First off, I want to thank everyone here who has shared their stories and given their time to help people work through their relationship issues. The information here has been invaluable in helping me navigate through my situation.
I came across this forum after reading Michele’s book about a month and a half ago. I’ve read through a bunch of the threads and have tried to implement as much as possible. Here’s my story. Married almost 18 years, together for 22. High school sweethearts. Have a S19, D17 and D4 (adopted), and we also have a 6yr old who we were foster parents for who does not live with us, but we still support a bunch. My story is similar to many on here, married young, W has a bunch of childhood trauma, I did not provide enough emotional support to W, slowly drifted apart just going through the motions of life, I didn’t recognize the severity of the red flags and blew them off, W finally had enough of living in a house of negativity and feeling unloved.
The last straw for W came in late May. I was getting ready to go out of state to work for a few months. Family was going to meet me for the last half of the trip. Two weeks before leaving, W said we need MC or we’re getting divorced. I was trying to get the house ready (painting, fixing things, etc) so they would be set while I was gone. I have never been against MC, and actually welcomed it, but I thought it was too short notice to start something and said we could do it when I got back in 2 months. In hindsight, that was where things ended. I didn’t know it at the time, but per my D17, as soon as I left the state, W started with MLC/WAW type behavior. Staying out until 4-6 am, lost a bunch of weight, not eating, shopping, ignoring the kids, on phone 24/7, etc. D17 basically was playing mom for D4. I was told by W that everything was peaceful without my negativity. She felt that way, but rest of family did not.
In early July, family came to visit and this was when I first realized things were serious. W would not even hug me when I she first got there. She remained distant for the 2 weeks they were there creating an awkward situation I did not yet understand. When we got back home, July 22, got the “official” BD. ILYBINILWY, we need to figure out a separation, etc. I made the common mistakes at first (cried for 3 days, begging, trying to nice her back, promises, etc) not knowing it was way too late for that and counterproductive. Thankfully I found DR book pretty shortly after that and was able to correct some things. My main purpose for adding my story here is to get help with certain things that come up and as a source of support since the few I’ve reached out to don’t really understand the DB process.
*W had previous PA about 12 yrs ago. We never properly moved on from it. W is currently texting 247 with a male “friend” who has been out of the picture since the time of previous PA. He was not the AP previously, but at the time I believed she had feelings for him. Part of moving on from previous PA was NC with this guy also. I’m assuming worst obviously and am convinced there’s at least an EA. She does not hide that they text all day and knows I know who it is.
*I would describe our situation as IHS. She wants to move out but can’t afford it. She has pretty low paying job. Sleep in same bed still. Only sex since May has been oral twice a few weeks ago. I recently set a boundary against it stating that I am not comfortable with that with someone who does not have an emotional connection with me.
*Divorce is difficult as a buyout refi would almost double my mortgage. She asked for legal separation/divorce in late July, but to date has done nothing to push for it. She can’t afford the house on her own. Neither of us want to sell as this is our kids’ home and moving out of a large home to each have to pay more for small apartments does not make sense.
*I’ve been working on improving myself as I had basically lost my identity over the years while thinking I was doing the right thing for my family (cooking, cleaning, paying bills, working a bunch, fixing house, etc.) Unfortunately I neglected everyone’s emotional needs while taking care of their physical ones. My GAL has been working out a lot, which actually started prior to BD, but was accelerated after, reconnecting with old friends, becoming way more social at work and with family/friends, spending time with kids, dressing better and trying to live with confidence.
*I’ve been in IC for 2 months. Not very helpful, but I’m on several waitlists. Was supposed to be MC. W went first one. I went to fix M, she went to help with separation. She felt guilted into agreeing to work on M and never went back.
*S19 and D17 know everything that is/has happened. Not ideal, and I’m trying to keep things vague as possible for them, but I thought it was necessary for them to understand what was actually happening instead of being confused. D17 reached out to me first after researching MLC while I was gone. They fully understand my role in leading up to this and do not view W with any ill will.
