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Why oh WHY did you have a conversation with her? Or go out to dinner? Complete waste of time.

You want her to THINK she can’t get dinner with you. When she asks, say no, I have plans, and then leave the house.

Once you agreed to dinner, and engaged in a conversation, the damage was done. After that point, it doesn’t matter what you said or did - nothing was going to stop her going berserk.

STOP STICKING YOUR FINGER IN THE POWERPOINT.

“How do you feel about leaving me last night?”

“Haven’t really thought about it. Anyway, I’m off to the gym!”

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Josh, Recognizing you control how are you discipline the children, and she controls how she disciplines the children. That’s the answer to almost any question where you’re asking how you can control her behavior. You only control your behavior.

You are doubtless feeling the loss of control. Can you also see it for her speaking up about her preferences when it comes to disciplining the children? Do you think she may have a point in some situations? This is another opportunity to take some time to cool down, be curious about her perspective, and find common ground. Alternatively, you could vent, and lose even more control.

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Originally Posted by Kind18
Why oh WHY did you have a conversation with her? Or go out to dinner? Complete waste of time.

You want her to THINK she can’t get dinner with you. When she asks, say no, I have plans, and then leave the house.

Once you agreed to dinner, and engaged in a conversation, the damage was done. After that point, it doesn’t matter what you said or did - nothing was going to stop her going berserk.

STOP STICKING YOUR FINGER IN THE POWERPOINT.

“How do you feel about leaving me last night?”

“Haven’t really thought about it. Anyway, I’m off to the gym!”

Thanks, this is the sort of thing I can't get my head around. It's also hard when I have kids in the house, but I guess I could just say I'm going for a walk, and be back in 30 minutes.

Yes, I am sticking my finger in the PowerPoint. As I said, it was a crafty move on her part, as we had a common function to go to, and we were rather early. The better option would have been to say, no I just want to go early, no dinner. Or, we should take separate cars because I have to go after.

Actually, when her Mom came to look after the kids, I could have just left and said "see you there."

The problem I have with this approach I have generally, is I can't just walk out when I have child duties. But I can certainly do that after D2 is in bed, the older kids are fine on their own.

In any event, I'm refreshed today as I spent yesterday decluttering the house. I fell asleep exhausted. She sent an email on detailed financials, which I'll reply in a couple of days. It was intertwined with emotional "facts" and of course not in line with what L said. Rather than put it all out, I'm leading her towards where I'm going with each point. She's not dumb, she will see right through it, so it will give her time to accept the outcome. We have plenty of time before the house sells, which is went all this needs to be agreed on.

Originally Posted by Traveler
You are doubtless feeling the loss of control. Can you also see it for her speaking up about her preferences when it comes to disciplining the children? Do you think she may have a point in some situations?
Yes, many times I feel loss of control, and many times I feel her perspective is valid. But no to setting boundaries with kids and sticking to consequences. See, the pattern of not sticking to boundaries applies to the kids as well. But I get it. I just reminded her that punishment should start at the time of the infraction, not allow the kids to indulge for the rest of the day, and then apply the consequences the next day. Her response was classic "You weren't there, and I forgot."


Me: 47 w/ S10, D12, D3
Current T: 12; M: 11 years; BD1: 11-11-18; BD2: 22-04-22; STBXW: 41
Previous M: 4 years; Big D: 2004; XW: 48
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Fark, IHS DBing is mentally exhausting. I've had the perfect db day. Delaying the response to smses, ignoring pointless messages, setting boundaries on vague requests for child minding, ignoring subtly hostile comments, rebuffed attempts at emotional unloads, and dealing with 30 minutes of her just disappearing in her room while I look after baby. At least I got awesome quality kid time while avoiding her company.

I'm actually wondering at some point, for my sanity, I should leave. I'm not there yet, but I still can't eat much, and have trouble sleeping.


Me: 47 w/ S10, D12, D3
Current T: 12; M: 11 years; BD1: 11-11-18; BD2: 22-04-22; STBXW: 41
Previous M: 4 years; Big D: 2004; XW: 48
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Nope. Legally you could screw your self. You gotta tough it out. When is she moving to parents?

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Originally Posted by toughtimes180
Fark, IHS DBing is mentally exhausting. I've had the perfect db day. Delaying the response to smses, ignoring pointless messages, setting boundaries on vague requests for child minding, ignoring subtly hostile comments, rebuffed attempts at emotional unloads, and dealing with 30 minutes of her just disappearing in her room while I look after baby. At least I got awesome quality kid time while avoiding her company.

