Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 10 of 12 1 2 8 9 10 11 12
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,687
Likes: 236
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,687
Likes: 236
Definition of martyr

mar·​tyr | \ ˈmär-tər \


1: a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion

2: a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle
a martyr to the cause of freedom

3: VICTIM
especially : a great or constant sufferer



Originally Posted by Wolfman
Mach- first I am not playing martyr. I am explaining what is going on. Looking for support and advice. I don’t have anyone close to me I trust. So, I come here. You asked if I have explained to her what I feel and when she says or does certain things how it makes me feel. It gets me nowhere. She either doesn’t listen or has excuses. Example:She is very busy throughout the day, the baby, cleaning and cooking. I get it. Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now. Ok I understand. At night then (not the same day) I will wait till she gets in bed when she is no longer busy. I will go over and start to kiss her and she will say she is tired. So I explained to her, when she does that I feel neglected, I feel like I don’t matter and I am at the bottom of her list. That the home is more important, cleaning is more important. I explain when I come up behind her I am not looking to take up a lot of her time. A simple reciprocal kiss and that is it. Not pushing me away. She will get defensive and say if she stops things won’t get done, and that she is tired and she just wants to finish. I said I understand you are very busy and everything you do is tiresome. I even ask how can I help take some of the burden off? She would just say she doesn’t have time and how tired she is all the time. Then I asked when is there us time? She responded I don’t know. So Mach, I do explain what she does and how it makes me feel, it doesn’t change anything.

I'm not buying it....

Every thing about that ^^^ up there tells me differently...

Much of what I would say has been covered above with some really great posts..

What are you truly expecting when you kiss her, let's say, doing the dishes ?

When she is in bed ?

And the 'once in a while' showing of love and appreciation..

Are you showing her love and appreciation the way that SHE needs it ?

Or the way that YOU need it ?

Because everything you said up there was all just talk.

Nothing up there told me how your actions showed Love and Appreciation...

There is a HUGE difference between what CAN happen walking up behind a Woman doing dishes and kissing her neck....

A kiss based on past behavior of it leading to sex, yea, not gonna happen to a busy Mama....

A kiss based on understanding and participation in your daily life, perhaps one with you telling her that you 'got this, and your bath is run' Then the consistent action of following through and showing her that you "got it"...

???


Your expectations while doing so play a huge role in this. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

You said in the past that you didn't want to do more than your 50% of things.....

Who keeps track of that ?

50% could be as easy as you do everything this year, and she does them next year....

Scorekeeping will get you nowhere FAST...





And even as much as I think that ^^ is BS....

The line that is above all, what I would assume the most offensive is...

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She is very busy throughout the day, the baby, cleaning and cooking. I get it.

I'm not convinced that you do "get it".....


Because if you have to ask what you can do to "help"??

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I said I understand you are very busy and everything you do is tiresome. I even ask how can I help take some of the burden off?

Then you really do not understand....


At the end of the day Wolf, you CHOSE this....

Playing the Martyr that you refuse to see, allows you to convince people that you are a victim of this...

Is it really her not keeping her end of the deal ?

You not keeping your end ?

Or possibly that neither of you even realize what the deal actually is now...



DBing is quite an effective tool for detaching after your bomb, and during your stand.

However, detachment serves no purpose in maintaining an active relationship.

The premise of DBing does apply, and that is to do what works, and from this day forward.....






Originally Posted by Wolfman
I have to run shortly, I have so much to talk about. Real quick, gf birthday was July I surprised her with a trip to Central America (one of the country’s she has family in) the trip was at the end of August. Went and visited her family and a couple of days I rented a house on a lake for a few days. We had an amazing time. This wasn’t easy for me financially had to go into my savings. But I wanted to do something special for her and get away from it all. But when we got back argument after argument..

Why would you say that it became different, and what prompted the argument after argument ???



Support and advice....

Well, you have been receiving some really great advice you've been ignoring for some time now.....

Support ?

You seem to have an excellent level of consistency, keep that up...