There’s a bunch more stuff to add to this, but it feels like a good start. The things I am currently struggling with are:
*How to detach while living with IHS. D17 has soccer games twice a week that we attend together. W gets upset when I “ignore” her. I try to give short answers, I don’t call/text unless family related, and I validate when she is upset. We have not had a single argument since BD. W gets upset at my lack of communication with things, which has been intentional. The first few weeks after BD, she referred to me as her best friend and it felt that way for a bit. I learned about detachment and she caught on immediately. I think it was too drastic a transition. One day BFF’s, next day barely talking. She blamed my IC, but it was me working on detachment. It’s just hard to figure out how much communication is too much when you live together and basically have to talk to each other a lot of the time.
*Validation without sounding robotic. I’ve read the validation thread several times, but it’s hard not to repeat phrases. W has called me out for it and sometimes finishes my sentences.
*W constantly asks for things from me. Getting something at the store, driving with her somewhere, making her a sandwich, etc. She hasn’t done her own laundry in 2 months but doesn’t ask me to do that and I said I wasn’t going to anymore. Do I just politely refuse these things regardless of her reaction? Just a few at a time until I’m not doing anymore?
Any advice through this process would be greatly appreciated. It’s tough, but it’s helpful knowing people have gone through similar situations and made it out okay. Thank you!
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
*W had previous PA about 12 yrs ago. We never properly moved on from it. W is currently texting 247 with a male “friend” who has been out of the picture since the time of previous PA. He was not the AP previously, but at the time I believed she had feelings for him. Part of moving on from previous PA was NC with this guy also. I’m assuming worst obviously and am convinced there’s at least an EA. She does not hide that they text all day and knows I know who it is.
This makes me curious...
Maybe give me some background on that...
How you worked through that, or didn't work through that...
Originally Posted by Dw
*I would describe our situation as IHS. She wants to move out but can’t afford it. She has pretty low paying job. Sleep in same bed still. Only sex since May has been oral twice a few weeks ago. I recently set a boundary against it stating that I am not comfortable with that with someone who does not have an emotional connection with me.
What was the boundary ?
What wording did you use ?
Just curious what that looked like....
Originally Posted by Dw
*Divorce is difficult as a buyout refi would almost double my mortgage. She asked for legal separation/divorce in late July, but to date has done nothing to push for it. She can’t afford the house on her own. Neither of us want to sell as this is our kids’ home and moving out of a large home to each have to pay more for small apartments does not make sense.
That's pretty typical. It makes for some interesting times for sure.
That seems to be the standard catalyst for an in home situation.
IF you were make a plan to change that, what would that look like ?
Originally Posted by Dw
*I’ve been working on improving myself as I had basically lost my identity over the years while thinking I was doing the right thing for my family (cooking, cleaning, paying bills, working a bunch, fixing house, etc.) Unfortunately I neglected everyone’s emotional needs while taking care of their physical ones. My GAL has been working out a lot, which actually started prior to BD, but was accelerated after, reconnecting with old friends, becoming way more social at work and with family/friends, spending time with kids, dressing better and trying to live with confidence.
What would you have changed....???
Why would you have changed it ??
Originally Posted by Dw
*I’ve been in IC for 2 months. Not very helpful, but I’m on several waitlists. Was supposed to be MC. W went first one. I went to fix M, she went to help with separation. She felt guilted into agreeing to work on M and never went back.
Different goals, different expectations....
What are you hoping to work through with an IC ?
Originally Posted by Dw
*S19 and D17 know everything that is/has happened. Not ideal, and I’m trying to keep things vague as possible for them, but I thought it was necessary for them to understand what was actually happening instead of being confused. D17 reached out to me first after researching MLC while I was gone. They fully understand my role in leading up to this and do not view W with any ill will.*How to detach while living with IHS. D17 has soccer games twice a week that we attend together. W gets upset when I “ignore” her. I try to give short answers, I don’t call/text unless family related, and I validate when she is upset. We have not had a single argument since BD. W gets upset at my lack of communication with things, which has been intentional. The first few weeks after BD, she referred to me as her best friend and it felt that way for a bit. I learned about detachment and she caught on immediately. I think it was too drastic a transition. One day BFF’s, next day barely talking. She blamed my IC, but it was me working on detachment. It’s just hard to figure out how much communication is too much when you live together and basically have to talk to each other a lot of the time.
I always tried to act...
Aloof, yet available
D, it kinda sounds like she found and has read your DB playbook, or possibly one of your kiddos has clued her into MLC and what that entails....
Almost as if she is one step ahead of you in this...
