My last post: She called me on separation docs. Voice was sad and she said she would be thankful if I would sign them.
Told her I am busy and she does not need my signature or presence in this. Then proceeded to finish the call and go hangout with my friends.
Sometimes it feels that she wants my support in these actions as she does not have the full strength to end this. Maybe I'm wrong.
----
Continuing on it. I told her today that I am not signing these proposed documents (they give me no benefit), she immediately started asking why and cornering me into signing it "this is good for you, not only me" type of pushing. I definitely felt a lot of manipulation and pressure.
I got many phrases like: "Is this revenge?" "This is exactly the reason why I want to divorce you" "You are acting immature and childish" "You are stopping me from living my life" "You trapped me for our whole relationship" "I no longer trust you" "I just can not communicate or do it with you" "You are too much for me to handle"
I tried to keep my cool, stated many times that I am not intentionally trying to destroy her plans, I am just protecting myself. That I am willing to cooperate if is not pressuring me so much.
Then she told me that I am still trying to get her back. Even thought, I have not mentioned anything about it and even said that my happiness does not revolve only around her. I will be content and satisfied even if we are truly done, but I am not initiating divorce and I would have preferred to give this marriage a chance.
She asked me for arguments why I don't sign it, I did not give it at first. She got mad. Then I gave it to her. Again she just laughed and still was mad. Then she started threatening to take her things from our home. I just said fine, you are free to take your things.
I tried hard to understand her position and validate it. However, she is still insisting that I do not understand her and this is exactly why we should get divorce. For example, I said that "I can really see that you want to divorce and get this process done. It probably is frustrating for you. I will cooperate and help to ease your pain if it does not ruin my own values & interests". Then she immediately said you don't get me and I want divorce.
I feel way more detached than before, as this pressure did not touch me too much emotionally. If before I would question myself, perhaps I truly pressured her too much or manipulated her. This conversation gave me new perspective, that it might not only be me who is presumably manipulative.
I could be reading wrong between the lines, but some statements even made me question whether this whole thing was a way to keep me in the loop and keep me pursuing. There was definitely this vibe of trying to provoke me into saying that I still care about her or desperately need her in my life. Especially the threats about taking her stuff or not talking to me anymore. Or asking for my permission / presence when she will collect her stuff. I did it the past, but I learned my lessons and I am trying to avoid any pursuing.
I told her that you can sign those docs on her own. She was mad, but did not confirm if she will do it.
I need to continue working on my validation skills as there are still high bursts of pain/hate coming from her. Even if she does not admit it.
To me it seems that she is in so much pain that she wants to stop it badly immediately. She is fully projecting it on to me and I am becoming the single reason for all of her problems. Does the pain truly stop with the divorce? "I am fully happy with my decision" was repeated several times by her.
I repeatedly said that such pressure won't do it with me. I am stepping back, taking my time and space. For her, but more importantly for ME.
To me it seems that she is in so much pain that she wants to stop it badly immediately. She is fully projecting it on to me and I am becoming the single reason for all of her problems. Does the pain truly stop with the divorce?
YUP
and
the pain will not change with the divorce as the marriage is just a casualty of the divorce war. Her root cause of pain is anyone other that the real cause - ie - point the finger at herself.
I think you did well - continue to follow your lawyers advice.
the pain will not change with the divorce as the marriage is just a casualty of the divorce war. Her root cause of pain is anyone other that the real cause - ie - point the finger at herself.
I think you did well - continue to follow your lawyers advice.
I imagine you have seen many of these situations. What happens when you divorce, refuse to look at yourself? What happens then?
I actually got a different perspective from my friend. She said that I did bad because we kept discussing things, while my wife only wanted to get arguments why I don't want to sign.
I'm not fully feeling it since even when I gave what she wanted, it still was not enough to satisfy her.
TellMeSo, I think it wise to give some time and reflect more on the interaction while giving yourself a break. That wasn’t easy was it.
I am learning more about validation, listening, seeking to understand. I think you could do better/learn from this interaction and consider how you have handled these things in the past and where you want to go in the future.
You said,
“ I tried to keep my cool, stated many times that I am not intentionally trying to destroy her plans, I am just protecting myself. That I am willing to cooperate if is not pressuring me so much.
Then she told me that I am still trying to get her back. Even thought, I have not mentioned anything about it and even said that my happiness does not revolve only around her. I will be content and satisfied even if we are truly done, but I am not initiating divorce and I would have preferred to give this marriage a chance.
She asked me for arguments why I don't sign it, I did not give it at first. She got mad. Then I gave it to her. Again she just laughed and still was mad. Then she started threatening to take her things from our home. I just said fine, you are free to take your things.
I tried hard to understand her position and validate it. However, she is still insisting that I do not understand her and this is exactly why we should get divorce. For example, I said that "I can really see that you want to divorce and get this process done. It probably is frustrating for you. I will cooperate and help to ease your pain if it does not ruin my own values & interests". Then she immediately said you don't get me and I want divorce. ”
This could be true, accurate and fair and important ways for you to communicate your boundaries and intentions, but,
“ Then she told me that I am still trying to get her back” Are you? In what ways might that be your hope/expectation that is influencing your actions, communication and way of being with her?
and,
“ I tried hard to understand her position and validate it. However, she is still insisting that I do not understand her and this is exactly why we should get divorce. For example, I said that "I can really see that you want to divorce and get this process done. It probably is frustrating for you. I will cooperate and help to ease your pain if it does not ruin my own values & interests". Then she immediately said you don't get me and I want divorce.” Do you? Get her? Do you want to try to imagine and understand things from her experience ?
I am asking these questions of you to stimulate thought and reflection and I have been asking them of myself.
Recently I took in a webinar from Terry Real that helped me consider these things in new ways. From that I reflected on a conversation where W told me about S, “This (our M breakdown) is not about him. he doesn’t know what it has been like in our marriage,” I thought I validated ok at the time. Then later I thought actually I don’t know what it has been like for W in our M.
This could be true, accurate and fair and important ways for you to communicate your boundaries and intentions, but,
“ Then she told me that I am still trying to get her back” Are you? In what ways might that be your hope/expectation that is influencing your way of being with her?
Thank you, Rockon. No, I am past the point where I want to get her back. At least not actively. That's exactly the point, I have clearly communicated that I will not be doing active pursuing any longer and I am fine with any outcome. Does it mean that if she told me let's try again, I wouldn't try? I would mostly like would, but I am not going to her and continue offering it anymore. I can not be choosing someone who does not choose me back. Even if I still love her, it is not enough to have a striving relationship. And if I love her, I wish her be truly happy (with or without me). Above all, I have to consider myself, my growth & satisfaction.
