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Three hours a day! Never doubt the determination of a WW lol. She can’t be liking this gases prices right now lol. Boy your kids are young too and are going to resent her for doing this to them. Your W is at the perfect MLC/ Grass is greener stage. Anyways glad to see you are doing well. Anything we can help you with or have you waived the white flag?

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mako,

Good to see an update. I just re-read your thread again to get the full background/context.

Originally Posted by mako
After basically dropping the second bomb the end of July, W finally moved out in October.
Sorry the recon didn't work out but it never sounded like she was fully "in" and you mentioned the relationship being in a bad spot for years, so glad to see you're moving forward.

Originally Posted by mako
She is about 45 minutes away, and we each have the kids every other week. The older two go to school near my house so on her weeks she brings them over in the morning and picks them up after. That’s really nice cause I get to see them every school day. The youngest goes to day care close to my house, but I don’t usually see her.
Fantastic you get to see your kids on a regular basis during your "OFF" weeks. I have the same luxury in my sitch based on my virtual job and work schedule. Definitely a concern of mine with the D to miss out on half my kids' lives, so have done anything I can to stay engaged.

Originally Posted by mako
At first we were selling the house, then I was going to keep it and buy her out, and now I am going to sell it again. It is too big and the land is too much to take care of with one person, we’ve only been here less than 4 years so I’m not very attached, and I don’t particularly like the area. I actually like W’s area, there is a lot more to do there and we used to live there so I am familiar with it. I also dislike being so far from the kids, and it would be 45 minutes closer to my dad and the rest of my family. So I’m thinking of moving around there. I think it would be better for both me and the kids (me a place I like more, the kids not having to commute so far half of the school days).
Sounds like you've given it some thought so don't want to argue with your pros & cons, but believe you should really think about a move like this. Being 45 mins away I assume the kids will have to change schools and perhaps lose some friends? Not the end of the world - many families move (I did in 3rd grade for my dad's job) - but another disruption for them to consider. Also, right now YOU are their home base. They're familiar with your house/town/school. The presumption of the court is typically to have the kids stay in the school/town they're used to unless both parents agree. You get to see them almost every day because W needs you to help before/after school, but if you move closer that may change. And what is W has OM in this other town and you see them around or they break up and she decides to move 45 mins somewhere else? Right now you're the stable constant for the kids and have "home field advantage". You'll be giving that up.

Hate to frame it in a competition between parents because ideally that should not be the case in D, but it often does happen so even if it doesn't feel that way right now, guard yourself against it. I know based on my ExW's family exFIL feels exMIL played every card to "win" the kids. Hopefully that won't be the case in your sitch; just be mindful of the "advantages" you currently have. Hate to sound cynical, just want you to factor in the advantages you currently have.

If it's really best for your kids and for you, then go for it.

Originally Posted by mako
I told W early on that D is her want so she needs to deal with the logistics. We have a separation agreement from last March so the financial stuff is agreed to and D wouldn’t be hard, we will just need to have a lawyer finalize certain things with my pension and retirement accounts. I am not in a rush because once it happens I will be paying her almost $2000/month (state formula based on incomes), so if she wants that she can deal with it. She is lazy and I can see it dragging on like this for some time. Whatever, we are D in my mind so it doesn’t matter when it officially happens.
I like the sound of saving $2000/mo - I feel you there! - just make sure to consult with a L to make sure the longer marriage isn't biasing spousal support or any other potential consequences of dragging it out.

Originally Posted by mako
I think morally I would not date while still married but I am not ready to date yet so it doesn't matter.
Same here. I respect that stance. You'll be able to say confidently to your kids (and yourself) you dating did not factor into the demise of the marriage / splitting up the family.

Originally Posted by mako
One of the more interesting things, to me, is that I am not at all attracted to her anymore. As of last May or June I was still very attracted to her, but now that is not there at all. I think that’s a very good sign for how my detachment has gone.
Agreed - sounds like you're making progress w/detachment.

Originally Posted by mako
Being a single parent of three is a lot of work, so on my weeks I am mostly swamped.
I hear you there!

