My Story P5: Saying goodbye to the MLC Madness

[Elbereth]

Hi Eagle. I’m glad you are getting to do some fun stuff around the new house planning!

As for the letter, I agree with D and BL42. Something doesn’t seem right. What would be necessary in person at this point? I agree that getting it in writing would allow you more options in processing it. In person, there could be so much other emotional stuff that it could be really stressful. He’s not fully earned any right yet to that level of communication. Sure, he may be turning a new leaf and making some efforts, but don’t make it easy on him until you know for sure his actions are sincere.

That’s my take anyway.

El

[DnJ]

Hello Eagle

I forgot about still needing to sign papers for the house sale. That certainly sounds like a candidate for what he means by next step.

What kind of nice new things have you picked out for the house? Got a theatre room, or office, or playroom figured out? I suspect the house has a pretty sweet kitchen. How many bathrooms? I hope there is at least two; you got a big family with your three kids.

Take care.

D

[Eagle3]

G’s message is intriguing. And, methinks, purposefully vague.Given he sent is on Father’s Day, I’d suspect he is stirred somewhat. The little wanted interacting from his kids, undoubtedly amplifying that stirring.

Yes, it is. As I already mentioned G is a really smart guy. Therefore his messages are worth analysing.

The “next step” is an odd statement. The whole message is a bit odd if you ask me. Next step? Your move. Maybe he’s moving? Or marrying? Or breaking up?

I asked, with the next step he indeed means the actual sale of the house. I assume he wants to meet before that. Why?
My guess:
1/ Because he feels guilty of the way he treated me before he left the last time. Doesn’t mean he has genuine remorse of course, and I do not expect that.
2/ Kids (see below)
3/ Because he is very curious of how our lives are going now. (see below)

Meeting at his house to discuss sounds rather entrapping. I’d steer clear of that. Like you said, I think OW2 lives with him. So not sure why he’d invite you to his house.

Don’t understand that either but will definitely not go to his house. If I agree, it will be somewhere neutral.

My guess is to do with the kids. His message to them and then one to you are likely connected. Your move, the next step, cuts him out of your life. He had, and has, nothing to do with the house. To “end everything in a better way” for him would to be involved. Remember, his path is all about him. I suspect manipulating to get back in to the middle of things. You sense something too - as in he feels you cannot live without him. His manipulating looks, for the moment, not seriously nefarious; more of a man trying to figure out an easy way to talk his kids into seeing him. Avoiding the difficult work.

Yes D, exactly what I’m thinking. I’ve mentioned point 2/3 which is what you are saying as well. I’m pretty sure we will be spot on.

Still, I’d respond and see just what he is up to. Not an agreement to meet. Not yet. Rather a prompt for more information.

Which I did. There he mentioned the fact that it was because of the sale of the house and the way it “ended” between us.

Of course, you could just ignore the message, yet for the sake of your young children I think this opportunity is something worth exploring.

You know I’m not like that and I never will. I’ve always told him that I would be there (not as wife, but as the father of our children) if he realizes the fact that something is seriously wrong with him and that he needs help to deal with it and his past trauma’s. He knows this very well.
Because he did mention this in his messages several times now towards the children I want to explore if he is telling the truth. (but I guess we all know the answer on that... )

Personally I'd decline the in-person meet up and ask him to type up what he wants. That'll give you time to read it, process it, and craft a thoughtful and unemotional response. Just my $0.02.

Thank you BL for your approach. However G is not a writer, has never been. Would be strange to ask him. I also do not want to act unemotional. This is simply not me.
I am a very empathetic person, and towards him I will always continue to do so as well. He will of course no longer see the heavy negative emotions, simply because they are no longer there.

As for the letter, I agree with D and BL42. Something doesn’t seem right. What would be necessary in person at this point? I agree that getting it in writing would allow you more options in processing it. In person, there could be so much other emotional stuff that it could be really stressful. He’s not fully earned any right yet to that level of communication. Sure, he may be turning a new leaf and making some efforts, but don’t make it easy on him until you know for sure his actions are sincere.

