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kml #2928614 01/19/22 03:43 AM
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Dawn70 - Understand you don't have a mortgage (awesome!), but still a great discussion on finances...

Originally Posted by MLCxH
Originally Posted by AndrewP
Paradoxically we changed our mortgage to come out weekly - the more frequent payments mean a fair savings in interest and faster pay-down.
While paying down debt is usually a good thing, mortgages can be an exception in some cases. For one, mortgage interest can be tax deductible. Secondly, if your loan was financed or refinanced in the recent past you probably have a good rate (though likely not the case in 2003) and you probably can get a much higher return using the money for paying off other debt or investing it elsewhere instead of paying off the mortgage early.
Mortgage rates were at an all time low at one point last year and I actually thought about refinancing to pull equity out and invest it when the market pulls back (at some point it'll retreat 10, 20, 30%), but I have such a low rate already it was a harder sell plus the peace of mind DnK alludes to below. I (and ExW by default) was fortunate to buy into the market in a retirement vehicle right when it bottomed out due to COVID and that investment has since doubled in less than two years.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Any extra monies could/should be utilized to pay off high interest loans first. Then those loan payments can be included in the extra monies and pay off the next loan faster as well. Mortgage last.
Completely agree. Always think of the return, so tackle the higher interest rates you're paying first, and maximize the higher rates of return.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Of course, once the house is paid off, the bank can’t take it from you. That security is pretty good. So, at times, it makes sense to secure one’s dwelling ahead of the most theoretically effective schedule.
Peace of mind is the intangible in the equation, and may make it worth it despite the investment math. Hard to quantify the knowledge you own your own home. The good news with extra/early payments is even if it doesn't "maximize" you're return you're still better off building equity for the future than blowing it on some other item you don't need.

Originally Posted by DnJ
I’ve even paid off my mortgage before any investing. No point getting 2% while paying 5% - that kind of thinking.

The bank was never to pleased with my decisions. And always tried to talk me out of my course and have me invest in some sort of product. Ha, the bank is there to make money; not make DnJ money. Take its “advice” with a grain of salt. Heck, skip the salt, and do your own math. Lol
That said, what if you had invested those extra payments into a broad based stock index instead? The S&P500 is up 250% in the last ten years! Granted, there's risk...it could decline.

Originally Posted by kml
It’s a chronic topic of debate in personal finance circles, whether to pay the mortgage off early or not. A lot depends on your taxes, your other investments, and current mortgage and bond rates.
Good debate. Think it partially depends on the person too and their financial discipline.

Originally Posted by kml
For somebody in their thirties, it might make sense at these interest rates to put all their extra money into stock market investments instead.
Very true.

At separation I decided to buy a new vehicle. I was running my previous into the ground to get the most value out of it but it was older and less reliable plus I needed something bigger for the kids (ExW had the "main" family vehicle we used for long trips). At the time I decided to finance the purchase because interest rates were relatively low and I had uncertainty about how the D would play out financially. More recently I decided to pay it off completely because I was getting 0.4% in an online savings account but paying 1.9% financing on the car. Now if the stock market pulls back maybe I could've used that cash to buy in low and in the long run be better off, but made the decision in the short run to save the 1.5% difference over the next few years.

Anyway...good to think along these lines when it comes to finances.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
Dawn70 #2928689 01/20/22 08:13 PM
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Whew....this week has been one wild-a$$ed ride from beginning to not quite end. My class started this week and I swear people were testing my Jesus Tuesday. I did most of the prep/set-up Monday, but had a couple of last minute things that HAD to wait until right before class started and of course that is when everyone decided they needed my help for something. One instructor couldn't get his heat to come on and it was cold, another was having to go test for Covid and needed someone to start her 3 classes, another needed me to make some copies because he was late to class....it was NON STOP. I finally got to take a break and sit down when MY class started and the teaching assistant took over.

