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Originally Posted by Kind18
As SteveLW says, women can’t be in a healthy relationship with men they don’t respect.

Absolutely agree. In situations like this it seems that the actions which lead to earning or losing respect are a bit hard to pin down in practice.

Originally Posted by Kind18
She might be enjoying sex with you physically atm, but she has zero respect for you because you’re willing to do that in the knowledge she’s with someone else.

Would like to clarify that she does NOT know that I know. I was informed about the affair by a friend who happened to spot them on what clearly looked like a date.

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do it because you have self respect and boundaries.

The theme seems to be that whatever I do or say, it needs to build on demonstrating self-respect and setting boundaries.

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Originally Posted by Traveler
Hi Peter, some forum members have turned affair or other situations around.

Those situations took many months. The WAS had to face the possibility of losing their Plan B (spouse), miss them, and be willing to make meaningful amends. Being mean, cold, etc. or "nicing" them are not typically on that path. Being able to validate their feelings, face and correct any misbehaviors that contributed to the relationship's downfall, setting boundaries that respect you and your values and enable you to endure this, and moving on can all be helpful.

Yes, I am preparing for a long haul, even though I don't know what it will look like. What if she travels to where the OM lives and meets him again? How do you think that will change the dynamic?

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Be that success story who gets the girl in the end (if you still want her) like Steve, May, or a couple of others here. Show us your attempts at validation. Tell us about your 180s and GAL game. What boundaries are you setting that respect you, your values, and enable you to endure this?

I am working out again - quite a bit actually. It's been a month, but WAW recently commented that my body looks great. Then she said something like "if we divorce then another woman will get lucky". I don't really care what she thinks about me working out but can't help thinking that these are bizarre statements. Also taken up several courses, going out for meals & movies with friends and generally feeling upbeat.

There have been 180s and actions perceived as 180s by WAW. To clarify the latter, as I mentioned earlier, she has always denied that I do anything important around the house. That is something I strongly disagree and at times I even made lists of things I did that day and shown it to her. She would have no answer at the time but weeks later relapse back into saying that I don't do anything. Last few days I offered to do certain things that surprised her. In reality all I did was offer it in a way that I didn't previously. I used to do the actual item regularly even before.

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If you choose sex, read up on being safe with casual sex partners who are simultaneously sleeping with others. Common precautions include condoms and regular STI screenings. As they say, if you aren't ready to talk about safe sex, you're not ready to have it!

Yes I am getting an appointment asap smile

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I think Kind is dead on. That is how you let her know you know about the affair. (Remember what R2C said, do not tell her what you know, or how you know, only that you know!)

Next time she tries to initiate sex you stop her and say what Kind said above. Now she knows you know. When she presses you, you stop the conversation with a simple "I know what is going on." And then walkaway, leave, go to sleep, say you are busy and cannot continue the discussion.

I am not sure if you have been told this information, but there are practical reasons you do not tell her what or how you know. WASs in affairs aren't prone to end the affair just because you know about it. But once they know HOW you know, they will go further into secrecy to keep you from knowing more. For instance, a lot of LBSs find out about their WAS's by snooping on the WAS's phone. So when a LBS gives in and tell the WAS "I saw the messages on your phone." Guess what happens? The passcode gets changed, and/or the cheaters switch how they communicate (they stop texting and use Snapchat, etc). There is nothing to be gained by telling the WAS how and what you know. So the best approach is just to say "I know". And leave it there.

My wife took this to the next level. She would install a messaging app when it was safe, message with the OM, and then not only delete the messages, but then uninstalled the messaging app that was used. Do not underestimate the lengths a cheating spouse will go to in order to hide their activities.

Last edited by SteveLW; 04/14/22 01:17 PM.

M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Originally Posted by PeterB
Yes, I am preparing for a long haul, even though I don't know what it will look like. What if she travels to where the OM lives and meets him again? How do you think that will change the dynamic?
Depends on what your boundaries are. If you have a boundary that if she sleeps with other men then you will divorce her then you divorce her. If your boundary is if she sleeps with OM you will separate then separate. Are you familar with boundaries?
Originally Posted by PeterB
I am working out again - quite a bit actually. It's been a month, but WAW recently commented that my body looks great. Then she said something like "if we divorce then another woman will get lucky".
This is typical WW script.
Originally Posted by PeterB
There have been 180s and actions perceived as 180s by WAW. To clarify the latter, as I mentioned earlier, she has always denied that I do anything important around the house. That is something I strongly disagree and at times I even made lists of things I did that day and shown it to her. She would have no answer at the time but weeks later relapse back into saying that I don't do anything.
Peter she has to paint you as the bad guy. That makes it easier to D you. If you were a perfect guy how would that make her look leaving a perfectly good marriage?

Last edited by LH19; 04/14/22 01:58 PM.
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Read this:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2051316#Post2051316


What RobX says is what your attitude should be. I am not saying you should say those words to her at this point in time.