Thank you El. And in a way I understand what you are saying. These past days, the MLC threads on DB were quite interesting to me and I assume to many people who dealt or are dealing with MLC spouses. What has been written on DnJ and Bttrfly's thread, and definitely also the explanations of Mach1 are exactly the description of how I see and look at an MLC’er. The part about forgiveness made a lot of sense and definitely also the way DnJ described his anger stage. That related so much to my own experience.
Earning his rights, not making it easy for him is of no meaning when they are in deep MLC, and to me this has no meaning either. To me, when they come out of MLC, it they ever, things will automatically be very hard for them, but as they say, there is no way but going through.

If I decide to have dinner with him I will do this in the first place for myself, but even more for my children. Where can I benefit if I were to agree to meet him? I have broken all contact months ago, we did have some smart contact the past month, now he reaches out to meet. I won’t lie, I’m quite curious if maybe he is putting baby steps towards the end of the tunnel.

And, last but not least, I want to test myself as well.

These past weeks I’m even doubting if I ever would want him back. My life is going really well, I’m seeing a future for myself again, one where he does not fit in at the moment. I’m curious if this will be the case as well when I’m an evening in his presence.
I haven’t mentioned a lot about this but these past few months I have been actively working on myself.
Together with my therapist we did a deep dive into my past, to find my specific difficulties. This to learn and to become the person I really want to be for the next part of my life. I will shortly start with CBT as well to guide me further in that. (thank you OwnIt)

What kind of nice new things have you picked out for the house? Got a theatre room, or office, or playroom figured out? I suspect the house has a pretty sweet kitchen. How many bathrooms? I hope there is at least two; you got a big family with your three kids.

DnJ, I even took an interior architect to make it exactly as I want it. LOL
Next week I have a meeting to go over the plans he has created. I’m really looking forward to that.
The house I bought is based in one of the most beautiful city centres you have ever seen (it’s a very famous medieval city in Europe).
The house has 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and last but not least, a great garden court of which I will create the most cosy place you’ve ever seen!

I'm off now, beautiful weather here and I don't have to work today, can't be better.

Take care and have a great day!

[DnJ]

Good Morning Eagle

If I agree, it will be somewhere neutral.

Isn’t wonderful when you get to this place. If I agree…

It’s “if”. Not in a mean way. Rather it’s your choice and your control of you. And that makes a lot of difference.

And, last but not least, I want to test myself as well.

Ah, IMHO, the best reason of all.

If I may; like I waxed on about my anger stage, which I realize I haven’t typed about in like almost four years, that and other “long ago” things; one first thinks they are healed. They regain control of the intellect. Bills can get paid, decisions can be made, work can be performed. Though one certainly doesn’t feel like it.

Eventually, feelings catch up. Our heart - the one kept soft and squishy - catches up to our mind. We feel better, we feel healed. We reinforce these thoughts and inspire these positive feelings.

This process inspires our beliefs - our soul. We hope to believe we are healed.

Beliefs are interesting things. They live deep inside us, and are slow to change. They inspire everything about us; note inspire not control, for one’s mind is the throne of control. Beliefs can be ignored, to one’s self peril.

At this point, one has organized their beliefs and convictions; having strengthened, altered, discarded, and crafted their deep values. Yet one needed to know their beliefs are strong. To believe in what they believe. In this case, belief of being healed. Hence, testing or temptation is a necessary step along the path.

When one’s physical, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual paths are aligned and tested and known and believed, it is such a peace. I’ve personally found I lead and decide more from my “soul” now. Like for everything. It’s quite amazing. And I realize when I am not, for I get twisted up. Life’s feedback and all.

…I’m even doubting if I ever would want him back. My life is going really well, I’m seeing a future for myself again, one where he does not fit in at the moment. I’m curious if this will be the case as well when I’m an evening in his presence.
I haven’t mentioned a lot about this but these past few months I have been actively working on myself.
Together with my therapist we did a deep dive into my past, to find my specific difficulties. This to learn and to become the person I really want to be for the next part of my life.

