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#2944690 03/31/23 02:21 AM
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I’ve been reading posts here for the past few days. Stumbled across the “Odds and Ends of MLC: Link” thread and my jaw nearly dropped to the floor. Felt I could have been writing so many of these words from my own recent experiences. The “Three Lessons” posts by ‘Tom K’ were particularly uncanny. Is it MLC? WAS? Does it matter? Probably not but after 4 months of hell I figure I could use some support…

W and I are in our late-30s. No kids. We have been together for 10 years and married for 7. She was my best friend and I believed we had a great marriage and incredible future. We have been through a lot together. We met in a different country. W joined me in current country around 6 years ago. We spend more time apart than many couples due to W’s work which is travel-based with headquarters in a different city. But we have always spent loads of quality time together. Of course no one thinks something like this will happen but until recently I believed us to be as connected as any couple I know.

No marriage is perfect but we didn’t have any major recurring relationship issues or personal issues that may lead to marital issues. Of course we had disagreements at times as all couples do but always worked together to resolve them. The biggest change in our lives happened 2 years ago when I graduated from professional school and we to a new city where I began my career after many years of study. We loved our new home and the opportunity for adventure in the surrounding area. The move also brought challenges 1) stress of navigating the beginning of a demanding profession for me 2) longer job-related travel for W.

BD was in November. W sat down and “out of the blue” started talking about how unhappy she was - I wasn’t working out enough. I wasn't engaging in hobbies. I wasn't doing enough around the house. I was stressed with work. I didn’t buy tickets to an event that I should have known she wanted to attend... Suddenly she was talking about our relationship in the past tense. I had no idea what was happening nor how to make sense of it. At the end of the conversation I suggested that we start MC straight away and that I could start addressing all of these concerns immediately. Her response was to sleep on it. I was in shock. The following days were filled with tension but we spent them all together. No more talk of BD. A few days later I took her to the airport to get her to work and a previously planned trip to see family friends in a different country. No clue what was on her mind – too scared to ask.

One week later she told me she needed space and asked that I not message/call. Two weeks later she returned and gave me the classic “ILYBINILWY”. She told me she was going to leave again and spend the holidays back with the family friends and was also hoping to get leave from work in January.

She ended up being gone over the holidays for a total of 6 weeks. We did a few online MC sessions but it was clear her intention was to invalidate the R rather than work on it. The timeline of W’s unhappiness kept going further back in time. The reasons for unhappiness continually shifted and seemed to get increasingly ‘trivial’. Some issues were blown way out of proportion and others were invented out of whole cloth. A month into her absence W told me she planned to move to the city where her work is headquartered. W admitted she had not thought about any logistical pieces such as getting own bank account, credit cards, etc… At the end of the 6 weeks she came home to “pack her things”. W asked me to pick her up at the airport and I obliged but found the request out of alignment with her stated intention. We had an R talk the first night she was back. Home for 4 nights. We spent them together - eating dinner together, watching TV together. Tension and no intimacy but she was smiling, laughing at jokes. No more R talks. W didn’t end up packing anything. W didn't acknowledge having not packed anything but said moving a few items out of shared bathroom was challenging enough. I was beyond confused.

My confusion peaked about a week following this event and some text messages W sent in the meantime. I called and asked what was actually happening. W said she was sorry and wanted to talk but couldn’t talk on the phone because it was too painful. W came home the next week. When asked what the intentions to return home were (i.e. to talk? to talk and pack things?) W stated she couldn’t say and just wanted to talk in person. On the first night we had another R talk. She said she wanted to separate but wasn’t certain she wanted the R to end. She said we needed to talk to a MC again. She packed her things the next few days and put them all into one room. On the final night at home W cried and said she was sorry. Said she was confused. Asked me to give her a break. Asked me for a ride to the airport the next morning.

She took more time off work and went back to her safe zone in the other country. 1 week later - after having sent some messages that felt like connection - she sent me an email with more new reasons for her unhappiness and said she wanted to “live separately and then separate when the time comes.”