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Hi Wolfman,

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now... So I explained to her, when she does that I feel neglected,
Hopefully, it's clear now why an act that seems loving on the surface is not. It's similar to the way people say "I love you"--to get "I love you" back. Nice guy syndrome. Pick gifts of love that you can offer with no expectations. Pick gifts of love that speak her love language. Some suggestions have been finding a sitter so you can go on regular date nights, expressing heartfelt gratitude for all she does to help your home and budget, asking what one thing she least wanted to do that day and taking it up, and taking over the dishes or cooking so she can relax. Fill her love bank. (:

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
W
Wolfman Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
Thank you all for your help. I am taking a lot of what everyone said into consideration.
First, The Love Language. A long time ago we took a Love Language questionaire, I went back to it. We did it about a year and a half ago. Not surprisingly, touch was last on her list. Acts of service was 1 and quality time was 2. With that in mind, I have been really trying to help her around the house and clean and take care of the baby without her asking. She has said I am a big help. I just want to say to all of you its really hard. I want physical touch so much, that is my love language. I understand I do these acts of service not because I am looking for something in return but to fill her love tank. At the same time I feel like my love tank is depleting.

I have also decided not to really speak about how I feel to her. I will tell you why. It seems like when I do it usually starts an argument. I just put a smile on and go on. You might be thinking I need to express myself to her, or I am going to "explode". The thing is, I have tried to explain to her from a place of love how I feel, she just gets defensive and makes excuses why she isnt doing certain things. We get nowhere. In the last few weeks things have been mostly peaceful but my resentment is starting to grow. There is literally no physical touch anymore, none. I can't remember the last time she came over to me and gave me a kiss, or even just hugged me. I know I am supposed to fill her love tank with no expectations, but what do I do? I tried speaking to her numerous times and got nowhere? I give up on that.

According to Michele:
Furthermore, there is an unspoken and often unconscious expectation that the higher desire spouse must accept the no-sex verdict, not complain about it and remain monogamous. After decades of working with couples, I can attest that this is an unfair and unworkable arrangement.

AS I was typing this, I realized we just started therapy together. I will bring it up at therapy. Not right away but when the time is right. The first session went well, I feel like she will be able to help us. We established we need to work on our communication and gave us some strategies how to handle our conversations. Hopefully she will also help us with the $ex part. Because I am "starving".


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,687
Likes: 236
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,687
Likes: 236
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Thank you all for your help. I am taking a lot of what everyone said into consideration.
First, The Love Language. A long time ago we took a Love Language questionaire, I went back to it. We did it about a year and a half ago. Not surprisingly, touch was last on her list. Acts of service was 1 and quality time was 2. With that in mind, I have been really trying to help her around the house and clean and take care of the baby without her asking. She has said I am a big help. I just want to say to all of you its really hard. I want physical touch so much, that is my love language. I understand I do these acts of service not because I am looking for something in return but to fill her love tank. At the same time I feel like my love tank is depleting.


The thing is about the 5LL....

There are two sides to it.

I always recommend reading it twice to anyone that hasn't before, and to new posters.

We tend to read it to understand what WE need as our language. And the first read after the bomb is usually interpreted as a "how I F'ed this up manual"...

The second read of it, I always want the poster to really look at the way that we show love to our partners....

You may feel love by physical touch, yet may show love by acts of service....

Read it again Wolf....

See how you show it....

She may very well show you love by WOA, so discounting the way that she shows love, is essentially you rejecting her love....

Make sense ?

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
W
Wolfman Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
Originally Posted by Mach1
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Thank you all for your help. I am taking a lot of what everyone said into consideration.
First, The Love Language. A long time ago we took a Love Language questionaire, I went back to it. We did it about a year and a half ago. Not surprisingly, touch was last on her list. Acts of service was 1 and quality time was 2. With that in mind, I have been really trying to help her around the house and clean and take care of the baby without her asking. She has said I am a big help. I just want to say to all of you its really hard. I want physical touch so much, that is my love language. I understand I do these acts of service not because I am looking for something in return but to fill her love tank. At the same time I feel like my love tank is depleting.


The thing is about the 5LL....

There are two sides to it.

I always recommend reading it twice to anyone that hasn't before, and to new posters.

We tend to read it to understand what WE need as our language. And the first read after the bomb is usually interpreted as a "how I F'ed this up manual"...

The second read of it, I always want the poster to really look at the way that we show love to our partners....

