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BL42 #2935611 07/05/22 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BL42
Fundraising for LH's friends at The Sundowner perhaps...
We raise funds to put the girls through college lol.


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T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
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DnJ #2935616 07/05/22 06:02 PM
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Good Morning

Originally Posted by LH19
So I know you are very detailed and analytical but I noticed you like to point out when J drops the ball. I am wondering if you were like that in your marriage?

I point out what happens. I suppose “like” is apt. Yes, J did does the ball and that gets plenty of air time, it is and has been the majority of her behaviour over the past few years. I did share that she was on time, early in fact, to the shower. That she dressed appropriately. My go to style, marriage included, is positive feedback more than negative. I’m more a hopeful glass half full kind of guy.

Originally Posted by LH19
Also, you have made the comment before that J said "Om let's her get away with whatever she wants". What do you suppose she thought you weren't letting her get away with in your marriage?

That was such a confusing thing. There was nothing she was not afforded. Her comment makes sense with the realization of her replaying her childhood; a rebellion against her parents / authority figure(s). I’d hazard a guess that her at the time newly found freedom to get away with things is referencing the running behaviours she needed or was driven to explore and embrace.

Originally Posted by LH19
Lastly, just curious why J wasn't invited to the supper?

Not sure which supper you are referring to, so I’ll talk about both. The supper between the shower and social: J wasn’t coming to the social. Her remaining around for a 7:00pm supper was therefore unlikely.

However, the basic underlying reason, which is more pertinent for the upcoming after dress rehearsal supper, S23 didn’t/doesn’t want her there. Son told me, he and GF have ensured everyone they wanted to invite could make it and have made arrangements for - accommodation, travel, physical aids, and such. J is simply just not on that list.

J’s exodus from their lives was brutal. I’ve impressed here many times how opposite she became. She is welcomed to the ceremony, not for the gathering of close family and friends. “Close” being a key thing here. Close family/friend doesn’t do what she did, or treat them the way she is.

There is no axe being ground here, no retribution. J is among the other relatives - aunts, uncles, cousins, and so on, is all.

I’ve said it several times. Adult kids have rights to their privacy and their lives. I do not have “rights” to see my adult kids. I have the “privilege” of seeing my adult kids. That kind of thinking makes a respectful relationship and is the next step from parent/child relationship to parent/adult relationship.

Kids are always observing. If one is honourable, acts with integrity, is responsibility and accountable, and so on, they will be treated as such. If one behaves differently; expect different results.


Eagle, that was my first Jack and Jill wedding shower. It was really quite good. I can see why this is becoming more and more the norm.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
How long haven't you seen her D? I assume this is already a few years now? Wasn't that awkward?
I'm curious about how you felt when you spoke to her about coming to the social.

The last time I saw J - other than her parked at the end of my lane or biking by, or some other lingering watching of family events here - was at daughter’s graduation two years ago.

There was a time when I felt quite awkward being out and about. Being freshly divorced and feeling like there is a huge arrow pointing at you. Like you did something do deserve this. It’s so heartbreaking how the one cheated on, feels they are at fault. Of course we do figure out what is what.

I no longer feel awkward or embarrassed or ashamed. Lol. I know my life. I am proud of how I handled myself, what I accomplished, the values I have, the wisdom gained; basically I’m really comfortable in my own skin.

I did feel a bit awkward for J. She sat there, with only her friend.

I was interested/curious about J not going to the social, so I brought it up. I was surprised at her last minute change of heart.

I figured / felt that was a good thing to bring up. It demonstrated I am aware of her and her life; am involved in the wedding and the kids’ lives; and it kindly broke the ice and paved a bit of a road for later. I did not have any plan to do so, or to even discuss any particular topic. Just roll with whatever happens.

J’s red crying eyes, her realizing she should be involved or make a forced effort, was a good indicator that she was probably open to some interaction.

How did I feel? Hmmmm. I felt not greatly invested in whatever her answer was. Her attending or not will have little affect upon me or my day.

My biggest feeling and thought was something J said during bomb drop. “You will now always see me as a cheater.” She’s right. I mean that is what happened. My friends don’t treat me like J treated me.