Yes, become you. The best version of you.

You need to answer nor even decide of you would ever want him back, or where he will fit in your or your kids future lives. Things do have a way of sorting themselves out.

Do focus, and believe, in and on your life. How well it is going. How well you are doing and becoming. Everything flows from those deep convictions.

As OwnIt has attested, thought work, or cognitive behavioural therapy, is a helpful tool. One of many tools in the personal development toolbox. One which I do find to be my default, it just happens for me.

Some advice regarding the thoughtful purposeful altering of negative thoughts; ensure they are negative and/or you truly want to alter them. Hopefully, that causes a pause within you. How do I know if they are truly negative? I’m not talking about our obvious hurt and self blaming and such from the events that have befallen us. I’m talking about beliefs and convictions. Discussions of MLC being real or not being a recent example.

My path, and thoughtful approach, is not to discount “the other side”. I find there is already far too much of that in the world which programs society to such one sided thoughts - just look at the polarizing views and bloodlust fights that politics, or Covid, or any number of other hot button topics brings forth. My approach, each side is right and more importantly wrong (although I do admit the embracing one’s wrongness of things takes some getting used to). So let’s stick with both sides are right.

One would fight tooth and nail that it is a 6. And the other would equally fight it is a 9. Both are right. And if neither will humble themselves to look from the other side, the battle will rage external. Both being fully self justified and right. One can be right and end up incorrect.

Utilize thought work to elevate above whatever it is you are working on. See it from a completely different plane. Do not choose one side or the other. Do not limit yourself. You are so much worthy to see the full picture. And in that larger picture, choosing sides becomes irrelevant. Life it turns out is far from black and white, it has many colours and shades.

DnJ, I even took an interior architect to make it exactly as I want it. LOL
Next week I have a meeting to go over the plans he has created. I’m really looking forward to that.
The house I bought is based in one of the most beautiful city centres you have ever seen (it’s a very famous medieval city in Europe).
The house has 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and last but not least, a great garden court of which I will create the most cosy place you’ve ever seen!

I love it! An interior architect! That is fantastic.

Oh my goodness, a great garden court. Wow! And four bedrooms, 2 bathrooms. Sounds awesome!

Keep shinning.

D

[Eagle3]

Do focus, and believe, in and on your life. How well it is going. How well you are doing and becoming. Everything flows from those deep convictions.
As OwnIt has attested, thought work, or cognitive behavioural therapy, is a helpful tool. One of many tools in the personal development toolbox. One which I do find to be my default, it just happens for me.
Some advice regarding the thoughtful purposeful altering of negative thoughts; ensure they are negative and/or you truly want to alter them. Hopefully, that causes a pause within you. How do I know if they are truly negative? I’m not talking about our obvious hurt and self blaming and such from the events that have befallen us. I’m talking about beliefs and convictions. Discussions of MLC being real or not being a recent example.
My path, and thoughtful approach, is not to discount “the other side”. I find there is already far too much of that in the world which programs society to such one sided thoughts - just look at the polarizing views and bloodlust fights that politics, or Covid, or any number of other hot button topics brings forth. My approach, each side is right and more importantly wrong (although I do admit the embracing one’s wrongness of things takes some getting used to). So let’s stick with both sides are right.
One would fight tooth and nail that it is a 6. And the other would equally fight it is a 9. Both are right. And if neither will humble themselves to look from the other side, the battle will rage external. Both being fully self justified and right. One can be right and end up incorrect.
Utilize thought work to elevate above whatever it is you are working on. See it from a completely different plane. Do not choose one side or the other. Do not limit yourself. You are so much worthy to see the full picture. And in that larger picture, choosing sides becomes irrelevant. Life it turns out is far from black and white, it has many colours and shades.

