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Hello Eagle

Wow, what a challenging task for S17. I remember being a lad of 17, and expressing feelings was difficult, never mind putting them to paper. I am very impressed son’s topic was his Dad. You must be very proud of son. And you should be!

Originally Posted by Eagle3
It turned out to be a very beautiful but also very heavy task. Huge amount of emotion, an explanation of his anger, sadness, how he misses his old dad, why he doesn't understand that his dad doesn't want to seek help for his issues, that there are 2 personalities in him, etc.

Excellent.

Eagle, son is going to be alright.

My kids faced their Mom’s leaving and behaviour head on. They spoke to their classmates, stood at the front of the class, and let everyone know what happened. They poured out their feelings and hurt in their music; the music professor was a family friend and she encouraged some really dynamic and angry pieces.

S17’s pouring out is great to see. It’s like a year of therapy right there, all wrapped up in one project. smile

Got to say, I am impressed that son shared his project/feelings with Dad. And EXH’s response is pretty interesting.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
I would really love to hear your opinion on this as I’m still way too gullible, this seems to be a characteristic which I can’t seem to get rid of. LOL

How about hopeful, instead of gullible.

EXH acknowledges so much in his response. He mentions the difficulty in reading his son’s feelings, and how difficult it must have been for son to do this work. Displaying empathy is a positive thing. And folks lost and consumed are not empathic toward others.

EXH even pauses and confirms postponement of a few days for more thoughtful discussion. Again, something most crisis folks do not display often; as their attention span is like that of a gnat, and they usually respond quickly and from emotions.

Dad doesn’t blame son. Nor does he accept any blame. There is no clear accountability on his part put into writing. He does acknowledge his troubles and turmoil, and recognizes his desire to get help.

One particular part that doesn’t sit well with me is wanting to make an exception for the last five years. EXH is pretty plain about ignoring these last years and let’s just enjoy the next forty.

Overall, a positive(ish) and “G” style message. And, you’ve been here before.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
You have to know that EXH has a log of money now, he doesn't work, OW2 doesn't work either and is constantly traveling and living a life where he doesn't have to deal with anyone. He has also made his R with OW2 public but does not say anything about it to S17 (S17 also wants nothing to do with this and I think this is obvious to EXH).

The other life. Less responsibilities. Fun in the sun.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
If he sends such a message to S17 about seeking help, but he still lives it up so heavily with OW2, is this possible?

Hence my initial thought, he may be more self-reflective after all, but the more I read this, the more I think it's another form of manipulation.

EXH/Dad/G said some very nice words. However, his actions are saying something different.

I suspect son’s open and honest emotions pulled Dad out of his tunnel. EXH sees what he did. Feels bad. Would like things to be better. But, how long will it last? Will EXH do the needed work to make things better? All that depends upon EXH.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Again only words, not actions, and why ask for help from S17, it must be professional help in my opinion, S17 will not be able to help him get over his issues…

Yes, look to actions. Words are important, yet actions speak louder.

You are correct S17 will not be able to help Dad get over his issues. In fact, son should not be involved in a capacity as counsellor at all. Son does not need the responsibility of his Dad’s mental and emotional health upon his shoulders. Not at all!

Son could (should) reply something along the lines of: Dad I love you too. I am unable to help you find yourself. Please follow through with what you said and seek help. We cannot just make an exception or ignore the last five years, however the future can be better.

So, yes the message and EXH is manipulating. Less nefarious than previous times perhaps. But still, it’s not “I messed up. What do I need to do to make things right?” It is steps in that direction though. Time will tell if it sticks this round.

Oftentimes people need to hit rock bottom to find the drive and will to make permanent life changes. And rock bottom is where and when one decides it to be. To me, EXH hasn’t quite reached that point. Yet.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Hi D,

Thanks. I think my last response and yours were posted at the same time, so you might have missed that one. What do you think of the response we made towards EXH and what about my other Q?

You also talk about rock bottom and indeed, I’m pretty sure he will not reach that since he can live his best life now. No responsibilities whatsoever, doing whatever he wants, a beautiful woman by his side and a lot of money…

You know I very much appreciate your insight on things. smile

Last edited by Eagle3; 05/29/22 09:32 PM.

Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Hello Eagle

I was typing as you were posting. smile

Well done with the response to XH/Dad.