Originally Posted by mako
The kids are doing worse than me. The middle one seems fine and never talks about any of this. At least once a week the youngest asks me when Mommy and Daddy will live together again and then goes on about how she wishes that would happen. The oldest has gotten violent at school at times and got suspended once, and he has explicitly said he’s acting out cause he's mad that we are splitting up. He’s in IC too now so I hope he can work through that. I think a lot of times when I get sad I’m sad for the life that I wanted them to have that I know they now won’t. I can do my best for them but nothing will be the same as having their parents together as a loving family. I know I will be alright, they are still my biggest concern in all this.
This is the heartbreaking part to me. You & I having worked to process through everything know we'll be alright, but hate to see anything bad happen to the kids...especially something so life changing and dramatic as splitting their family apart.

Originally Posted by LH19
Wow your stbxw travels 45 mins everyday on her week so it’s an extra hour and a half out of her day.
Originally Posted by mako
I'm also shocked that she does this commute all the time. And it's worse than just commuting because it's here and back twice, so 3 hours a day in the car on her week. Can't imagine her gas expense. [censored] for the kids to spend so much time in the car too. She claimed there were no reasonable places to rent near by, I looked a bit and thought her standards were too high and also thought she was biased because one of her friends from work lives near there, who knows?
Originally Posted by LH19
Three hours a day! Never doubt the determination of a WW lol. She can’t be liking this gases prices right now lol. Boy your kids are young too and are going to resent her for doing this to them.
This does seem crazy. How can a parent move so far away from your kids' home base? It also sounds untenable. There's another poster (Drh2001?) who's W went as far across state lines and almost as far away and he has the kids most of the weeks. The kids are going to resent her for it, and she's going to start resenting it as well. I know you're considering moving to be closer, but she can't have banked on you doing that. Wonder what her long term plan was? Likely didn't have one. It's going to cause on a strain on her and any potential OM too I bet.

Originally Posted by LH19
So as always I am curious if an om has popped up?
Originally Posted by mako
I have no idea if an OM exists, I wouldn't be surprised since if you recall she was buying new lingerie and carrying around condoms a year ago so why not now.
I wonder if the 45 min move wasn't about another man more so than a reasonable place to rent. Though, like you said it doesn't matter now. Your kids being a little older you'd think you might get a clue about it from them. At least she didn't move a guy right in with them off the bat.

Keep up being a great dad to your kids and keep staying busy on your OFF weeks. You're making progress. You'll get there...


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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Originally Posted by LH19
Three hours a day! Never doubt the determination of a WW lol. She can’t be liking this gases prices right now lol. Boy your kids are young too and are going to resent her for doing this to them. Your W is at the perfect MLC/ Grass is greener stage. Anyways glad to see you are doing well. Anything we can help you with or have you waived the white flag?

Yeah I’ve waived the white flag as far as the marriage goes.

We had something good, once, though that was a really long time ago. The kids would most certainly be better off with us together (assuming it was a good relationship). Financially we’d be better off. Those external factors make a lot of sense.

But a lot has changed. Last year, I freely went back to her with no demands. Now, that wouldn’t happen. I feel like she just strung me along and it burned up most of my goodwill, I don’t really trust her anymore. I mentioned probably in thread 1 that I wrote a love letter early on in the sitch, I couldn’t honestly say many of those things today. Even now, with a lower bar to meet, our communication remains poor. I have a lot of resentment that I’m working on. Could I go back if I made a bunch of demands that she was willing to meet? I don't know, there’s just a lot of baggage. Nothing is necessarily a deal breaker that couldn’t be worked out, but it would take a lot of work, and I’m not sure she’s worth it now. She’s been pushing me away for 3 or 4 years and she finally succeeded.

So yeah, I’ve waived the white flag. It helps to write stuff out though and have you all call things out if needed.


Me: 43 W: 41
Together 2009, Married 2011
Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5
Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
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Hi BL,

Originally Posted by BL42
Fantastic you get to see your kids on a regular basis during your "OFF" weeks. I have the same luxury in my sitch based on my virtual job and work schedule. Definitely a concern of mine with the D to miss out on half my kids' lives, so have done anything I can to stay engaged.