There are also some good posts in that thread. Might be a good idea to read through that thread.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
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PeterB,
Originally Posted by PeterB
Almost nothing I do is good enough. Never notices what I do around the house. My guy friends actually remark that I do so much and hope that their own wives don't find out. Apparently they don't do even half of what I do. Furthermore, our child is special needs so all his therapy needs are handled by me, including analysis and implementation - that is a full time job. Often converts things to opposite of what really happened and complains to her family. Extreme denial of logic during fights and comes back to fight again and again, once she is offended.
Is it possible you expected to be treated better based on how much you did around the house and cared for your son which led to you building up resentment towards her? The often recommended book around here is No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert A. Glover.

Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by PeterB
and is trying to find strength by talking to a few friends and a counsellor who has damaged her views about me by validating her thoughts about me.
It's also common WAS/WS will seek out people who validate their decisions (divorce, affairs...etc.) and reject those who question their decisions.
It is very likely that her counsellor and friend are validating or even encouraging the affair. How do I deal with this headwind?
You can't. She's going to do what she wants to do and talk to and get validation from those she seeks out, and you can't control it. You have to put that completely out of your mind and start moving in the opposite direction.

Originally Posted by PeterB
Thanks for the reality check. Any thoughts on what does it takes for a WAW to get over the affair drug? I should remind that the affair is long distance at this time.
There's no way to estimate a time. But likely longer than you think. Right now you're hoping the affair will end in three months and then she'll come back. Perhaps you read online the average affair lasts 3-6 months, and you're thinking things will be back to normal by the Summer. (At least I did). Nope. Time to start wrapping your head around the phrase "this is a marathon, not a sprint."

Originally Posted by PeterB
She even tells me to stop trying so hard for her
This is incredibly common in sitches around here. As I bent over backward to be perfect after BD my ExW told me how well I was doing (as if I really was a lousy H before).

Originally Posted by PeterB
Do you think she genuinely thinks I am trying to impress her or is it a defensive thought?
Who knows. Don't spend time trying to figure out what she thinks.

Originally Posted by PeterB
I don't know what really works for WAW that makes them come back to the marriage.
It's incredibly hard, but you can't control what she's going to do. She's going to decide for both of you. You just have to work out, 180, and GAL like crazy and make yourself and your life awesome.

Originally Posted by BL42
Thanks. I did read up quite a bit but will talk to a lawyer asap.
Good. Do it ASAP.

Originally Posted by LH19
Peter you can't make her do anything. She knows a D will affect your son. Right now she doesn't care.
Ding, ding, ding. Either that, or she's convinced herself her leaving "to be happy" will actually be better for your kid. (because it's in her own self-interest)

Originally Posted by LH19
I am getting a sense you are a control freak. You will soon learn the only person you can control is yourself. The quicker you learn the better you will do at DBing.
Originally Posted by LH19
You can't control her Peter.
The inability to control or have any say in such a personal life situation (marriage) can be very difficult to wrap your head around and accept. You have to fully let go. It's something I've never been great at, but have come to a better understanding post-BD/D. There's lots of similar philosophical themes in various cultures and religions. Think Serenity Prayer or meditation or mindfulness. Pain and suffering are caused by expectations. Someone here recommended Peter Crone and I've watched a few of his videos and learned a lot.

Originally Posted by Kind18
Don’t go out of your way to tell her anything. But next time she tries to initiate sex, say “I don’t want sex with someone who is having an affair.” Make sure it’s a stark, clear boundary but don’t dwell on it or get pulled into a discussion. Immediately end the discussion, or even go to sleep/go out.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Well said, Kind. "I think we should stop having sex?" is PASSIVE--deferring the decision about what he wants to do with his body to his wife. People respect guys more capable of ACTIVELY making decisions for themselves (which is different than AGGRESSIVELY trying to make decisions for other people).
This is great. A strong stance with an even keeled response. Right now you're scared about your marriage and family and acting out of fear, passively letting things happen to you. What if you flipped the switch and started taking an active stance on where you wanted your life to go and acted out of strength? What if you act as if YOU are the catch and you're going to be fine, maybe even happier, regardless of she decides? Perhaps she would start wondering if she were making a big mistake.

Originally Posted by PeterB
What if she travels to where the OM lives and meets him again? How do you think that will change the dynamic?
Think hard about my comment above. How can you take a position of strength and actively decide how this is going to go? Instead of asking "what will happen if she...", start thinking what YOU'RE going to do about YOUR life. Reclaim the power. Get in the mindset of she's crazy to be doing this and she's going to lose out on the best thing that ever happened to her. Start feeling like you're the prize and your strong and you're going to have an incredible life either way. I know it's hard at first but really think about this and really try to implement it. The sooner you do the better you'll be.

