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway in the long run.

She wasn't fazed one bit about me speaking to a L, and she kept saying stuff like 'i'm not going to fight over a TV, couch, etc. She's said she fully expects to end up in a small apartment or something. So, here's a woman in her mid 40s, that is giving up half of her son, her husband, a quarter million dollar home, safety, security, friends, etc, because she's 'not happy'. I've stuck w/ her through a ton of issues (eating disorder, depression, alcoholism, etc). Never cheated on her, never physically abused her. She still swears there's 'nobody else', but who cares.

So what now? I don't want things to be cold and mean around here. I think from now on, it's just all business. I'll be nice and cordial, but that's it.

[SteveLW]

Now? Keep on DBing. your divorce is still in the 'all talk' phase. Many never make it out of that phase.

I just read about Art Carney. The actor. His wife divorced him in 1965. He was devastated. He resorted to drugs and alcohol. He even remarried. In the 70s he finally got on with his life. He won an Oscar. And then in 1980, he and his first wife remarried and were married until his death.

There is ALWAYS hope.

Keep DBing.

[Kind18]

Agree with Steve. DBing doesn’t stop.

DBing is actually about identifying your flaws, it’s about personal development, learning to set boundaries, regaining strength/confidence - and learning to love yourself. You learn to place your happiness in how YOU feel about yourself, not on whether someone else thinks you are worth it.

Stopping self improvement and just meandering along until the next relationship happens is a recipe for disaster - either you’ll settle for someone who isn’t amazing (because you haven’t found self-happiness and need someone else to feel loved), or you’ll find someone … but you’ll make the same mistakes the second time around.

Also, until that piece of paper is in your hand, you aren’t divorced.

Now that you seem to have accepted it - why don’t you do something for you? You don’t have to sink money, time and emotional energy into trying to save it any more. Why not spend that money, time and emotional energy on something amazing?

How about buying something you’ve always wanted? What about a holiday? What about skydiving? Fix up that old car you have in a garage. Buy a motorbike. Buy a mountain bike. Go and do a yoga/meditation course! Join a gym and start a 90 day weight loss program.

We only get 80 laps around the sun. Now that you accept this marriage is probably done, time to start living 💪

[Ready2Change]

So, W and I just had another 'talk'....She again asked why I would even want to stay married. Probably a mistake on my part, but I told her that in addition to believing D should be the last resort, the last few weeks have been nice, and it didn't seem like we had to work that hard at it. She said 'I've been nice and happy because I feel like a huge weight is off my back now. I figured you felt the same'. Then she went on to say some stuff about 'growing apart, not in love anymore, etc'.

It is a loaded question. No matter what your answer is, it is a mistake to have R talks. The bigger mistake is to give your POV.

The good news is, at least initially, W and I seem to agree on most things (selling the house, dividing debts, 50/50 custody). No spousal or child support, and we each take our student loan debts. I told her I'd consider giving her my vehicle in exchange for some household assets.

She asked if I would help pay her lawyer fees, as well as the filing fee. I just laughed.

You can suggest that you both drop the lawyers and fill out the DYI divorce paperwork. Do some online research BEFORE discussing this with her.

I just checked and my state has a $230 filing fee, which can be waved if income is below a certain level.

[Ready2Change]

I can't stand the thought of turning our sons life upside down

That is why you DB. Can't control her, but you can focus on being the best dad on the planet. You will most likely have more quality time with him.

So, here's a woman in her mid 40s, that is giving up half of her son, her husband, a quarter million dollar home, safety, security, friends, etc, because she's 'not happy'. I've stuck w/ her through a ton of issues (eating disorder, depression, alcoholism, etc).

She will find out that she is still 'not happy' when she is away from you. You are the one that will go through life changing personal growth.

[Ready2Change]

So what now? I don't want things to be cold and mean around here. I think from now on, it's just all business. I'll be nice and cordial, but that's it.

I believe you should have an epiphany. You are now excited and looking forward to your freedom. Do whatever you want. Her input no longer matters to you, unless it is parenting related.

[Terapin]

Thanks guys.

Steve, like I said, a part of me will never forgive her for this (actually twice in 5 years). When I look at this without any emotion, what I see is a selfish woman who rarely wants sex, doesn't cook, drinks every night, has a ton of debt, and has put me through the ringer for 20 straight years. Emotionally I want to save the M for the sake of the family, and I do love her. But rationally, Art Carney can have her too.

Kind, there is no money for anything like that right now. lol. But believe me, when this is settled and I'm back on my feet, there are things I've wanted for years that I could never get since it was more important for W to buy her 52nd pair of shoes.

R2C, that's one thing I havent' researched; a DIY D. One of the weirdest things about all of this is, she worked for a L for like 10 years as a legal secretary. The L is still practicing, and would probably cut her a big break. Yet she's using someone else.

R2C, she thought I did have an epiphany! The same epiphany that she had. She will probably back off of the 'niceness' now, and guarantee she'll expect me to. But I'm going to keep the same demeanor, and just go about my business like I've been.

[Terapin]

W left her ipad on the table and this morning i logged in. Did a quick search history and it seems she was looking at 'how to win full custody' websites last night. Great. Guess it's time to prepare for war and drop the carefree 'as if' attitude.

[Dats000]

Kind, there is no money for anything like that right now. lol. But believe me, when this is settled and I'm back on my feet, there are things I've wanted for years that I could never get since it was more important for W to buy her 52nd pair of shoes.

Been separated, different houses, taking on our own financial expenses for a few months. So amazing how much money W spent on clothes hair etc.. She did that as much as she wanted. I didn’t spend much on me. Now it is time.

[DnJ]

Hello T

W left her ipad on the table and this morning i logged in. Did a quick search history and it seems she was looking at 'how to win full custody' websites last night. Guess it's time to prepare for war and drop the carefree 'as if' attitude.

You should definitely prepare. This is a business deal gone sideways and you should be working towards the best fair deal for you.

Part of that effort is your attitude. No need to stoop and become adversarial. Such, will likely not get you further towards your wanted goal / outcome / decisions.

Keep emotions out of this. Keep ego out of this. No need to turn it in to a war, when some cordial negotiating could/will achieve the desired results.

W and I seem to agree on most things (selling the house, dividing debts, 50/50 custody). No spousal or child support, and we each take our student loan debts.

Perhaps, W has reconsidered her custody position/offer. Or perhaps she only temporarily felt that way. Or perhaps she was surfing to see how not lose her half. And so on.

Information gained by snooping is usually coloured by one’s emotions. It is difficult to know the why based upon the few data points one uncovers. And snooping stirs up one’s own emotions which has the risk of prompting action or a change in direction based on the limited inference rather than follow the established facts and rational path one previously decided upon. If things change, if new information truly comes to light, then adjust.

I told her I'd consider giving her my vehicle in exchange for some household assets.

She asked if I would help pay her lawyer fees, as well as the filing fee. I just laughed.

Many times W has expressed concern and fear over her lawyer fees and associated costs of divorce. Her suggestions of helping her with such costs, is an area of negotiation.

Remove your ego from this equation. Consider what assets you are wishing for and those you are more willing to let go. A few thousand dollars invested in W’s legal bills might garner you much more in things you value.

That was a missed opportunity to ask what she was willing to give up for her to have no legal bill. Her answer might surprise you. Folks exiting relationships do place value upon some strange things. Some even so far as their freedom and no responsibilities over shared custody. I’m not suggesting W is there, my point is you are surmising her list of wants based upon the person you knew. It takes a bit of finesse to discover what she values/wants right now.

You’ve spoken to a lawyer. You know the default position in all this. You have opportunity to adjust that default, to give and take between the two of you. So far, W hasn’t sounded like she is looking for war. Don’t push her into one. That’s usually more a lose/lose outcome.