You may feel love by physical touch, yet may show love by acts of service....

Read it again Wolf....

See how you show it....

She may very well show you love by WOA, so discounting the way that she shows love, is essentially you rejecting her love....

Make sense ?

It does make sense. The only part and don't laugh, what does "WOA" stand for? I'm hoping with this change in what I am doing for her and therapy together will help a lot. Still a long road ahead.

The other thing I really believe she has post partum depression. We were in the mall yesterday and she just started crying. Saying how she feels so anxious and so depressed. I even said to her, I know there has been a lot that has gone on, I know that things have been tough. I told her I was there for her and help her anyway possible. That she is strong and we will get through this together. I also mentioned that she might have post partum and we should get her checked out. She was on board. Anyone ever deal with post partum, either for themselves or a family member?


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 1,760
Likes: 193
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 1,760
Likes: 193
Wolfman,

Keep taking care of your side of the fence and be the best man you can be, and hopefully the rest will work itself out.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
The only part and don't laugh, what does "WOA" stand for?
The 5 Love Languages: quality time, words of affirmation, gifts, acts of service, or physical touch.

WOA = words of affirmation

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Anyone ever deal with post partum, either for themselves or a family member?
I've wondered if a combination of now-ExW's postpartum depression (with a 1yo at the time) and stopping longtime anti-depressant / anti-anxiety medication factored into BD & D, but will never know for sure.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
W
Wolfman Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
BL sorry to hear all of that.

I am really frustrated today. I am trying to make things better for us. Her LL is acts of service. She asked me to return a jacket for her to a store that is 30 minutes away. She had work today and I was off. I returned the jacket for her then I surprised her at her job. She was so happy and excited. After she got off from work I took her to dinner. When we got home I helped her clean up. Then at one point I put my arms out for a hug. She came over to me and gave me a 1 second hug, then said she doesn’t have time and went back to cleaning. The hug felt like a friend hug. I am getting tired of this. I made all this time for her today, did a bunch of things for her and I am not worth a hug??? Little by little I am losing interest in this relationship. I am really trying to fill her love language and she doesn’t care about mine. How much more? I feel like I am just a wallet to her at this point. It’s starting to feel more like a friendship. Therapy we are doing is only going to delay this. Unless she has an epiphany I don’t see this getting better.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 604
Likes: 251
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 604
Likes: 251
The problem is you see love as transactional.

You think it’s like making a deposit at the bank, then a few hours later you suddenly want to go and make a withdrawal.

Your real motivation for engaging with her love language appears to get her to reciprocate and give you what you want.

Love isn’t a series a transactions.

You should want to engage her love language for no reason other than knowing it makes her happy, without an expectation hiding in the shadows.

If you’re not happy in the relationship - then tell her and persist with therapy, or if you’ve lost interest, then leave.

Quote
Unless she has an epiphany I don’t see this getting better.

Sounds like more than one person needs to have an epiphany.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
W
Wolfman Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
Kind. You are right to a degree. We talk about LL and I have been trying to fill her love with those things. I know I made the post as if it was one day, that is my fault. I am trying to do the things she love more. I would like her to reciprocate. Why is that bad? I want my LL to be filled. I have told her I have told her the things I would like too, but it doesn’t seem to matter what I want. This is the same thing that happened in my marriage. I try to do the things that they want, when they don’t reciprocate, I start to get frustrated and feel unwanted and unloved. I start to get resentful and start to shut down.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
No one is saying that your wanting things is bad or that asking for what you want is bad. I think where the breakdown might be is in how you deliver the message. I have said this to you before and it bears repeating: stop keeping score and stop fighting to be right all the time. You say you have done these things that speak to her LL and she seems pleased but then when you want something she shuts you down. Timing and delivery, my man. You can’t keep a tally of what things you are doing for her, expecting her to reciprocate immediately. Keep doing things for her without expectation of anything in return. I get you want her to fill your love tank in a way that speaks your LL but she may be so far down at the moment that she just can’t get there. Just stop keeping score like I did a,b,c so I should get 1,2,3 because even if you don’t intend for that to come across that way to her, that is exactly how she is perceiving it.


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Page 10 of 12 1 2 8 9 10 11 12

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard