Brand new and wouldn't mind some guidance for a really rough time I'm going through.
Me (34) and my wife (36) have been together for 14 years and married in 2018. We have one daughter together (11 years old).
At the end of September, my wife unleashed all of these grievances she has deep resentment from that had never come to light before. I was completely blindsided because although I didn't think things were perfect, I didn't realize she had got to this point. Many of the things she was talking about happened a really long time ago that I barely even remembered. It is almost like she has been tucking away/numbing her feelings of a lot of these things I've done wrong in the relationship, possibly for quite a few years, and never told me pointedly for me to try to change it. She has said that she felt alone at many points of our relationship but I also know she knows I've been a really good provider for our family and we've had some really amazing times together.
Now that all of this came out, it's like it's now available for her to analyze/digest all of these feelings/emotions she has numbed.
My heart was just completely shattered. When the person you thought you were going to spend the rest of your life with says they are possibly done with the relationship, it was a true wake up call that has really changed me.
In her mind, all the years of ups/downs just led her to be checked out and just mentally done in the relationship. She had almost accepted it as fine that we've been living two separate independent lives in our household without a connection almost like roommates. And while I agree things weren't perfect, I almost followed the "No news is good news" when we were clearly continuing to drift apart.
Since this "blow up" happened, for about 2 months I have been absolutely working my butt off to show her how much I love her, helping out more around the house, being a better father, husband, and just trying to be a better person in general. These two months have been really hard on my heart. I have been physically sick and had many sleepless nights.
She has acknowledged that she sees the change and really appreciates the changes. Even with this, and my repeated attempts at just pouring my heart out, she is still shutting me out. It's like we can't turn the valve back on that she shut off and made up her mind about for so long. She keeps saying she is "struggling" and knows she is shutting me out. She has also said that she admits she is being selfish but it's like doesn't matter because to her it's almost her time to stand up for her own emotions.
I haven't discounted some of the things that she probably has resentment for. I know I have made a lot of mistakes. I was 23 when we had our daughter and I know I didn't always make the most mature decisions like prioritizing my family instead of hanging out with friends, going to the gym, or even working long hours.
She feels like all the stuff I'm doing now (180 in her mind) makes her feel like she has to just forgive, get over and move on because I want to change and be better. She feels pressured and knows I'm trying to be there for her and showing her how much I love her but it's like not enough. She still keeps shutting me out.
The problem I see is that I'm all-in 100%+ with my effort on fixing things and she is at maybe 2-5% on a good day, still even struggling to be a willing participant at all.
I started reading a few of these threads and see that one of the big ways I have screwed up since she came out as a walkaway wife is not giving her space. In my defense, I'm a human being and being so blindsided made we want answers. Since she wouldn't communicate well in person, we resorted to texting a lot and I think it has pushed her even further way. When I wouldn't get responses it would frustrate me more and I think this led to her to keep saying that she felt pressure all the time for a perfect response. I think it just drained her emotionally.
We've seen a local counselor a few times but again I've still been making the mistake of not giving her space which I learned after reading some of these threads.
Last week, I scheduled a great family outing she agreed to go to at a local professional hockey game with no expense spared and we had a really great time. We also at least were each able to take off work and have a day date where we saw a movie and had a lunch out that was actually really comfortable and had good conversation. I again made the mistake of seeing how she was feeling about things after and that didn't go well.
Now she has told me she's done with the relationship. It's like she has completely convinced herself that getting over these issues is just too hard and therefore not possible. Like there is just too much to get over and the thought of doing so is just too daunting for her.
Maybe she is really done with the relationship but I think it's also possible that what she is "done" with is me smothering/suffocating her which I did out of stupidity.
I want/need to change up my strategy and what I was thinking about was to continue doing all of the good changes that I have been doing that she has clearly seen the difference. This whole thing in general has made me want to be a better father and husband so I want to keep doing that. I was also going to stop applying any pressure to her whatsoever, not seek validation, and let her do what she wants to do. If she wants to continue for us go to therapy, go, etc.