D

[Terapin]

Hello T

W left her ipad on the table and this morning i logged in. Did a quick search history and it seems she was looking at 'how to win full custody' websites last night. Guess it's time to prepare for war and drop the carefree 'as if' attitude.

You should definitely prepare. This is a business deal gone sideways and you should be working towards the best fair deal for you.

Part of that effort is your attitude. No need to stoop and become adversarial. Such, will likely not get you further towards your wanted goal / outcome / decisions.

Keep emotions out of this. Keep ego out of this. No need to turn it in to a war, when some cordial negotiating could/will achieve the desired results.

W and I seem to agree on most things (selling the house, dividing debts, 50/50 custody). No spousal or child support, and we each take our student loan debts.

Perhaps, W has reconsidered her custody position/offer. Or perhaps she only temporarily felt that way. Or perhaps she was surfing to see how not lose her half. And so on.

Information gained by snooping is usually coloured by one’s emotions. It is difficult to know the why based upon the few data points one uncovers. And snooping stirs up one’s own emotions which has the risk of prompting action or a change in direction based on the limited inference rather than follow the established facts and rational path one previously decided upon. If things change, if new information truly comes to light, then adjust.

I told her I'd consider giving her my vehicle in exchange for some household assets.

She asked if I would help pay her lawyer fees, as well as the filing fee. I just laughed.

Many times W has expressed concern and fear over her lawyer fees and associated costs of divorce. Her suggestions of helping her with such costs, is an area of negotiation.

Remove your ego from this equation. Consider what assets you are wishing for and those you are more willing to let go. A few thousand dollars invested in W’s legal bills might garner you much more in things you value.

That was a missed opportunity to ask what she was willing to give up for her to have no legal bill. Her answer might surprise you. Folks exiting relationships do place value upon some strange things. Some even so far as their freedom and no responsibilities over shared custody. I’m not suggesting W is there, my point is you are surmising her list of wants based upon the person you knew. It takes a bit of finesse to discover what she values/wants right now.

You’ve spoken to a lawyer. You know the default position in all this. You have opportunity to adjust that default, to give and take between the two of you. So far, W hasn’t sounded like she is looking for war. Don’t push her into one. That’s usually more a lose/lose outcome.

D

Thanks. That is really good advice. I feel like I"m just 'counter punching' right now. Other forums would say to go on the attack. I don't know who's right. But, at least to me, she's still cordial and amicable. That could all be a complete act, but I'm not sure what she would even be capable of fighting for, or if she'd want to. She can't even afford a retainer fee (not that I really can either), let alone to dig in and pay for a long custody battle.

But one thing is true, the woman I married and loved is gone. I can't think of her that way anymore. Not that I have to think of her as the enemy, but she's not my W, friend, buddy, etc anymore. I was already starting to feel detached. Each day that grows more and more. I don't think she's wayward, having an affair, etc though. I think she's just completely self centered and 'done' with the M. I hate even wasting any time an energy on this. From the beginning i should have just said 'good riddance''

[Ready2Change]

W left her ipad on the table and this morning i logged in. Did a quick search history and it seems she was looking at 'how to win full custody' websites last night. Great. Guess it's time to prepare for war and drop the carefree 'as if' attitude.

I was involved in a highly contested custody divorce. We ended up 50/50. More money was spent on legal fees than she received from me in child support. If she would have invested that money, she would have ended up with over 4X the amount she received in child support.

I was parenting more than her before bomb drop. Crazy how twisted they become.

Prepare for the worse and pray for the best. We never really know who we are dealing with. From this point forward, don't be alone with her. First one to call the cops typically stays in the house and the other is legally removed.

After I realized I could not trust anything she said, I switched to email as the primary mode of communication. Long paper trail of normal parenting discussions.

Keep your side of the street clean. Do not give her any ammunition. No drinking etc.

I took a parenting class on top of all the reading I was doing.

We had a child therapist working with the kids. He was a great asset.

For now STFU and be very observant of her words and her behavior.

Read my tagline. Best advise I received while going through this.

I wish you well.

[Terapin]

W left her ipad on the table and this morning i logged in. Did a quick search history and it seems she was looking at 'how to win full custody' websites last night. Great. Guess it's time to prepare for war and drop the carefree 'as if' attitude.

I was involved in a highly contested custody divorce. We ended up 50/50. More money was spent on legal fees than she received from me in child support. If she would have invested that money, she would have ended up with over 4X the amount she received in child support.

I was parenting more than her before bomb drop. Crazy how twisted they become.

Prepare for the worse and pray for the best. We never really know who we are dealing with. From this point forward, don't be alone with her. First one to call the cops typically stays in the house and the other is legally removed.

After I realized I could not trust anything she said, I switched to email as the primary mode of communication. Long paper trail of normal parenting discussions.

Keep your side of the street clean. Do not give her any ammunition. No drinking etc.

I took a parenting class on top of all the reading I was doing.

We had a child therapist working with the kids. He was a great asset.

For now STFU and be very observant of her words and her behavior.

Read my tagline. Best advise I received while going through this.

I wish you well.

Yeah it's hard to not be alone with her when we're cohabitating. I did buy a digital recorder that I plan to have on me at all times. I wouldn't think she'd stoop to that level, but you never know.

When you got 50/50, was/is it exactly 50/50? I've read stories that guys have got that decision, but it was still more like 80/20

I'm out of town for work yesterday and today. She sent a picture of our S last night and I just replied 'nice'. I called and talked to him last night, but no calls or texts to W, which is the first time ever that I didn't call her.

[SteveLW]

Steve, like I said, a part of me will never forgive her for this (actually twice in 5 years). When I look at this without any emotion, what I see is a selfish woman who rarely wants sex, doesn't cook, drinks every night, has a ton of debt, and has put me through the ringer for 20 straight years. Emotionally I want to save the M for the sake of the family, and I do love her. But rationally, Art Carney can have her too.

You need to work through this duplicity in counseling. You can't here saying you didn't want to see the marriage (or at least that was what you thought you "wanted"). But everytime you found evidence that she was planning on D you seemed disappointed. We respond to your disappointment and then you claim you really don't want to save it.

I get that you're confused but the advice you receive can only be about what you are currently posting. Heck you even said to her that since things had been better you thought things were going to work out!

If you're confused, and we're confused, I can guarantee you that so it's she!

Let's recap:

T comes here talking and BD #2.
T doesn't know if he wants to save them marriage.
T's wife starts being nice.
T seems to be happy about things being better.
T keeps getting disappointed when he finds evidence that his wife is still contemplating D.
T's W finally sits him down to reiterate that her plan is to D.
T comes here deflated.
T gets advice that things are really no different than before the sit down.
T insists that he still isn't sure if he wants to save the marriage.

Look at the first line. Look at the list line. Ask them lines in between are meaningless! You are in the same position now as you were when you first came back to the board.

We've seen several situations like this. Where the LBS thinks that a sit down talk is the WAS moving the D forward. Reverb though it's still all talk and inaction on them WAS's part.

My advice. Work through what you really want in IC. If D is what your want then go make that happen. If you want to try to save it, DB your butt off. But stop being a casual observer of your own life, be an active participant. Because my fear is that in a few more weeks we'll be having the same discussion and exchange.

Tldr; You're stuck in place.

[DnJ]

Good Morning T

I feel like I"m just 'counter punching' right now. Other forums would say to go on the attack. I don't know who's right.

Fighting begets fighting.

One should certainly defend themselves, and be prepared to go toe to toe if things get dragged there. However, leading with such tactics closes several doors to other more beneficial possibilities. One’s spouse may close such possibilities down on their own, even drag things into the adversarial realm. Remain calm, just respond, let them lead, let them own their divorce.

How you handle and deal with the business side of this does influence your emotional/healing path. What you do, the actions you take, how you conduct yourself, all become part of your immutable past. Stick to the high road; even when, especially when!, you feel otherwise. You have to live with your decisions for a long long time.