Originally Posted by Rockon
“ I tried hard to understand her position and validate it. However, she is still insisting that I do not understand her and this is exactly why we should get divorce. For example, I said that "I can really see that you want to divorce and get this process done. It probably is frustrating for you. I will cooperate and help to ease your pain if it does not ruin my own values & interests". Then she immediately said you don't get me and I want divorce.” Do you? Get her? Do you want to try to imagine and understand things from her experience ?
I am asking these questions of you to stimulate thought and reflection and I have been asking them of myself.
I definitely do not get her at this time. I get that she wants quick divorce and technical details, but I do not understand her inner world. She comes back, then disappears for two weeks, then again comes back/leaves and so on. It's a toxic cycle for both of us. It's truly hard to understand what is fully happening.
I have tried to imagine and understand things from her experience. I continued trying for the past 4 months. Even my friends were saying why are you defending her. Just... Whenever I try to get closer, she runs away. Such tendencies are not only now, but even when we were still fully together.
I have imagined how hard this is for her many times. How difficult of a path she choose. I told her many times, but typically I get a response that she is totally happy and this is nonsense.
Whenever I try to get closer, she runs away. Such tendencies are not only now, but even when we were still fully together.
Have you read the pursuit and distance thread?
It perfectly explains this.
I did. That's exactly why I told my friend that there was more to this whole conversation, then just my wife trying to get technical details on our divorce. She kept talking to me for too long just for technical details (I kept talking too long as well).
2 weeks ago, I told her that I will no longer be actively pursuing her. I'm done. Stayed completely silent for 2 weeks. Then this week she started bombing me with these agreements, calls and messages.
Again, she has been promising to take her stuff for more than a month now. No actual action. After I set boundaries today, she again told me she will get her stuff. The way she phrased it was textbook example of her wanting to get me to pursue her. As if she wanted to hear "oh no, please don't. let's try again, why rush?".
I just re-read the thread myself as I had a conversation with the author and there are some excerpts in the thread about that conversation that I had forgotten.
Basically he thought he was a pursurer and his advice is to STOP pursuing.
I just re-read the thread myself as I had a conversation with the author and there are some excerpts in the thread about that conversation that I had forgotten.
Basically he thought he was a pursurer and his advice is to STOP pursuing.
Also that is easier said than done.
I am done with pursuing. But what is the best way to communicate technical details without her thinking this is pursuing? I neither want to pursue, nor even give her ANY potential impression that my responses are pursuing.
I just re-read the thread myself as I had a conversation with the author and there are some excerpts in the thread about that conversation that I had forgotten.
Basically he thought he was a pursurer and his advice is to STOP pursuing.
Also that is easier said than done.
I am done with pursuing. But what is the best way to communicate technical details without her thinking this is pursuing? I neither want to pursue, nor even give her ANY potential impression that my responses are pursuing.
Stick to business. Don't even use traditional greetings and closings. No "Hi, hope you're well." No "thanks, talk later". Etc. Strictly the technical details. If you need help, come here first with what you need to communicate and we can help you word it.
Remember, less words not more.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I need to continue working on my validation skills
Some feedback:
Originally Posted by TellMeSo
I got many phrases like: "Is this revenge?" -NOPE. "This is exactly the reason why I want to divorce you"- "I can see why you would think that" "You are acting immature and childish"-"It must be frustrating for you" "You are stopping me from living my life"- "You are free to live however you want. Nobody is stopping you" "You trapped me for our whole relationship"- "I am sorry you feel that way" "I no longer trust you" - "I can understand the lack of trust" "I just can not communicate or do it with you" - "perfect" "You are too much for me to handle"- "i can see that"
Originally Posted by TellMeSo
I stated many times
Only say things once. This is a good skill the learn and master. Learn statements like this "I already told you. If you are not going to listen the first time, than I see no reason to continue talking with you"
Originally Posted by TellMeSo
Then she immediately said you don't get me and I want divorce.
Validation: "I understand that." You could also add "You sound frustrated" type statements. That shows you "get her". Different example: "You are obviously angry, so I believe it is best if we continue this conversation after you have calmed down"...You walk away and she will get move angry..which is OK.
Originally Posted by TellMeSo
There was definitely this vibe of trying to provoke me into saying that I still care about her or desperately need her in my life. Especially the threats about taking her stuff or not talking to me anymore.
YUP, testing you. Do not react. Do not enter her frame. You want a woman who complements you life. Project that. live that.
One thing I learned was to let my lady be as emotional as she wants. I can handle it. As long as she is not being physical, I just listen and let her vent, even if it is about me. I am the emotional rock.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Cadet, SteveLW and R2C have all given you poignant advice here. Read it carefully.
You did great 👏👏👏
Your problem here is she has gone berserk, so you’ve walked away from the exchange wondering what you should have done differently. THAT’S YOUR ONLY MISTAKE HERE.
If you’d signed it - she’d have been angry.
You didn’t sign it - she was still angry.
I’d you had initiated divorce, she would have been angry.
But you saying you’re indifferent, but she needs to file - she’s even angrier about that.
You being calm - she’s angry.
You validating - she’s angry.
Do you get the point?
This is about HER. Deep down she’s disgusted with herself, but that’s too hard to face. It’s too hard to just come out and say “I’m bored, I fkd up, I shouldn’t have married you, I want to break my vow.”
The problem is, very, VERY few people have the conviction to own their sh*t. So they paint their spouse as a monster - “I had to leave.”
You just need to accept it. No matter WHAT you do, she’s going to be angry. You can either second guess yourself each time and try to placate someone who will always blame you, or you can go “I was respectful, honest and fair during this conversation” and get on with your life.
I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a thousand times - there’s no secret recipe here. There’s nothing you can do/say/be/admit to, that will make her change her anger towards you. She needs to discover all of this for herself, it’s just a matter of you staying strong, calm, level-headed, honest and respectful… and seeing how long you’re prepared to wait.
You did fine. Go have a beer and watch a basketball game. Let her fire burn 🤷♂️
Stick to business. Don't even use traditional greetings and closings. No "Hi, hope you're well." No "thanks, talk later". Etc. Strictly the technical details. If you need help, come here first with what you need to communicate and we can help you word it.
Remember, less words not more.
Thanks, I have to work on this. Yesterday she managed to somewhat provoke a reaction from me. Even if initially I wanted to stick to only few words.
