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Josh71 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by bttrfly
Josh, it's really good to let those emotions out. I'm here to tell you, as miserable as it feels in the moment, this will not last. You will get through this. You have some great support here.
I feel supported here, more than anywhere else in RL.

Well, one the plus side, STBXW is responding well to boundaries. No BS arguing if I'm in her way or inconveniencing her. I can even see her trying to prevent outbursts when a conversation goes down a path she doesn't agree with. And the one time today where she tried something, I shot it down. Respectfully, of course. I wish it was like this, like in 2009! Lol

She unloaded a bit with me about how her plan to move in to her parents won't work. Her Mom said no, and I agreed and validated that it was unfair and disappointing that her own parent wasn't supportive. Now STBXW has more stress because she'll have to find a three bedroom unit that is pet friendly, or disrupt the kids school year, and move to a different suburb. I know I did a great job validating.

I reread NMMNG. So much more work for me and IC.

Today, I feel rested. Had a GAL night out with work mates, and despite feeling like crap, I had a great time.

STBXW and I have a school function today. It will involve a 40 minute drive each way. Not looking forward to it. But I'm not to care about any of her reactions, right?


Me: 47 w/ S10, D12, D3
Current T: 12; M: 11 years; BD1: 11-11-18; BD2: 22-04-22; STBXW: 41
Previous M: 4 years; Big D: 2004; XW: 48
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Did I blow it? We had a nice dinner, talked about how things will work post-separation. Then she talked about settlement, with the question, do you agree on the split? I said it was in the email I sent earlier today where I responded to all your questions. She says she didn't read it, let's talk about it since we are here together. And then I said I didn't agree, and here's why.

Emotional rage, guilt, accusations of true colors, tears, "You aren't thinking about the kids like me, you are thinking like a corporate ahole, I will never forgive you, you'll need to take me to court." I've never seen a turn from pleasantries to pure rage like this. I then say, which isn't validating, "I guess you need a lawyer". I know that didn't help. I really didn't know how to validate that sort of anger, I couldn't even think at that point. I didn't raise my voice, but I guess I could have said let's talk about this later. It was just such a friendly conversation, I didn't think it would come to this.

I actually don't feel bad about the incident. In fact, my knots in my stomach are gone. I drove her to the school function and said I'm going home.

I do feel I created an escalation, but then I don't own her emotions. I felt I had to stand up for myself.


Me: 47 w/ S10, D12, D3
Current T: 12; M: 11 years; BD1: 11-11-18; BD2: 22-04-22; STBXW: 41
Previous M: 4 years; Big D: 2004; XW: 48
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Josh_T,

Time for some tough love...
Originally Posted by Josh_T
Did I blow it?
Did you blow it in the sense that if you had acted differently it would change the situation? Probably not. Many cases here seem to be too far gone that no matter what people do it the result of the marriage is the same. However, it sounds like you didn't handle the conversation in a DB manner by putting guilt, judgement, and pressure on her...and that likely escalated things and may have consequences for your divorce agreement.

Originally Posted by Josh_T
We had a nice dinner, talked about how things will work post-separation.
Many would argue you should be out GAL'ing instead of having dinner and discussions with her.

Originally Posted by Josh_T
Emotional rage, guilt, accusations of true colors, tears, "You aren't thinking about the kids like me, you are thinking like a corporate ahole, I will never forgive you, you'll need to take me to court." I've never seen a turn from pleasantries to pure rage like this.
Telling your spouse they're acting like an a-hole and you'll never forgive them is not "loving detachment" or "DB'ing". Insulting, putting guilt and pressure...etc. is only going to get her more angry at you and potentially make the D ugly. It's not going to all of a sudden make her see your side and change.

Originally Posted by Josh_T
I then say, which isn't validating, "I guess you need a lawyer".
You told her to lawyer up??? Talk about escalating the legal angle of the situation. Time to dig in for an expensive battle. Your ideal case was you were consulting an L but she didn't. You probably just ensured she will now.

Originally Posted by Josh_T
I know that didn't help. I really didn't know how to validate that sort of anger, I couldn't even think at that point. I didn't raise my voice, but I guess I could have said let's talk about this later. It was just such a friendly conversation, I didn't think it would come to this.
We've repeatedly told you NOT to discuss divorce terms with her in person and go through email or even an L if needed. You're not listening, and will have to learn the hard way.

