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Hi Wolfman,

It's been a week! Which suggestions did you try and what's changed? Which suggestions can you commit to trying this week and what are you hoping will change?

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Hey everyone. Sorry for being gone. Got really busy. I watched it’s not about the nail. That is so me. Just trying to fix, knowing me, I would have argued about taking the nail out. I just want to fix things and move on. I still have a lot of work with validation and understanding. Old behaviors die hard.

Mach- first I am not playing martyr. I am explaining what is going on. Looking for support and advice. I don’t have anyone close to me I trust. So, I come here. You asked if I have explained to her what I feel and when she says or does certain things how it makes me feel. It gets me nowhere. She either doesn’t listen or has excuses. Example:She is very busy throughout the day, the baby, cleaning and cooking. I get it. Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now. Ok I understand. At night then (not the same day) I will wait till she gets in bed when she is no longer busy. I will go over and start to kiss her and she will say she is tired. So I explained to her, when she does that I feel neglected, I feel like I don’t matter and I am at the bottom of her list. That the home is more important, cleaning is more important. I explain when I come up behind her I am not looking to take up a lot of her time. A simple reciprocal kiss and that is it. Not pushing me away. She will get defensive and say if she stops things won’t get done, and that she is tired and she just wants to finish. I said I understand you are very busy and everything you do is tiresome. I even ask how can I help take some of the burden off? She would just say she doesn’t have time and how tired she is all the time. Then I asked when is there us time? She responded I don’t know. So Mach, I do explain what she does and how it makes me feel, it doesn’t change anything.

Mach- I will try this, Name one thing that you would like to have done today, that you totally hate doing, and I will do it , no questions asked....
I’ll let you know how it goes.
I have to run shortly, I have so much to talk about. Real quick, gf birthday was July I surprised her with a trip to Central America (one of the country’s she has family in) the trip was at the end of August. Went and visited her family and a couple of days I rented a house on a lake for a few days. We had an amazing time. This wasn’t easy for me financially had to go into my savings. But I wanted to do something special for her and get away from it all. But when we got back argument after argument. I talk about those next post.


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Wolfman,

Good to hear from you.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I watched it’s not about the nail. That is so me. Just trying to fix, knowing me, I would have argued about taking the nail out. I just want to fix things and move on.
That video is great. Women and men both relate to it; really demonstrates the two almost opposing approaches. I first watched it at a work leadership seminar years ago and then brought it up with my IC - who loved it - during the heart of my sitch when we were talking about empathy and listening vs. fixing.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I still have a lot of work with validation and understanding. Old behaviors die hard.
Good you recognize and are working on it - that's a key step.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Example:She is very busy throughout the day, the baby, cleaning and cooking. I get it. Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now. Ok I understand. At night then (not the same day) I will wait till she gets in bed when she is no longer busy. I will go over and start to kiss her and she will say she is tired.
It could be she's exhausted from caring for the baby and hasn't had any personal space due to the baby and really doesn't feel like touching anyone. Or...it could be because of her negative feelings towards you (your fault or not) she's repulsed and backing away from you. I remember my then-W backing off from a hug from behind in the kitchen or a kiss after work a month or two before BD and not thinking much of it at the time - thought it was a temporary thing - but now with hindsight realizing she was probably thinking of leaving and didn't want to be loving/physically touched.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
So I explained to her, when she does that I feel neglected, I feel like I don’t matter and I am at the bottom of her list.
Imo it's good you're verbalizing your needs. It's important to communicate those clearly so resentment doesn't build up.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Mach- I will try this, Name one thing that you would like to have done today, that you totally hate doing, and I will do it , no questions asked....
I’ll let you know how it goes.
I like this idea. And keep it up over and over even if she doesn't appreciate it the first or second time. Perhaps she just won't ever, but maybe over time she'll soften. Either way, at least you're acting in the R as you should serving out of love.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Real quick, gf birthday was July I surprised her with a trip to Central America (one of the country’s she has family in) the trip was at the end of August. Went and visited her family and a couple of days I rented a house on a lake for a few days. We had an amazing time. This wasn’t easy for me financially had to go into my savings. But I wanted to do something special for her and get away from it all. But when we got back argument after argument.
That sounds like an incredibly thoughtful gesture. Maybe she fell back into patterns on returned, but I wonder if she wasn't in a mindset to fully appreciate it at the moment due to her feelings. Remember in DB'ing no gifts or gestures which cause pressure? I don't know, maybe others disagree.