I need to continue working on my validation skills
Some feedback:
Originally Posted by TellMeSo
I got many phrases like: "Is this revenge?" -NOPE. "This is exactly the reason why I want to divorce you"- "I can see why you would think that" "You are acting immature and childish"-"It must be frustrating for you" "You are stopping me from living my life"- "You are free to live however you want. Nobody is stopping you" "You trapped me for our whole relationship"- "I am sorry you feel that way" "I no longer trust you" - "I can understand the lack of trust" "I just can not communicate or do it with you" - "perfect" "You are too much for me to handle"- "i can see that"
I bolded the exact phrases I said to her. Good progress has been done based on your feedback Today we had another brief stint of communication where I validated her ideas in the same manner as you wrote. She was definitely less resistant or angry today.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Only say things once. This is a good skill the learn and master. Learn statements like this "I already told you. If you are not going to listen the first time, than I see no reason to continue talking with you"
Got it. Stick to saying things once.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Validation: "I understand that." You could also add "You sound frustrated" type statements. That shows you "get her". Different example: "You are obviously angry, so I believe it is best if we continue this conversation after you have calmed down"...You walk away and she will get move angry..which is OK.
I actually added a lot of such statements, but she refused to acknowledge them and even said I'm totally fine and calm. I'm happy. Perhaps I should have phrased it better, but she did not fully accept my validation either.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
YUP, testing you. Do not react. Do not enter her frame. You want a woman who complements you life. Project that. live that.
One thing I learned was to let my lady be as emotional as she wants. I can handle it. As long as she is not being physical, I just listen and let her vent, even if it is about me. I am the emotional rock.
What is the main purpose of this testing? To see if I will be there for her? To see if I would crumble? It's interesting as somedays she is fully emotional, sometimes she does not show any emotion at all.
Cadet, SteveLW and R2C have all given you poignant advice here. Read it carefully.
You did great 👏👏👏
Your problem here is she has gone berserk, so you’ve walked away from the exchange wondering what you should have done differently. THAT’S YOUR ONLY MISTAKE HERE.
If you’d signed it - she’d have been angry.
You didn’t sign it - she was still angry.
I’d you had initiated divorce, she would have been angry.
But you saying you’re indifferent, but she needs to file - she’s even angrier about that.
You being calm - she’s angry.
You validating - she’s angry.
Do you get the point?
This is about HER. Deep down she’s disgusted with herself, but that’s too hard to face. It’s too hard to just come out and say “I’m bored, I fkd up, I shouldn’t have married you, I want to break my vow.”
The problem is, very, VERY few people have the conviction to own their sh*t. So they paint their spouse as a monster - “I had to leave.”
You just need to accept it. No matter WHAT you do, she’s going to be angry. You can either second guess yourself each time and try to placate someone who will always blame you, or you can go “I was respectful, honest and fair during this conversation” and get on with your life.
I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a thousand times - there’s no secret recipe here. There’s nothing you can do/say/be/admit to, that will make her change her anger towards you. She needs to discover all of this for herself, it’s just a matter of you staying strong, calm, level-headed, honest and respectful… and seeing how long you’re prepared to wait.
You did fine. Go have a beer and watch a basketball game. Let her fire burn 🤷♂️
Thanks, Kind. It's truly inspiring to hear this! It's nice to hear that I am making a progress.
I will still probably take some time until I completely shift my mindset about what I could have done differently. However, yesterday I was very mindful about her reactions and things I've read on this forum. They were textbook examples from the forum with even the same words. These past conversations showed to me that I maintain being respectful, honesty and supportive to her. Even then, she is still mad at me. As you said, if I communicate she is mad, if I don't she is also mad.
Today she even told me that she does not want separation agreement signed anymore. She will not do anything and just wait until we can officially divorce. It was strange to hear this as yesterday she was pushing this heavily and even mentioned that she will proceed with divorce through "loopholes" in the law now by herself. Today she was saying completely opposite things. Yesterday she told me she does not trust me anymore, today she said that "no worries, I trust you".
There is huge emotional wall between us. Either it will crumble before we divorce as I give her time and space or it might crumble only after our divorce as final & full consequences hits her. Maybe never.
Stick to business. Don't even use traditional greetings and closings. No "Hi, hope you're well." No "thanks, talk later". Etc. Strictly the technical details. If you need help, come here first with what you need to communicate and we can help you word it.
Remember, less words not more.
Thanks, I have to work on this. Yesterday she managed to somewhat provoke a reaction from me. Even if initially I wanted to stick to only few words.
Not going to sugarcoat it, learning to respond vs. react is one of the hardest concepts in DBing. It takes time, patience, practice, and preparation. You're doing the preparation by being here and getting guidance and feedback. Be easy on yourself, don't best yourself up over slip ups. We all have them. I've yet to see anyone DB perfectly. The Key is to learn and grow.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Not going to sugarcoat it, learning to respond vs. react is one of the hardest concepts in DBing. It takes time, patience, practice, and preparation. You're doing the preparation by being here and getting guidance and feedback. Be easy on yourself, don't best yourself up over slip ups. We all have them. I've yet to see anyone DB perfectly. The Key is to learn and grow.
Thanks, Steve. Any good threads or books that you would recommend on it?
Today she even told me that she does not want separation agreement signed anymore. She will not do anything and just wait until we can officially divorce. It was strange to hear this as yesterday she was pushing this heavily and even mentioned that she will proceed with divorce through "loopholes" in the law now by herself. Today she was saying completely opposite things. Yesterday she told me she does not trust me anymore, today she said that "no worries, I trust you".
This should be made a sticky. R2C, can you add this to your thread?
It demonstrates two VERY clear DB principles: 1. It matters not what you say/do/be/admit to/want. All that matters is that most WAS/WS have no idea what they’re doing, what they want, how to get there - and they’ll burn the world down while simultaneously flip-flopping wildly. It’s a dumpster fire, and you just need to let it burn. 2. TMS, you spent significant energy trying to analyse the conversation. Significant time thinking - did I say the right thing, what does her reaction mean, have I pushed her further away, how does it align with DB principles, what do others on the board think happened…. All this fear driven analysis about what it all meant … and less than 24 hours later, the entire script has been flipped. It’s a good lesson - don’t waste your time analysing and worrying about how SOMEONE ELSE may think, want or do. You do you - calm, measured, honest and honourable. Next time you want to spend hours of your life trying to analyse her, remember what just happened. You’re better off sinking that time into hobbies, fitness, holidays, personal development, education and living life the the full.
This should be made a sticky. R2C, can you add this to your thread?
It demonstrates two VERY clear DB principles: 1. It matters not what you say/do/be/admit to/want. All that matters is that most WAS/WS have no idea what they’re doing, what they want, how to get there - and they’ll burn the world down while simultaneously flip-flopping wildly. It’s a dumpster fire, and you just need to let it burn. 2. TMS, you spent significant energy trying to analyse the conversation. Significant time thinking - did I say the right thing, what does her reaction mean, have I pushed her further away, how does it align with DB principles, what do others on the board think happened…. All this fear driven analysis about what it all meant … and less than 24 hours later, the entire script has been flipped. It’s a good lesson - don’t waste your time analysing and worrying about how SOMEONE ELSE may think, want or do. You do you - calm, measured, honest and honourable. Next time you want to spend hours of your life trying to analyse her, remember what just happened. You’re better off sinking that time into hobbies, fitness, holidays, personal development, education and living life the the full.