Do realize, it’s “how you conduct yourself”. You are not a doormat, and you are still focused upon the best outcome for self and son. It’s just how you go about it is all.

But one thing is true, the woman I married and loved is gone.

At the moment she is not present. That gal could be pushed down and hidden away from some wildly tormenting pressures of W’s life and past. Or she is entering a transitional stage of life. Or she (and you) could have drifted off course in your marriage. Or some other life changing / altering event. Or any mixture thereof. None of which is directly fixable by you. And none, which is not further alterable. Guaranteed, W is not done changing. We all constantly grow and change with our experiences.

This situation is fodder for change in you. These experiences, the path you traverse, will alter you. Become the best version of yourself. Find the path, move forward, along the journey that serves you. Digging deep and discovering what that best path is, is a lot of what the divorce busting philosophy entails.

D

[Ready2Change]

When you got 50/50, was/is it exactly 50/50? I've read stories that guys have got that decision, but it was still more like 80/20.

Close to 182/183. I believe that frequent and equal time with both parents is best for the child unless one of the parents is toxic.

"It's yours to loose" are wise words from my lawyer.

Right now you have 100% parenting time if you choose. Let W do whatever she wants. You spend all your time parenting your child.

I see three things can change that:

1) You make agreements with W about parenting time.
2) A judge makes a decision about your parenting time.
3) A restraining order.

At the end of the day, your time with your son during the next few years is what is important.

There is infinite money out there, but only a limited amount of time left to be an active part of your sons life.

[Terapin]

When you got 50/50, was/is it exactly 50/50? I've read stories that guys have got that decision, but it was still more like 80/20.

Close to 182/183. I believe that frequent and equal time with both parents is best for the child unless one of the parents is toxic.

"It's yours to loose" are wise words from my lawyer.

Right now you have 100% parenting time if you choose. Let W do whatever she wants. You spend all your time parenting your child.

I see three things can change that:

1) You make agreements with W about parenting time.
2) A judge makes a decision about your parenting time.
3) A restraining order.

At the end of the day, your time with your son during the next few years is what is important.

There is infinite money out there, but only a limited amount of time left to be an active part of your sons life.

I'd never try to keep our son away from his mother, unless she completely goes off the deep end. I would absolutely like full custody, but I know that's not in his best interest. i'd think my W, who's a professional therapist/child counselor, would feel the same.

[Terapin]

Steve, like I said, a part of me will never forgive her for this (actually twice in 5 years). When I look at this without any emotion, what I see is a selfish woman who rarely wants sex, doesn't cook, drinks every night, has a ton of debt, and has put me through the ringer for 20 straight years. Emotionally I want to save the M for the sake of the family, and I do love her. But rationally, Art Carney can have her too.

You need to work through this duplicity in counseling. You can't here saying you didn't want to see the marriage (or at least that was what you thought you "wanted"). But everytime you found evidence that she was planning on D you seemed disappointed. We respond to your disappointment and then you claim you really don't want to save it.

I get that you're confused but the advice you receive can only be about what you are currently posting. Heck you even said to her that since things had been better you thought things were going to work out!

If you're confused, and we're confused, I can guarantee you that so it's she!

Let's recap:

T comes here talking and BD #2.
T doesn't know if he wants to save them marriage.
T's wife starts being nice.
T seems to be happy about things being better.
T keeps getting disappointed when he finds evidence that his wife is still contemplating D.
T's W finally sits him down to reiterate that her plan is to D.
T comes here deflated.
T gets advice that things are really no different than before the sit down.
T insists that he still isn't sure if he wants to save the marriage.

Look at the first line. Look at the list line. Ask them lines in between are meaningless! You are in the same position now as you were when you first came back to the board.

We've seen several situations like this. Where the LBS thinks that a sit down talk is the WAS moving the D forward. Reverb though it's still all talk and inaction on them WAS's part.

My advice. Work through what you really want in IC. If D is what your want then go make that happen. If you want to try to save it, DB your butt off. But stop being a casual observer of your own life, be an active participant. Because my fear is that in a few more weeks we'll be having the same discussion and exchange.

Tldr; You're stuck in place.

Yeah, I am confused. Of course if we saved the M, BOTH made changes, and lived happily ever after, that would be my choice. And I do get blinded by that pipe dream. But I know it's not reality, because honestly in 15 years, she's never really met me halfway. Hell, even a quarter of the way. And that's what's makes me think it's not worth saving. You're right, I need to go to IC.

I'm glad you broke things down like this. It's kinda funny to see that 6 weeks on the roller coaster, and I'm still in the exact place I started. I really need to make a decision and stick with it.

Thanks!

[Terapin]

Just got back from sons football game. W was there, but then went to a friends to hang out and likely get hammered.

Found out she's been secretly saving up money, and is borrowing more from her parents to pay a retainer fee next week.

Steve, I think the decision is being made for me, and that's fine.

My question is, so when she files and I get served, will that include any kind of written proposals for what she's going to expect/ask for (custody, assets, etc)? Or does that stuff come later?

[SteveLW]

I'm definitely not aD expert. But that last question is what I'm talking about!! Go get prepared and YOU have those written proposals ready!!

[DnJ]

Good Morning T

I hated handing over $200, but I think it was well worth it. Kudos to my W though, cause she had basically everything printed out and organized for the lawyer. My biggest concern is my son, and she said 50/50 is almost guaranteed. My other big concern was our debt. Our normal debt (credit cards, etc) would be split, but her $170,000 student loan would go with her. I wouldn't/shouldn't be responsible for any of it. She said since W makes more money, has a higher earning potential, and has more in her 401k than I do, the only one that could receive alimony or child support would be me if I wanted to pursue it (I don't), and I'd be entitled to the difference in our 401k's (about $6000). She also laughed when I told her about W tellign her lawyer about speeding the process along due to a 'lack of physical intimacy'. She said even if she files, the process will go as fast or as slow as I want.

I didn't pay the retainer fee yet, but if W continues with this I'm confident in this lady. She also said W's lawyer is very reasonable and likely wouldn't push to fight for much.

I’d suggest paying the retainer fee and asking your lawyer about being served and the legal process in your locale.

Having legal representation from early on can prove very beneficial if things take unforeseen turns. And it is less stressful upon you, as you have a lawyer looking after the details, paperwork, filing, deadlines, and such (oh, there is so much to disentangle when dissolving a marriage). With that looked after, you just provide certain decisions when those times come along.


From my layman’s understanding, and my experiences, being served means W has actually filed the divorce petition before the courts. You are being served notice of needing to respond. Yes, the details of the proposal would be provided, and there is a deadline to it. A timeframe is which you need to reply back to the courts. If you agree with said proposal, you sign and the courts look it over, and likely approve it. If you do not agree, you can counter propose. Of course, this being before the courts limits how long and how many back and forth you and she can make; the court has lots to do and is there to make judgements, not waste time.

Being presented (not served) a proposal from W, or her lawyer, is much more in the realm of negotiating. Basically, usually, her lawyer would send your lawyer a signed proposal of the splitting up of all martial assets. Proposals/splitting/waving of titles, deeds, loans, accounts, investments, vehicles, custody, pensions, homesteader rights, and on and on. Like I previously said, lots to disentangle. (My divorce was really straightforward, and it still accumulated to around 50 pages.)

If W’s proposal is acceptable, you sign, and you have a binding separation agreement. Note, in some locales there is not a legal separation or a one year cool down before divorce, it is just straight to divorced. In this case, this still allows for back and forth negotiating, finding mutually agreement, before presenting to the courts.

If the proposal is not acceptable, your lawyer (with your decisions) makes some revisions, and forwards a signed by you proposal back to W’s lawyer. If she agrees, she signs, and the binding agreement is done.

