It's been a few weeks. I hope everyone is doing well.
Update: WW is travelling soon. I don't know for sure if a meeting with OM will happen in the place she is going, although I suspect it will happen. I do know that she wants to meet him, as my instincts about her are strong and even a slight demeanor change usually gets accurately interpreted in my mind. And which OM will turn down a chance to fu*k a hot woman?
Last two weeks she has been quite nasty and crazy. It's as if she was deliberately withdrawing from me - which is, her preparing her mind for travel and quite possibly a rendezvous with the OM. One night, I was chilling in my room when she came inside and launched at me viciously. She continuously accused me of crazy things including how I am giving her anxiety. I know that I have only been nice and calm with her all these months, never raised my voice, and minded my own business so the things causing her anxiety are probably her own issues, related to the divorce and her continued bitterness. She tried very forcefully to get me to talk about how things will be after divorce - even going to the extent of telling me that she will come back to me only if I immediately "show maturity" about D planning and post-D life. She even told me that she knows this influencer who is divorced but takes vacations with her ex-husband and kids, has monthly weekend outings, dinners etc. I did not budge and enforced my boundaries - no post-D talk, no direct insults. Eventually she gave up.
Just a reminder that we are in a farcical IHS, living like a married couple or married parents. I am sure she thinks that even if LTR with OM doesn't work out, she can fall back to me. I am not a psychologist, but OM knows she is a cheater with a special needs child.
In the last month or so I have realized that I have become rather good at avoiding any confrontations and not getting affected by her nastiness. This mindset has been developing for 4 months and I feel it has matured to a degree that makes me feel happy and strong. I am doing plenty of GAL, discovering new strengths, talents. I have finished booking a super GAL - a solo international trip. I'm really excited about it. Professional life is going great, and I have stepped it up.
At this time, the only reason I still want to stay in this marriage is my son. The only time I feel pain, is when I look at his face and think what he will go through. And that is a great pain. Is there anything I should tell her before she travels, since I strongly suspect that she will cheat? Should I make any power moves? How will I find out what she did there? I have been so crazy busy that I've had no time to think about all this. I am thinking as I am writing this.
Peter there is a saying here I strongly believe, cheaters cheat because that’s what they do. She’s not going there to bake apple tarts. She demonizes you because it’s easier to cheat on a monster than a good person. You have to decide what if another PA is a deal breaker. If you are in it for your son just ride it out and eventually she will either recommit or D you.
It's been a few weeks. I hope everyone is doing well.
Welcome back! Please keep us updated as much as possible. Believe it or not the posters here really do care about the LBSs that post here.
Originally Posted by PeterB
Update: WW is travelling soon. I don't know for sure if a meeting with OM will happen in the place she is going, although I suspect it will happen. I do know that she wants to meet him, as my instincts about her are strong and even a slight demeanor change usually gets accurately interpreted in my mind. And which OM will turn down a chance to fu*k a hot woman?
I always advise people in situations like this to just assume she is going to be in a full PA with OM. Since she is going to where he is, and without her husband and child, what other reason could there be? Any reason she gives otherwise falls into the "Believe nothing she says" category. So assuming she is going to engage in a PA. And knowing you said this was a boundary, what will your action be?
Originally Posted by PeterB
Last two weeks she has been quite nasty and crazy. It's as if she was deliberately withdrawing from me - which is, her preparing her mind for travel and quite possibly a rendezvous with the OM. One night, I was chilling in my room when she came inside and launched at me viciously. She continuously accused me of crazy things including how I am giving her anxiety. I know that I have only been nice and calm with her all these months, never raised my voice, and minded my own business so the things causing her anxiety are probably her own issues, related to the divorce and her continued bitterness. She tried very forcefully to get me to talk about how things will be after divorce - even going to the extent of telling me that she will come back to me only if I immediately "show maturity" about D planning and post-D life. She even told me that she knows this influencer who is divorced but takes vacations with her ex-husband and kids, has monthly weekend outings, dinners etc. I did not budge and enforced my boundaries - no post-D talk, no direct insults. Eventually she gave up.
