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Originally Posted by Dawn70
You change directions more times than I change clothes on any given day.
Jan = Dating K. Feb = Dating K. Mar - Dating K. Apr - Dating K. May - Dating K.

I get you likely expected big changes after I was frustrated K forced me to spend or entrust her with a small fortune AND showed a financial irresponsibility red flag. However, (1) she returned the money and (2) she plans to leave in 1-2 months. Issues resolved. That put the relationship side of life back on easy street and freed my energy to focus elsewhere. To me, my daughter's AP exams and my charity event and who it helps are far more important than dating relationships.

Originally Posted by Dawn70
I don't even know what to comment because I was literally astonished that K told people you were dating and you seemed happy/excited about that.
No, I didn't feel that way. In the moment, I felt nothing, because I was focused on the event and my goals for the event. Managing such a big event takes a lot of energy! It was afterward when I was enjoying a margarita that I realized what had happened and saw the humor in the situation. I chuckled because (1) I saw the pattern of Ms. Sunshine "claiming" me at a prior event, and (2) it was ironic K was turning away women when she is about to leave me herself.



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Well, CW, as I just said on someone else's post, I think I need a translator or some other way to keep up because I forget details then the story gets a little discombobulated in my head. Throw in all the stress for my own work situation right now that has my brain all mushy and it is like a rat's nest up in there.

Yay for your being able to focus on D's AP exams though. I know that was important to her and to you. Good job on that, dad!


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
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I will address the charge I encourage cheating.

For me, if one spouse says they want out, and the other is unopposed, they are released from their vows. For others, vows only end when the Catholic Church annuls it or court battles end.

Originally Posted by tt180
I know MR is finished. Why would I want this W back who has left me 3x now?
Originally Posted by Traveler
Yes--then the marriage is finished for now. The DB approach, "I don't want this divorce, but I won't stand in your way" assumes a desire to save the marriage, whereas you've sounded ambivalent.
Originally Posted by tt180
looking at International flights (to visit ex lover I suspect.
Originally Posted by Traveler
Makes sense? You're throwing in the towel. She deserves pursuing sexual satisfaction and happiness.

I've been on Josh's thread for years, first as CW and then as T. What those new to his thread may not know, is that tt180 is not rewriting history. Disrespect and no connection (his issue), and low quality and frequency of sex (her issue) have been front and center for years. They attended therapy for months. They hit an impasse. They felt the impasse was a sword worth the marriage dying on.

For me, one of the first steps in any situation is asking do they want to stand. Was there abuse? Was there cheating? Was this their 3rd time? I felt tt180's best options were to focus on his issues to save his marriage OR let go and each find their happy elsewhere. Marriage shouldn't be toxic indefinitely. He deserves to feel respected, to feel a deep connection. She deserves a sex life.



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PS - Butterfly and I have each agreed not to post on each other's threads. I do not plan to debate the advice I gave last week with anyone, I just wanted to state the actual message and context once for those interested.



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Traveler,

Your explanation here of your comments on toughtimes180's is well thought out and reasoned. I read it over a few times and understand your perspective much better now. You're saying that because tt180 and his wife both agree the marriage is over and because of that it makes sense she would seek out sexual satisfaction because that was a significant complaint of hers for years. That does seem more reasonable and I get where you're coming from.

However, I wonder if you also could see things from my (and others') perspective on three points:

1) toughtimes180 has been back and forth on his thread regarding the issue of "being done" recently. Myself and others are not convinced he truly believes it deep down. If his W didn't go have an affair and could address his issues it seems like he wouldn't want the D. So I'm not sure they're "released of their vows" as you would put it.

Originally Posted by tt180
looking at International flights (to visit ex lover I suspect.
Originally Posted by Traveler
Makes sense? You're throwing in the towel. She deserves pursuing sexual satisfaction and happiness.

2) Hopefully you can understand how I (and multiple other posters) read this as "she's not happy so it's cool if she flies off to have an affair". Maybe there's context in this particular situation but not exactly something that would help a LBS struggling with his or her marriage and certainly something LBS's (most of whom has spouses who had affairs) would object to.

Originally Posted by Traveler
For me, if one spouse says they want out, and the other is unopposed, they are released from their vows.

3) Another way to read this is vows are meaningless. No one says "until death do us part...unless we both change our minds". Marriage is meant to be a lifetime commitment and traditionally the vows explicitly call out "for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health". So this view does not exactly sound "pro-marriage" or in the vein of MWD Divorce Busting. It's reasonable for folks here to take objection to that comment/advice. It's also easy to understand that if this take on vows really is becoming the norm how the traditional concept of marriage is dead. To LH's point: "It's comments like this that solidify my stance that marriage is a joke."

Originally Posted by Traveler
I felt tt180's best options were to focus on his issues to save his marriage OR let go and each find their happy elsewhere. Marriage shouldn't be toxic indefinitely. He deserves to feel respected, to feel a deep connection. She deserves a sex life.
^Hard to disagree with this.


Anyway, you don't need to respond - I don't want to get into a debate about it either - just thought you'd like to know I appreciate your explanation and better understand your viewpoint, and also offer you better insight/explanation into my (and I think others') views on the matter.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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CW if you posted “ you know what I thought about it and I probably shouldn’t have said that”. Everyone one would probably be like “ok cool”.

A lame justification well is just that lame.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
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My BFF's brother shot himself tonight. It's amazing how quickly a weekend can turn.



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OMG T, how tragic.

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Oh my....that is awful!


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
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Originally Posted by Valeska
Sticking around K is serving a purpose for you. What is it? And is it more valuable to finding a stable loving relationship? Where you put your time and effort is where you will see the change. The decision is up to you.
I know what it is! I'm learning what *stable* feels like. In most of my relationships, small choices--like whether to pick up a kebab with my fingers or a fork--had dramatic consequences! I feel the message from K is consistent, "I want to remain your GF, but a home for my kid comes first!" Putting my foot in my mouth is a "Don't do that again." moment, not a cataclysm. This is the first person I can recall dating with a secure attachment style and it's enlightening.



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