It’s wordy, which in this case is perfect. EXH can/will read it often.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
I know this is not problem anymore but still affects me and I wanted to mention it here to show how they can shift so swiftly.

Would this be because he is happy with her and therefore turning around? Have you ever seen this in MLC?

One of the major traits of MLC is confusion. A crisis is an emotional irrational journey. The MLCer is driven by their emotions. And emotions/feelings are fleeting; therefore flipping and flopping on issues is pretty standard.

Now, this confusion is largest during entry into the crisis or tunnel. Once they are deeply consumed they do settle into their depression and narrative. Exiting the tunnel - either a temporary peaking out, or actually awakening - exhibits confusion. Consider pre-crisis they are purring along living life. Then past traumas are dug up within them. Competing views and desires push and pull internally, which is confusing. As this continues, their pressure increases and increases. Little outward indications become apparent, although are mostly overlooked. Eventually the pressure and confusion reaches such a threshold that kaboom, bomb drop.

Here, they’ve entered the full blown crisis. Confusion reigns in their life as they firm up their narrative and lay to rest their past life. Their running behaviours and vices keep the confusion and demons away. The MLCer is quite confident and assured in themselves of their new shinny life. Until at rest. Oh, the demons do play when one is at rest. Hence, why they run. And run they do. Spending money, drugs, drink, affairs, illicit actives, anything to feel young and alive. The terrible truth buried again; that they feel dead inside, and so very full of pain and hurt.

Peaking out of the tunnel, a mini awakening, and such all exhibit more confusion. The MLCer’s crafted narrative and life unravels somewhat. This is part of the emotional path they are on. Some peek out for just a moment or two, some days to months, and some stay awaken. It is easy to understand that they need to be more healed to face reality than their fantasy.

As stated, the crisis is driven by their emotions. So changes in their direction can be like flipping a switch. Feelings, after all, come and go pretty quickly.

XH’s sudden offer to pay $50K is odd. Amazing. And odd. I mean you are divorced and I’m guessing he doesn’t legally owe you it. Or if he does, he has been withholding remittance and now got a surge of goodwill. That, and his other goodwill gesture and acknowledgment of all you’ve done over the last years, does appear to be brought about by some external force or pressure.

Is XH’s generosity brought on by happy? Or sad?

Hard to say. I’m sure son’s project has stirred something within him. Some things XH isn’t wanting to look at. He could be trying to compensate for his guilt.

XH and OW2 could be engaged, and he is super elated. Making magnanimous gestures and payments of bills due. Creating a feeling of a clean slate as it were.

Or G is making another appearance.

Time will tell. For now, accept his offer, if he actually follows through with it.

Crisis is all about him. OW <whatever number> is a symptom. She is not the cure! If XH is turning around it is because of himself.

That being said, it is possible for a MLCer to heal and remain with their other person. However, most break up. The relationship was born out of deceit and illicit behaviour. And that is an unstable foundation of sand; hardly strong enough to weather life’s storms.

The OP is a sign of running. If she is around, so is the crisis.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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We were typing together again. Lol.

And you are most welcome. I am happy to share my views.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
…I’m pretty sure he will not reach that since he can live his best life now. No responsibilities whatsoever, doing whatever he wants, a beautiful woman by his side and a lot of money…

Best life. Bah! Not by a long shot!

And for the record, beauty is way more than skin deep. And you are gorgeous! Don’t ever believe different.


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Hello Eagle.

Just popping in to see how you are? You are probably buried in preparing for the move to your new house. I’m so excited for you! But moving is a drag…and that is what I’ve been buried in myself. But once you get to where you can start decorating and arranging, it’s the best feeling!

El


Me 52, H 56
T10 M7, 2nd MR for both
2 Step Sons (19 and 21)
BD: Fall 2020
D finalized: July 2022
XH Married AP soon after D day.



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Thank you D and L for your response and always positive support. smile

The move is actually something I don't worry too much about. Luckily I have the whole of July to move and I'm quite a planner so that will go smoothly for sure.

The only problem is that I'll have to live between boxes for a bit.

I cannot order everything yet because the money from the sale of the house will only be available in the 3rd week of July and because I have already paid the advance from the other house out of my own resources (didn't want to take an extra loan since I won't need it anymore).
But no problem, if I order everything in the 3rd week of July, most of it would be in by the end of September, so it will only be for a short while.