Thank you, I agree with you. Althought, I view it from a different angle now. My posts are no longer about overanalyzing her actions (I used to focus on that before), but rather to get your feedback on my own actions. Whether I did well or not. Focus now is fully on my own actions, not hers. For this, I try to give some context on her actions.
Originally Posted by Kind18
Absolute boss move 😎. Well done!
Thanks! Let's see if she actually picks her things up.
Not going to sugarcoat it, learning to respond vs. react is one of the hardest concepts in DBing. It takes time, patience, practice, and preparation. You're doing the preparation by being here and getting guidance and feedback. Be easy on yourself, don't best yourself up over slip ups. We all have them. I've yet to see anyone DB perfectly. The Key is to learn and grow.
Thanks, Steve. Any good threads or books that you would recommend on it?
Validation thread is always a good one. The idea behind validation is responding rather than reacting.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Today was a tough day... Even thought I am fully trying to move on and totally shifted my mindset towards bettering myself and rebuilding happiness, some thoughts continue to slip into mind. It seems that she is continously trying to justify her decision, especially during our conversations if I disagree with something or do not provide the answer she expects. I need to continue working on having max space and time from her. This will benefit us both.
How are you maintaining positive thoughts on such days?
You don’t always have to maintain positive thoughts. It’s not as easy as starting DB and everything gets solved overnight.
Separation and divorce is a marathon. The first 12 months minimum are a battle.
Your measure of progress TMS is not when everything is perfect. The measure of progress is that those hard days, when it seems insurmountable and your emotions control you rather than your brain - they just start to get a bit less frequent.
A few months in, you’ll have a couple of bad days a week.
At six months, you can often go a week before having a wobble.
At twelve months, you might only struggle one day a month, and even then it might only be half a day.
Rome wasn’t built in a day. Rather than collapse and catastrophise when you’re having a bad day, embrace it. Know it’s part of the process. Every time you have a crap day, you’re getting closer towards the end.
It’s like climbing Mount Everest in a year. Sometimes you’ll slide back a step or two and feel defeated, but if you zoom out, you’re higher than you were last week/last month/last year.
Have you read my exercise thread? Exercise is the single best thing you can do to assist your own mental health while recovering from separation and divorce. There’s also stuff later on in my thread on how to limit rumination time so that bad days become bad hours, bad minutes and eventually bad seconds.
My W finally took her things out of our house today. It was an interesting interaction as I was at home. Wife said she is sick and has physical pain, but she was very silent, I could hear sadness or unhappiness in her voice. As if life has been sucked out of her. Although she mentioned that she is fully happy right now.
I was calm, relaxed during the whole interaction. I was definitely more positive, upbeat and happy today. I got this negative vibe all the way from her, while I maintained polite and kind responses. Even helped her pack some of the things and helped to move things. After helping I received some semi-sarcastic words that she used to do these things only by herself and was fully cable of doing everything herself. Please note that I was not insisting on helping her, she asked me for help, while she was packing.
I asked a couple of questions how she is doing she did answer with one or two words. Many chaotic messages from her ranging from I love my job to I want to quit my job. From I am settling down and taking these things for my new home to I am going to leave the country and live somewhere else. Either she is hiding things from me or completely lost. She wants to change her whole life. Restart it.
I can see that whenever there is any potential glimpse of discussion on her emotions she immediately shuts down, gaslights or denies everything. As if she is running from them completely even after this time.
My wife noticed that I have done massive positive changes and I am on a good path to further enhance them. She can truly notice. Although she tried go "sell" me that this is why divorce is such a good thing for me. That everything is just perfect now. I just smiled as I will continue my personal growth with or without divorce. I am happy on my progress and even satisfied to do things on my own.
Also W said that I can now bring a new women since her stuff is gone. I remained truthful to my principles and responded: "Currently I am a married man and I am sticking to my core values and vows". She just laughed at it.
I believe my only single major slippage was asking how did we get from marriage & saying forever to this in a span of several months? She turned to me with complete apathy and said "oh well, such is life". At that moment I felt like only completely traumatized person would say these things in such a manner. I could only imagine myself showing no compassion or empathy in this way if the other person was physical abusing, cheating for years. Let me tell you, it is not the case.
Overall, I am pretty satisfied how I handled everything. I was polite, cheerful, helpful, respectful. I showed kindness even if I did not receive much back. I was the leader and bright beacon instead of playing a victim or blaming her for something. I simply wished her best luck with her life and showed that I can continue my life happily even without her. If I would be looking at our interaction from 3rd person angle, I would probably say that I was the one to initiate the divorce/living my life to the fullest and she was the sad, hurt person. I've seen her happy, I've seen her confident, I've seen her being satisfied with her life and choices. Today was not such day for her.
I do feel that I continue to heal in a good way. Typically during/after such meeting I would have a high heart rate and cry afterwards. Today I was totally fine during and after the meeting. Once she left I packed my stuff and went to my friends to have a spontaneous BBQ and wonderful time. Life is good when you decide to go with the flow and enjoy the little moments.
Another message from her today. Asking to pick up remaining things tomorrow. Very polite and friendly conversation. It was even strange that she was friendly after many angry/sad comments from her lately.
Also, today was a great day! I reconnected with my family on another level!
Another happy day for me! Another day of her coming to pick things up! Hopefully this is the last time she comes around.
Everyone around me told me that I look great, detached. Reconnected with many people over the last week. Feels good to be alive!
TMS, just keep your eyes forward, and don't let her distract you. No matter what she says and does, you're the master of your domain! She can leave. She can comeback. None of that matters to what you need to do! You're doing great at this juncture, just keep moving forward!
You've got this!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
TMS, how are you holding up with that interaction in the rear view? Hope you’re having a good weekend.
URS0, thanks for asking.
There have been days where I was sad, but mostly I'm doing good these days. Especially when it's sunny outside
I am in no contact for almost 2 weeks now. Nothing from her either. Had a great weekend with friends.
I made an absolutely bold move today for full detaching/GAL. Bought tickets for a vacation on the other side of the world. And guess what? It's our anniversary! If she will want to comeback and celebrate it together she can buy tickets later, if not I will be enjoying it with my friends. One way or another it will be a great anniversary! With or without her!
I made an absolutely bold move today for full detaching/GAL. Bought tickets for a vacation on the other side of the world. And guess what? It's our anniversary! If she will want to comeback and celebrate it together she can buy tickets later, if not I will be enjoying it with my friends. One way or another it will be a great anniversary! With or without her!
Just dig down deep inside and make sure you’re doing this for the right reasons. If you’re doing it to make a statement or pressure/manipulate her, it will blow up badly. You have to be completely okay with her deciding she’s going on her own vacation, to the opposite side of the world to you.