2 weeks later we had an MC session. She still couldn't say the D word but when asked if that's what she wanted she said yes. This was the first time she stated a clear intention of wanting to end the R. W blamed me for not having understood this long ago despite her never having said it and all the mixed signals. She seemed cold and angry - convinced that I have done her wrong. I said I don’t believe D is the right path for us but I understand she feels this way. I stated clearly that she would have to file the D. That I will not try to stonewall or avoid but that I will not initiate something that I don’t have a clear conscience about. She says she doesn’t think now is the right time to get lawyers involved - "maybe in a couple of months'. We have had no contact for a week -- the longest period of time since BD. I realize this the only path forward at this point.

Wrap up
In hindsight I wish I had done many things differently. However, I can honestly say that since the BD I have not been ‘actively’ pursuing or pleading. I have been focusing on myself and have learned/grown a lot personally. I see that despite great patience in my moments of peak confusion when W came home and was unable to say that she wanted the R to end I tried to rationalize/understand in a way that was very much felt as pressure by her. I imagine the pressure felt very intense. I’ve realized throughout that W was acting purely from emotion with no logic whatsoever but I did not have a comprehensive view that this forum has given me. I am now working to detach. I’m preparing myself for what I think is more inevitable confusion to come. I welcome the support of this group going forward.

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Hello URS0

Welcome to the board. I am pasting Cadet’s welcome post for your reference. Please read the links, they contain lots of useful information.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/sb_the_divorce_remedy.htm


A few other books by MWD:

http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm


And Michele's articles.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm


Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.

When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.

Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.

Post on other people’s thread to give support.

Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

DnJ

Last edited by DnJ; 03/31/23 10:47 AM. Reason: Corrected link.

Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Hello U

I am sorry the rug was pulled out from under you.

It definitely sounds like your W is experiencing some deep emotional turmoil or crisis. As you have seen, her path will be driven by her emotions. She will project fault(s) upon you, for while consumed in her emotional torment she cannot handle being wrong. And yes, at times those faults can be rather trivial, petty, or just made up. One of my XW’s justifications for her exodus from our 26 year marriage and 31 year relationship, was that the furnace vent blew air on her.

Currently you are her target of what’s wrong; the reason for her unhappiness.

Give her time and space. In time, hopefully she will realize that “hey, URS hasn’t been bothering me for a while, and yet I’m still unhappy.” Then with some good fortune she might start to consider that she is the cause of her unhappiness, and she will start to look inward instead of blaming you, friends, family, the world.

You did good stating you don’t want a divorce and she is to do the heavy lifting. There is no point repeating that. And no relationship talks, those will just push her away.

Keep pressure to a minimum. Her emotions are cranked to eleven and she cannot handle much of anything else. Pressure, stress, and such; and she will run.

Focus on you. Work towards detachment. GAL.

You have the gift of time, use it wisely.

I look forward to conversing with you.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


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Welcome to a great place for support.

Originally Posted by URS0
....my jaw nearly dropped to the floor. Felt I could have been writing so many of these words from my own recent experiences....I figure I could use some support…....I’m preparing myself for what I think is more inevitable confusion to come. I welcome the support of this group going forward.
Everyone here has written almost the same open post, with just difference in the "non-important" details.

It appears to me that you are further ahead in dealing with this rationally than most new posters. If this site is triage for marriage, you are not bleeding as bad as most. With that said, you have lots of personal growth work to do.

It is like a big onion. Many layers. Peel off the big easy layers first. We will talk in generals, but we need specifics from you to be able to effectively help you.

For example, I believe that it is extremely important for you to change the way you interact with her, as well as the way you interact with others. Your behavior in general can also be improved. For you to know what to change, you needed to take a hard look at yourself and do a lot of research into attraction (as well as other topics).

You have qualities that women in general find attractive and other qualities that women find unattractive. Pretty easy to drop the unattractive behaviors, if you are aware they are unattractive. Then you can start adding new behaviors that you don't have that make you more attractive.

Go down the rabbit hole researching attraction. Understand how women test their men and learn how to pass the tests. Understand how supplicating a woman will destroy her attraction for her man.