Originally Posted by Josh_T
I actually don't feel bad about the incident.
You may regret it when you hear from the L you told her to get.

Josh_T - You really need to stop interactions with her, as you can't help from making them emotional. Here's what I told you 5 days ago:

Originally Posted by BL42
*Stop ALL emotional interactions with STBXW.
*Deal with any divorce-related communications through email, NOT verbally.

*Consult with a lawyer ASAP.
*DO NOT sell the house in the next two weeks. Making the best decision is better than rushing into a permanent sale based on a perception of a market.
*Forget any notion of keeping a nuclear family close post-D (duplex, renting in the same building, pop-ins in the morning...etc.).
*Don't agree to anything less than 50/50 time with your children. I don't know Australia law - sounds like Kind18 has a good understanding - but don't cave here unless your L advises you have no choice.

And here's what I told you 4 days ago:

Originally Posted by BL42
This is NOT a conversation you need to have with WAW. This is a decision you need to make and then strategize with your L on the best approach. Feel free to counsel with your family, friends, doctor, phycologist, priest, or whoever else you think may help, but I'd be very wary having this conversation with WAW based on the results of other conversations you've detailed in this thread.

Last edited by BL42; 05/07/22 11:40 AM.

Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
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OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
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Josh you should be proud! You stood up to the bully!

Her actions didn’t constitute validation they constituted boundaries.

She’ll never admit it but I bet she respected you for the first time in a long time. That’s why it’s making you feel so uncomfortable. You are use to kissing her arse.

I can not make it any clearer you can’t push her away she’s already long gone. Everything is what’s best for Josh and kids.

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BL one of us misinterpreted the convo. I took it as her saying I’ll never forgive you etc. Josh please clarify.

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Originally Posted by LH19
BL one of us misinterpreted the convo. I took it as her saying I’ll never forgive you etc. Josh please clarify.
Yeah...not sure we've ever had such drastically different takes! I initially took it as Josh having the emotional outburst but re-reading I could see it being his wife which if that's the case then what you wrote makes sense.

Originally Posted by LH19
I can not make it any clearer you can’t push her away she’s already long gone. Everything is what’s best for Josh and kids.
^Agreed, 100%. Focus on you and the kids. Do not concern yourself with her needs.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
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Josh71 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by LH19
BL one of us misinterpreted the convo. I took it as her saying I’ll never forgive you etc. Josh please clarify.
It was her, not me.


Me: 47 w/ S10, D12, D3
Current T: 12; M: 11 years; BD1: 11-11-18; BD2: 22-04-22; STBXW: 41
Previous M: 4 years; Big D: 2004; XW: 48
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Sorry I don't have the power to do what you asked - other than deleting that post - which I did.

Try going up to edit profile and change it there.

Whether there is anyone that does have the power to change it or not is questionable right now.

I can delete or edit posts. But that is about it.


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Josh71 Offline OP
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I didn't mean to have dinner, it just happened since we realised there was extra time before the school function. At least we had a meaningful chat about parenting. And again, 30 minutes prior, the conversation on duplex came up. I said I couldn't afford it, and that was that.

I agree, that's it, I again slid against my agreement for email only. I learnt my lesson. If she gets an L or not, I believe it is required to make any agreement binding. I fell for the emotion, yet again.

The mood was so cold, I said I'm not attending the school function. I dropped her off and went home. She'll have to uber herself.

I'll let her cool down from that. She promised me the detailed numbers I asked for. I have half a mind to do it for her, to start the conversation, but atm this doesn't sound like a good idea.

From a DB POV, I've been nothing but happy all day, and never raised my voice at all in the evening. Except for the L comment, nothing else said was anything other than factual and what I want.

Last edited by Josh_T; 05/07/22 12:23 PM.

Me: 47 w/ S10, D12, D3
Current T: 12; M: 11 years; BD1: 11-11-18; BD2: 22-04-22; STBXW: 41
Previous M: 4 years; Big D: 2004; XW: 48
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
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Be proud you did good.

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