I do feel open to feeling more, if that makes sense. However, two years of no contact, and coming up on five years of incredibly little contact - like so dim, she is such a vanisher; for me to feel more J would need to reach out somewhat. Without conversation, things just die.

Something that was very apparent and felt within: I am standing/living for me and my values. J is not someone I’m currently standing for.


Originally Posted by Ginger1
I still can’t get over fundraising for a wedding. That’s got to be a very Canadian thing

It is a pretty common Canadian thing. Socials get put on for all kinds of fundraising ventures - local hockey team, theatre upgrades, etc. However, the common social is a wedding social. A time of friends and well wishers to support and come together and have a good time. For the majority of folks it’s just a good reason to drink and dance. Lol. Fundraising just happens.

Personally, I’m ok with fundraising outcome of the dance. However, if one needs to fundraise to get married, they need to lower their expectations of their wedding day. If you can’t afford to get married, then don’t.

S23 and GF didn’t need to fundraise, though it certainly helps. It’s the hundred folks who attended and danced and drank and had a good time that looked forward to it, that the social is put on for. And of course, making a few thousand dollars along the way is a good thing. And renting the hall, employing the sound man, etc, all helps the community too. Ha, Canadians. Eh?


And no LH, a bachelor party in these parts is not fundraising. Usually funds spending. smile

By the way, how were we going go have a philosophical discussion at The Sundowner? I didn’t realize the establishment was one of such distraction. Haha.


Andrew, no chivaree planned. I had to look that up, and I’ve never heard of such a thing. That could certainly get loud!

Luckily my son and GF are having a smaller wedding. Some coworkers have spent small fortunes on their kid’s weddings. I like parties, but one that costs 25% of a house is ridiculous in my opinion.

Well, back to the upstairs flooring project.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2935617 07/05/22 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DnJ
Andrew, no chivaree planned. I had to look that up, and I’ve never heard of such a thing. That could certainly get loud!
I'm surprised. I thought it was a pretty common rural thing. Perhaps more so in my area in years gone past.

Contrary to what you may have seen in an online dictionary, what we consider a chivaree here is essentially when people come to the bride and groom's house and have a party. Neglecting to inform their hosts first. Bonus points are given for bursting in on them "a flagrante delicto".

If there's nobody there to host the party, it will happen anyway occasionally with destructive results which is why some people who are going away for their honeymoon will get a friend to house-sit.

I know for my oldest brother that he made sure that nobody knew where they were going for the wedding night to prevent anything "unduly" exciting from happening.

Not nearly as common as they were 30+ years ago I suppose.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
DnJ #2935618 07/05/22 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DnJ
And no LH, a bachelor party in these parts is not fundraising. Usually funds spending. smile
In my parts all ticket sales go to the groom. Groom gets a rake of every black jack/poker hand. All booze is donated by the groomsmen and strippers are optional.
Originally Posted by DnJ
By the way, how were we going go have a philosophical discussion at The Sundowner? I didn’t realize the establishment was one of such distraction. Haha.
You would be surprised by the philosophical conversations had in the back room. Nothing starts it out better than me asking "how do I keep my daughter off the pole?" lol.


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DnJ #2935620 07/05/22 07:24 PM
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DnJ,
Originally Posted by DnJ
There was a time when I felt quite awkward being out and about. Being freshly divorced and feeling like there is a huge arrow pointing at you. Like you did something do deserve this. It’s so heartbreaking how the one cheated on, feels they are at fault. Of course we do figure out what is what.
I can relate to this. Definitely still feel it at times, not knowing what people know about my situation or think about me in relation to the D...despite that as the LBS I wasn't the one who had an affair and broke up my family. I gotta get better about not caring what people think and also realizing probably many people are worried about their own priorities and don't even have my sitch on their mind!

Originally Posted by DnJ
I no longer feel awkward or embarrassed or ashamed. Lol. I know my life. I am proud of how I handled myself, what I accomplished, the values I have, the wisdom gained; basically I’m really comfortable in my own skin.
That's great.

Originally Posted by DnJ
I was interested/curious about J not going to the social, so I brought it up. I was surprised at her last minute change of heart.
I was surprised when I read you did bring it up, and wondered if you hadn't if she may have skipped it...maybe your comment the impetus for her to change her mind?