The reason why I want to follow cognitive behavioural therapy is not to change my way of thinking, but to check if I can work on certain things, I will not go into detail here because it is too personal, and has little to nothing to do with EXH but things which I want to see for myself in a different way in the future. Matters with which I myself have struggled for a long time, which have clearly come to the surface because of what I have experienced now (call it an awakening for myself) and which I wish to approach in a different way in relationships with the people in my life . (this on relational, family and friendship level)
The intention is to become an even better version of myself, although I am, if I do say so myself, already very satisfied with who I am.


As indicated last time, EXH had invited me for a dinner to “round things off” nicely. I doubted for a while but decided to go for the well-known reasons I told last time.

All I can say is that I'm glad I went.

The meeting took place on neutral ground. First in a bar, then together to the restaurant.
I thought it was going to be a little awkward, especially after the long time we hadn't seen each other, but luckily everything felt very natural. I wasn't nervous at all, which was a sign to me that I'm much further along than I thought I was.

It however didn't surprise me that I didn't see much of MLC H, but that G was present for almost the entire evening. (I know this sounds weird to non-MLC believers, but those who do will understand what I'm talking about)

The conversation was positive and constructive. In the beginning we talked a lot about the children, of course he was also quite curious about my life, but I only shared information in broad terms.

I especially noticed that he really wants to do his very best to restore the relationship with his children. He knows this will be a process that will take a long time, and even used the following sentence:
I know all too well that it is much harder to glue a vase back together than to break it. I will continue to message them on a regular basis, and will be patient until they are willing to let me back into their lives.

He says he realizes very well what he has done to all of us, that this has been strongly present in the last 5 weeks. Since then, he has tried to be consistent in his behaviour. (he used those words)
He's tired of constantly having those highs and lows and having that destructive behaviour. (turns out that this has certainly not improved in recent months, so also not after his departure in February to OW2).

He also said that at the end of May, after reading S17's religion task, he completely freaked out. Apparently he was abroad with a friend but spent 3 days in his bed because of this. Could drink hardly anything (you know G has developed a serious alcohol problem) because after 2 drinks completely drunk, extremely ill, hallucinations, etc.

He has also been to the doctor several times to have blood tests because he thinks he has a serious illness. (blood results are always OK though)

So it seems that his rock bottom has been reached this time, although one never knows for sure.

Ultimately, time will tell if this means he'll come out for the better.

Last week, for the first time in more than 3 years, he has spent a full day with his father. He said he had very good conversations with his Dad and that he missed this som much the past years. His father recommended him a good psychiatrist. He says he will make an appointment but we all know that they will say whatever we want to hear so I’m very cautious about that.

Said he will do everything he can to get back to being the happy old person and father he was. My FIL told me afterwards that his words seemed sincere, that he would do everything he could to restore the relationship with his children and with me.

However, there were also short moments when MLC H came up, and then I have to say that I am really glad that I no longer have to be confronted with that on a regular basis and happy that I simply can go back to my own life, that this is not my burden to carry anymore.

He didn't say a word about OW2. Although she doesn't currently live with him (anymore), that much is clear. Which I find quite good since OW2 is a no go for the children at the moment so her not being in his life on a constant basis will perhaps help them to find a way to their father again.

We left on time, he hadn't had much to drink for the first time in 3 years! so no drunken talk at all.

He walked with me to my bike because he thought it was dangerous that I went home alone and asked if I could certainly send a message when I was home because otherwise he wouldn’t be able to sleep. (remember that 7 weeks ago S17 cycled home alone after they met whereby he was completely drunk…small note… I did say to him that this is no longer possible next time)

When I left he gave me big hug and asked me to please keep in touch with him. I replied that this was certainly possible in function of the children, as long as this was in a positive and constructive way (same as the evening we had just now)

Most of all, I'm relieved, relieved for myself that I'm finally there. The fear, the anxiety in front of him has completely disappeared. Today I look at him as my ex-husband and I am sincerely at peace with that.

Yes, I still love him, but the feeling of love has taken another dimension.
I can’t explain it differently.