No quite possibly about it. This is in total preparation for meeting with OM. "My husband is driving me nuts! He is so awful. He is being such a child about all of this. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!" Almost all conversation in an A that isn't sexual in nature, is how terrible their current MR/R is. They commiserate about their situations, convince each other that their LBSs are complete losers and terrible human-beings, and then use that as an excuse in engaging in the lowest form of deceit and betrayal: adultery!
Good job on staying calm and not giving into her madness. I took a slightly different tact and made it clear to my WW that there would be no friendship, no buddy-buddy garbage, post-D. We would coparent, but that would be the extent of our "relationship" post-D. I do not think the tact you are taking is wrong. But at some point you might want to consider saying "There will be no R above our coparenting post-D". This helps in breaking their "everything is rainbows and unicorns" post-D illusions.
Originally Posted by PeterB
Just a reminder that we are in a farcical IHS, living like a married couple or married parents. I am sure she thinks that even if LTR with OM doesn't work out, she can fall back to me. I am not a psychologist, but OM knows she is a cheater with a special needs child.
This was the same in my situation. Keeping up appearances. I wouldn't necessarily assume you are plan B. Most of the time the LBH is like plan Z, with 24 other plans between OM and the LBH. When my WW's EAP ended the EA, she immediately went on the prowl for her next EA. But yes, in general, she feels like if all else fails, she has ol' loyal PeterB. Even though she will have just broken one of your biggest boundaries: a PA.
Originally Posted by PeterB
In the last month or so I have realized that I have become rather good at avoiding any confrontations and not getting affected by her nastiness. This mindset has been developing for 4 months and I feel it has matured to a degree that makes me feel happy and strong. I am doing plenty of GAL, discovering new strengths, talents. I have finished booking a super GAL - a solo international trip. I'm really excited about it. Professional life is going great, and I have stepped it up.
I found the same sweet spot eventually in my situation. Remaining calm. Remaining confident. Remaining above her crazy. The more you exhibit this the more she will realize that you KNOW you will be fine, no matter what! Remember the previous discussion above, she expects you to be sitting their pining away for her no matter what she does. Cheating with OM. With OM#2. With OM#3. Doesn't matter because ol' PeterB will be there waiting. Because he'd rather be with a cheating me than not me at all.
Great job on GAL. I found GAL to be my salvation. And I even managed to get a promotion in the middle of my situation! So keep up the good work there.
Originally Posted by PeterB
At this time, the only reason I still want to stay in this marriage is my son. The only time I feel pain, is when I look at his face and think what he will go through. And that is a great pain. Is there anything I should tell her before she travels, since I strongly suspect that she will cheat? Should I make any power moves? How will I find out what she did there? I have been so crazy busy that I've had no time to think about all this. I am thinking as I am writing this.
Remember, Peter, kids would rather be from a broken home than IN a broken home. The damage this is doing to your son is more than you will ever know. I do not say that to hurt you but to show you that sometimes the best thing to do for the kids is to end the toxic relationship. In my situation, my daughter was 14. We thought we had hid all of our strife from her, but we later found writings she did to her friends talking about "what was going on with my parents right now", and being unsure about the future (meaning whether her parents were going to stay together or not). Kids usually know more than we think they do. Even a child on the spectrum, we never know what they are picking up on. Some would argue a spectrum child may even pick up on more non-verbal clues than a non-spectrum child.
As far as your questions:
"Is there anything I should tell her before she travels, since I strongly suspect that she will cheat?" No, this is out of your control. Again, assume she is going to cheat. And plan your actions accordingly. You've already said that a PA was a deal-breaker. So what are you planning on doing post this trip?
"Should I make any power moves?" Maybe, but likely the only power move I am thinking you can make is/are different than the one(s) you are thinking. Imagine she gets back from her trip, sleeping with OM, and you have her served with D papers. Now THAT is a power move. "I refuse to remain with a cheater."
"How will I find out what she did there?" Remember my story about my friend whose W went to the hotel with the OM? She refused to admit anything happened. He made his decision based on the fact that he assumed what happened. Again, you will NEVER know for sure, but use common sense. A married mother travels to a place where the OM is without her husband and child. Don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to crack that case! People with nothing to hide, hide nothing.