Yeah, it really is nice to still see them most days, I don’t feel so far apart from them even if it’s just like 30 minutes in the morning and afternoon.

One thing I should add, a big plus to all this is I’ve improved my mindset with my kids. I wasn’t always very good at being a father. I always loved them completely of course, but they often overwhelmed me and parenting was always something that stressed me out. That’s not really the case all that much anymore. I hate having them just half the time, but I think it makes me appreciate them more and keeps me rejuvenated.

Originally Posted by BL42
Sounds like you've given it some thought so don't want to argue with your pros & cons, but believe you should really think about a move like this. {snip, a bunch of valid reasons not to move}

If it's really best for your kids and for you, then go for it.

I know. Everything you say is part of the consideration, I've gone back and forth at times. It’s tough, and hard to figure out what the right thing is for all of us. So far moving feels like the right thing. I’m not all that concerned about the younger two, the oldest I am.

One might say "just wait and figure things out, you don't have to decide yet," and that is also partly true. But if I did that I would need to get ready to buy W out (at current very high values) so I'd basically be making the decision anyway.


Originally Posted by BL42
This does seem crazy. How can a parent move so far away from your kids' home base? It also sounds untenable. There's another poster (Drh2001?) who's W went as far across state lines and almost as far away and he has the kids most of the weeks. The kids are going to resent her for it, and she's going to start resenting it as well. I know you're considering moving to be closer, but she can't have banked on you doing that. Wonder what her long term plan was? Likely didn't have one. It's going to cause on a strain on her and any potential OM too I bet.

I wonder if the 45 min move wasn't about another man more so than a reasonable place to rent. Though, like you said it doesn't matter now. Your kids being a little older you'd think you might get a clue about it from them. At least she didn't move a guy right in with them off the bat.

Keep up being a great dad to your kids and keep staying busy on your OFF weeks. You're making progress. You'll get there...

I don’t understand it. When she moved out I was still planning to keep the house so she didn’t have any expectation for the driving to improve. I think she just didn’t really think of how big a deal it was going to be. It certainly could have been based on some OM, but I never really got that impression even though like I said I wouldn’t really know.

Thanks for the input!


Me: 43 W: 41
Together 2009, Married 2011
Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5
Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
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Originally Posted by mako
Yeah I’ve waived the white flag as far as the marriage goes.
Let her go. That is all you can do.
Originally Posted by mako
We had something good, once, though that was a really long time ago.
Amen
Originally Posted by mako
The kids would most certainly be better off with us together (assuming it was a good relationship).
Amen
Originally Posted by mako
Financially we’d be better off. Those external factors make a lot of sense.
Amen
Originally Posted by mako
Last year, I freely went back to her with no demands.
I remember. I took a lot of heat from the board for saying that was a bad idea.
Originally Posted by mako
I have a lot of resentment that I’m working on.
Time and space to eat through it.
Originally Posted by mako
Could I go back if I made a bunch of demands that she was willing to meet? I don't know, there’s just a lot of baggage. Nothing is necessarily a deal breaker that couldn’t be worked out, but it would take a lot of work, and I’m not sure she’s worth it now. She’s been pushing me away for 3 or 4 years and she finally succeeded.
What do you think made her push you away?

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mako,
Originally Posted by mako
I think she just didn’t really think of how big a deal it was going to be.
I'd be willing to bet this is the case. So often the WAS is emotions & reactions and not logic & planning.

It really is going to wear on her as time goes on. Besides her commute time and gas money, in relationships with the kids and dating partners.

Just make sure moving closer (if you choose to do so) is in the best interest of you and the kids and leave the impact to her out of the equation.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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Originally Posted by LH19
What do you think made her push you away?

She told me around the first BD a year ago that she pushed me away hoping that would cause me to do more to come closer. Apparently her being cold and distant was going to cause me to decide to be more affectionate. Instead it made me think she was totally uninterested in me so I focused my energy on me and the kids.

Like I said, communication was poor.