If that’s okay with you and you’d wish her all the best, then that’s healthy detachment. If you’d be hurt if she told you she’s going on a Caribbean singles cruise, then you need to question your motivations for your trip.
It’s okay to have a sad day TMS. Think of it like this - to go from being married and an unexpected bomb day…. All the way to marriage saved or happily single - we all have to eat a few hundred sh*t sandwiches to get there.
Grief/sadness is normal. Don’t run from it, but also don’t get overwhelmed by it.
Imagine you require 200 sh*t days to get from bomb day until internal happiness. Each time a sh*t day comes along, you’re one step closer to the end of the journey, aren’t you? Embrace it.
1. “I feel sad. I remember what used to be. I have cried a few times today.”
Becomes
2. “I’ve cried previously and I’ve been okay, so I’ll be okay eventually this time too.”
Becomes
3. “Grief is an important part of growing as a person.”
Becomes
4. “I only have to eat 150 more sh*t sandwiches after today 👍”
Think of grief as a road which takes you to where you’re going. Travel it, feel every bump, get used to the sensation. If you embrace the journey, you’ll get to your destination.
But if you don’t like the rough road and hit the brakes and come to a stop - you’ll never get there.
I made an absolutely bold move today for full detaching/GAL. Bought tickets for a vacation on the other side of the world. And guess what? It's our anniversary! If she will want to comeback and celebrate it together she can buy tickets later, if not I will be enjoying it with my friends. One way or another it will be a great anniversary! With or without her!
Just dig down deep inside and make sure you’re doing this for the right reasons. If you’re doing it to make a statement or pressure/manipulate her, it will blow up badly. You have to be completely okay with her deciding she’s going on her own vacation, to the opposite side of the world to you.
Thanks for commenting. This is fully my decision based on me. To be honest, I did not even know the dates when my friend was booking it It's just a strange coincidence.
These days I am fully focused on me. Wishing her happiness and peaceful mind. I would even be glad if she went on her own trip if it helps her be happy.
Interesting new development. Our divorce process has not even started yet. However, she changed her surname back to maiden name on all social media platforms.
I was not even aware of this until my friends pointed it out to me.
No big reaction from my side. I am just wondering if this is a statement that she wants to fully move on and date other people?
Interesting new development. Our divorce process has not even started yet. However, she changed her surname back to maiden name on all social media platforms.
I was not even aware of this until my friends pointed it out to me.
No big reaction from my side. I am just wondering if this is a statement that she wants to fully move on and date other people?
Been here a little over 3 years, and I don't post often but I do keep up. I'm really struggling to think of 1 situation where there wasn't an affair going on, at least an emotional one.
Me: 40 EX:37 Together 17 years Married 16 years 5 kids, 20,18,15,14,11
Echoing others. The plan of a WAS is always to move on and date others. Whether they are already doing it or not. Read other people's situations and you'll see this is all very very common.
My wife kept claiming she didn't know that she wanted. If I pushed her she'd always say yes that she still wanted a divorce. Then I found her profile on a couple of well known dating sites.
Very few WASs intend to stay single forever.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
For me, having emotional/physical affair during marriage and not wanting to stay single/date other guys after marriage is two different things. I assume you were referring to the first one where there is an affair, while still in marriage (prior to BD)?
It's obvious that the majority of people wants to have a partner long-term. That is my intention too.
The thing is that she can only divorce without my mutual consent only after around 1y from now. Therefore, it's strange that she is fully committing to this now.
At least I am not emotionally affected by these moves anymore. I am still a bit curious why she is acting this way now, but that's it.
You realize that a lot of WASs date while waiting for D, right? In fact, most WASs put the cart before the horse and date before D is even filed! That's why most of the time the D is filed by the LBS.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You realize that a lot of WASs date while waiting for D, right? In fact, most WASs put the cart before the horse and date before D is even filed! That's why most of the time the D is filed by the LBS.
Why are they not filling if they want to date other people?
Because they want to make sure they are in solid with OP first. A monkey doesn’t let go of the branch until it has its hand wrapped around another branch.
Most people "monkey branch". They make sure they have a good hold on the new person before they let go of the current person. Those of us that arrive here are the ones that got let go of.
Secrete affairs are very addicting for the people involved. Part of the allure is the secrecy.
I see comments above say "dating"...from my observations, I personally believe that word should be replaced with "having sex".
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Well, then she might be pretty deep with OP. I see no coming backing after this latest statement.
Actually, my friends are furious.
You see no coming back? So you're pulling the plug?
Usually WASs do things like this for a specific purpose. Could be she's lying to OM about how far along the divorce/separation process is. She did this to prove it to him.
Another reason most WASs date before filing is because it's likely the OP is also married. And not ready to leave their spouse due to being unsure of them permanence of the affair.
Plus there are kids and extended family to think about. It's all very complicated.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Well, then she might be pretty deep with OP. I see no coming backing after this latest statement.
Actually, my friends are furious.
You see no coming back? So you're pulling the plug?
Usually WASs do things like this for a specific purpose. Could be she's lying to OM about how far along the divorce/separation process is. She did this to prove it to him.
Another reason most WASs date before filing is because it's likely the OP is also married. And not ready to leave their spouse due to being unsure of them permanence of the affair.
Plus there are kids and extended family to think about. It's all very complicated.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Most people "monkey branch". They make sure they have a good hold on the new person before they let go of the current person. Those of us that arrive here are the ones that got let go of.
But is this actually the case of most divorces or just this forum specifically?
Originally Posted by SteveLW
You see no coming back? So you're pulling the plug?
Usually WASs do things like this for a specific purpose. Could be she's lying to OM about how far along the divorce/separation process is. She did this to prove it to him.
Another reason most WASs date before filing is because it's likely the OP is also married. And not ready to leave their spouse due to being unsure of them permanence of the affair.
Plus there are kids and extended family to think about. It's all very complicated.
Unfortunately, I can not pull the plug yet according to our laws. There are certain restrictions to prevent divorce immediately after marriage. Unless cheating can be proven.
I do agree that this seems like specific purpose. All logic supports this. In our case, we have no kids, but my only suspect for OP is a guy in marriage with 2 kids. As I understand, he is also divorcing. There are no confirmed facts, just pure speculation based on scouting done by my female friends.
I doubt that there can be a successful relationship between her and that suspected OP as there is a significant year gap.
-----
Also, I f'ked up just now. Went to her parents house to pick my remaining things. Her dad opened the door and thought "this is the last time I see him" went through my mind. I thanked her parents as they were always good and friendly towards me. As I said my words, tears started pouring from my eyes. Not because of our situation with wife, but because I generally will miss her family. It was tough to say that goodbye, but I wanted to thank them for everything from the bottom of my heart.