Originally Posted by DnJ
My biggest feeling and thought was something J said during bomb drop. “You will now always see me as a cheater.” She’s right. I mean that is what happened. My friends don’t treat me like J treated me.
Yep. It's impossible to erase the past.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
LH19 #2935621 07/05/22 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by DnJ
And no LH, a bachelor party in these parts is not fundraising. Usually funds spending. smile
In my parts all ticket sales go to the groom. Groom gets a rake of every black jack/poker hand. All booze is donated by the groomsmen and strippers are optional.
I've never heard of a bachelor party fundraiser - typically the guys attending chip in extra for the grooms share of whatever trip or activity is planned so he doesn't have a cost - but I like the idea of taking a rake of the card game.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
BL42 #2935643 07/06/22 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BL42
DnJ,
Originally Posted by DnJ
There was a time when I felt quite awkward being out and about. Being freshly divorced and feeling like there is a huge arrow pointing at you. Like you did something do deserve this. It’s so heartbreaking how the one cheated on, feels they are at fault. Of course we do figure out what is what.
I can relate to this. Definitely still feel it at times, not knowing what people know about my situation or think about me in relation to the D...despite that as the LBS I wasn't the one who had an affair and broke up my family. I gotta get better about not caring what people think and also realizing probably many people are worried about their own priorities and don't even have my sitch on their mind!

yup. I kept our sitch completely on the down low for months and months and months. my boss knew, my three closest neighbors who were like family knew. my brother from another mother knew. no one else, not even my parents. for months. I remember being at our son's baseball game and having another parent blindside me by mentioning it. The only way he knew was because my exh told him. Like he was bragging about his trashing of our family. I took the advice in Michele's book very seriously - don't talk about it so it's easier for him to come home if he wants to do so. Plus you don't have to listen to friends and family tell you what they'd do in your sitch.

Our son told NO ONE for THREE YEARS. Think about that. Not even his best friend since age 7 knew. He wouldn't let his friends come over. He would meet them somewhere away from our old house. One day he and his best friend were driving somewhere and the best friend drove by our old house. The new owners had painted it a grotesque color - son't best friend asked why we painted our house that color. That's when my son said we'd sold it, and finally told him what had been going on. Can you imagine the amount of pain my son was in, to keep that from his best friend? To not tell ANYONE for three YEARS??? My son said he didn't want anyone's pity.

I don't know about anyone else, but for me - hey, I'm an adult. I entered this marriage knowing the statistics and risks. But my son? He didn't ask for any of this. He deserved a whole family with two loving parents who supported him and each other, not the $h!t$torm he ended up with. If there's one thing more than anything else that would forever stop me from standing it is the willful pain my ex caused our son, and his terming that collateral damage. What an absolute piece of garbage.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16

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Walk along the side of the road with a bag & you're gonna end up with a lot of trash!
DnJ #2935644 07/06/22 03:01 PM
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Good Morning

Andrew, yes the online definition is different. I have heard of the house party, and various pranks that often occurred in the martial home. Flour in the air conditioner vents so when the happy couple turns on the window shaker - poof! Rearranging all the furniture, or putting it outside, or removing all the labels from the food items, etc., etc. They range from minor joke to major destruction, well the “unattended” consequences do. Ah, booze fuelled fun; sounded like a good idea at the time. Lol.

This practice was common in my parent’s time. My Dad’s car had its spark plug wires removed by the wedding party and reinstallation of the wiring by the drunken pranksters had it misfire and bend a couple of push rods and mess up some valves. An expensive car repair, and being stranded - oh what a great time.

My wedding had only some rice in our bed.

Present day, I haven’t heard of these shenanigans as a thing. Perhaps it died out. Or I’m out of the loop.


LH, interesting the groom getting a take of all action.

Bachelor parties around these parts are like BL said. Basically, the stereotypical bachelor party, is a booze-fest of which the groom just doesn’t pay for anything. And the activities depend upon those involved. My son and his crew had a house party, drank lots, played cards and video games. No drunk driving, no police, no trips to the hospital. Lol. It’s become more the norm it seems. Hmmm, perhaps some wisdom is passing down from generation to generation.


Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by DnJ
There was a time when I felt quite awkward being out and about. Being freshly divorced and feeling like there is a huge arrow pointing at you. Like you did something to deserve this. It’s so heartbreaking how the one cheated on, feels they are at fault. Of course we do figure out what is what.

I can relate to this. Definitely still feel it at times, not knowing what people know about my situation or think about me in relation to the D...despite that as the LBS I wasn't the one who had an affair and broke up my family. I gotta get better about not caring what people think and also realizing probably many people are worried about their own priorities and don't even have my sitch on their mind!

I do understand and empathize. Presented a divorced couple, the prejudice default belief, given no other information, usually blames the guy. Of course, statistically non-correct as typical cheating requires two, so an equal number of guilty gal too; not withstanding same sex, EA, etc.

Prejudice is ugly. And rather common. Divorce, race, politics, and so on. Them vs us.

I can’t control what people think about me. Or want to believe about me. I can demonstrate who I am. Maybe even inspire a change within someone.

To that end, I looked at my beliefs and prejudices, and discarded and altered that which didn’t serve. Present me a situation without further or corroborating evidence, it is just that, a situation. Becoming nonjudgemental is a lifetime work in progress.

It’s less about not caring what others think/believe, and more of caring what you think/believe. We all view the world through our own lens. And we therefore project upon the world. I know, accept, and love my life. It outwardly shows, and shines if I do say so. And I see others in a likewise light. That reciprocates and reflects back.

Oh, and folks are pretty involved in their own lives and priorities so we are just a blip on their radar. Lol. That’s the point though, our path is about us.

Originally Posted by BL42
I was surprised when I read you did bring it up, and wondered if you hadn't if she may have skipped it...maybe your comment the impetus for her to change her mind?

I hadn’t considered that. You may be correct.

I’m always amazed at how one can affect another. At times the largest efforts yields nothing, and other times a simple kind gesture will make a world of difference. A smile and a few kind words can alter someone’s entire world.


Bttrfly, wow! Three years!

I never had the decision to make, nor the opportunity, to follow Michelle’s advice and not talk about my situation. J went nuclear, flagrantly and unabashedly flaunted her promiscuousness about town. Oh, she was so absolutely sure of her new shinny life and love.

Myself, for a couple of months, I “needed” to tell my side. Grief, ego, denial, stunned, shock, bewilderment, shame, blame, etc, quite a cocktail of mixed up emotions dragged me around. My kids and parents were present at bomb drop, and J was telling and demonstrating to the towns folk; the genie was out of the bottle, or the mushroom cloud was out of the uranium pellet - whichever is more apt.

My kids went to school the next day after BD and asked to have a minute in front of the class to speak to their classmates. Daughter and son each informed their teacher and fellow students of what was going on. (That had to be such a shock to the staff.) I was so proud of them. Am so proud of them!

Lots of positives came from such open and ground floor communication. There isn’t a better way to limit the rumour mill’s churning, than telling the facts. Mind you, J’s factual and displayed behaviour was more rumour-esk than most over-the-top gossip would come up with.

My “need” to tell and defend eventual subsided. I found my way, as we all do. Better not bitter, and such. And the peace that acceptance brings. (Kids too, as it turns out. Role model and all.)

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2935672 07/06/22 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DnJ
Myself, for a couple of months, I “needed” to tell my side. Grief, ego, denial, stunned, shock, bewilderment, shame, blame, etc, quite a cocktail of mixed up emotions dragged me around. My kids and parents were present at bomb drop, and J was telling and demonstrating to the towns folk; the genie was out of the bottle, or the mushroom cloud was out of the uranium pellet - whichever is more apt.

I think that is a pretty astute description of the "bargaining" stage of grief....

As painful as it was....also the first step in moving into what you are now....

DnJ #2935810 07/08/22 07:58 PM
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Ah, bargaining. I found that landscape such a strange, yet oddly correct, experience.

Negotiating with my emotional self. Desperately trying to hang on to the last shreds of “normal”. Eventually, the negotiating fails, and the loss is fully realized, and depression sets in.

Yep, a necessary and painful part of the path.

Working through depression, one finds accepting the loss of their old “normal”, and accepting their new normal. Again, like all the stages, not a defined delimitation point, rather a nebulous shift occurs.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
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