Be sure to keep your reading material close, and your internet activity even closer to you. Clear history, delete and sites that you have visited.
You wouldn't be the first person that has posted here to have their spouse 'find' them and use it against them.
Be careful with it...
Also be careful with the information that is being passed between you and the kiddos....
Your job isn't to facilitate their relationship, your job is to not damage it. It has to be formed by them...
Originally Posted by Dw
*Validation without sounding robotic. I’ve read the validation thread several times, but it’s hard not to repeat phrases. W has called me out for it and sometimes finishes my sentences.
Yep, it all feels fake...even to the LBS...
Get creative with validation. Most people don't desire to be 'right', they just want to be heard...
Listen without defending, and speak without offending...
You aren't gonna talk your way out of something that you acted your way into...
You are gonna to be mocked when you do this. No matter what way you go, it will be wrong in her eyes. Years of anger and resentment have built up inside of her, and it is just beginning to come out.
It doesn't make any of it true, unless you believe it to be true.
There are typically 3 sides to every story. Yours, Hers, and somewhere in the middle is where the truth usually lies....
She is going to do everything imaginable to convince you and everyone around her, that her side is the absolute truth.
She will try to gaslight you into thinking that you are the crazy one...
I'm gonna start a pool of how long it takes before you hear "well, are you perfect now"....
Takers ?
Don't buy it, do you.
Nothing less and nothing more for now.
Originally Posted by Dw
*W constantly asks for things from me. Getting something at the store, driving with her somewhere, making her a sandwich, etc. She hasn’t done her own laundry in 2 months but doesn’t ask me to do that and I said I wasn’t going to anymore. Do I just politely refuse these things regardless of her reaction? Just a few at a time until I’m not doing anymore?
Uhm...
Didn't she "fire" you from that job ?
I'm not so sure that you can "chore" your way back into this marriage. However I think that you know that....
There’s a bunch more stuff to add to this, but it feels like a good start. The things I am currently struggling with are:
*How to detach while living with IHS. D17 has soccer games twice a week that we attend together. W gets upset when I “ignore” her. I try to give short answers, I don’t call/text unless family related, and I validate when she is upset. We have not had a single argument since BD. W gets upset at my lack of communication with things, which has been intentional. The first few weeks after BD, she referred to me as her best friend and it felt that way for a bit. I learned about detachment and she caught on immediately. I think it was too drastic a transition. One day BFF’s, next day barely talking. She blamed my IC, but it was me working on detachment. It’s just hard to figure out how much communication is too much when you live together and basically have to talk to each other a lot of the time.
*Validation without sounding robotic. I’ve read the validation thread several times, but it’s hard not to repeat phrases. W has called me out for it and sometimes finishes my sentences.
*W constantly asks for things from me. Getting something at the store, driving with her somewhere, making her a sandwich, etc. She hasn’t done her own laundry in 2 months but doesn’t ask me to do that and I said I wasn’t going to anymore. Do I just politely refuse these things regardless of her reaction? Just a few at a time until I’m not doing anymore?
Any advice through this process would be greatly appreciated. It’s tough, but it’s helpful knowing people have gone through similar situations and made it out okay. Thank you!
DW, sorry you're going through this. It [censored] I know. First, asking to start MC until you guy back was not a mistake. Likely she was already going WW, and wanted to use MC to ease you into the idea. Its a very common tale. Very few WAS that suggest MC are in it to fix things.
Detaching is never an easy thing. For you or her. She will buck you trying to detach because she loses her plan B. That's right, even as a WAS and probably a WW, she still wants you at arms length in case her new plans don't work out. Almost all WASs use their LBS as a safety net. Especially since she, in your words, can't afford her own place and doesn't make much money. So she will cake eat and ride daddy's (that's you) gravy train to support her girls gone wild act sad long as she can. So you start to detach and she guess "whoa there fella, get back here!!"
And she sounds pretty savvy because she is calling you out on the validation. However, that doesn't mean you stop. Both detaching and validating have a simple truth....."Practice makes perfect." So stop using canned responses and really try to understand her feelings. Then validate them. "I feel trapped in this marriage." Response: "Wow, I had no idea it was that bad for you. That has to be a terrible feeling." The suggested responses are simply examples. Quoting them without sincerity or feeling will be sniffed out by the savvy WASs. And detachment is not ignoring. If you're ignoring her you're doing it wrong. Look at it more as just not being the one to initiate interaction. And when she does, interact for a short time, then have places to be and things to do.