I could see some tears in their eyes as well and they repeatedly said: "let's hope this is not the last time". They always respected me and considered me as a good guy from my nature and it's always tough to lose good people.
Mutual respect and love from both sides, but given their status in her life I probably went to far with my vulnerability. At least, I got to really show my appreciation and deep consideration for their efforts towards me over the years.
Everything ended with smiles and positive note. Even they said that I deserve someone who would be good to me and give me lots of love. I went out smiling and looking positively towards the next chapter.
How often do you see WAW coming back prior or after divorce? Especially if the "new life" does not go as planned?
I’m going to be completely honest with you. Your W has given you a gift by pulling the plug early. She in her mind made a big mistake and is not coming back. It doesn’t feel like it now but you are way better off dealing with this now then 15 years down the road when you have 3 kids a mortgage and she is full of resentment. Take some time and fix what you did wrong in the relationship. I see some self righteousness in your posts. That’s a good place to start. Trust me some day you will thank her.
How often do you see WAW coming back prior or after divorce? Especially if the "new life" does not go as planned?
I’m going to be completely honest with you. Your W has given you a gift by pulling the plug early. She in her mind made a big mistake and is not coming back. It doesn’t feel like it now but you are way better off dealing with this now then 15 years down the road when you have 3 kids a mortgage and she is full of resentment. Take some time and fix what you did wrong in the relationship. I see some self righteousness in your posts. That’s a good place to start. Trust me some day you will thank her.
I am asking because it would probably be more healthy if she did not try to comeback. However, every single friend or family member is saying: "just wait, she will come back when it's too late".
Could you elaborate how self righteousness is a good start? It probably killed this relationship.
Yes friends and family members don’t want to see you in pain so to ease the pain they say “ she’ll be begging to comeback etc”. It’s very common script. Could it happen? Yes. Plenty of statistics available on the internet.
Self righteousness is a very unattractive trait and I see it in some of your posts. This may be a good place to start. Maybe you disagree? What do you think happened that made your W want to terminate the marriage less then a year?
Self righteousness is a very unattractive trait and I see it in some of your posts. This may be a good place to start. Maybe you disagree? What do you think happened that made your W want to terminate the marriage less then a year?
Oh, sorry I missunderstood what you meant. Yes, fixing self righteousness is always a good place to start. Could you please point out some examples from my posts where you feel self righteousness? I am eager to learn from my shortfalls and would love to reflect on it.
It is hard to fully state what happened and why she would want to terminate marriage so quickly. I could probably summarize it with several words: "we got too comfortable". Additional quality time together would have helped, showing more emotional support to one another, less overreacting to uncomfortable situations. I try to be a honest and open person, I truly want to resolve issues as they come up and not maintain any grudges. Whereas she sometimes had avoidant tendencies, I should have been more flexible to give her space. Emotional safety is key.
Alternatively, there are two scenarios: affair or she is unhappy with her life overall. After BD, she repeated that she want to change everything in her life. During our whole relationship, there were instances where she said that she is unsure what she want from her life, switched friends, jobs and etc. She ended all of her relationships herself. Perhaps I simply could not fully satisfy all her needs and create true clarity for her life. Albeit, I believe partner can only support, but not point out the direction.
To be fully honest, I've read through 100's of stories for divorce in less than a year. 80-90% of them are either infidelity, physical abuse or depression/other mental disorders. Hope that this is not the case as I wish her true happiness.
My W finally took her things out of our house today. It was an interesting interaction as I was at home. Wife said she is sick and has physical pain, but she was very silent, I could hear sadness or unhappiness in her voice. As if life has been sucked out of her. Although she mentioned that she is fully happy right now.
I was calm, relaxed during the whole interaction. I was definitely more positive, upbeat and happy today. I got this negative vibe all the way from her, while I maintained polite and kind responses. Even helped her pack some of the things and helped to move things. After helping I received some semi-sarcastic words that she used to do these things only by herself and was fully cable of doing everything herself. Please note that I was not insisting on helping her, she asked me for help, while she was packing.
I asked a couple of questions how she is doing she did answer with one or two words. Many chaotic messages from her ranging from I love my job to I want to quit my job. From I am settling down and taking these things for my new home to I am going to leave the country and live somewhere else. Either she is hiding things from me or completely lost. She wants to change her whole life. Restart it.
I can see that whenever there is any potential glimpse of discussion on her emotions she immediately shuts down, gaslights or denies everything. As if she is running from them completely even after this time.
My wife noticed that I have done massive positive changes and I am on a good path to further enhance them. She can truly notice. Although she tried go "sell" me that this is why divorce is such a good thing for me. That everything is just perfect now. I just smiled as I will continue my personal growth with or without divorce. I am happy on my progress and even satisfied to do things on my own.
Also W said that I can now bring a new women since her stuff is gone. I remained truthful to my principles and responded: "Currently I am a married man and I am sticking to my core values and vows". She just laughed at it.
I believe my only single major slippage was asking how did we get from marriage & saying forever to this in a span of several months? She turned to me with complete apathy and said "oh well, such is life". At that moment I felt like only completely traumatized person would say these things in such a manner. I could only imagine myself showing no compassion or empathy in this way if the other person was physical abusing, cheating for years. Let me tell you, it is not the case.
Overall, I am pretty satisfied how I handled everything. I was polite, cheerful, helpful, respectful. I showed kindness even if I did not receive much back. I was the leader and bright beacon instead of playing a victim or blaming her for something. I simply wished her best luck with her life and showed that I can continue my life happily even without her. If I would be looking at our interaction from 3rd person angle, I would probably say that I was the one to initiate the divorce/living my life to the fullest and she was the sad, hurt person. I've seen her happy, I've seen her confident, I've seen her being satisfied with her life and choices. Today was not such day for her.
I do feel that I continue to heal in a good way. Typically during/after such meeting I would have a high heart rate and cry afterwards. Today I was totally fine during and after the meeting. Once she left I packed my stuff and went to my friends to have a spontaneous BBQ and wonderful time. Life is good when you decide to go with the flow and enjoy the little moments.
Read through this post and tell me if you see self righteousness and if you are being genuine. Maybe I’m wrong maybe I’m right.
Read through this post and tell me if you see self righteousness and if you are being genuine. Maybe I’m wrong maybe I’m right.
I am trying hard to understand the points with self righteousness. Most of the text for me was describing of my emotions or stating facts about her words/actions.
I could see these statements sounding self righteous:
"Either she is hiding things from me or completely lost. She wants to change her whole life. Restart it.
I can see that whenever there is any potential glimpse of discussion on her emotions she immediately shuts down, gaslights or denies everything. As if she is running from them completely even after this time."
Saying that she is lost might have given the wrong impression. I just meant that she is very undecisive. Was not intending to imply anything else. General idea was to emphasize that she does not want to discuss things & work on saving this marriage.
