My last post: She called me on separation docs. Voice was sad and she said she would be thankful if I would sign them.
Told her I am busy and she does not need my signature or presence in this. Then proceeded to finish the call and go hangout with my friends.
Sometimes it feels that she wants my support in these actions as she does not have the full strength to end this. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Continuing on it. I told her today that I am not signing these proposed documents (they give me no benefit), she immediately started asking why and cornering me into signing it "this is good for you, not only me" type of pushing. I definitely felt a lot of manipulation and pressure.
I got many phrases like: "Is this revenge?" "This is exactly the reason why I want to divorce you" "You are acting immature and childish" "You are stopping me from living my life" "You trapped me for our whole relationship" "I no longer trust you" "I just can not communicate or do it with you" "You are too much for me to handle"
I tried to keep my cool, stated many times that I am not intentionally trying to destroy her plans, I am just protecting myself. That I am willing to cooperate if is not pressuring me so much.
Then she told me that I am still trying to get her back. Even thought, I have not mentioned anything about it and even said that my happiness does not revolve only around her. I will be content and satisfied even if we are truly done, but I am not initiating divorce and I would have preferred to give this marriage a chance.
She asked me for arguments why I don't sign it, I did not give it at first. She got mad. Then I gave it to her. Again she just laughed and still was mad. Then she started threatening to take her things from our home. I just said fine, you are free to take your things.
I tried hard to understand her position and validate it. However, she is still insisting that I do not understand her and this is exactly why we should get divorce. For example, I said that "I can really see that you want to divorce and get this process done. It probably is frustrating for you. I will cooperate and help to ease your pain if it does not ruin my own values & interests". Then she immediately said you don't get me and I want divorce.
I feel way more detached than before, as this pressure did not touch me too much emotionally. If before I would question myself, perhaps I truly pressured her too much or manipulated her. This conversation gave me new perspective, that it might not only be me who is presumably manipulative.
I could be reading wrong between the lines, but some statements even made me question whether this whole thing was a way to keep me in the loop and keep me pursuing. There was definitely this vibe of trying to provoke me into saying that I still care about her or desperately need her in my life. Especially the threats about taking her stuff or not talking to me anymore. Or asking for my permission / presence when she will collect her stuff. I did it the past, but I learned my lessons and I am trying to avoid any pursuing.
I told her that you can sign those docs on her own. She was mad, but did not confirm if she will do it.
I need to continue working on my validation skills as there are still high bursts of pain/hate coming from her. Even if she does not admit it.
To me it seems that she is in so much pain that she wants to stop it badly immediately. She is fully projecting it on to me and I am becoming the single reason for all of her problems. Does the pain truly stop with the divorce? "I am fully happy with my decision" was repeated several times by her.
I repeatedly said that such pressure won't do it with me. I am stepping back, taking my time and space. For her, but more importantly for ME.
To me it seems that she is in so much pain that she wants to stop it badly immediately. She is fully projecting it on to me and I am becoming the single reason for all of her problems. Does the pain truly stop with the divorce?
YUP
and
the pain will not change with the divorce as the marriage is just a casualty of the divorce war. Her root cause of pain is anyone other that the real cause - ie - point the finger at herself.
I think you did well - continue to follow your lawyers advice.
the pain will not change with the divorce as the marriage is just a casualty of the divorce war. Her root cause of pain is anyone other that the real cause - ie - point the finger at herself.
I think you did well - continue to follow your lawyers advice.
I imagine you have seen many of these situations. What happens when you divorce, refuse to look at yourself? What happens then?
I actually got a different perspective from my friend. She said that I did bad because we kept discussing things, while my wife only wanted to get arguments why I don't want to sign.
I'm not fully feeling it since even when I gave what she wanted, it still was not enough to satisfy her.
TellMeSo, I think it wise to give some time and reflect more on the interaction while giving yourself a break. That wasn’t easy was it.
I am learning more about validation, listening, seeking to understand. I think you could do better/learn from this interaction and consider how you have handled these things in the past and where you want to go in the future.
You said,
“ I tried to keep my cool, stated many times that I am not intentionally trying to destroy her plans, I am just protecting myself. That I am willing to cooperate if is not pressuring me so much.