This review and revision can continue as long as you two want. Each modifying the proposal. Ethical lawyers will coach you as to what is likely to just prolong things, while less than stellar lawyers will be more than happy to be confrontational while racking up billable hours. No point fighting and spending thousands over a toaster. (My lawyer’s upfront retainer/fee/cost was a flat fee for everything that would be needed to get a separation agreement outside of a courtroom. If we ended up in court, those hours would be charged above that.)

With a signed by both parties separation agreement, the lawyers also sign and swear they provided individual legal counsel, and you entered into this agreement of your own volition and free from coercion. The document is filed before the courts and you are separated.

There is a year long cool down period, in which if the partners live together for 90 days, the separation agreement automatically becomes null and void. Nothing legally has happened, after all you are still married during this time.

After the one year cool down period, then either party can file for divorce. Neither has to, and without filing you are legally married and separated. Some folks find this position fulfils certain religious requirements of their’s. However, when one files, it now truly goes before the courts and they rule upon it. If they agree with the separation, the divorce is granted and becomes legal, dissolving the marriage.

When I went through my separation and divorce, I had no idea what the process was. And I was pretty darn emotionally compromised too.

Divorce will likely be the biggest financial decision of your life. My advice is to hire a lawyer and offload the work horse portion of this business to one who actually does this stuff for a living.

Hope this helps. Take care.

D

[Terapin]

Hey D. Thanks. Yeah, it's all really overwhelming. and this doesn't even take into consideration splitting the household assets and stuff.

Since, unlike my W, I haven't secretly been stashing money, I'm going to have to get some stuff together quickly. I also saw on her texts that the attorney she had a consult with isn't the one that's representing her. It's the attorney she worked for for years. And lol at him still charging her the full retainer feel. She probably thought he'd do it for free.

I have a call in to meet with another recommended attorney. Hopefully he does a free consult. And I guess when I get served, then I just pay the retainer of whichever L I choose and take the info to him/her?

Anyway, D, Steve, etc, thanks for all the info and advice. I feel like I'm hijacking the board or something, cause this is a 'divorce busting' site and not divorce advice site. So D (or whichever mod), I can stop posting here if this is inappropriate for the forum

[Ready2Change]

My question is, so when she files and I get served, will that include any kind of written proposals for what she's going to expect/ask for (custody, assets, etc)? Or does that stuff come later?

Speaking in layman terms,describe the divorce process starting when one spouse files divorce papers and the other is served.


Certainly! Please note that divorce processes can vary depending on the jurisdiction, so it's important to consult with a legal professional in your specific area for accurate advice. That being said, I can provide a general overview of the divorce process after one spouse files divorce papers and the other is served.

Filing the Petition: The spouse initiating the divorce, known as the petitioner or plaintiff, files a petition for divorce with the appropriate court. The petition outlines the grounds for divorce, requests for child custody, support, property division, and any other relevant issues.

Serving the Divorce Papers: Once the petition is filed, the petitioner ensures that the divorce papers are served to the other spouse, known as the respondent or defendant. This is usually done through a process server or a designated individual approved by the court to deliver the papers. Proper service is important to ensure that the respondent is aware of the divorce proceedings.

Respondent's Response: After being served with the divorce papers, the respondent has a certain period, typically 30 days, to respond. The response may include an answer to the petition, addressing the issues raised by the petitioner, and potentially a counterclaim if the respondent wishes to raise additional claims or requests.

Discovery and Disclosure: Both spouses, along with their attorneys, engage in the process of discovery and disclosure. This involves gathering and exchanging relevant information, such as financial documents, property valuations, and other evidence related to child custody or support matters. This stage aims to ensure both parties have a complete understanding of the marital assets and liabilities.

Negotiations and Settlement: Once the necessary information is exchanged, negotiations may take place between the spouses and their attorneys to reach a settlement agreement. The agreement covers issues such as property division, alimony, child custody, child support, and visitation rights. If both parties can agree on all terms, they may present the settlement agreement to the court for approval.

Mediation or Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR): If the parties are unable to reach a settlement through negotiations, they may opt for mediation or other forms of ADR. A neutral third party, the mediator, helps facilitate discussions between the spouses to reach an agreement. Mediation can be helpful in resolving disputes without going to trial.

Trial: If a settlement cannot be reached through negotiations or mediation, the divorce case may proceed to trial. Each spouse presents their case before a judge, who will make decisions on contested issues, such as property division, child custody, and support. The court will consider the evidence and arguments presented by both sides before issuing a final judgment.

Finalizing the Divorce: Once the court makes a decision or the parties reach a settlement agreement, a final judgment of divorce is issued. This judgment legally ends the marriage and addresses all the issues resolved during the divorce process, including child custody, support, property division, and alimony.

It's essential to note that this is a simplified overview, and the actual divorce process can involve more steps and complexities. Consulting with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction will provide you with specific guidance tailored to your situation.

[DnJ]

Hello T

You are welcome to post and ask questions regarding divorce and it’s proceeding. A few things for you to consider:

You aren’t presently divorced. W might push for it, she might delay it, it might even fall off her radar for a while. You are gaining knowledge of the process, letting her lead, and responding when needed is all.

Reconciliation can still occur even after a separation/divorce. Divorce does not necessarily constitute the end. As long as there is love, there is hope. You can still divorce bust even when divorced or preparing for one. Divorce/separation is just the business side of all this. The emotional/healing journey is the true landscape of DB.

One of the first harsh truths of divorce busting is that DB can/will absolutely save you; the marriage is a bonus. The reason is pretty evident, it takes two for a marriage and only one for a divorce.

Embrace DB, become the best possible you. A man only a fool would leave. It’s not a guarantee, however it is pretty much the best chance at reconciling.

Hang in there T. And keep posting. It does get better.

D

[Terapin]

Hello T

You are welcome to post and ask questions regarding divorce and it’s proceeding. A few things for you to consider:

You aren’t presently divorced. W might push for it, she might delay it, it might even fall off her radar for a while. You are gaining knowledge of the process, letting her lead, and responding when needed is all.

Reconciliation can still occur even after a separation/divorce. Divorce does not necessarily constitute the end. As long as there is love, there is hope. You can still divorce bust even when divorced or preparing for one. Divorce/separation is just the business side of all this. The emotional/healing journey is the true landscape of DB.

One of the first harsh truths of divorce busting is that DB can/will absolutely save you; the marriage is a bonus. The reason is pretty evident, it takes two for a marriage and only one for a divorce.

Embrace DB, become the best possible you. A man only a fool would leave. It’s not a guarantee, however it is pretty much the best chance at reconciling.

Hang in there T. And keep posting. It does get better.

D

Thanks. Appreciate it.

It really pisses me off that she's been secretly stashing money to prepare for this. She certainly doesn't seem bothered by what this is going to do to our son, our family, friends, me, etc. It's all about how she 'feels'. I'm so mad that our son is going to go from living in a beautiful home in a great neighborhood to splitting time between two apartments or slum houses.

Every day I develop more and more resentments for her. I don't think I'd ever want to reconcile. I've put up with her crap for far too long.

[Ready2Change]

she's been secretly stashing money to prepare for this.

It is still marital assets. If/when the legal part has started, make sure it is part of discovery.

I found out my X was selling stock without my knowledge to start the legal process. Just part of their script.


Do what you can to protect.

[Terapin]

she's been secretly stashing money to prepare for this.

It is still marital assets. If/when the legal part has started, make sure it is part of discovery.

I found out my X was selling stock without my knowledge to start the legal process. Just part of their script.


Do what you can to protect.

I took a picture of her text message saying how much money she has in there. How do people live with themselves pulling this [censored] on people they supposedly 'love'. Even if she doesn't love me, I would hope she loves our son, but she doesn't care one bit what this is going to do to him.