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Welcome! I am posting a copy of Cadet's Welcome Thread below for you. There are links to some valuable resources and information available here on the forum.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Good for you realizing your actions and your willingness to accept responsibility and alter your behaviour and outlook.
Since the blow up you have been helping out more, and been more engaged. Your W a has acknowledged your efforts. Realize she took a lot of time to get to the point of airing everything back in September. It will likely take a similar, if not longer amount of time, for her to believe your changes.
Your changes - being a better husband, father, and person - are admirable. Do them for you, and make them permanent.
It is good she and you have seen a counsellor. Ensure you give her some time and space to process things. And keep the pressure from you minimal, like zero. She will talk about the relationship when she is ready.
Originally Posted by br4d0n
Last week, I scheduled a great family outing she agreed to go to at a local professional hockey game with no expense spared and we had a really great time. We also at least were each able to take off work and have a day date where we saw a movie and had a lunch out that was actually really comfortable and had good conversation. I again made the mistake of seeing how she was feeling about things after and that didn't go well.
Originally Posted by br4d0n
Maybe she is really done with the relationship but I think it's also possible that what she is "done" with is me smothering/suffocating her which I did out of stupidity.
She went out with you to movies and a hockey game. She even had a fun time. However, no one likes smothering/suffocating. And it sounds like that is more what she is pushing against right now.
She’s seen some of your changes. Live those changes. Be better. You the best version of you. Let you actions speak loud and clear.
It takes time for a relationship to heal and evolve.
Next date. No worrying and asking about her feelings. How would new you have dated if you weren’t worried? Be like that. Might have to act as if for a while until you get there.
Read MWD, read threads, ask questions. And do not share with W. She will likely think it just a ploy of some sort. Keep the source of your information to yourself.
The future is unknown and unwritten. Have faith. Where there is love, there is hope.
Welcome to the boards.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
There’s some incredible people here, who will walk this journey with you - and they speak from experience. Sometimes what they say is harsh, but it’s done with good intentions. LH19 will wake you up with 2x4s to the head and ask you hard questions. DNJ is the go to guy when you’re peaking and need someone to calm you down and see the big picture. BL42 has great advice for all situations and has seen it all.
1. Firstly - you can’t convince someone you’ve changed when you were a certain way for 15 years, and now you’ve spent a month or two being different. It takes a LONG, LONG time.
2. You are taking on far too much responsibility already. You’re trying to nice her back, which never, EVER works. It just makes them hate and resent you more, because you’re making their decision (that deep down, they’ve already made) harder. Don’t fall into the trap of being a doormat and a Mr nice guy. It won’t work.
3. You need to forget about her and concentrate on you. Make decision for YOU. Don’t try and impress her, don’t try and be the best husband ever. Start prioritising yourself - exercise, counselling, hobbies, friends.
4. This will seem like crazy advice - but the harder you try to impress and keep her, the less likely you’ll save your marriage. That’s a really hard thing to understand when you get here. But the full reality is that you are most likely to save your marriage by smiling when she says she can’t do it any more, wishing her the very best, and walking in the complete opposite direction. Very few, if any Newcomers have the conviction to do that. But it’s much more likely to end in reconciliation. Women can’t be with men they don’t respect.
5. You need to prepare yourself for the possibility that she’s having an affair. (I’m not giving you much good news, am I?) I came to these boards the same - “oh no, it’s not that, she goes to church every week and tells me she still loves me and there’s definitely no-one else.” Turns out there was. And many who come to the forum who are absolutely 100% sure there’s no-one else, find that nearly ALWAYS there is. Im not saying this to hurt you. But it’s a possibility you need to be prepared for. I see warning signs for it too - when they acknowledge your changes and say they’ve noticed you being much nicer, but simultaneously hang onto resentments from the past (and bring up minor things from 10+ years ago) - it’s a sure sign that they are with or want to be with someone else, and they’re trying to justify it in their own mind. At one point, mine said “you do too many chores/cleaning maintenance around the house for me and the kids and it makes me feel guilty, so I can’t be with you.” And “do you remember that time 15 years ago when we went for a walk and you didn’t hold my hand?” … That was her trying to find excuses to justify her affair.
