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unchien,

That's tough man, sorry. Not sure what advice to give other than keep trying to be the best dad you possibly can and in the end hopefully the kids see things for what they are. Hang in there.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
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It never ends, does it U? This sounds awful and the sadness you have in your concern for the kids is completely rational.

Originally Posted by U
Last week D6 was really upset at bedtime. We moved to our new city before she turned 2, but she was telling me I was "always mad" in our old city, and never liked my job.
It sounds like her mom is doing one of the big "donts" in divorce and is talking bad about the Ex and also is using the kids as emotional dependents. They are being mom and dad for your ex, and its confusing - shes the adult. Your D6 has a pure love for you and cant understand why the other person she has pure love for is upset at a person such as you. You are Dad, her only one, surely she must feel weird hearing her dad put down.

Originally Posted by U
she asked if I ever loved mommy, and if so, then why did we one time go in a separate room and "mommy thought you were going to hurt her." Unbelievably inappropriate. She said her Mom told her these things.
Your ex seems to be talking to your d6 like she is one of her own girlfriends. Unbelievably inappropriate indeed.

Originally Posted by U
I brought my concerns to XW about the messaging, and she called me "horrible" and "emotionally abusive". She said she never said those things to D6.
Good on bringing up the concerns, at this point there is no sense keeping the peace, it seems exposing this is the next best way to handle it. Gaslighting is something else here. Its like she is looking at herself in the mirror and calling you everything she sees.

U-We had an agreement for me to have the kids next weekend when I have family visiting, but XW said she will no longer honor that agreement now.
C-the system is so broken, throughout this whole things your ex threw up so many red flags. I hope others know more here. I'd say document to go for full or more custody of the kids in the future. They should be in a happy home.

U-D8 and S10 are in IC. They are quiet and reserved about things. D8 clearly has some emotional issues going on, having outbursts from time to time but refusing to say how she's feeling, for instance.
C-Signs of being afraid to speak out.

U-I'm concerned about all the messaging to my kids. Even though my XW freaked out in denial, I still feel right in pointing out the behavior so hopefully she thinks twice next time she decides to put our kids in the middle or discuss inappropriate things with them. There is no other explanation for D6 saying these things to me. And XW's reaction was so strong and defensive and diversionary that it tells me what I need to know.
C-from an outside perspective hearing your side of this, this is spot on.

U-I'm really sad for my kids, and knowing that some level of this stuff will continue throughout our lives. I do believe that just being the best dad I can is all I can do -- I just wish my XW could let things go so our kids could be more emotionally healthy. Or that I could do something else.
Sometimes I think about talking to my kids about some things, but I am very very cautious about putting them in the middle of adult topics that they don't need to be exposed to.
C-I think you're right to hold off on bringing them in to adult topics yet I also get....what are you supposed to do when just the other side does it? It probably feels like youre just sitting there and not fighting back. I know some who had a spouse with BPD and they did everything the could to turn the kids against the more mentally healthy spouse. Once the kids got older, they saw it for what it was. Maybe some hope in the long run but hopefully something else can be done in the short run as well.


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I am so sorry to read this U. REALLY hate that kids get caught in between!

I agree it was correct to at least mention it with XW. Also completely right about being the best dad!
What about also telling her this:
"I just wish my XW could let things go so our kids could be more emotionally healthy"
Or a less controlling version of it.


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Originally Posted by unchien
Thanks C, Steve,

Last week D6 was really upset at bedtime. We moved to our new city before she turned 2, but she was telling me I was "always mad" in our old city, and never liked my job. Then she asked if I ever loved mommy, and if so, then why did we one time go in a separate room and "mommy thought you were going to hurt her." Unbelievably inappropriate. She said her Mom told her these things.

I brought my concerns to XW about the messaging, and she called me "horrible" and "emotionally abusive". She said she never said those things to D6. We had an agreement for me to have the kids next weekend when I have family visiting, but XW said she will no longer honor that agreement now.

D8 and S10 are in IC. They are quiet and reserved about things. D8 clearly has some emotional issues going on, having outbursts from time to time but refusing to say how she's feeling, for instance.

I'm concerned about all the messaging to my kids. Even though my XW freaked out in denial, I still feel right in pointing out the behavior so hopefully she thinks twice next time she decides to put our kids in the middle or discuss inappropriate things with them. There is no other explanation for D6 saying these things to me. And XW's reaction was so strong and defensive and diversionary that it tells me what I need to know.

I'm really sad for my kids, and knowing that some level of this stuff will continue throughout our lives. I do believe that just being the best dad I can is all I can do -- I just wish my XW could let things go so our kids could be more emotionally healthy. Or that I could do something else.

Sometimes I think about talking to my kids about some things, but I am very very cautious about putting them in the middle of adult topics that they don't need to be exposed to.

U, this is rough. Obviously, I am not an expert in how to deal with this stuff. I have seen a lot of friends go through similar though. And a couple of family members. What I can tell you is that confronting the EX over things like this rarely goes well. We men like to take action. "Ex said something inappropriate to D6, I cannot let that go!" Well, the problem is you really need to. Unless it is something that is physically risking the child, you, unfortunately, have no control over what she says to them and tells them.

However, as the advice above from others says, just be the best dad you can be. Kids are smarter then we give them credit for. They also have more wisdom and insight then we give them credit for. When a child sees how wonderful their dad is, even though their mom is constantly telling them how awful their dad is, the child will see it for themselves and realize that what mom is telling them doesn't match up to the dad that they see and experience.

So as hard as it can be you need to learn to take the high road on this stuff. One of my best friends growing up had his parents split up. It was awful, I spent a lot of time over there and in the middle of the split things were really tense. His mom cheated on his dad. She eventually left him for the other man. She would tell my friend how awful their dad was. However, his dad fought for custody of him and his brother, and won. He was a great father throughout it all, and afterwards. His mom got them every other weekend, but as the two of them got older they began to skip those visits. No matter what his mom said about his dad, he saw that it wasn't true. Truth has a way of winning out.


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What Steve said is gold.

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unchien - How's it going?


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
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Hey BL ~

Things are good, thanks. I've got some great things going on with work, personal projects and my personal life.

The kids are mostly good save for issues similar to what I've reported before. Co-parenting is a challenge. I don't feel much like going into it at length here though.

Not much of an update, I know. I feel like I used to post here to sort things out in my head, get advice and impressions, etc., but now even though issues persist in my sitch, I feel like I've learned to handle them pretty well.

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Update ~

Things going well here for the most part.

Job is great, kids are great, GF is great. I'm hitting some fitness goals I never thought I would achieve (got into running marathons). With the interest rate hike, my plans to purchase a home have been put on ice, but that's fine with me. It frees up a little money for trips with the kids that I otherwise would have felt more stressed about.

I have a lot of ongoing co-parenting challenges with XW. I had hoped things might improve over time, for everyone's sake (kids and parents). It's truly aggravating. I won't go into details since this isn't a co-parenting forum. Things could be a lot better for our kids without the nonsense that goes on, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen for now.

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