I'm Back after 1st DB (4)

[Josh71]

Traveler, thanks for the support. Makes sense, I don't see any family events for the foreseeable future. If she asks, I'll probably agree, but I'll park that idea for now.

We are about to announce S to the kids, and I have no clue how they will respond. At least we've agreed on how to communicate the news, which is a positive step since to date we've hardly agreed on anything. No matter the truth, we've agreed to communicate that the decision mutual, to say that we love them very much, and to say not much else. If they ask questions, we'll be honest, but otherwise they need time to accept this big change.

It's all happening. I'm not afraid of the future, and I'm very clear on my next steps and where I want to go in my next chapter of my life.

[BL42]

toughtimes180,

Why feel terrible? She is a crazy WAW/WW who is writing bullshit cards to tug on your heart strings while she’s simultaneously smashing your marriage and family onto the rocks.

Agreed. That card was BS and I would've been offended receiving it. Don't set up some manipulation attempt to get her to react, but also don't lose sleep worrying about her reaction to it either.

If you keep the card, get emotional and tell her how much you love her and having a family with her - she thinks you’re weak, knows you’re a backup plan, and so is encouraged to continue with a no-consequence divorce -monkey branching 101.

If you bin the card, she tells her friends and family you’re an unemotional, rude [censored] - and they validate her that she’s doing the right thing because she shouldn’t have to live with someone like that.

See the theme here - IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU DO, you’re wrong in her eyes, and she’ll twist it to justify what she is doing.

So why keep trying to be right when you know you’re only ever going to be wrong?

Better to put that energy into you, than into an impossible task.

^This is spot on. So many times the LBS is in a lose-lose situation. No matter what they do, the WS/WAS thinks they acted wrong and are awful. The only way for the LBS to win is not play the game.

ATM, she's ghosting me (which is nice), and is organising family events without me and D2 (I look after D2 while D1 and S have times with her)

If you can switch to a normal parenting schedule this melts away entirely. You go do things with all the children, or she goes and does things with all the children, no coordination.

I agree with Traveler. You and STBXW working out a defined plan on kid coverage would help a great deal. If you D, going forward it's going to be your time with the kids and her time with the kids. Not a mix of switching between them. There may be an occasional situation where one of you takes one kids to a specific event and the other covers, but that'll be an exception. You two really need to work out a custody plan. Having that will avoid confusion and also allow you to GAL.

When we go down the path of a parenting plan, I'm prepared for disappointment because of the age of D2.

Can you clarify what you mean here?

Now she's purposely ignoring me and organising events with S and D1, or D2 and D1, but not all three (too much effort IMHO).

That's not going to work moving forward. In terms of the kids it'll be all or nothing.

It does seem that since we both agree on D, and she's making an effort to exclude me, that I don't factor her into anything.

That's going to happen. That's what a D is.

But let me do it with just the kids, and not her.

Yep, think it's best to assume things are going to be that way moving forward.

She's still trying to pick fights to the point where D1 says "I never said that, you are exaggerating Mom."

I'm confused. A 1yo said that?

I'm so thrilled to get back in touch with old friends, and to GAL like 300% more than where I was two months ago.

Great!

We are about to announce S to the kids, and I have no clue how they will respond.

Would you clarify exactly how many kids you have and what their ages are? Maybe I'm confused but if they're 1yo and 2yos there's likely no much reaction or a big emotional conversation that would happen with kids much older. Have you read resources on handling this conversation with kids their age?

[Josh71]

D1 is 11 years old. She was pretty cool with the announcement, and very mature about the response. Said as long as we're happy, that's ok. She even said better to be separated and happy, than miserable and together. S, who is 8, took it hard.

What I'm trying to say about the kids is that D2 is just over 1. And because the kids can't be split, it's going to be hard to get any sleep over time with D1 and S, unless STBXW agrees. The court doesn't like splitting families, and I'm not willing to risk D2 with sleepovers given the potential impact later in life. So with that decision, and I know that the board here says go for 50/50, I'll probably have limited sleep overs with D1 and S.

In any event, I'm off to chat with a 3rd L and see what they say about settlement and custody. After seeing three Ls, I should have a good sense as to who I'm comfortable with.

[BL42]

toughtimes180,

I understand the kids' ages now. I'm used to the convention of S or D with the age afterwards (E.g., D11, S8, D1) as opposed to S1 for 1st son or D2 for 2nd daughter, so I thought you were saying you had a 2yo daughter, 1yo son, and 1yo daughter.

D1 is 11 years old. She was pretty cool with the announcement, and very mature about the response. Said as long as we're happy, that's ok. She even said better to be separated and happy, than miserable and together.

Glad to hear she took it well. Continue to monitor her closely going into the teenage years.

S, who is 8, took it hard.

Sorry, that's hard. He'll probably have a tough time for awhile but it'll get better over time.

What I'm trying to say about the kids is that D2 is just over 1. And because the kids can't be split, it's going to be hard to get any sleep over time with D1 and S, unless STBXW agrees. The court doesn't like splitting families, and I'm not willing to risk D2 with sleepovers given the potential impact later in life. So with that decision, and I know that the board here says go for 50/50, I'll probably have limited sleep overs with D1 and S.

Again, IMO you're making too big a deal about D1 switching sleepovers. My now-D3 was 1yo when W moved out and handled the sleepovers fine. I continue to stress you should go for 50/50 in days and nights. All of your children should get used to sleeping at Mommy's and Daddy's. You do not want to set the precedent they sleep at mommy's regularly and just visit daddy. Just my $0.02. I've said this to you several times now, so I'll shut up about it going forward.

In any event, I'm off to chat with a 3rd L and see what they say about settlement and custody. After seeing three Ls, I should have a good sense as to who I'm comfortable with.