I suppose it's not the craziest idea. DBers say the LBS has to drop the rope and let go and maybe the WAS will come back. But I think feeling ignored works differently when you're the WAS wanting to leave vs being actively in the relationship. I understand too that she felt ignored and this probably felt like some kind of last resort, but really we should have been in counseling. Anyway, it didn't work.

Originally Posted by BL42
mako,
Originally Posted by mako
I think she just didn’t really think of how big a deal it was going to be.
I'd be willing to bet this is the case. So often the WAS is emotions & reactions and not logic & planning.

It really is going to wear on her as time goes on. Besides her commute time and gas money, in relationships with the kids and dating partners.

Just make sure moving closer (if you choose to do so) is in the best interest of you and the kids and leave the impact to her out of the equation.

I think it's wearing on her now. She just mentioned today that she's thinking of moving back closer when her lease ends if I don't move (she knows I am planning to but not set in stone yet).

You're correct, any move (and any decision from here on, really) is based on the best interests of me and the kids, period, not hers.

Last edited by mako; 03/09/22 10:31 PM.

Me: 43 W: 41
Together 2009, Married 2011
Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5
Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
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Originally Posted by mako
The middle one seems fine and never talks about any of this. At least once a week the youngest asks me when Mommy and Daddy will live together again and then goes on about how she wishes that would happen. The oldest has gotten violent at school at times and got suspended once, and he has explicitly said he’s acting out cause he's mad that we are splitting up. He’s in IC too now so I hope he can work through that. I think a lot of times when I get sad I’m sad for the life that I wanted them to have that I know they now won’t. I can do my best for them but nothing will be the same as having their parents together as a loving family. I know I will be alright, they are still my biggest concern in all this.

Validate the youngest, relating to her emotions. Same with the others. One of the best skills to have, teach them.
Glad your oldest is in IC. IC is great for the kids. One of mine children is more "healthy" than I due to effective IC.


Mine were 5,7,9 @ time of Divorce. 19,21,22 now. Every other week with me. They are doing well, but you never really know how D truly effects. them. We all just do our best to love them and get them ready to be out in the real world. This experience may toughen them up earlier than we would like, but they may be able to deal with other issues in the future much better.


Glad to see an update!

Wish you well,
R2C


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Originally Posted by mako
I understand too that she felt ignored and this probably felt like some kind of last resort, but really we should have been in counseling. Anyway, it didn't work.
Do you interact with her different now? And probably more important, women in general?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Validate the youngest, relating to her emotions. Same with the others. One of the best skills to have, teach them.
Glad your oldest is in IC. IC is great for the kids. One of mine children is more "healthy" than I due to effective IC.


Mine were 5,7,9 @ time of Divorce. 19,21,22 now. Every other week with me. They are doing well, but you never really know how D truly effects. them. We all just do our best to love them and get them ready to be out in the real world. This experience may toughen them up earlier than we would like, but they may be able to deal with other issues in the future much better.


Glad to see an update!

Wish you well,
R2C

Thanks for this. Yours were pretty close to where mine are. I know kids of D turn out fine all the time, but it's still nice to hear about. I'll never know how D really affected them, how they would have turned out otherwise, so it's pointless to worry about. As you say, all we can do is give them all the love we can and prepare them for the world.

Yes, I do validate all of them. That's a positive of all this, DBing gets you into working on that so I am better at it than I used to be.


Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Do you interact with her different now? And probably more important, women in general?

I treat her like a coworker that I don't particularly like. She gets all the business and logistical info she needs in a professional manner. I don't joke around with her or show her much personality. I don't initiate contact unless I need something from her such as kids or financial related. She will still vent to me about things, rarely, mostly about work but sometimes about how hard life is lately. I validate these things.

Women in general, I suppose I'm more open with than I used to be, I'm willing to show more personality with random people than when I was still "married." For example I chatted with a woman for 15 minutes at the day care the other day, that would never have happened before most likely. Like I said I have no interest in dating at the moment, but it's good, I can use the practice.


Me: 43 W: 41
Together 2009, Married 2011
Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5
Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
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