Budget issues are persistent and more serious than we were originally told. As in, they are talking about furloughing us again and maybe even permanently "laying off" some of us. So, now Sparky and I have to have a tough conversation. I don't want to seek other employment because this is my dream job, but I can't sit around waiting for the other shoe to drop either, since our family budget (to include all his mom's obligations that are currently our obligations) relies on both of us having income and mine being higher than his. Ugh......................I don't need this stress in an already max stress situation.

Then, to top it off, my boss told me he had some complaints he'd fielded about how I set up for the class. As soon as I saw the list, I KNEW who made the complaints and I was NOT upset that someone complained, but was upset that most of the complaints were things I addressed with this person last semester and now they are brought up again, not with me, but with my boss. He and I had a long talk and he understood my point, but I was livid when I left here yesterday. Of course the person making the complaints is the one who asks me for favors nearly every single day. Isn't that always the way? My boss is a very caring person and he kept letting me know that I am VERY good at my job and he appreciates all I do and he appreciates my willingness to hear the complaints without reacting. Oh, I reacted alright, I am just professional enough that I reacted away from him, behind closed doors. But like I said, I'm not pissed that someone complained, because I'm totally not perfect. I'm pissed that the person who complained didn't have the courtesy to come talk to me first.

I had to take my mom to the eye doctor yesterday after that happened, so while I was waiting for her, I treated myself to lunch at a hamburger joint and then went and got a cupcake from a bakery. Did a little shopping and bought myself a new phone charger because I'm a big spender! LOL It was nice to just step away from stress and drama for a bit. My mom is such a mom sometimes. I had sent her a pic of something I had seen online and asked if she went in her local store if she would get it for me and I would pay her back when I saw her (it was a very inexpensive item). She said sure. Anyway, when I went to pick her up yesterday, she asked me what I was going to do to kill time and I told her. She gave me money so I could buy myself the item if I ran across it. LOL She told me it could be my birthday present. Such a mom. But, I appreciated it all the same and didn't find what I was looking for but will hang on to the cash and hopefully find it soon.

So much to do tomorrow. I have to sub for a prof who is out with Covid and was supposed to attend a Zoom meeting, but obviously can't if I'm teaching a class. Ugh....it is going to be a long, stressful, challenging, depressing semester. Here's to May when my niece graduates and gets married and my nephew and his fiance move back closer to him. Come on summer!


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Dawn70 #2928690 01/20/22 08:13 PM
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Move closer to HOME, not him.................we SO need a working edit button (I say, preaching to the whole entire choir).


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Dawn70 #2928693 01/20/22 08:25 PM
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So Dawn - are the financial problems due to a failing college, or are they Covid-related? (I know college enrollment is down during Covid, but may roar back once things calm down). If it's a long-term problem and not a short-term one, what are your options? Is there anyplace within commuting distance of where you are that you could get a similar job? Could you sell or rent the current property for enough to finance living quarters in another area if you have to move to work at another college or university? Are there industry jobs that you might like instead?

You seem like an essential linchpin and probably would not be the first fired, but if you think it's al ong-term sinking ship, sometimes it's better to start interviewing for other jobs in the first wave.

kml #2928705 01/20/22 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kml
So Dawn - are the financial problems due to a failing college, or are they Covid-related? (I know college enrollment is down during Covid, but may roar back once things calm down). If it's a long-term problem and not a short-term one, what are your options? Is there anyplace within commuting distance of where you are that you could get a similar job? Could you sell or rent the current property for enough to finance living quarters in another area if you have to move to work at another college or university? Are there industry jobs that you might like instead?

You seem like an essential linchpin and probably would not be the first fired, but if you think it's al ong-term sinking ship, sometimes it's better to start interviewing for other jobs in the first wave.