Practice. Practice. Practice.
As far as doing things for her. Here's a question: Do you want her to respect you, or to be your friend? Being a friend to someone you want more with [censored]! And will cause you to behave it was that do not command respect. Most LBS would rather be liked than respected. Which is why there are so many divorces. So stop doing those things. "Can you stop by the store and get me X." "No I don't have time for that." "Can you make me a sandwich?" "No, you can make your own sandwich." "Can you drive me to Y?" "No, that's something a husband does for a wife and you're are firing me as your husband."
She will get upset. She will get angry. She may not even like you for it. But she will respect you.
Glad you found us. Keep the questions coming.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
*Validation without sounding robotic. I’ve read the validation thread several times, but it’s hard not to repeat phrases. W has called me out for it and sometimes finishes my sentences.
I don't have to say much with my lady. As long as I focus on listening and understanding how she is feeling, that is enough for emotional validation. I make sure I am aware of my body language, eye contact, facial expressions ect...Pretty much give her my full attention.
At your stage, you can test how much STFU you need. Study her non verbal communication as if she is the most interesting person on the planet. (Do this with everyone you interact with as well).
Enjoy the ride.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
*This makes me curious... Maybe give me some background on that... How you worked through that, or didn't work through that...
We were basically dealing with the same issues then as now. I wasn't attentive to her needs and she met those needs elsewhere. She was partying a lot with a close friend dealing with her own relationship problems. The AP was in the small group of people she got close with that hung out at a local bar. The current likely AP was also in that group. Everything now is exactly the same, including the local bar. I'm not convinced there is a PA, but definitely an EA, not that it really matters. The last PA I found out about after red flags caused me to search her phone. She admitted to everything and I stayed with my sister for a few weeks. W cut off all talks with AP and the new likely AP and we just moved on. No MC, no real talks about it, no real remorse, I never realized my contribution to the situation, we just basically ignored it. I was about 25 at the time and I guess I was just embarrassed and didn't know any better.
Originally Posted by Mach1
What was the boundary ? What wording did you use ? Just curious what that looked like....
W gave a hypothetical (she loves those) about I would have sex with her if she asked. I said something similar to "I would not have sex with someone that does not have an emotional connection with me." She seemed surprised by my answer because previously I had answered differently. We had previously talked about no strings attached sex to meet our needs. Her friend told her not to because I'd go crazy (which makes no sense to me, but oh well). My response then was if she wasn't comfortable with it then we shouldn't.
Originally Posted by Mach1
That's pretty typical. It makes for some interesting times for sure. That seems to be the standard catalyst for an in home situation. IF you were make a plan to change that, what would that look like ?
IF I made a different plan, it'd have to be to sell the house I think. I haven't really figured out a good solution. Talked to the bank about refi options, plan on talking to a L just to get some more info about my options and their recommendations. I'm still working through this part.
Originally Posted by Mach1
What would you have changed....??? Why would you have changed it ??
As far as what I would have changed regarding losing my identity, I would have stayed connected with friends, engaged in activities that did not include my wife, invited my own friends to the house (my "friends" basically became whoever my wife was friends with), stayed in better shape, found more hobbies, worked on the relationships with my kids, worked less, focused less on making money and more on family/friend time, and many other things. I'd have changed this because I feel like that was the single biggest reason my marriage failed. I was going through the motions of life unhappy, and being in denial about it. Nobody wants to be around a negative homebody, even if they cook and clean.
Originally Posted by Mach1
What are you hoping to work through with an IC ?
My goals seem to change as I gain understanding of things. First it was fixing my marriage, then understanding my own issues, which I still think is important. Lately he just asks for a recap of the week and tells me I'm doing good staying calm and to wait it out. I already know that though. I go to IC today and plan on focusing on just bettering myself and developing a positive, confident, motivated mindset. I don't feel like I'm getting good advice regarding the M when I seek it there. E.g. I was told to do weekly check-ins to see if my changes were being noticed and how W felt about them. Did it once against the recommendations here, didn't work, decided not to take anymore advice and started searching for new IC.
Originally Posted by Mach1
Be sure to keep your reading material close, and your internet activity even closer to you. Clear history, delete and sites that you have visited.