"If I would be looking at our interaction from 3rd person angle, I would probably say that I was the one to initiate the divorce/living my life to the fullest and she was the sad, hurt person."
I can see how this could sound cocky. We have been switching between this dumper/dumpee dynamic for a while. Sometimes she is shining and then completely silent/sad, sometimes its vice versa.
I genuinely felt good on that day and definitely received sarcastic/hurtful remarks. It is how I felt during that day and it felt good as before I was constantly questioning everything.
How often do you see WAW coming back prior or after divorce? Especially if the "new life" does not go as planned?
TMS, I don't like answering questions like this because the truth is that no one knows. Even if it's 90 out of 100 times (it isn't even close to that) your wife and your situation are unique and it's impossible to predict whether she'll be one to return or to stay gone for good. I always say, as long as there's breath in your bodies there's a chance she'll try to return eventually. That may be even after you've both moved on with other people
It would be better to decide what you want. You said it's better if she doesn't return. If that's true why wait?
As far as friends and family, be careful with their advice. They cannot guide you objectively. Likely the majority want to see you two back together, so that want will cause them to give you advice with that goal in mind. It's better if you don't even discuss it with friends and family. That's what IC is for. Friends and family should be supporting you emotionally, spending time with you to get your mind off of things. Not giving you advice. You can help them by saying "I don't want to talk about it" anytime the subject comes up.
Last edited by SteveLW; 04/22/2310:31 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I was asking it more out of a general curiosity rather than trying to keep my hopes. As days pass by I see less and less reason to take her back even if she did come back.
I have tried many times to listen and support her even after this whole thing, but I go denied most of the times. Either I am simply not in a stage in life where I can listen to her properly or it does not work. I assume if she at least wanted to work on us, she would have attended counselling. But she plainly refused any of my attempts to salvage this marriage. Since we do not have kids and there is not a single positive thing between us that could support hope, it's time to move on.
I am trying to learn my lessons, improve and become an attractive person once again.
Since she is taking these actions, I am actually starting to worry what other actions she might take. Will take to my lawyer once again. I thought it will be quite for some time.
You never know what they'll do, or not do. You can't worry about what she's doing or why. You can't control what she does, thinks or feels and there's no point in wasting your time trying too.
Stay focused on yourself and what you can control.
Me: 40 EX:37 Together 17 years Married 16 years 5 kids, 20,18,15,14,11
Detaching is starting to progress in a nice direction. Received an e-mail from her today, read it, closed it and went to continue my date. To be honest, previously I would start overthinking and probably respond something.
Dead silence from both sides continues. I see her constantly checking my social media photos. I assume that she just wants to keep tabs on me, if she wanted she would reach it.
It's a bit strange to have this silence, but I am slowly getting used to it.
Which one of the DBing rules were you following? Who did you invite after that? Did they accept? If no one, did you go anyway?
I am sure I know the answers. None. No one. No.
Flip the script. Make a decision to do something. The more exciting the better. Plan on doing it alone. Be excited about it. Be mysterious is one of the DBing tools. Do not be boring. She thinks she knows you. She left that guy. Prove her wrong, she does not know you at all. The new you should be a shinny new penny. Enjoy the ride.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Which one of the DBing rules were you following? Who did you invite after that? Did they accept? If no one, did you go anyway?
I am sure I know the answers. None. No one. No.
Flip the script. Make a decision to do something. The more exciting the better. Plan on doing it alone. Be excited about it. Be mysterious is one of the DBing tools. Do not be boring. She thinks she knows you. She left that guy. Prove her wrong, she does not know you at all. The new you should be a shinny new penny. Enjoy the ride.
Actually I went for a walk myself. I am walking 7-10km these days to relax and unwind after work. Planning to go on walk with one friend tomorrow and then another walk with a friend on Thursday. Probably one of the reasons of divorce is not that I am just sitting around doing nothing, but I am actually too busy in life. I am reading a book and I've read that the average person watches around 4 hours of TV/Netflix a day. I can not actually remember the last time I watched something after BD. We used to watch things together before BD, but I am busy living these days.
One thing I keep seeing is people stating that you have to be mysterious and change during no contact period. How will she know if you are the shinny new penny or the old guy if it's complete silence? Even if she is checking my socials, they are quite vague and mostly other people are in my pictures, not me.
I get comments from everyone that I look better, that I am improving mentally and emotionally. My dad had a lot of criticism on me at BD, but now he is proud of where I am heading. I hope to continue my journey for improvement.
Please do not get me wrong, I am not actively trying to save the marriage, but I think it is worth keeping some hope. Please guide me if I am wrong. I am a slow learner, but I learn.
How will she know if you are the shinny new penny or the old guy if it's complete silence?
Lets flip that. Lets say you were with a woman and you rate her at a 5. A year later of her working out, eating healthy, seeing an IC, she has more stylish clothes, acts much happier etc...you now find her much more attractive..a solid 8.
You just know.
For us guys, you can work on looks maxing, but in my opinion, improving your behaviors is more important.
Originally Posted by TellMeSo
I get comments from everyone that I look better, that I am improving mentally and emotionally. My dad had a lot of criticism on me at BD, but now he is proud of where I am heading. I hope to continue my journey for improvement.
YUP, just focus on you and your personal growth. Dig deep into attraction and seduction. Know the difference. Each has its time and place.
Originally Posted by TellMeSo
Please do not get me wrong, I am not actively trying to save the marriage, but I think it is worth keeping some hope. Please guide me if I am wrong. I am a slow learner, but I learn.
Saving the marriage is an indirect action. You save it my not trying to save it. You give it your best shot by addressing all of YOUR issues. The issues that YOU identify as needing change. Have faith and hope. Keep moving forward. Don't be boring.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
One thing I keep seeing is people stating that you have to be mysterious and change during no contact period. How will she know if you are the shinny new penny or the old guy if it's complete silence? Even if she is checking my socials, they are quite vague and mostly other people are in my pictures, not me.
I get comments from everyone that I look better, that I am improving mentally and emotionally. My dad had a lot of criticism on me at BD, but now he is proud of where I am heading. I hope to continue my journey for improvement.
Please do not get me wrong, I am not actively trying to save the marriage, but I think it is worth keeping some hope. Please guide me if I am wrong. I am a slow learner, but I learn.
Thank you.
TMS, if the last paragraph is true, then who cares if she knows? It's her loss. Go out and live your best life like you're doing. If she somehow knows that (and trust me, she probably knows more than you think), and gets curious, great. If not, great too since the new TMS is out crushing life without her!
DBing is about saving yourself. Sometimes the marriage comes along for the ride. Sometimes it doesn't. Either way you'll be just fine. Even better than fine, you'll be awesome.
Last edited by SteveLW; 05/10/2312:30 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
R2C and Steve have given EXCELLENT advice on this page (page 8).