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I’m confused. You say you come up behind her and hug and kiss her to show her she is loved and appreciated, however she annoyed by it. Then it becomes that YOU feel neglected. Basically you are showing her she is loved and appreciated in the way you want to be loved and appreciated, not her.
Have you thought of showing her she is loved and appreciated in the way she wants to be, not the way you want to do it ? It’s the basics of the 5 LL.

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Originally Posted by Wolfman
Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now.
To piggy back off what Ginger said unless her LL is physical touch this means nothing to her. She sees it as all about you trying to get a piece of a$$.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I even ask how can I help take some of the burden off? She would just say she doesn’t have time and how tired she is all the time. Then I asked when is there us time? She responded I don’t know.
Don't ask. Lead. Take charge.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
So Mach, I do explain what she does and how it makes me feel, it doesn’t change anything.
Sounds like she doesn't care. I have a lot of friends in your boat who do nothing hoping things will change. They usually don't change on there own.

For a relationship to be successful both people need to be willing to blow it up on occasion, argue it out and be prepared to walk if a compromise can't be reached. That takes a lot of strength and self-confidence. For more often people stuff it down and pave over it and eventually you're sitting on a volcano that's ready to blow. This typically takes many years but you somehow managed to get there in a couple Wolf.

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Originally Posted by Wolfman
Mach- first I am not playing martyr. I am explaining what is going on. Looking for support and advice. I don’t have anyone close to me I trust. So, I come here. You asked if I have explained to her what I feel and when she says or does certain things how it makes me feel. It gets me nowhere. She either doesn’t listen or has excuses. Example:She is very busy throughout the day, the baby, cleaning and cooking. I get it. Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now. Ok I understand. At night then (not the same day) I will wait till she gets in bed when she is no longer busy. I will go over and start to kiss her and she will say she is tired. So I explained to her, when she does that I feel neglected, I feel like I don’t matter and I am at the bottom of her list. That the home is more important, cleaning is more important. I explain when I come up behind her I am not looking to take up a lot of her time. A simple reciprocal kiss and that is it. Not pushing me away. She will get defensive and say if she stops things won’t get done, and that she is tired and she just wants to finish. I said I understand you are very busy and everything you do is tiresome. I even ask how can I help take some of the burden off? She would just say she doesn’t have time and how tired she is all the time. Then I asked when is there us time? She responded I don’t know. So Mach, I do explain what she does and how it makes me feel, it doesn’t change anything.

To just support what Ginger said, it sounds like you try physical “moves” to show her love and when she doesn’t reciprocate, you feel rejected and then you make it about your feelings and how she rejected you. To agree with what LH said, if physical touch isn’t her thing, what you are doing is about as effective as spitting in the wind. Ask her how she feels and then listen. I kind of see the same thing Mach does…the martyr thing, because you always seem to turn situations to how you feel or how they effect you. Like LH said, take the lead and just do stuff for her without first asking her what she wants you to do. If you are unsure what to do, pay close attention to what she is doing then jump in. Call her up on your way home from work and tell her to relax and not worry about dinner because you are picking something up, then grab some carry out that she enjoys. Bring it home, set the table, fix her plate, ask how her day was, wait on her and let her just relax and LISTEN to her when she tells you about her day. Don’t automatically cut her off to tell her about your day or to complain about how tired you are. Of course you are, but she doesn’t need to hear it in that moment.


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The most exhausting job I ever did was caring for my children when they were young - and I used to work 12 hour shifts as a physician at a very busy urgent care center!

And yes, when you have a baby hanging off you and needing something from you all day long, a partner touching you or wanting some attention from you can feel like just another chore.

Do you have a trusted sitter yet so you can go out on date nights together?

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I imagine if instead of coming up behind her kissing her while she is in the middle of a chore no one likes, if you came up to her and said “ why don’t you go relax and do something for yourself and I’ll finish the dishes” THAT would show love and appreciation.

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Bingo

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Originally Posted by Ginger1
I imagine if instead of coming up behind her kissing her while she is in the middle of a chore no one likes, if you came up to her and said “ why don’t you go relax and do something for yourself and I’ll finish the dishes” THAT would show love and appreciation.
Yes!!! Omigosh, that would've been so attractive when my kids were little.

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