The best thing you can do at this point is read all of Cadet’s welcome thread and links, stop trying to make her happy, organise some counselling for yourself only… and start exercising 60 mins every day.
You said, "Realize she took a lot of time to get to the point of airing everything back in September. It will likely take a similar, if not longer amount of time, for her to believe your changes."
This is a good point but realistically speaking there is just no way any couple can stay in this limbo state that long, and still be together right? Let's say some of the resentment started on year 2 or 3 of our relationship and continued to present, we're talking like 12+ years. There is no other way she can get past it then time?
She has admitted that it wasn't right for her to suppress all of these feelings and push me away but that is what happened. She knows that how we got here is not all my fault. I guess a part of me really hoped she could take some personal responsibility for the problems that have occurred from her end too and that would kind of open her heart to getting over some of the things she has resentment about on my end.
Kind18:
Thank you as well for the insight.
1. Similar to what I asked DnJ, are we really talking about this possibly taking 10+ years for her to resolve this resentment? How does anyone make it through that amount of time?
2. Your point on trying to nice her back is really well taken. I guess my thinking was trying to show that I was taking initiative like doing the dishes, cleaning the kitchen, etc. which I know is something she has been annoyed with in the past. Doing this without being asked and without seeking any kind of validation, etc. I was going to try to couple this with an almost no pressure, no pestering, no questions, type of approach. Are you suggesting to not do this kind of thing?
3. I can certainly start concentrating on me but the forgetting about her part is where I'm struggling to see the strategy. If I just zero her out once she has said she is "done" with the relationship, doesn't that just put the nail in the coffin? I guess since my ultimate goal/desire is to get her back, I hoped that perhaps if she says she does want to continue counseling for example and I'm able to get her to participate on a 1-on-1 date with just the two us at night and ideally our child away for the night that the sparks could fly again. My thinking is trying to get her to see me like she definitely has at points in our relationship. Then again, no questions about how things went, no texting, not seeking validation, no anything.
4. I agree. It's not that I'm pushing back but it's hard for me to process not trying to impress her and show her that I've changed. The truth is that when she unleashed all of this about her resentment, it might be hard to believe but something in me has really changed. In my head I'm thinking if I almost ignore her and focus only on myself, spending more time with friends, etc. isn't that making the problem worse and disconnecting even further?
If I'm understanding what you are suggesting, it's a complete you do you, I'll do me type of approach. I keep being the best father to our daughter and co-parent I can, but keep everything with the spouse kind of isolated? And like don't do the dishes, clean the kitchen, etc.?
5. Your point is well taken and I can't say 100% of course but I really don't think so. However, that is not to say that she hasn't been prepping for a possible better suitor if one were to come along. Or even fantasizing about what that could look like. Once this all came out at the end of September, I reflected back and realized that she really started focusing on her weight and strict dieting beginning of September. That said, she does that from time to time with resolutions, etc. She also started dressing better/more fashionable, probably also due to looking better. Again, not 100% certain she isn't but she would have to almost be a master at it with what I do and how I observe.
You’ll know if she’s having an affair by how she is with her phone. Is it always close by? Passcoded? Long trips to the bathroom with it? Early or late to bed with it?
Let's say some of the resentment started on year 2 or 3 of our relationship and continued to present, we're talking like 12+ years.
The resentments at the start of a relationship, like year 2 and 3, are usually quickly forgiven or perhaps more aptly quickly glossed over. Later into a marriage/relationship, let’s say 12-18 months ago, those things are not so easily overlooked. Pressures of life have built, we are older and have changed, career pressures, kids, etc, and if a couple has not a good open communication established - the no news is good news idea - then resentment builds more and more. It’s that time frame I am referring to, the recent past; not the entire relationship.
