Going dark feels like pressure

[marching]

Bat, I hear you defending H a lot even though he's treating you poorly. I see you accepting this poor treatment but it's still HIS fault that he's behaving this way. He's the one making these hurtful choices. I don't think it was manipulative of you to ask him whether he will come back.

Just because he says he isn't happy, or even "heartbroken," doesn't mean he can just do whatever he wants. You are in a relationship and your needs matter too, Bat. I still think he's being manipulative. And he's gaslighting you because he's trying to normalize his cheating and possibly even have a child (!!!!!) with OW. The idea of using OW as a baby-maker so he can have a mixed-race child is so messed in so many ways. It's also delusional that he thinks having a child in this way would somehow earn him the respect of others. Bat, why do you want to be with a person who treats women like this?

[Bat]

Bat, I hear you defending H a lot even though he's treating you poorly. I see you accepting this poor treatment but it's still HIS fault that he's behaving this way. He's the one making these hurtful choices. I don't think it was manipulative of you to ask him whether he will come back.

Just because he says he isn't happy, or even "heartbroken," doesn't mean he can just do whatever he wants. You are in a relationship and your needs matter too, Bat. I still think he's being manipulative. And he's gaslighting you because he's trying to normalize his cheating and possibly even have a child (!!!!!) with OW. The idea of using OW as a baby-maker so he can have a mixed-race child is so messed in so many ways. It's also delusional that he thinks having a child in this way would somehow earn him the respect of others. Bat, why do you want to be with a person who treats women like this?

If it told the story another way, that he found someone else and fell in love, and had to leave me also because I can’t have kids and he wants a family, then people would be supportive to him. Understanding that he wants a child. And if then after let’s say 1-2-3 years he would come back to me, also people would understand and think it’s romantic. But by being honest about it that this outcome is a possible script, then suddenly it’s messed up. I am the one pushing and outing these endless scripts and scenarios. He prefers to just “see what the future will bring”. I just know him and all of his dark thoughts too well.
Why I think the most likely scenario is no happily ever after with OW? A) he nevers expressed this, always talks about coming back to me, or staying with her for maybe a year and then move on alone if I don’t want him back or moving on to OW2 b) I know the stress and responsibility of a child is too much for him. He needs her to “pull the wagon” and be mainly responsible for dealing with things like school, financial and social things. I am not able to pull the wagon and that’s why it’s better for the two of us not to have a child. He would love to be a weekend dad, doing mainly the fun things and leave daily responsibility to her. This is not being lazy, there are reasons why we both are not able to do this in a normal way.

I am the one being open about this possibility, H wants it but knows it’s not ethical to use her as a baby maker and doesn’t want to say things like this out loud. She is not the innocent little girl looking for love. She was on international dating sites, talked and met up with several men from “first world countries”. She traveled to usa to see where she would like to live and had a well thought plan including climate, job, housing. She even applied for a green card. H seems to be plan b, as usa didn’t work out and a guy from down under didn’t either. Also her social media suggests she tried before. She’s almost 40, so a child would be her last chance too. So she would benefit from the situation more, in fulfilling her dream of moving to Europe and last chance at a child.

H would be a very good weekend father and give everything. It’s only hurting himself that responsibility for financial things is hard, he would never leave his child or hurt it in any way.

[BL42]

Bat,

If it told the story another way, that he found someone else and fell in love, and had to leave me also because I can’t have kids and he wants a family, then people would be supportive to him.

Ummm...no. I know it hurts, but he is cheating on you. That's not acceptable behavior in a marriage regardless of how badly one wants children.

Understanding that he wants a child.

Not sure you specific circumstances, but do know there are lot of ways to have children which don't include sleeping with another woman. Adoption, fostering, IVF, sperm bank, surrogacy...etc, etc.

And if then after let’s say 1-2-3 years he would come back to me, also people would understand and think it’s romantic.

Not sure who would think this is romantic.

Why I think the most likely scenario is no happily ever after with OW?

That IS the most likely scenario. However, it doesn't mean he'll come back to you. Did you read my summary of ExW w/OM1 and OM2? It's not uncommon. Plus, it doesn't mean you should accept the behavior.

A) he nevers expressed this, always talks about coming back to me

Do not believe their WORDS. Believe their actions.

, or staying with her for maybe a year and then move on alone if I don’t want him back or moving on to OW2 b) I know the stress and responsibility of a child is too much for him.

Bat, you're focusing way too much on H and OW. Your best path is to move forward for yourself in the opposite direction as H.

Bat, Are you in IC? We see plenty of people on here hoping their spouse and AP break up, but rarely see anyone hoping their H has a baby with OW and then returns to them in a year or two.

What are you doing for yourself? E.g., exercise, GAL, friends, hobbies, support, IC...etc.?

[Bat]

And to answer your question, or comment about gaining respect.
His parents would have respect for the fact that he would have a child. No matter how this child came into the world. They’re probably going to be more interested in reconnecting with him.
H was in IC a few years back, asking questions about the meaning of life and the answer he got was; to reproduce is the only purpose in life.
Then it’s also fuelled by happy family pictures on social media, and people telling him that life starts with having kids. That you don’t know anything until you have a child.
His best friend having one is the last event on this subject. Now H feels he is the only one missing out and left out.
So that’s why I said gaining respect. Not by taking this route, but by having a child.

[DnJ]

Hello B

The lack of respect H feels due to not having a child sounds to be driven by his up bringing. I am pretty sure there are some cultural tendencies as well, however his parents, his outlooks, his meaning of/for life sounds more from family of origin issues. Or is this need for a child, a common force/factor within the population?