"I have been so crazy busy that I've had no time to think about all this. I am thinking as I am writing this."
Good, stay busy! GAL is your best friend. Emotional detachment is your best friend. Sticking to your boundaries is your best friend! Embrace your best friends!
Stay strong!
Last edited by SteveLW; 08/12/2202:07 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Peter there is a saying here I strongly believe, cheaters cheat because that’s what they do. She’s not going there to bake apple tarts. She demonizes you because it’s easier to cheat on a monster than a good person.
Haha you are right. I sat down and thought clearly last night. I have been working a lot, but I made time last night to write the message above and think. She made up her mind to cheat again sometime last month. She is going to use her body to not just try to lock in OM but also to take revenge on me. I am certain of that now. I also figured out that some strange behavior I observed a few days ago was probably some drama related to OM - the result of her speaking to him on the phone the day before (to hide the call, she told me she was going out to speak with her confidant - a friend of hers who I had helped a lot when she was in adversity but now wants her to divorce me - good life lesson this).
Originally Posted by LH19
You have to decide what if another PA is a deal breaker. If you are in it for your son just ride it out and eventually she will either recommit or D you.
I had already set a boundary - another PA would be an immediate D. As mentioned previously, at some point I started thinking if it should be a D immediately or I take some time. I am not sure anymore - need to think. At the same time, I know that apart from my concerns about the effect on my son, I am fine if she initiates D.
Welcome back! Please keep us updated as much as possible. Believe it or not the posters here really do care about the LBSs that post here.
Thanks SteveLW. I feel very supported on this forum. It has unique and highly effective value for any LBS.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
I always advise people in situations like this to just assume she is going to be in a full PA with OM. Since she is going to where he is, and without her husband and child, what other reason could there be? Any reason she gives otherwise falls into the "Believe nothing she says" category. So assuming she is going to engage in a PA. And knowing you said this was a boundary, what will your action be?
She is going to a place where OM does not live. But that means nothing as it is a cheap flight out. I'm sure they will meet and have sex. My boundary was set previously, and I am thinking about its execution. Should I wait for her to D or should I D immediately or take some time to work on myself before D? The last option would mean taking on a demeanor she has not seen previously. Good thing about limbo is that it gives me time to work on myself and I am doing a lot of good to myself by GAL and self-improvement. It will also allow me time to evaluate my thoughts regarding my son's situation in all of this.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by PeterB
Last two weeks she has been quite nasty and crazy. It's as if she was deliberately withdrawing from me - which is, her preparing her mind for travel and quite possibly a rendezvous with the OM. One night, I was chilling in my room when she came inside and launched at me viciously. She continuously accused me of crazy things including how I am giving her anxiety. I know that I have only been nice and calm with her all these months, never raised my voice, and minded my own business so the things causing her anxiety are probably her own issues, related to the divorce and her continued bitterness. She tried very forcefully to get me to talk about how things will be after divorce - even going to the extent of telling me that she will come back to me only if I immediately "show maturity" about D planning and post-D life. She even told me that she knows this influencer who is divorced but takes vacations with her ex-husband and kids, has monthly weekend outings, dinners etc. I did not budge and enforced my boundaries - no post-D talk, no direct insults. Eventually she gave up.
No quite possibly about it. This is in total preparation for meeting with OM. "My husband is driving me nuts! He is so awful. He is being such a child about all of this. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!" Almost all conversation in an A that isn't sexual in nature, is how terrible their current MR/R is. They commiserate about their situations, convince each other that their LBSs are complete losers and terrible human-beings, and then use that as an excuse in engaging in the lowest form of deceit and betrayal: adultery!
Sage words. The OM is divorced btw. She has known him for a long time, and she is desperate to lock him in. You won't be surprised, but she does not take responsibility for her actions at all. She told me during BD how my frequent irritability and consequent fights took a toll on her. I fully know her own role in that irritability and fights, but subsequently I took full responsibility for my actions. That has had a cathartic effect on me. It has also taught me the value of taking ownership of one's actions and feelings. Now in most difficult situations across anything (including work, play, home), it comes as slow motion that I should react in a way that benefits me, and negativity does not benefit me.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Good job on staying calm and not giving into her madness. I took a slightly different tact and made it clear to my WW that there would be no friendship, no buddy-buddy garbage, post-D. We would coparent, but that would be the extent of our "relationship" post-D. I do not think the tact you are taking is wrong. But at some point you might want to consider saying "There will be no R above our coparenting post-D". This helps in breaking their "everything is rainbows and unicorns" post-D illusions.