If you read enough here, you can get yourself way ahead of her and predict everything she will do, and have a better way to respond than if you move ahead unprepared. Read as many of these quotes as you can, as quickly as you can:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2943653#Post2943653

As you go through this, you will get conflicting advise. For each decision you have to make, get as many options as you can so you can make an educated decision. Make your choice, and live with the consequences of that choice, good or bad. What worked for one poster may backfire for another, and what backfired for one poster may work for another. What works is counter intuitive. For example, most initially believe that talking things out will work, but my observation is that the opposite works better.

I wish you well during this difficult season of your life.

And one last thing, Don't be boring.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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DnJ, Cadet, & R2C - thank you for the welcome messages.

W texted me today for the first time in a week asking about possible dates to come home and move packed things out of our home. Using our home as a storage facility until a more convenient time was a boundary violation for me in the absence of a framework to work on the relationship in the meantime.

I'm under no illusion there is some perfect response. It is just strange for me as this is the first time I have received a message since having changed gears to detaching. I don't want to respond but I know that is childish. I guess a simple "yes, that works" will do.

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URS0,
Sorry you are here but you are in good hands.
Things are always quieter here at weekend - people GAL.
'Yes' sounds like the perfect response to me but I am not an expert in these things

What are you doing this weekend?

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Originally Posted by URS0
a simple "yes, that works" will do.
I agree.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Good Morning U

Your proposed reply to W regarding what day to pick up her things is fine.

Are you planning on being present?

Is she currently living in a different city? Is she flying in again? If so, it’s highly unlikely she will be packing up / taking much stuff.

Do you and her have separate accounts, credit cards, etc? Is the house owned, mortgage, or rented? How much are each of you paying towards the house and bills? What about her living expenses while separated? How much of your finances are joint?

It’s necessary for one to have a good picture of their financial situation. How much risk they are assuming. You may have already prepared (as much as one can), and do not need to take any further current actions to ensure your financial security and protection.

Have you spoken to a lawyer yet? If not, do so. Knowledge is power. This is for information only. You need not act upon anything. However, you will learn where you stand. What the default is, what is negotiable, and what is not. And do not tell W. Keep this information to yourself. For the time being, W is not on team URS, she is on her own team.

You are walking two paths. One is the business side of things. The finances, money and assets, as you have no custody issues. When dealing with business, remain business-like.

The other path is one of emotions, of healing and becoming whole. Becoming the best version of yourself. A man only a fool would leave. This is the bulk of one’s journey.

Hope you having a great Saturday.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Hey DnJ,

Originally Posted by DnJ
Are you planning on being present?
D

It's a couple weeks away but as of now I do. She will be in town for a few days; not certain if she is staying in our home again or somewhere else. I have a better understanding of the circumstances now and am therefore in a position to not get emotionally caught up in what I previously interpreted as "confusion". With this in mind, I think it is wiser for me to stay in our home than to "flee".

Originally Posted by DnJ
Is she currently living in a different city? Is she flying in again? If so, it’s highly unlikely she will be packing up / taking much stuff.
D

Yes, flying in from a different city several thousand miles away. She has packed most of her personal items. No clue how many shared items she will want to pack. As you stated I assume relatively few. I get the sense she is not ready/willing to encounter the heaviness that accompanies the necessary discussions to pack/take items that are more clearly mutually owned.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Do you and her have separate accounts, credit cards, etc? Is the house owned, mortgage, or rented? How much are each of you paying towards the house and bills? What about her living expenses while separated? How much of your finances are joint?
D

Accounts have been separated as of about 3 weeks. Removed her as an authorized user on credit cards. The house is rented. I am staying in the home and plan to pay for the relevant expenses at this point. Frankly, my income is an order of magnitude higher than hers. Her expenses are her own at this point. The last real separation that needs to happen is for her to get a separate cell phone plan. I've asked her to do this a couple weeks ago. If she has not completed this by the time she comes to get her things I will review this with her in person. I suppose an alternative is to simply remove her from our plan without any further comment.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Have you spoken to a lawyer yet?
D

No, I have plans to do this very soon

Thanks for the insights.

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