Good. It's great your consulting multiple Ls. That knowledge is critical.

[Josh71]

BL42, the reason I'm making a big deal is that D1 has trouble sleeping anywhere but home. All the research I've seen indicates that it's not recommended for under 4. She will have issues transitioning when she first moves out to Mom. Maybe as a starting point I can try daytime naps. I do feel guilty asking for 50/50 knowing it could cause emotional harm down the track. It's not out of fear of STBXW, or fear that I'm not capable. It's what is best for the child.

I understand your point and I'm glad to hear that it works for you. I'm open to changing my thinking on this, if I'm missing another pov.

[PeterB]

STBXW sent me an anniversary card saving she loves me and thanks me for the wonderful family we created. It was actually touching. It was even a greeting card specifically for Exs.

I did say thanks and walked away, but not sure if I respond later, if at all.

I wanted to respond to this earlier so apologies for the delay. I think what you got here is a selfish attempt at making herself feel good. If you really felt "it was actually touching", then you have done a disservice to yourself Imho. You are in a particularly difficult sitch and I'm sorry to say that I think your WW has treated you quite poorly and you need to give primacy to that treatment. Once you do that you'll see her actions in a different light. To me the right response would be anywhere between complete indifference to actually throwing the card into the bin without much ado soon after reading it. No need to even say thanks imho. My WW told me a few weeks after BD that she will still give me gifts after D. At that time I told her that neither would I need anything from her nor should she give me anything. Fast forward a few months, I won't even respond to anything of that nature.

[Josh71]

PeterB,

If you read the rest of the thread, there is some drama there, but I did bin it, and then as luck had it, she discovered as I was taking D1 out for a stroll. To clarify, it was touching in the sense that it was well written. But it's not that I felt moved, other than pissed off.

In any event, WW made a big deal in front of the kids that she's telling her entire family that we've separated. She's also back to her critique of any little thing that I do wrong, or whatever is wrong in her mind at that exact moment. I'm not reacting, but it's a good reminder of the toxicity of my M.

I had an awesome GAL with S8, 6 hour hike. I'm physically exhausted in a good way.

In a bad way, STBXW has reneged on her promise to attend my recommended settlement service. The one time where I think she actually compromised, she hasn't. It's frustrating, but it looks more and more like L will have to negotiate.

[PeterB]

PeterB,
But it's not that I felt moved, other than pissed off.

That's great.

In any event, WW made a big deal in front of the kids that she's telling her entire family that we've separated.

It is unnecessary to make a big deal in front of the kids and imho this can lead to negative effects on them. Btw, watch out for her trying to make you the villain in your children's eyes. It does not matter if they already have figured her out - she may still try to salvage some reputation out of this. Based on some reading my understanding is that WWs are especially keen on making the children believe that the father is the villain.

She's also back to her critique of any little thing that I do wrong, or whatever is wrong in her mind at that exact moment. I'm not reacting, but it's a good reminder of the toxicity of my M.

Take this reminder as a blessing. My WW is hypercritical of everything I do wrong (wrong in her eyes). Yesterday she informed me tersely that she washed all the dishes (there were two of them and some spoons/forks, nothing of mine). And then added angrily that she had to do it only because I did not clear the dishwasher. We had just come back from a weekend activity one hour earlier, and I was fully occupied with housework after that while she was having her dinner. So, I didn't get the time to clear the dishwasher. Yet she thought that was a big problem. I was left wondering if she was really ignoring that I was busy (and hence deliberately nasty) or if she genuinely didn't see me running about across the floors doing multiple things. I assessed if the priority of things I did was wrong, but it was not. I also noted that clearing the dishwasher was neither on the agenda at that time nor did she request me to clear it. This is toxicity, and even more so post BD - pre-D. For LBS such as us, facing these situations while being able to identify them for what they are, allows us to put things in perspective while making our own decisions.

[Ready2Change]

Yesterday she informed me tersely that she washed all the dishes (there were two of them and some spoons/forks, nothing of mine). And then added angrily that she had to do it only because I did not clear the dishwasher. We had just come back from a weekend activity one hour earlier, and I was fully occupied with housework after that while she was having her dinner. So, I didn't get the time to clear the dishwasher. Yet she thought that was a big problem. I was left wondering if she was really ignoring that I was busy (and hence deliberately nasty) or if she genuinely didn't see me running about across the floors doing multiple things. I assessed if the priority of things I did was wrong, but it was not. I also noted that clearing the dishwasher was neither on the agenda at that time nor did she request me to clear it. This is toxicity, and even more so post BD - pre-D. For LBS such as us, facing these situations while being able to identify them for what they are, allows us to put things in perspective while making our own decisions.

Looks like a missed opportunity to validate her emotions.

There is much more to her anger than it appears on the surface.

W (tersely):"I washed all the dishes"
H:"Thank you. I appreciate how you keep the house clean."
W(angrily):"I had to do it only because you did not clear the dishwasher"
H:"You sound angry"
W (even more angry)"of course i am angry..(more words from her)"
H"I can see why that made you angry"

Let her be as angry as she wants. Show her you can "handle" her emotions. You stay calm and listen. Switch your thought process from arguing or justifying to She wants to be heard and understood.


The old timers here talked about "putting on your rain coat" and let the emotions from the spouse fly. I was ready for my X to do this, but she never did. She was already checked out. Put your raincoat on. Set boundaries when she is disrespectful.

[kml]

She could have simply said:
"hey, it's your turn to unload the dishwasher. Would you mind taking a break from what you're doing and do that so I can put my dishes in?"

Or - she could have rinsed her dishes and left them in the sink, or she could have unloaded the dishwasher herself.

Just trying to hold up a mirror of what "normal" behavior would look like.