[Elbereth]

Most of all, I'm relieved, relieved for myself that I'm finally there. The fear, the anxiety in front of him has completely disappeared. Today I look at him as my ex-husband and I am sincerely at peace with that.

This!

El

[DnJ]

Good Morning Eagle

I’m glad diner went well and you found the meeting worthy.

It however didn't surprise me that I didn't see much of MLC H, but that G was present for almost the entire evening. (I know this sounds weird to non-MLC believers, but those who do will understand what I'm talking about)

Nice to hear that G was present and remained for the majority of the time. (And you get what I mean by that.)

I especially noticed that he really wants to do his very best to restore the relationship with his children. He knows this will be a process that will take a long time, and even used the following sentence:
I know all too well that it is much harder to glue a vase back together than to break it.

Now, that is an interesting and notable statement.

His realization and admission of his actions; his desire to make reparations; his effort to remain consistent in his behaviour (his words); all positive steps for him.

I kind of figured S17’s religion task had an affect upon Dad. His telling you it completely freaked him out is further than I’d thought though. He has hovered and bounced off rock bottom before. Time will tell if it sticks. Hoping the best for him and the kids. And you.

Said he will do everything he can to get back to being the happy old person and father he was. My FIL told me afterwards that his words seemed sincere, that he would do everything he could to restore the relationship with his children and with me.

Words and actions. I hope they align.

I wasn't nervous at all, which was a sign to me that I'm much further along than I thought I was.

Most of all, I'm relieved, relieved for myself that I'm finally there. The fear, the anxiety in front of him has completely disappeared. Today I look at him as my ex-husband and I am sincerely at peace with that.

Wonderful!

It’s such a peace isn’t it?

Yes, I still love him, but the feeling of love has taken another dimension.
I can’t explain it differently.

Yep. Hard to describe. And a nice place to be.

D

[Eagle3]

Good afternoon,

Short update on the boys and in particular G' behaviour of these past days since our dinner.

Very active with messages on a daily basis in function of the kids and their school results. I did inform him gently about everything but went alone to the parental meetings with the teachers.
Kids didn't want him there as yet.

One message stuck out...

Hi, I'm going to look for a house to buy very near to the current house so please do not think that I'm stalking you. I simply answered, wouldn't come to my mind at all, good luck. Then the next day, I won't be coming in the area since the house is already sold to somebody else. I just said OK. (as if I have to know these things, I'm your ex-wife, remember :o)

Now quiet again towards me.

I don't know if I've already told you this but S17 is a very smart guy but one who hates to actually do something for it. In recent years it has therefore always become more difficult in school to maintain his good results, and he almost had to do his year over last year but they deliberated him and he was allowed to go to his senior year.
Despite the many attempts of the people around him and in particular myself to make him realize that he really has to study to make it this year he unfortunately did not, so he did not pass and has to do his senior year over. (however I do take the situation of the last few years with his father, as well as corona, into account)

S17 had actually already given up before his exams had started so I was already sure that it would turn out like this, S17 did as well, but it was harder to face reality than he expected.

G asked about it several times how S17 was doing and it seemed very sincere.
I always answered his messages. Also showing huge interest in the twins as well.

Although I was a bit dissapointed S17 simply gave up I do see this in a positive way now. Better that this is happening now than in college next year.
He needed to bang his head against the wall to show that you have nothing for nothing.

Normally, MLC H's response would have been completely over the top and he would be very judging towards S17. (see previous threads)
Even G would have had a lot of trouble with this.

But, nothing of that anymore. A complete different person now we are dealing with, one I have never seen before, not in all the years I have spent with him. I just want to say this is quite confusing. Who is this person?

He started to send very philosophical messages, this to the Twins14, but especially to S17.

Some examples:

- Remember that it are not your mistakes or failures that determine who you are, but how you pick yourself up and come out stronger.

- We love you and please don't let your self-image define you. It was and were shitty years but now you can show how strong you (and your brothers) really are.