[Terapin]

I'm feeling pretty bad this morning. I'm at work, and I know that at this moment W is meeting with her L and filing. Son also left for his 6th grade camp, and won't get home till Wednesday. In almost 13 years I don't think I've ever went 2 days without seeing him. And thinking about how in a few months, it'll be normal not to see him for days/week at a time really makes me mad.

Also not really looking forward to being in the house alone with W the next two nights. I'll go find something to do, but money's so tight right now I hate even spending $20 on dinner. This [censored]

[Boat14]

It looks like you are exiting the denial stage and are moving into the anger stage. This is part of the process you have to go through. Unfortunately there are no short cuts. I know you don’t believe this now but in time you will adjust to seeing your son less. You will see him less but the time you spend with him will be more meaningful and fulfilling. It’s hard to see now but in time you will understand.

It doesn’t make sense to the LBS how they are willing to give up half their time with their children. We have seen some here willing to give them a way. That’s how unhappy they are right now. Only time will tell if you were the sole reason for her unhappiness.

[Rockon]

T, I’m sorry man. That does (censored) and I feel some of what you describe. Take really good care of yourself. What are some things you can plan/schedule these next couple days for you?

[DnJ]

Good Morning T

It’s perfectly normal to feel angry and upset; it’s part of grief. Feel those emotions, safely express them, work/sweat them out, let them wash over you.

Do be careful of reinforcing those feelings; and their influence upon you, your outlook, and life.

I'm so mad that our son is going to go from living in a beautiful home in a great neighborhood to splitting time between two apartments or slum houses.

This is quite an assumed bleak future. You might end up in a different house. Maybe even a smaller house or apartment. A slum? That’s unlikely. You do control you, and you can make your house, regardless of its size, a wonderful loving home for you and son.

The future is unknown and unwritten, let it unfold. Fear causes one to imagine bleak hurtful futures. Very often, that worse case never comes to pass.

How do people live with themselves pulling this [censored] on people they supposedly 'love'.

Very poorly.

People’s conduct and choices do eventually come back around. They may put on a mask, a facade, of how wonderful everything is with such “awesome” choices. Yet, in the dark stillness of night, laying in bed, one’s regrets and demons will play.

They live a tormented life. Betrayal is the worst thing one can do. Betraying loved ones will haunt.

Even if she doesn't love me, I would hope she loves our son, but she doesn't care one bit what this is going to do to him.

Be careful of mind reading or surmising her state.

She “appears” to not care. True, folks lost in turmoil have a lack of empathy. Sometimes, that is from such internal torment and pain, that they must mute, end, their feelings. They simply cannot handle it. They are cranked all the way up to eleven, and desperately looking for peace/relief. And desperate people do desperate things.

Every day I develop more and more resentments for her. I don't think I'd ever want to reconcile. I've put up with her crap for far too long.

Yep. Resentment can build.

This path doesn’t serve you.

Look deep. Do you really want to feel, believe, live, full of resentment?

Most often resentment grows from unmet expectations. Let go and give her to God.

It takes a certain amount of understanding, of rationalizing, before one will let go. You are getting there. Place the majority of your focus upon you and son. GAL. Dial your expectations and those imagined future down. You do need to plan for various possible outcomes, and yet live a more middle of the road life.

In life, we do have to play the cards we’re dealt. Realize, there are still more cards to deal, and more hands to play here. Dig for patience, it’s a long game. Time is a gift, use it wisely.

…she doesn't care one bit what this is going to do to him.

As for what it will do to for your son. That, is well within your influence.

Do not demonized his Mom. Love son unconditionally. Be his rock. The strong stable parent. He will lash out to you. That’s often to you, not against you. Perfectly fine, for he cannot risk losing his Mom, so he will seek you.

He will also seek you for the rest as well. Be his role model. A living example.

Last week, I was helping my youngest son move to his new apartment in a different city. We got to travel together for many hours, and we got to talk plenty. His point of view, his words, his open honest unprompted sharing:

All this changed him. Mom leaving. The divorce. And most especially my leading. This terrible unwanted situation made him a better person than he’d likely have been.

Consider that. Just how transformative, how positive this situation can be. It up to us to turn what “can be” into what “will be” and eventually “is”.

I control me. And I do exert influence. Gentle steering, understanding, kindness, compassion, empathy, forgiveness. All these tenets my son (and the other three kids at other times) spoke of, and how he saw them in me, experienced and found them, and is continually working towards them. He is much more emotionally aware. A straight up better man and person.

We don’t get much say in the cards we are dealt. We do get say in how we play. And the goal(s) of the our game.

You do set the rules of your game, of your life, of how you play.

The benefits that are possible from this journey can far outweigh the destruction and hurt.

D

[Terapin]

It looks like you are exiting the denial stage and are moving into the anger stage. This is part of the process you have to go through. Unfortunately there are no short cuts. I know you don’t believe this now but in time you will adjust to seeing your son less. You will see him less but the time you spend with him will be more meaningful and fulfilling. It’s hard to see now but in time you will understand.

It doesn’t make sense to the LBS how they are willing to give up half their time with their children. We have seen some here willing to give them a way. That’s how unhappy they are right now. Only time will tell if you were the sole reason for her unhappiness.

I think the anger has been there. lol. She withdrew $500 from our savings account this morning to help pay for her lawyer. I just transferred the same amount to my checking account, as well as adjusting my direct deposit to only send some of my paycheck to our joint account. I also ordered checks, removed her from my life insurance, and set up a consultation with another lawyer for next week. Oddly enough, all of this stuff felt pretty good to do.

She has told several people that I've been in 'denial' about this whole sitch, and I'm not 'accepting' what is happening. lol. Self centered to the extreme.

[Terapin]

T, I’m sorry man. That does (censored) and I feel some of what you describe. Take really good care of yourself. What are some things you can plan/schedule these next couple days for you?

Thanks Rock. I've been following your threads as well. It [censored].

I'll find ways to keep myself busy. I have baseball practice tomorrow. Tonight will be tough though. She may tell me she filed today. I'll probably just say 'cool' and walk away.

[Terapin]

Good Morning T

It’s perfectly normal to feel angry and upset; it’s part of grief. Feel those emotions, safely express them, work/sweat them out, let them wash over you.

Do be careful of reinforcing those feelings; and their influence upon you, your outlook, and life.

I'm so mad that our son is going to go from living in a beautiful home in a great neighborhood to splitting time between two apartments or slum houses.

This is quite an assumed bleak future. You might end up in a different house. Maybe even a smaller house or apartment. A slum? That’s unlikely. You do control you, and you can make your house, regardless of its size, a wonderful loving home for you and son.

The future is unknown and unwritten, let it unfold. Fear causes one to imagine bleak hurtful futures. Very often, that worse case never comes to pass.

How do people live with themselves pulling this [censored] on people they supposedly 'love'.

Very poorly.

People’s conduct and choices do eventually come back around. They may put on a mask, a facade, of how wonderful everything is with such “awesome” choices. Yet, in the dark stillness of night, laying in bed, one’s regrets and demons will play.

They live a tormented life. Betrayal is the worst thing one can do. Betraying loved ones will haunt.

Even if she doesn't love me, I would hope she loves our son, but she doesn't care one bit what this is going to do to him.

Be careful of mind reading or surmising her state.

She “appears” to not care. True, folks lost in turmoil have a lack of empathy. Sometimes, that is from such internal torment and pain, that they must mute, end, their feelings. They simply cannot handle it. They are cranked all the way up to eleven, and desperately looking for peace/relief. And desperate people do desperate things.

Every day I develop more and more resentments for her. I don't think I'd ever want to reconcile. I've put up with her crap for far too long.

Yep. Resentment can build.

This path doesn’t serve you.

Look deep. Do you really want to feel, believe, live, full of resentment?