I like this idea. I will do that next time and close her out. So far, I have not because I just did not want to get into uncontrollable situations and had the desire to not give her opportunities to belittle me. But now that my next PA boundary is hit, I will tell her plainly.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by PeterB
Just a reminder that we are in a farcical IHS, living like a married couple or married parents. I am sure she thinks that even if LTR with OM doesn't work out, she can fall back to me. I am not a psychologist, but OM knows she is a cheater with a special needs child.
This was the same in my situation. Keeping up appearances. I wouldn't necessarily assume you are plan B. Most of the time the LBH is like plan Z, with 24 other plans between OM and the LBH. When my WW's EAP ended the EA, she immediately went on the prowl for her next EA. But yes, in general, she feels like if all else fails, she has ol' loyal PeterB. Even though she will have just broken one of your biggest boundaries: a PA.
I just don't know how to prevent her from thinking that I am plan B or Z. Should I even care?
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Great job on GAL. I found GAL to be my salvation. And I even managed to get a promotion in the middle of my situation! So keep up the good work there.
Ditto. A promotion coming up. One official commendation per month is my goal. I have come a long way from being a laid-back person professionally and overall.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
As far as your questions:
Originally Posted by PeterB
"Is there anything I should tell her before she travels, since I strongly suspect that she will cheat?"
No, this is out of your control. Again, assume she is going to cheat. And plan your actions accordingly. You've already said that a PA was a deal-breaker. So what are you planning on doing post this trip?
Answered above. I am thinking about it. No certain answer right now.
At this time, the only reason I still want to stay in this marriage is my son.
That is how I used to think. Challenge/question your belief system. There is the "ideal" family that married couples should be striving for, but your sitch is far from the ideal. There are some "ideal" divorced family models that you can strive for that will still have two involved parents showing him love.
Originally Posted by PeterB
How will I find out what she did there?
Sounds controlling.
Women are going to test their men. Are you passing the tests? Have you done your research in the manosphere? PUA,red pill,blue pill,black pill, etc?
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
At this time, the only reason I still want to stay in this marriage is my son.
That is how I used to think. Challenge/question your belief system. There is the "ideal" family that married couples should be striving for, but your sitch is far from the ideal. There are some "ideal" divorced family models that you can strive for that will still have two involved parents showing him love.
If D, then I'll maintain a cordial coparenting relationship. But there will not be any socializing or laughing or emotional/physical support or dinners or travel together.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by PeterB
How will I find out what she did there?
Sounds controlling.
Would have to disagree. If I don't know then how will I enforce my boundary that one more PA and I will move towards a D myself? LH19 & SteveLW suggested going by assumption. At least for me that is hard, but I am exploring it. In any case, imo a husband or wife should want to know if their spouses cheated, regardless of the state of the relationship. Not wanting to know or not trying to find out (if suspecting) would be a sign of lacking self-respect imho. She is well into travel btw. I couldn't care less about stopping her from doing whatever she wants to.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Women are going to test their men. Are you passing the tests? Have you done your research in the manosphere? PUA,red pill,blue pill,black pill, etc?
Can you clarify? What type of tests did you mean? I don't think either I or her passed any tests and that is why we are in this situation.
This is your story. "I wanted my kids to live with both parents in a happy marriage, so badly, I did ______ to become a better partner and only gave up when she ______." Why are you standing? Have you given 180s your all? You could make a strong, self-respecting story either way. Your odds aren't good. May recovered after multiple PA encounters, but her XH was waffling after her 180s.
I'm with Steve that she'll almost certainly have sex on this trip. If this is a hard boundary--"Two strikes and you're out!"--another Vet, Ben, needed the evidence to walk away with a clean conscience. If that's you, consider hiring a Private Investigator to get the closure you want.