Then she told me that I am still trying to get her back. Even thought, I have not mentioned anything about it and even said that my happiness does not revolve only around her. I will be content and satisfied even if we are truly done, but I am not initiating divorce and I would have preferred to give this marriage a chance.
She asked me for arguments why I don't sign it, I did not give it at first. She got mad. Then I gave it to her. Again she just laughed and still was mad. Then she started threatening to take her things from our home. I just said fine, you are free to take your things.
I tried hard to understand her position and validate it. However, she is still insisting that I do not understand her and this is exactly why we should get divorce. For example, I said that "I can really see that you want to divorce and get this process done. It probably is frustrating for you. I will cooperate and help to ease your pain if it does not ruin my own values & interests". Then she immediately said you don't get me and I want divorce. ”
This could be true, accurate and fair and important ways for you to communicate your boundaries and intentions, but,
“ Then she told me that I am still trying to get her back” Are you? In what ways might that be your hope/expectation that is influencing your actions, communication and way of being with her?
and,
“ I tried hard to understand her position and validate it. However, she is still insisting that I do not understand her and this is exactly why we should get divorce. For example, I said that "I can really see that you want to divorce and get this process done. It probably is frustrating for you. I will cooperate and help to ease your pain if it does not ruin my own values & interests". Then she immediately said you don't get me and I want divorce.” Do you? Get her? Do you want to try to imagine and understand things from her experience ?
I am asking these questions of you to stimulate thought and reflection and I have been asking them of myself.
Recently I took in a webinar from Terry Real that helped me consider these things in new ways. From that I reflected on a conversation where W told me about S, “This (our M breakdown) is not about him. he doesn’t know what it has been like in our marriage,” I thought I validated ok at the time. Then later I thought actually I don’t know what it has been like for W in our M.
This could be true, accurate and fair and important ways for you to communicate your boundaries and intentions, but,
“ Then she told me that I am still trying to get her back” Are you? In what ways might that be your hope/expectation that is influencing your way of being with her?
Thank you, Rockon. No, I am past the point where I want to get her back. At least not actively. That's exactly the point, I have clearly communicated that I will not be doing active pursuing any longer and I am fine with any outcome. Does it mean that if she told me let's try again, I wouldn't try? I would mostly like would, but I am not going to her and continue offering it anymore. I can not be choosing someone who does not choose me back. Even if I still love her, it is not enough to have a striving relationship. And if I love her, I wish her be truly happy (with or without me). Above all, I have to consider myself, my growth & satisfaction.
Originally Posted by Rockon
“ I tried hard to understand her position and validate it. However, she is still insisting that I do not understand her and this is exactly why we should get divorce. For example, I said that "I can really see that you want to divorce and get this process done. It probably is frustrating for you. I will cooperate and help to ease your pain if it does not ruin my own values & interests". Then she immediately said you don't get me and I want divorce.” Do you? Get her? Do you want to try to imagine and understand things from her experience ?
I am asking these questions of you to stimulate thought and reflection and I have been asking them of myself.
I definitely do not get her at this time. I get that she wants quick divorce and technical details, but I do not understand her inner world. She comes back, then disappears for two weeks, then again comes back/leaves and so on. It's a toxic cycle for both of us. It's truly hard to understand what is fully happening.
I have tried to imagine and understand things from her experience. I continued trying for the past 4 months. Even my friends were saying why are you defending her. Just... Whenever I try to get closer, she runs away. Such tendencies are not only now, but even when we were still fully together.
I have imagined how hard this is for her many times. How difficult of a path she choose. I told her many times, but typically I get a response that she is totally happy and this is nonsense.
Whenever I try to get closer, she runs away. Such tendencies are not only now, but even when we were still fully together.
Have you read the pursuit and distance thread?
It perfectly explains this.
I did. That's exactly why I told my friend that there was more to this whole conversation, then just my wife trying to get technical details on our divorce. She kept talking to me for too long just for technical details (I kept talking too long as well).
2 weeks ago, I told her that I will no longer be actively pursuing her. I'm done. Stayed completely silent for 2 weeks. Then this week she started bombing me with these agreements, calls and messages.
Again, she has been promising to take her stuff for more than a month now. No actual action. After I set boundaries today, she again told me she will get her stuff. The way she phrased it was textbook example of her wanting to get me to pursue her. As if she wanted to hear "oh no, please don't. let's try again, why rush?".