Most often resentment grows from unmet expectations. Let go and give her to God.

It takes a certain amount of understanding, of rationalizing, before one will let go. You are getting there. Place the majority of your focus upon you and son. GAL. Dial your expectations and those imagined future down. You do need to plan for various possible outcomes, and yet live a more middle of the road life.

In life, we do have to play the cards we’re dealt. Realize, there are still more cards to deal, and more hands to play here. Dig for patience, it’s a long game. Time is a gift, use it wisely.

…she doesn't care one bit what this is going to do to him.

As for what it will do to for your son. That, is well within your influence.

Do not demonized his Mom. Love son unconditionally. Be his rock. The strong stable parent. He will lash out to you. That’s often to you, not against you. Perfectly fine, for he cannot risk losing his Mom, so he will seek you.

He will also seek you for the rest as well. Be his role model. A living example.

Last week, I was helping my youngest son move to his new apartment in a different city. We got to travel together for many hours, and we got to talk plenty. His point of view, his words, his open honest unprompted sharing:

All this changed him. Mom leaving. The divorce. And most especially my leading. This terrible unwanted situation made him a better person than he’d likely have been.

Consider that. Just how transformative, how positive this situation can be. It up to us to turn what “can be” into what “will be” and eventually “is”.

I control me. And I do exert influence. Gentle steering, understanding, kindness, compassion, empathy, forgiveness. All these tenets my son (and the other three kids at other times) spoke of, and how he saw them in me, experienced and found them, and is continually working towards them. He is much more emotionally aware. A straight up better man and person.

We don’t get much say in the cards we are dealt. We do get say in how we play. And the goal(s) of the our game.

You do set the rules of your game, of your life, of how you play.

The benefits that are possible from this journey can far outweigh the destruction and hurt.

D

Thanks. I understand and agree with this. I know she really loves our son, and she'll continue to be there for him, just like I"ll be.

I do worry about our living arrangements. Neither of us will be able to afford very much in the way of houses, at least for a few years. By then he'll be turning 18.

I'm glad to hear that about your son. That makes me feel better, and it's not like D is uncommon these days, so lots of kids have to deal with it. Hell, D is pretty much promoted by the media, movies, etc. It's just a shame some people buy into it.

[Terapin]

W told me she did indeed retain a lawyer today. She tried showing me some bank account stuff to prove that she isn't hoarding money (this in response to me withdrawing money today). Wait till she sees only 75% of my paycheck deposited this week.

Apparently we're still going to be amicable. She said she still wants 50/50 custody. That's a huge relief. We talked about him for a while, and I sat there and listened to her babble about how this is actually what's best for him, how she wants to make this as easy on him as possible, etc, etc. I couldn't take it anymore so when she asked for my 'thoughts', I essentially told her that I can't even describe the amount of resentment I have for her for putting everybody through this, again. All she said in return was that I was free to feel however I want.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that in a year or two my life will be a helluva lot better. Not worrying about jumping through hoop after hoop after hoop just in hopes that she'll show the slightest bit of love in return. I guess i should consider myself lucky that she's not going to drag this out and make it ugly (at least for now).

[Boat14]

Jumping through hoops to achieve someone’s love is not an attractive trait which typically leads to loss of respect and attraction. Plus it leads to resentment and unmet expectations by the person jumping through the hoops. Have you read “No More Mr. Nice Guy”? If not it should be on your list.

Also if she’s telling you how she feels and it’s something you don’t want to hear and you label it “babble” and discount her feelings it makes her feel like you are not listening and understanding how she feels. This typically leads to sexless marriages.

[Terapin]

Jumping through hoops to achieve someone’s love is not an attractive trait which typically leads to loss of respect and attraction. Plus it leads to resentment and unmet expectations by the person jumping through the hoops. Have you read “No More Mr. Nice Guy”? If not it should be on your list.

Also if she’s telling you how she feels and it’s something you don’t want to hear and you label it “babble” and discount her feelings it makes her feel like you are not listening and understanding how she feels. This typically leads to sexless marriages.

Well you're right about that. I guess that's always been the nature of our relationship. I gave way more than I received, although I'm sure she wouldn't see it that way. Yeah, I've read that book. I was way too insecure, jealous, etc when we were dating. As the years went on I improved on those things. But her feminist (no offense feminists!) attitude of 'men should do everything and women should be cherished' grew out of control.

I say 'babble' because her saying our son would be better off having his world shattered is ridiculous. The same as when she rewrites our history. Back when I thought we had a chance, I would have listened and validated. But I'm not going to give her that satisfaction now since all of our lives are upended because of her weekly subjective sense of 'happiness'.

[Ready2Change]

W told me she did indeed retain a lawyer today.....Apparently we're still going to be amicable.

My personal belief is these two statements are contradictory.

What does you gut tell you. Trust your gut.

She tried showing me some bank account stuff to prove that she isn't hoarding money (this in response to me withdrawing money today). Wait till she sees only 75% of my paycheck deposited this week.

This is the no trust phase.

She said she still wants 50/50 custody.

Get this in writing in an email. Send an email like this:

"After our discussion yesterday, I believe it is best if we get a parenting arrangement set up soon. You said you wanted to make the transition as easy as possible for him. What are your thoughts on how we should split our time with him?"

so when she asked for my 'thoughts', I essentially told her that I can't even describe the amount of resentment I have for her for putting everybody through this, again.

Better to say "I am not sure. I need to time think about what you have said."

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that in a year or two my life will be a helluva lot better.

It will. You have to though some BS for a while.

Not worrying about jumping through hoop after hoop after hoop just in hopes that she'll show the slightest bit of love in return.

Now is the time to learn new ways to interact.

[Ready2Change]

My mindset was I am not agreeing to anything until I have a 50/50 parenting plan in writing.

Set precedence now. Right now you have 100% parenting time. That is going to change. Out of your control. What is in your control is how you address it. Start the email dialogs like I said in the last post.

One of my boundaries was primary communication via email. Secondary was text.

my process:

1) Draft up email.
2) Wait, and reread, edit. send.
3) Send W text "I sent you an email"

Worked well.



Might want to check out Chat GPT. It is a good resource for starting some research. Just vet out the answers.

Describe setting precedence with regards to a parenting plan.
ChatGPT

Setting precedence in a parenting plan refers to establishing a consistent routine, structure, and decision-making process that serves as a baseline for future parenting arrangements. It involves creating a framework that provides stability, clarity, and predictability for both parents and children. Here are some key aspects of setting precedence in a parenting plan:

Custody and visitation schedule:
Determine a regular and predictable schedule for the children's time with each parent.
Consider factors such as the children's ages, school schedule, extracurricular activities, and parents' work schedules when creating the schedule.
Ensure that the schedule allows for regular and meaningful contact with both parents.

Decision-making authority:
Define how major decisions regarding the children's upbringing will be made (e.g., education, healthcare, religious upbringing).
Establish whether decisions will be made jointly by both parents or if one parent will have final decision-making authority.
Clearly outline the process for resolving disputes or disagreements regarding decision-making.

Parental communication:
Encourage open and respectful communication between parents regarding the children's well-being.
Specify how communication will occur (e.g., in-person, phone calls, email, text messages) and how often.
Promote cooperation and the sharing of important information about the children's activities, progress, and any significant changes.

Consistency in rules and discipline:
Strive for consistency in parenting styles, rules, and discipline between both households.
Discuss and establish common guidelines for issues such as bedtime routines, homework, screen time, and consequences for misbehavior.
This helps provide stability and a sense of continuity for the children, regardless of which parent they are with.

Flexibility and adaptability:
Recognize that circumstances may change over time, requiring adjustments to the parenting plan.
Establish a process for reviewing and modifying the plan when necessary, while prioritizing the best interests of the children.
Both parents should be willing to work together and be flexible in accommodating changes that benefit the children.