I already enjoy looking for all kinds of nice things for the house, nothing that is more fun!

Meanwhile EXH is more active again, especially to the children, today also to me.

Where I live it was Father's Day today, no doubt a difficult day for him as they don't want to be with him for the time being.

This week he also finally messaged Twin S14 1, he wants nothing to do with his father and has not sent anything back.

Today I sat down with them to ask if they wanted to send a message to their father. Initially, this was a no-go for S17 and Twin S 14 1, Twin S14 2, however, wanted to send something. In the end, they agreed to send a message after all. Twin S14 2 sent this on their behalf.
He responded immediately and it showed again that he really wants to make things right. He says he knows what his mistakes are and where things went wrong, that he wants to show that he can change, wants to be the father again like before but that they can only determine that he is getting better if they would meet with him and that he wants to get that chance. He also adds that he has patience as he knows it is about gaining trust again.

I made this evening a nice evening for them. After all, I also want them to still know their father as he used to be, S17 remembers this very well, but for the Twins this is very far away, that's why we watched a lot of videos this evening of when they were young, man, did they have fun!

Strange but true, this evening EXH sends me a message:

Hi,
After a few months and shortly before the next step I would have liked to sit down with you again and try to end everything in a better way (if you are open to that of course).
At my house or I would like to invite you for dinner somewhere.
Let me know.
G


With the next step I assume he means the move, although that's not a step for him, just for me and the kids, unless he means something else I don't know about yet LOL.

So what do we do with that, huh? Any advice?

I do want to say that I find it very strange that he dares to invite me to his home, while I am sure that OW2 already lives with him, at least this was the case a couple of weeks ago. (and he may be completely bonkers at times, he would never, ever confront me with something like that)

I also love his wording "to end everything". To me it seems he really want me to know in advance what his purpose is so I don't get my hopes up. He still seems to think I can't live without him LOL.

Last edited by Eagle3; 06/12/22 08:11 PM.

Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Hello Eagle

Sounds like you are having fun shopping for the house. A few months live among the boxes will pass pretty quickly.

G’s message is intriguing. And, methinks, purposefully vague.

Given he sent is on Father’s Day, I’d suspect he is stirred somewhat. The little wanted interacting from his kids, undoubtedly amplifying that stirring.

The “next step” is an odd statement. The whole message is a bit odd if you ask me. Next step? Your move. Maybe he’s moving? Or marrying? Or breaking up?

Meeting at his house to discuss sounds rather entrapping. I’d steer clear of that. Like you said, I think OW2 lives with him. So not sure why he’d invite you to his house.

My guess is to do with the kids. His message to them and then one to you are likely connected. Your move, the next step, cuts him out of your life. He had, and has, nothing to do with the house. To “end everything in a better way” for him would to be involved. Remember, his path is all about him. I suspect manipulating to get back in to the middle of things. You sense something too - as in he feels you cannot live without him.

His manipulating looks, for the moment, not seriously nefarious; more of a man trying to figure out an easy way to talk his kids into seeing him. Avoiding the difficult work.

When MLCers are pleasant and sweet as sugar, they are usually after something.

Still, I’d respond and see just what he is up to. Not an agreement to meet. Not yet. Rather a prompt for more information.


Hello G

I am open to a discussion. You mentioned a better way. What are you proposing?

I’m unsure of your timeline reference. “Before the next step” has no significance to me. If you could clarify that, it would be appreciated.

E



Of course, you could just ignore the message, yet for the sake of your young children I think this opportunity is something worth exploring.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Thx D.
Although forgot to mention one important item, he already told S17, when they met a few weeks ago (remember drunken episode) he would send a message in June to me to ask for a get-together with me. So, it was already a ‘planned’ thing in his head.


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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And with the next step he could mean the actual sale of the house. The signing session with the new owners is planned for mid-July, we both need to attend.


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Eagle3,

My take is - especially if he's living with OW2 - there's hardly anything you need to discuss which can't be done via email. Personally I'd decline the in-person meet up and ask him to type up what he wants. That'll give you time to read it, process it, and craft a thoughtful and unemotional response. Just my $0.02.

Good luck w/the move!


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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