Originally Posted by PeterB
I am working out again - quite a bit actually.
That's awesome. Keep it up. Just wait a few months or a year and see how good you look and how great you feel.

Originally Posted by PeterB
Then she said something like "if we divorce then another woman will get lucky". I don't really care what she thinks about me working out but can't help thinking that these are bizarre statements.
This is an incredibly common thing to say. You'll read it in many threads. Don't get caught up in wondering about it.

Originally Posted by PeterB
Also taken up several courses, going out for meals & movies with friends and generally feeling upbeat.
Awesome! Keep it up.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
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OM1 affair ends: May '20
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Hi Peter,

I wanted to chime in on a few things.

My husband also had a long-distance A. I think that the limerence stage of a long-distance A lasts a lot longer than if they have the opportunity to see each other frequently. My H's affair lasted about two years, followed by about nine months of stopping and then starting talking to her again, then another six months of moping around feeling sorry for himself before I feel like he really rededicated himself to our M. So yes, a marathon, not a sprint.

My advice to you is first of all, spend some time really thinking about what *you* want and what matters to you. What are you okay with, and what aren't you okay with? I see people asking you what you'll do if you find out she is in a PA, or if she goes to visit him-- I urge you to think this all through very carefully. Don't just take an extreme knee-jerk reaction and move on (PA = D or you'll take her back no matter what). Talking to an L or a Ded friend can help take the fear out of the path of separation or divorce. Go down all the various paths of what the future might look like, and decide where your boundaries are, what your core values are and how to align your life with your values, and what you need in your life to be healthy and happy. Please know that this looks different for different people. You know yourself the best and need to figure this out for yourself. it might take time. That's okay.

Next, you need to stop worrying about what she's doing and thinking and just LET IT ALL GO. Some of the things you've said about your wife make you sound kind of controlling, like how to stop her from talking to her IC who you perceive to be threatening to your M, how to make her be more considerate about your son, etc. You control you. That's it. If she decides she wants to end the A and reconcile with you, that is a choice she will need to make on her own, not because you coerced her into it. Just let go and focus on yourself and your son.

As others have said, same with spending time parsing through things she says to you-- it means nothing. She probably is torn and conflicted. That's her job to worry about, not yours.

I know how you feel because I've been there-- spouse still living in the house, says they want out but not going anywhere, in a long distance affair. In some ways I think this situation is harder because you have to see them every day so you have to be DBing all the time-- no real breaks. They're not making the decision so either you have to either make it for them by kicking them out or moving out yourself, or you can wait it out. It's HARD.

Finally, re: respect-- if you respect yourself, people will either respect you back or you won't give a flying F if they don't. Trying to parse out actions that will result in your wife respecting you more is just focusing on her again. Stop trying to do things that are aimed at manipulating her into doing or feeling a certain way. Again-- you have to let go and focus on yourself, not on her. Also, I just have to say-- PEOPLE can't be in healthy relationships with PEOPLE they don't respect. I don't think this is a woman needs to respect a man kind of thing. That feels gross. Partners need to respect each other, period.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
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Originally Posted by Peter
Almost nothing I do is good enough. Never notices what I do around the house. My guy friends actually remark that I do so much and hope that their own wives don't find out. Apparently they don't do even half of what I do. Furthermore, our child is special needs so all his therapy needs are handled by me, including analysis and implementation - that is a full time job.

Originally Posted by Bl42
Is it possible you expected to be treated better based on how much you did around the house and cared for your son which led to you building up resentment towards her? The often recommended book around here is No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert A. Glover.
While I don't love the author, his point about covert contracts is dead on. You're partners. Fair is 50/50. If you're doing much more (or less)--why? A typical "nice" man or woman does these behaviors with hidden expectations, and when these expectations aren't met build up resentment, which isn't "nice" at all. Sometimes the expectations are quite icky when you speak them aloud! A good partner does their share and if they do more either do it as a gift without expectation or if they're unwilling actively negotiate what they'll get in return so they don't built up resentment.

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Originally Posted by SteveLW
My wife took this to the next level. She would install a messaging app when it was safe, message with the OM, and then not only delete the messages, but then uninstalled the messaging app that was used. Do not underestimate the lengths a cheating spouse will go to in order to hide their activities.

Wow. Is your story documented somewhere? How are things going now?

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Originally Posted by LH19
Depends on what your boundaries are. If you have a boundary that if she sleeps with other men then you will divorce her then you divorce her. If your boundary is if she sleeps with OM you will separate then separate. Are you familar with boundaries?

I see a thread called "boundaries". Are you suggesting I read that? Should I tell her that if she PAs then I will divorce her (she does not know that I know about OM)? Fyi: little over a month ago she asked me during one of the discussions - what if I want to have sex with other men? She followed it up with a modesty reclamation by saying that she does not like men and that she is 'extremely' choosy with men. I promptly replied that she should file a divorce asap and then sleep with whoever.

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