Documentation and record-keeping:
Maintain accurate records of parenting time, important events, and significant decisions.
Document any deviations from the established parenting plan and the reasons behind them.
This can be helpful in addressing future disputes or modifications to the plan.

Remember, setting precedence in a parenting plan should prioritize the best interests of the children and facilitate a healthy co-parenting relationship. It is generally recommended to consult with legal professionals and mediators who specialize in family law to ensure that the parenting plan is fair, legally sound, and suitable for the unique circumstances of the family.

[Kind18]

I agree with R2C. There is no trust or loyalty or dignity when it comes to financial and custodial arrangements. That’s why people on this site say you need to treat it like a business deal.

It’s also why they say to trust none of what they say. You need to prioritise getting her committed to the 50/50 custody. I’d email something like “Thank you for the discussion yesterday, and I accept and support your desire to have 50/50 care. This is a big weight off my shoulders. What are your thoughts on how we split the time equally?”

She has told several people that I've been in 'denial' about this whole sitch, and I'm not 'accepting' what is happening. lol. Self centered to the extreme.

To play devil’s advocate… I think she’s correct 🤷‍♂️

That’s why all of us end up here - because we value marriage and want to save it. If you weren’t in denial and had accepted she was leaving, you wouldn’t have ended up at this site in the first place.

I understand the sentiment, and yes WAS/WS are very often self-centred. But don’t succumb to confirmation bias, where you look under every rock to confirm what you want to hear.

You can respond emotionally when she says you have been in denial, and call her a “self-centred” so-and-so, or you can just accept that she can have whatever opinion she likes. If my ex wife told people I was in denial, I’d revel in that - knowing that my character and loyalty is being proven in my attempts to save the marriage.

Things are about to get worse before they get better. Protect yourself, be smart, avoid interactions - and never respond to anything through emotion or quickly. If you’re home alone with her tonight and she says some dumba** WAW/WW stuff, like “things will be better for son once we split and are happy” don’t even give it the time of day.

You need to get a thicker skin, and always obey the 24 hour rule.

Good luck!

[Spiral]

I would second the recommendation to set the custodial and financial arrangements in place right away. It was the best thing that I did. At the beginning, I think the WAS/WS is often eager to move on and easier to make arrangements with. You shouldn't hesitate to get it out of the way. I know it's a bitter pill to swallow, but once that's settled you can focus on rebuilding your life. And getting the custodial and financial arrangements settled doesn't necessarily speed the divorce process along. I'd also go one step further than putting things in writing. You should be able to finalize those matters with the court while the waiting period (if your area has one) ticks down to zero. Then, you're done with the hard part of the court process and can focus on the emotional healing and recovery.

Spiral

[Boat14]

So when she says you’re in “denial” she means you think everything is ok because you two are cordial and you see your issues being fixable. Most men who come here think that as long as the provide, don’t cheat or abuse their W then everything is fine. That may have been the bar 50 years ago. She sees things as you jump through all these hoops and she gives you nothing in return because she doesn’t feel like it. She can’t figure out why you want to continue this dynamic.

She’s right you should cherish your W. She should cherish you back. That’s the only way relationships work long term. You each have to afraid of losing the other if you don’t step up to the plate.

[Terapin]

Thanks everyone. I mean, as far as I know, her L is drafting agreements for custody, debts, etc. We just need to come up with a schedule (7/7, etc).

I feel stupid for even asking this, but when I get served and if everything looks good, do I need to pay a retainer fee for a L? Is it possible to just pay a L a few hundred dollars to look everything over?

This whole sitch is just so bizarre. No discussions, no thoughts of working on M from the beginning, and fast tracking the D. I could see if there was abuse, infidelity, etc on my part. I still have found no evidence of an affair, but I wouldn't doubt there is. Just 2 months ago we were planning 2 vacations, enjoying an overnight trip with our son, etc. Then one day she basically says 'I want to give up half my time with son, our beautiful home, fully take on all of my debt, hurt our families, lose friends, etc, just to see what's behind Door #3'. I just don't get it.

I am far from perfect. I can be moody, I have little patience, and kissing her ass for years likely made me unattractive to her. But, I look 15 years younger than I am, I work out daily, I spend 90% of my time and money on our family, I'm loyal and faithful, I'm extremely low maintenance, I'm not on drugs, don't run around all night w/ friends, have a really good job, am well known and respected in our town, etc. Apparently that's just not good enough for her. Oh well, her loss. End rant

[Spiral]

Yes, you need to pay a retainer fee for a L to make sure everything works for you. You have to live with the agreement and it takes a great deal of effort and time to rebuild. Don't go cheap on this.

[Dats000]

I say 'babble' because her saying our son would be better off having his world shattered is ridiculous. The same as when she rewrites our history. Back when I thought we had a chance, I would have listened and validated. But I'm not going to give her that satisfaction now since all of our lives are upended because of her weekly subjective sense of 'happiness'.

My W said the same about my D11. She felt D11 would be better off with the divorce. I said no divorce unless something really bad is happening will be better for the kids. My daughter is now devastated.
I’m happy as can be to not be living with W anymore and looking forward to meeting a lady that is a better match for me but my kids are suffering and it [censored]

[Terapin]

Yes, you need to pay a retainer fee for a L to make sure everything works for you. You have to live with the agreement and it takes a great deal of effort and time to rebuild. Don't go cheap on this.

I realize this may be the best $3000 I'll ever spend. I won't cheap out

[Terapin]

I say 'babble' because her saying our son would be better off having his world shattered is ridiculous. The same as when she rewrites our history. Back when I thought we had a chance, I would have listened and validated. But I'm not going to give her that satisfaction now since all of our lives are upended because of her weekly subjective sense of 'happiness'.

My W said the same about my D11. She felt D11 would be better off with the divorce. I said no divorce unless something really bad is happening will be better for the kids. My daughter is now devastated.
I’m happy as can be to not be living with W anymore and looking forward to meeting a lady that is a better match for me but my kids are suffering and it [censored]

The justification and excuses they come up with to make themselves feel better is amazing.

Seriously, has there ever been a psychological study on the walkaway wife? Husbands too. It has to be common enough for it to be classified as some sort of mental disorder

[Ready2Change]

I feel stupid for even asking this, but when I get served and if everything looks good, do I need to pay a retainer fee for a L? Is it possible to just pay a L a few hundred dollars to look everything over?

Before you receive hers, draft up your own. That way you know what you want. Then you can have a lawyer look them both over and advise you.

Lawyers know the court rules and you don't. That is the biggest issue.

I have been playing with Chat-GPT. It is not a substitute for legal advise, but you can have it review things, draft up documents, etc.

[Terapin]

I feel stupid for even asking this, but when I get served and if everything looks good, do I need to pay a retainer fee for a L? Is it possible to just pay a L a few hundred dollars to look everything over?

Before you receive hers, draft up your own. That way you know what you want. Then you can have a lawyer look them both over and advise you.

Lawyers know the court rules and you don't. That is the biggest issue.

I have been playing with Chat-GPT. It is not a substitute for legal advise, but you can have it review things, draft up documents, etc.

I did draft up my own, at least a preliminary one. Regarding household items/assets, I started creating a list, but my God, the crap you accumulate after 17 years.

So is Chat GPT an app, website, etc? I googled it, but I really don't know what I'm looking for. lol

[Terapin]

W has now changed all of her passwords (facebook, ipad, etc). Not that it matters now, as she's already filed. I just found it funny that when I transferred a few hundred dollars to my account, she immediately came home and tried explaining how she's not hiding money or anything from me. Then that night she changes all her passwords and has hidden all of her 'WTF is my Password' notebooks.

[DnJ]

Good Morning T

Yep, W is likely going to become highly secretive. Step off the roller coaster. Turn away from watching the upcoming train wreck. Focus upon you.