W will bring up stuff from the entire relationship to blame you and justify her decision. Shifting her viewpoint takes time. It took time to shift it to what it currently is, it takes time and consistent demonstrated behaviour on your part to influence her to perhaps shift it again.
You make it through this by focusing on you, doing your inner work, and becoming a man only a fool would leave.
Originally Posted by br4nd0n
I can certainly start concentrating on me but the forgetting about her part is where I'm struggling to see the strategy. If I just zero her out once she has said she is "done" with the relationship, doesn't that just put the nail in the coffin? I guess since my ultimate goal/desire is to get her back, I hoped that perhaps if she says she does want to continue counseling for example and I'm able to get her to participate on a 1-on-1 date with just the two us at night and ideally our child away for the night that the sparks could fly again. My thinking is trying to get her to see me like she definitely has at points in our relationship. Then again, no questions about how things went, no texting, not seeking validation, no anything.
You don’t quite forget about her. You are living together. You are still speaking to each other.
The point is to respect what she says. She says she is done with the relationship. Respect that. Listen to her. And no pressure.
Now, she is “done” when she said that. At a different time, she is not so “done”. Feelings are fleeting when not reinforced. Pressure and R talks reinforces her feelings. Let go of her and go about your day. Be kind and cordial and polite. Do you for you.
W needs time and space to relax her feelings and let the other ones surface. She has lots to process and reconcile.
As for putting the nail in the coffin. I get how it feels that way. A lot of this stuff is counterintuitive at first. It will feel wrong to you.
You are looking to fix this. You can’t. There are no magic words or easy fix. Pressuring her puts more nails in. She’s already hammered some nails in, you are wanting her to take those nails out. You can’t force that. She has to come to it on her own and on her own time.
Stay strong. You’ll get through this.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Consider making your highest priorities building your relationship with your daughter and improving yourself for you. And there's no need to chase your W. You'll probably find that she will stay on the periphery of your life, no matter how many times she says that she's completely done.
What you are saying is really clicking with me now. Especially once I read Michele's last restore techniques.
Unfortunately what I've realized is that these past two months of me stressfully doing what I thought was working really hard, and maybe gaining some traction, was just doing all the things being perceived as pursuing/needy/desperate which just as the technique talks about has just led to withdrawing/shutting down/stonewalling. Lesson learned of course.
That said, my recent plea (that didn't work of course) before the official "I'm done with the relationship" was for her to give it through the holidays (Christmas and New Years) and really "try" with us to make things work for my daughters sake more than anything. Now I at least have a new strategy I can invoke here during this time since I'm respecting her decision that she's "done".
Here is a big question: We were supposed to have our couple counseling session today but it was canceled due to a family emergency of the counselor. He wants to reschedule next week. How should I navigate that if my wife still wants to go? Should I still attend? Or if I'm really following the process and going about my day and really "moving on" with my life, why would I do that? If the answer is no don't attend, what should my response to her be? Or is it an opportunity to still attend but not really talk about R stuff, any pressure, or trying to commit to dates and see where she is at?
Another question: There is a little bit of an internal struggle with this on doing what is right for my daughters sake as well, with holidays, group neighbor family gatherings, family couple outings, etc. For example, Wife says she is "done" but we were supposed to go to her families house for Thanksgiving activities this weekend. It's a bit awkward in general now of course, but me attending makes both parents present for the young one. Or again, if I'm really "moving on" with my life, because at her request she is "done" with the relationship do I say something like, you know I ended up making other plans this weekend with some old friends (which isn't really a lie and could be the case).
Lastly, LH19, on the affair discussion. She is on her phone a lot and is always close with a passcode, however, that has always been the case. Neither of us share our phones with the other, ever. No long visits to the bathroom. I'm really confident that there is no affair based on my methods as I also explored this before here. The only possible blind spot I have with timing, schedules, commitments is if she has something going on at her work that only ever stays at her work (never away from work). I think that is highly unlikely.
I don't think that you should go through with the counseling session. If she's not willing to put in any effort, it won't go anywhere. And if you don't go through with it, she'll see that you are trying to let go. Letting go can only help you.