I appreciate the feedback here. I am careful with things, and W is so in her own world I don't think she cares. But I know I must stay on alert. My D mentioned MLC to my wife while I was gone and W got angry with her. To my knowledge it hasn't been brought up since. The kids don’t talk with W about what’s going on and she hasn’t asked them. Only in the past week or so has W even bothered talking to them at all.
Originally Posted by Mach1
I'm gonna start a pool of how long it takes before you hear "well, are you perfect now"....
Lol, I've already heard this dozens of times. "Tell your next wife to thank me for fixing you", “Must be nice that you can ruin my life but now you’re perfect”, etc.
And she sounds pretty savvy because she is calling you out on the validation. However, that doesn't mean you stop. Both detaching and validating have a simple truth....."Practice makes perfect." So stop using canned responses and really try to understand her feelings. Then validate them. "I feel trapped in this marriage." Response: "Wow, I had no idea it was that bad for you. That has to be a terrible feeling." The suggested responses are simply examples. Quoting them without sincerity or feeling will be sniffed out by the savvy WASs. And detachment is not ignoring. If you're ignoring her you're doing it wrong. Look at it more as just not being the one to initiate interaction. And when she does, interact for a short time, then have places to be and things to do.
Thank you for this response. Validating doesn’t come naturally to me, so I know it’s a work in progress. I'm reading a book right now called The Lost Art of Listening to try and help with that also. I didn’t have emotional support when I was young so I learned to live without it. Unfortunately, that doesn’t help relationships with other people, particularly a W who experienced a ton of childhood trauma. Learning the hard way, but I’ll get there. And I’ve been trying to validate with everyone I interact with as needed, just to improve.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
As far as doing things for her. Here's a question: Do you want her to respect you, or to be your friend? Being a friend to someone you want more with [censored]! And will cause you to behave it was that do not command respect. Most LBS would rather be liked than respected. Which is why there are so many divorces. So stop doing those things. "Can you stop by the store and get me X." "No I don't have time for that." "Can you make me a sandwich?" "No, you can make your own sandwich." "Can you drive me to Y?" "No, that's something a husband does for a wife and you're are firing me as your husband."
She will get upset. She will get angry. She may not even like you for it. But she will respect you.
This helps. It’s hard because she can be demanding at times, but I understand the assignment! Thank you for your feedback. It definitely helps.
And she sounds pretty savvy because she is calling you out on the validation. However, that doesn't mean you stop. Both detaching and validating have a simple truth....."Practice makes perfect." So stop using canned responses and really try to understand her feelings. Then validate them. "I feel trapped in this marriage." Response: "Wow, I had no idea it was that bad for you. That has to be a terrible feeling." The suggested responses are simply examples. Quoting them without sincerity or feeling will be sniffed out by the savvy WASs. And detachment is not ignoring. If you're ignoring her you're doing it wrong. Look at it more as just not being the one to initiate interaction. And when she does, interact for a short time, then have places to be and things to do.
Thank you for this response. Validating doesn’t come naturally to me, so I know it’s a work in progress. I'm reading a book right now called The Lost Art of Listening to try and help with that also. I didn’t have emotional support when I was young so I learned to live without it. Unfortunately, that doesn’t help relationships with other people, particularly a W who experienced a ton of childhood trauma. Learning the hard way, but I’ll get there. And I’ve been trying to validate with everyone I interact with as needed, just to improve.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
As far as doing things for her. Here's a question: Do you want her to respect you, or to be your friend? Being a friend to someone you want more with [censored]! And will cause you to behave it was that do not command respect. Most LBS would rather be liked than respected. Which is why there are so many divorces. So stop doing those things. "Can you stop by the store and get me X." "No I don't have time for that." "Can you make me a sandwich?" "No, you can make your own sandwich." "Can you drive me to Y?" "No, that's something a husband does for a wife and you're are firing me as your husband."
She will get upset. She will get angry. She may not even like you for it. But she will respect you.
This helps. It’s hard because she can be demanding at times, but I understand the assignment! Thank you for your feedback. It definitely helps.
Also, do not apologize. This is something LBS struggle with. Notice the responses I listed. They don't say " Sorry, I don't have time." Just "No. I don't have time." Its hard not to apologize, but you definitely shouldn't.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