As to the business, watch the accounts. Watch the credit cards. Be prepared. Or better yet, cancel the joint credit card(s) and get your own.

In my case, cancelling the joint credit card required me to completely pay it off first. And we just had a family vacation six weeks before the big bomb drop and her announcing and moving out with OM. There was quite a balance on the card which was a bit problematic. Still, it needed to be done.

A long time poster, and good friend, her husband took his paramour on a vacation, put the tens of thousands of dollars in charges on their credit card, and expected her to pay for half of it. Well, she is a strong willed gal, and she blew apart that fantasy of his in pretty short order.

Your W has filed. Be business-like when dealing with her. Protect yourself.

D

[bttrfly]

Good Morning T

Yep, W is likely going to become highly secretive. Step off the roller coaster. Turn away from watching the upcoming train wreck. Focus upon you.

As to the business, watch the accounts. Watch the credit cards. Be prepared. Or better yet, cancel the joint credit card(s) and get your own.

In my case, cancelling the joint credit card required me to completely pay it off first. And we just had a family vacation six weeks before the big bomb drop and her announcing and moving out with OM. There was quite a balance on the card which was a bit problematic. Still, it needed to be done.

A long time poster, and good friend, her husband took his paramour on a vacation, put the tens of thousands of dollars in charges on their credit card, and expected her to pay for half of it. Well, she is a strong willed gal, and she blew apart that fantasy of his in pretty short order.

Your W has filed. Be business-like when dealing with her. Protect yourself.

D

It was $3000, not tens of thousands.

And my exact words were, "If you buy someone a cup of coffee and it costs a nickel, you're paying for all of it yourself. I do not pay for your extra curricular activities."

But he did have a secret credit card, and because it was in his name only I was not responsible for it. However, any card I had access to, even if I wasn't the primary, I had to pay half of.

Terapin, there are many ugly stories here. If so inclined, you can dig them up in the archives. My advice: don't do that. Spend your valuable time instead meeting with your own legal counsel to determine your rights and go from there.

I'm sorry you're in this position. Truly.

DnJ - please don't reference my history any longer. I'm working hard to leave the past in the past and dredging it up is not helpful to my present. Thanks.

[Ready2Change]

cancelling the joint credit card required me to completely pay it off first.

If you can't pay it off, you might consider getting the limit dropped. Think about getting a couple in your name only.

[Terapin]

We don't have any credit cards. We consolidated everything into one loan. We also don't have more than a few hundred bucks in savings or joint checking accounts. I'm really not worrying about her emptying the accounts. There isn't much to take, and defaulting on bills will impact her as much as me. Damn, gotta go. be back!

[DnJ]

bttrfly - No worries. Will do.

[Terapin]

I figured the first holiday weekend since BD would be rough, and it kinda was. Mutual friends and family had parties saturday and sunday. W and I went our separate ways, but spent yesterday with son at a friends cookout. It was a bit awkward. I really think W believes we can continue to hang out at parties and stuff after D. That isn't going to happen. But she kept saying yesterday how none of her friends are 'taking sides', talking bad about me, etc.

I still haven't been served yet. She gave her L paperwork last Monday. Not sure how long it takes

[SteveLW]

T any update?

[Terapin]

T any update?

Nothing new to report. Again, we both went to a mutual friends party on Monday (drove separately). We didn't speak much, but did chat about our son (who was also there). She also mentioned that her student loan ($170,000) is going to be forgiven in 2 years (she works for a non profit, community based company). In a moment of weakness (or 'buzzness' after a few), I said something along the lines of 'that's great. I also heard that we'd get over $80 grand profit for our house. As tough as it's been for us financially, if we would have stayed together in 2 years we'd be like the Rockefellers'. She just said something like 'yeah true, but there's more problems than just money'.

We haven't talked much the last 2 days. I've said nothing unless it involves our son. I still haven't been served papers yet.

[Terapin]

W and I both worked from home today. Son had 1/2 day of school. He just went to the neighbors. W told me she told him when he gets back, if we want, we can go out to dinner. Or if we don't, she can go pick something up. I just said 'ok'.

[Terapin]

Another pretty good weekend I guess. Our best friends daughter had a bridal shower yesterday. W went to hang out with them friday night, then spent all day saturday helping to set up. Then went to the shower yesterday. So son and I hung out all weekend. W then called yesterday and said everyone from the party was going to dinner and invited son and I. We went for an hour or so. A lot of my friends and relatives were there.

Son has a doctors appt this afternoon, and I told W that I would meet them there. Last night she said they would probably go to lunch before the appt and asked me to come. I just said 'I probably won't have time, but I"ll meet you at the appt'.

This is just getting on my nerves at this point. Honestly think W thinks that despite a pending D, everything is just fine and dandy, and we'll be able to hang together in the same circle of friends even after the D. Is that normal? Today will be 2 weeks since she met with her L to start the filing process, but I haven't received anything yet.

[Boat14]

It’s very normal and sometimes actually happens until one or both enter another relationship. Unfortunately you will most likely lose friends and family members. It’s all part of the collateral damage. Divorce affects many people.

[Ready2Change]

I just said 'I probably won't have time [for lunch], but I"ll meet you at the appt'.

Just my 2cents, but drop confusing words from your communication.

[Terapin]

I just said 'I probably won't have time [for lunch], but I"ll meet you at the appt'.

Just my 2cents, but drop confusing words from your communication.

Well it's moot anyway. I met them at the appt, and son wanted to stop for dinner on the way back so we did. It was ok, but I'm noticing a change in myself. Seeing her, and being around her the last few days, maybe even week or two, I'm really having no thoughts or feelings about her whatsoever. Like Sunday when I met her and the bridal shower party at the bar/restaurant, we were sitting next to each other, and (of course she was drunk) I just kept saying to myself 'why would I even want to be with her?' I'm sure I'll have good and bad days, but is this what detachment is? Just a total indifference towards her and what happens?

So I guess my only question now is, since I haven't been served yet (she claims L was filing over 2 weeks ago), should I ask her wtf the hold up is??

[DnJ]

Hello T

…I just kept saying to myself 'why would I even want to be with her?' I'm sure I'll have good and bad days, but is this what detachment is? Just a total indifference towards her and what happens?

So I guess my only question now is, since I haven't been served yet (she claims L was filing over 2 weeks ago), should I ask her wtf the hold up is??

No, I’d not ask her.

Detachment, indifference, and such are emotional states. Decisions made and actions taken based upon emotions usually lead to regret.

Stick to the path. You thought about things. Decided things. Before this moment. Before your temporary reprieve from your feelings. Follow that. Follow your reason.

With the emptiness and silence of W and her behaviour, look inside yourself. Find you. Your values. Your motivations. Know thy self.

This void is temporary, and I suspect will unwind and reassert itself a few times. Do not fritter away your opportunity in all this. It’s still a gruelling road to truly find peace and acceptance.

I'm really having no thoughts or feelings about her whatsoever.

Nature abhors a vacuum and other feelings will loom larger in the void. Stay the course. Continue moving forward.

D

[Boat14]

I’m curious why you want to ask her? We see typically when paperwork gets held up the LBS holds on to the last string of hope the WW has changed their mind or is having second thoughts.

This is a very slow process and unfortunately these things can drag on for years.

[Ready2Change]

Well it's moot anyway.

There is always a next time. Difference behavior on your part will result in changes in the dynamics of the relationship.

[Ready2Change]

So I guess my only question now is, since I haven't been served yet (she claims L was filing over 2 weeks ago), should I ask her wtf the hold up is??

If you are in a rush, file yourself.

If you are not in a rush, then who cares? This is part of detachment. You are not in control of her and what she is doing, so focus on what you control.

[DnJ]

Next thread:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2945872