- We always push our problems away from us until sometimes it explodes in our face and we can't find a way out (S17 is a lot like his F in that way, so therefore the "We" form)

- Life can hit us hard in the face and we can either bury our heads in the sand or learn and get better, the strength you need is inside you. We know that (mom, granddad and everyone, myself included) Now you just have to find it within and for yourself.

- See this as an extra opportunity and a lesson but above all not as a failure

S17 and myself think he has found his way towards a spiritual religion; I bet it is Buddhism.
(saw something which was paid by accident from an account which is still joint)
Could he really have started his spiritual journey and finally started working on himself?

I can only hope for him that this is the case.

I remain on my pad, had a great weekend with good friends. Visited an event in my home town where I was raised and lived until the age of 23 and saw a lot of people who I haven't seen in about 20 years.
Even here and there some flirting men around me, one in particular which was quite nice, but I don't have the interest to go into it today. I love my single life a bit too much currently.

I will honestly say that the events of the past 2 weeks with G did raise my interests in him a bit more. Not in a depressing or sad way, he is simply in my thoughts. I guess this is normal, wouldn't you think?

Have a nice Sunday.

E

[DnJ]

Hello Eagle

It is unfortunate that S17 didn’t buckle down and study like he needed to. I agree with you, that this lesson is better in his senior year than during college. Hopefully, son will realize the causality of it, and how he can control his actions and can directly affect his outcome.

It is interesting and positive to see Dad/G not loosing his cool and blowing his top with S17 over this.

A complete different person now we are dealing with, one I have never seen before, not in all the years I have spent with him. I just want to say this is quite confusing. Who is this person?

A different version of XH/G. Maybe even a better version of himself.

S17 and myself think he has found his way towards a spiritual religion; I bet it is Buddhism. (saw something which was paid by accident from an account which is still joint)
Could he really have started his spiritual journey and finally started working on himself?

His messages do tend towards a spiritual awakening. Spiritual need not necessitate religious, more a deeper look and understand of one’s beliefs and convictions. And encouraging and embracing values that serve. Of course, a stronger belief in the divine will likely be a positive thing. Belief in the divine is very likely when one find purpose, strength, and salvation that is attributable to beyond themselves. And yes, that would be working on himself. IMHO.

A crisis is a life transition gone into overdrive. G has had several positive encounters and events. Speaking with childhood counselor, seeing and visiting with his Dad, for example. He acknowledges his path and faults and desire to heal. Plenty of steps have been taken along his journey. I do hope he does not run back into the tunnel, and remains facing things. Those messages to kids, are also messages to himself.

I will honestly say that the events of the past 2 weeks with G did raise my interests in him a bit more. Not in a depressing or sad way, he is simply in my thoughts. I guess this is normal, wouldn't you think?

Perfectly normal Eagle.

Have a wonderful day.

D

[Eagle3]

It is unfortunate that S17 didn’t buckle down and study like he needed to. I agree with you, that this lesson is better in his senior year than during college. Hopefully, son will realize the causality of it, and how he can control his actions and can directly affect his outcome.

I hope so too. And if not his Mom will be there to "KHA" (won't spell it out LOL)

A different version of XH/G. Maybe even a better version of himself.

Yes, it actually is. Since the deed of the sale was unexpectedly postponed for 3 weeks and I have already bought a new home in the meantime he asked if he could support me in any way. Told him it would be difficult for a few weeks since all my current financial resources have gone to the new home already and didn't expect this, he spontaneously transferred money to support me temporarily as he doesn't want me to worry about that. I would rather not have done this given the situation but he insisted that he is the person to support me now. So I accepted and thanked him for this nice gesture.

Those messages to kids, are also messages to himself.

My thoughts exactly. He is like speaking to himself.

I will honestly say that the events of the past 2 weeks with G did raise my interests in him a bit more. Not in a depressing or sad way, he is simply in my thoughts. I guess this is normal, wouldn't you think?

Perfectly normal Eagle.

Thanks D.