I'm actually wondering at some point, for my sanity, I should leave. I'm not there yet, but I still can't eat much, and have trouble sleeping.

tough, I know it is difficult, and I can relate. However, over time, it does get easier. IHS does require a level of discipline that most of us do not have. In my case I was terrible for the first 6-8 weeks. Then the pendulum begun to swing back. Where initially I was 10% of the time decent at DBing, and 90% awful at it, by 3 months in had started to get towards 90% being decent and 10% awful.

Here is the thing, you have to stay busy. GAL is not a nice-to-have. It is a must. That's why the general advice for LBSs, especially in IHS, is to get a childcare schedule in place, and then when it isn't your turn, you are out GAL. I used to have to repeat this a lot on the forum, but: Those that struggle the most do GAL the worst. If you continue to struggle and you don't start getting to 50%-50% on the ratio above then you probably aren't GAL enough. I believe that GAL is foundation on which self-improvement and detachment are built. The better the LBS gets at GAL the better they DB.

So just keep working. Leaving, while a band aid, opens up a lot of other issues that a lot of LBSs have to deal with. It is not the panacea that those in IHS often think it is.


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Originally Posted by toughtimes180
I'm actually wondering at some point, for my sanity, I should leave. I'm not there yet, but I still can't eat much, and have trouble sleeping.
I wouldn't leave as 1) that may have negative consequences to custody and finances unless your lawyer advises otherwise, 2) you've not hammered out overnights with D2, so you choosing to leave her behind may be very hard on her.

Originally Posted by toughtimes180
Fark, IHS DBing is mentally exhausting. I've had the perfect db day. Delaying the response to smses, ignoring pointless messages, setting boundaries on vague requests for child minding, ignoring subtly hostile comments, rebuffed attempts at emotional unloads, and dealing with 30 minutes of her just disappearing in her room while I look after baby. At least I got awesome quality kid time while avoiding her company.
Since you have an avoidant side, be sure you're DB'íng e.g. treating her like a Starbucks barista you're being friendly to on your way to GAL and NOT giving her the silent treatment like you might be prone to. Many of us have a tendency towards anxious or avoidant attachments, so I don't mean that in a bad way, but we must be conscientious to avoid those tendencies.

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I hope as you get better at DB techniques like not engaging in emotionally heavy conversations, GAL, and 180s this all becomes easier. When I began listening and validating and not talking so much, there was a huge change in the dynamics of my relationship.

I control me, you control you took a lot of work to make my mantra!

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Originally Posted by Traveler
I hope as you get better at DB techniques like not engaging in emotionally heavy conversations, GAL, and 180s this all becomes easier. When I began listening and validating and not talking so much, there was a huge change in the dynamics of my relationship.

I control me, you control you took a lot of work to make my mantra!
I hope so. I feel particularly down today since STBXW FIL emailed me. He was supportive, but basically said based on what she said, we probably couldn't have any meaningful conversation. I'm guessing it relates to the blow up we had at dinner.

As I've said before, I can't control her reaction, she would have reacted as such down the line anyhow. My undoing was for bringing that forward.

I feel sad, but I told FIL to support his D and that in time, we can rekindle our relationship.


Me: 47 w/ S10, D12, D3
Current T: 12; M: 11 years; BD1: 11-11-18; BD2: 22-04-22; STBXW: 41
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toughtimes180,

Sorry you're struggling. You're right, IHS can be emotionally draining.

Based on what I read from the start of your initial thread 3 years ago I'd bet you're going to A) get some relief once the separation happens and B) look back on this and realize how much happier you can be when not in this relationship. You've talked about being "neglectful" and her being "emotionally abusive" from the time you two started living together even before marriage (your words, not mine) and she's been open about planning her exit for 7 years now, more than half your relationship. Let go, find relief, and work towards making your life happy.

You're getting lots of good advice. A few notes I'll re-enforce from others' posts:

  • You can't control her; you can only control you. Reflect on this and truly understand it.
  • Your relationship with her family will not be the same. It just won't. You may not be at odds but you won't be as close. She's their daughter. It is what it is.
  • Do not move out. She can leave if she wants.
  • Drop the emotional talks; communicate anything important through email and run by an L.
  • I second LH's Peter Crone recommendation.
  • Arrange a schedule or agreement with STBXW about kid coverage.
  • Use all that time you're not responsible for the kids to GAL like crazy.


Hang in there. You'll get through this and realize much better life can be.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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