H was in IC a few years back, asking questions about the meaning of life and the answer he got was; to reproduce is the only purpose in life.

Here, for many folks, yes children are meaningful and give life meaning. However, reproducing is not the one and only purpose in life.

Differences in culturally accepted behaviours aside…

And if then after let’s say 1-2-3 years he would come back to me…

3 years. Maybe more. That’s a long time to wait.

I came to this board because I think here are people who understand I don’t want to let go. I can do my own thing for a while yes, even if it takes years.

I do understand. No one wants to let go in the beginning. Realize, this journey is counterintuitive. Doing the best/right thing often feels wrong; until you figure out the why of it.

To do your own thing is going to require you focusing on you. GAL. Living your life. And letting go of H.

Now, that’s a lot to tackle right out of the gate. Know, this path starts with small steps. Find some real life friends. Work. Do some hobbies. Talk with IC. Post. And have faith in the process. There are plenty of kind compassionate folks here, with much hard-earned wisdom to share.

The path forward, your journey, is about personal growth.

You’ve got the gift of time. Use it wisely.

D

[Bat]

Not sure you specific circumstances, but do know there are lot of ways to have children which don't include sleeping with another woman. Adoption, fostering, IVF, sperm bank, surrogacy...etc, etc.

Yes we did look into these options. But all of these options mean authorities are judging your abilities. And that is something we are scared of. Also involves a lot of money.

This OW is appealing because she’ll be able to pay for most of it, she has a good job in the medical field. It’s not really about not wanting to pay money but about being responsible for the money. She has made jokes about being his sugar mummy, when talking about sending money for an apartment. He did talk about a baby with her and she said wasn’t ready to do this at the same time as moving to our country learning the language etc. In her country she would be able to do it because she has the money and job and house already.

H has some mental issues about money, especially with being a house owner and did go to IC for this. It was about disaster scenarios, like being afraid that the house would collapse due to negligence and things like that.

Getting OW pregnant will not involve anyone interfering or judging him. In his mind people will only congratulate him on having a child and finally be one of the club.

Yes I understand this is messed up. If everything was normal I wouldn’t be on this board.

The easiest way to explain is that he is desperate to fit in, be accepted by friends, family the world and he needs a child for that and this is his only chance to achieve that.

I do know that when the A ends he wants to come back, but that it doesn’t mean problems are solved. We both have serious mental health problems but I still hope we can work on this together.

And she would benefit from the situation the most, it would fulfill her dream of living in Europe, and she’s almost 40 so last chance to have a child also. So I don’t feel sorry for her. She knows she broke up a 14 year R, so I wouldn’t feel sorry for her if she ends up a single mother.

[Bat]

Ok I never wrote what I did to GAL so let me add that to the conversation.

The fact that I don’t have friends doesn’t mean I sit around waiting for him to come home.

I had a burn out and lost my job so pre BD my days were filled with reading, painting, walking the dog, running errands, household, cooking (also my hobby), watching tv and doing fun things with H like eating out, going to movies etc. I did loose 10kg by eating healthier. I did have IC for about a year, ending with a diagnosis. This made me more depressed and I stopped. The diagnosis and BD 1 were about the same time.
Post BD 1we continued this but at the same time we both started gal with each other and on our own. Going to the gym, eating healthy (lost another 15kg), doing more new things together like going to museum. After BD 2, when he said I want her and will visit her and start r and then leave you, I started to really do things on my own and make plans without him. I booked the month long trip I’m on right now, went to museums on my own and to the movies. I also started an online course in webdesign, planning to build a future in which I can work online.

I need a lot of alone time to be honest. Getting friends would mean chitchatting and being social, this is not really something I enjoy spending my time and energy on.

[Bat]

He just tm me that he has found an apartment. He said I need some space to think and can’t do that in our house with you around and with responsibility for the house and the dog.

I need this space to think and maybe then I will be able to think clearly. He doesn’t use the word fog but this is what he is trying to say?

But he also said it’s because OW demands that I have my own space and I can’t let her go at this point. I asked what about me can you let me go. He said I don’t know 🤷‍♂️

I said go ahead maybe it’ll be good for you. Is this ok or how should I react? I do think it’s a good idea.

[bttrfly]

Have you read Divorce Remedy or Divorce Busting?

Have you read the welcome thread and all the links?

I remember coming here desperate for answers and feeling like I didn't have time to do the readings, although I'd read DR ...

Over time I realized that the path to salvation for myself and possibly my marriage was to do the readings myself then ask the questions here.

Hope this helps.

[bttrfly]

If it told the story another way, that he found someone else and fell in love, and had to leave me also because I can’t have kids and he wants a family, then people would be supportive to him. Understanding that he wants a child. And if then after let’s say 1-2-3 years he would come back to me, also people would understand and think it’s romantic. But by being honest about it that this outcome is a possible script, then suddenly it’s messed up. I am the one pushing and outing these endless scripts and scenarios. He prefers to just “see what the future will bring”. I just know him and all of his dark thoughts too well.
Why I think the most likely scenario is no happily ever after with OW? A) he nevers expressed this, always talks about coming back to me, or staying with her for maybe a year and then move on alone if I don’t want him back or moving on to OW2 b) I know the stress and responsibility of a child is too much for him. He needs her to “pull the wagon” and be mainly responsible for dealing with things like school, financial and social things. I am not able to pull the wagon and that’s why it’s better for the two of us not to have a child. He would love to be a weekend dad, doing mainly the fun things and leave daily responsibility to her. This is not being lazy, there are reasons why we both are not able to do this in a normal way.

How about this? You STOP telling a story and simply present the facts as they are, without embellishment or hypothesizing endlessly about possible outcomes?