Study it carefully.
You may THINK you're detached, but the simple fact that you asked her to walk, she said no and you came here about it - suggests you are a long way off.
That’s not a criticism… just an observation. It takes a LONG time to achieve detachment, it’s a grind that you need to remain committed to.
Thank you. I look at detachment slightly differently - she no longer occupies my head and does not live there rent free. Yes, occasionally she pops up in the head, but so does my previous exes.
At first, I came here for emotional support. Now, I come here to tell about my journey and seek advice on how to better myself. Once she said no on the walk, I did not feel disappointed where as before I would be sad about it. For me, this is detachment. Her decisions not affecting my emotional well-being.
Maybe I am wrong.
I guess she will see my appearance changes through my social media as she continues to watch every single piece of content I put on the web.
I am in a strange place right now. Even if I want to be emphatic and justify her actions, I believe that it would be too toxic to continue this marriage. On another side, it's strange to realize that this marriage coming to an end so soon.
What made you realize that you have fully detached/moved on?
What made you realize that you have fully detached/moved on?
"One day, you wake up and realize that you haven't thought about it at all."-Mike-Better Call Saul
As time goes by, we detach more and more. It comes and goes. I still have triggers. This site does bring up things for me, and I get to process them through thinking and responding.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
What made you realize that you have fully detached/moved on?
"One day, you wake up and realize that you haven't thought about it at all."-Mike-Better Call Saul
As time goes by, we detach more and more. It comes and goes. I still have triggers. This site does bring up things for me, and I get to process them through thinking and responding.
Thanks, I had another fun night yesterday with friends. I definitely have days were I have not thought about it all, but then surges of small emotions comes back sometimes.
Being detached isn’t a definitive line in the sand, where you can suddenly say you’ve done it.
It’s a slow, gradual process. You’ll never be completely without this person. They’re part of your history.
I knew I was detached when I began to feel sorry for my ex. At that point, I knew that none of her dumb decisions and outcomes were my problem. I could simultaneously feel sad for the complete train wreck of her life and future, but happily walk with my kids in the complete opposite direction.
Being detached isn’t a definitive line in the sand, where you can suddenly say you’ve done it.
It’s a slow, gradual process. You’ll never be completely without this person. They’re part of your history.
I knew I was detached when I began to feel sorry for my ex. At that point, I knew that none of her dumb decisions and outcomes were my problem. I could simultaneously feel sad for the complete train wreck of her life and future, but happily walk with my kids in the complete opposite direction.
Interesting What do you consider dumb decisions?
We had another discussion yesterday with STBXW. Nothing has changed, she has no feelings, wants to quit asap and feels that she was not herself for the entire stint of our relationship. Basically, she is done and nothing will change that. She even said herself that she knew how much marriage & family meant to me and still decided to quit as "we never had a chance". Hearing these words no longer hurts as much as before. I only wish she would have pulled the plug before the wedding.
I have to continue my own path and move on. I heard a beautiful line lately:
It's about become the right person, not finding one. Hopefully I can take my lessons from this, become better and create a true loving family.
I actually wanted to take a moment and thank you all for being there for me. Even thought, I am not doing DB'ing 100% right and sometimes not fully following the advice, I truly get lots of inspiration from this forum and everyone who helped me.
I would have definitely been in a worse state if it were not for everyone who supported me in this forum.
Please continue to challenge me and allow me to become the right person. Sending hugs and my deepest thank you to everyone!
I have killed it at work lately and significantly deepened my connection with friends and family as a result of this. I am planning to go on several big trips this summer to fully reset myself. Hopefully this will allow me to minimise the contact with W and enjoy the summer.
TMS, with that attitude you're going to be fine no matter what the outcome!! You've got this.
Thank you! This is so appreciated!
I met with several friends today (two different meetings), it boosted my emotional state a lot. I am so grateful to have all people around me and everyone here support me.
As my friend said today: "you attract the people you deserve". I have not felt as alive as today in a while!
Even after having fun time with my friends, I still managed to close the day with some fun play with my dog!
Amaziiing weekend! Met with 2 different friends on Friday, had an absolute blast discussing life, business and our passions! Walked 20km with friends on Saturday. Finally spent the whole day today alone with my dog, just running, playing around near the river, while the sun was shining. It was great! I had this one moment, my dog is running back to me, sun is shining and you know that you are living the life.
I had this one moment, my dog is running back to me, sun is shining and you know that you are living the life.
I love it!
Life provides feedback. A karmic handshake with us. Positive and forgiving begets same. We truly are the artisan of our reality and, to an extent, our destiny.
Keep walking the path TMS.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
There is still one question that bothers me a bit. Was there another person involved or not? She is stating that she does not have anyone. I tend to trust her words, but everyone is saying that I am naive.
How often do women come out and admit to actual affair if there is one?
For example, even last week she was stating that she never felt appreciated, this relationship did not bring the best out of her or that I only cared/loved when I knew I will lose her/once she lost hope. I then asked if there is someone else who gives this to her and she replied: "I don't know" instead of yes or no.
She stated that we were not spending enough quality time together, but when I reminded that I begged to go on trips and attend some hobbies, I received: "but we were busy".
"It will be easier if you blame me for being coldhearted" - she said. It felt as if she is hurting and she admitted that time has to pass for her wounds to heal.
Would you say that these are the words that an unhappy spouse would typically say or a person who might be having an affair?
And another question, is amicable D even possible? What does is say about each spouse (dumper/dumpee) if they don't want amicable ending?
So I’ll ask the question. What changes if there is an affair? What happened to validating her feelings instead of being argumentative? Was this a common theme in your short marriage? Why can’t it be amicable? Would making it not amicable bring you closer to your goal or further away?
So I’ll ask the question. What changes if there is an affair? What happened to validating her feelings instead of being argumentative? Was this a common theme in your short marriage? Why can’t it be amicable? Would making it not amicable bring you closer to your goal or further away?
It would allow me to detach further if there was an affair. It helps to stop idealizing the person. I can not justify cheating, ever.
There was no common theme as there was no good amount of time in marriage.
Whenever I try to show empathy towards her or try to maintain warm communication on D or other topics, I get negative responses. Especially if there is something I can not fully agree with. I want it to be amicable. It would definitely help with my goal of trying to be a decent human being and (ex-)husband.
It would be nice if all those years were remembered as good memories rather than hurtful ending/times.
Assume she’s cheating if it makes it easier to detach.
She’s going to remain cold until you back off. She doesn’t want to give you false hope.
In time she will remember more good than bad.
I trust your words. Back to full no contact.
If you followed my thread, my 'as if' attitude actually made W happy because she thought I was completely on board with the D. Now, I assume she is cheating, and I talk to her as I would the clerk at the local convience store.
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
It's just a strange coincidence.