Long story, NOT Covid related. Covid is exacerbating it to an extent with declining enrollments, but didn't cause it. Sadly, looking at population trends, enrollment will NOT be likely to roar back post-Covid. Overall population numbers are on the downswing which means, overall, fewer potential students. It is a sad story of financial mismanagement, unchecked, over an extended time. There are not other colleges near us where I could go somewhere else and we are tied to this area because of his mom. Industry jobs aren't at all plentiful either, though I did happen to see an industry job posting today for a lab tech in a local industrial plant, testing samples as they come out of the manufacturing process, so I will likely check on that...it may even be a bit of a pay raise. We'll see. We are in a small rural area. My only real option will be to drive. Not my favorite option, but we just can't make it on one salary, even in a place where the cost of living is as low as it is here.


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Dawn70 #2928730 01/21/22 02:19 AM
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{{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}}


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16

If we don't look into the darkness we won't find the light.

Walk along the side of the road with a bag & you're gonna end up with a lot of trash!
Dawn70 #2928794 01/22/22 02:58 PM
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I live in an area probably about as rural as you do Dawn. Cities are close by(ish) but we're not them.

A good number of years ago I was involved with a project with the local school board doing an analysis that more or less boiled down to what schools to close. Data was gathered about the buildings, other structures, estimated lifespan, replacement costs etc. Exciting stuff I'm sure.

I recall being in a meeting where one of the more plainly spoken people commented that he was tired of people complaining about all the schools being closed when as he said, if they wanted schools to be open they just needed to have more babies crazy

In a related story, I recall driving my kids by the elementary school I went to. I was the in the first Kindergarten class they had. My older siblings had done their first few years in a one-room school house. My kids were both shocked to see it standing and exclaimed "They're still using it???". A few years later it too got closed. I think it's a church or something now.

The statistics aren't available but I do wonder if the exodus of people from urban areas to more rural ones in the last couple of years might not change that dynamic, but the reality is that I think that most people just aren't having babies and certainly not at the rate they used to be. There were 5 of us kids and we were a mid-sized family back in the day. My son and my nephew are the last of our line. My daughter I'm sure will never have kids and my son really doesn't seem to have any interest either. He's my only son. My father was an only son. My grandfather was an only son. His father had one brother whose line I believe has died out. So going back several generations it's up to my son and my nephew if there will be any more little "P" boys to pass on this branch of the family.

Not looking good for expansion of educational systems in the long term that's for sure.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Dawn70 #2928796 01/22/22 05:47 PM
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In the U.S., most of that exodus seems to be retiring baby boomers, who can cash out the equity in their more expensive urban homes to buy inexpensively in other places. They certainly aren’t going to have more babies! Some are younger people who can work virtually, and some small cities are recruiting those people with generous cash bonuses for moving there. Some bought homes in rural places to ride out the pandemic but now want to move back to the city as their jobs are moving back into the office. It would certainly be a boon to rural areas if more companies retained work from home options.

Still, I know a lot of unhappy patients who made moves like that in retirement. Places that look great to live in when you visit may reveal flaws you didn’t consider when you move there. And recreating a friend group in a new place when you’re older is difficult for a lot of people.

For example, my previous receptionist and her husband retired to Tucson. Financially, it made sense - they could take the equity from their home here, which was not paid off, and buy a newer home there outright. They had lived there got a while over twenty years ago and still had friends in that town. Taxes are lower (which, of course, means less money for schools!).

But when they got there, their friends, who were still working and had their own well-established social lives, weren’t available to hang out. And they missed their grandkids here and drive out frequently to stay for a week or two and visit them - so frequently that they can’t join any regular activities in Tucson that might be a source of new friends, like sports teams or book clubs.

I know she would have been happier if they had just bought a smaller place here, and stayed near family and friends.

Not that moving is always a bad idea - lots of people do it successfully. But there are a lot of pitfalls one needs to consider. (Also the locals don’t always appreciate urbanites flush with housing equity moving in and driving up property prices so that the locals’ own kids can’t afford homes there).

Dawn70 #2929878 02/10/22 05:38 PM
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I realized that I haven't posted on my own thread in several weeks and lots has been going on so I thought I would post an update. Someone reached out to me to check on me the other day and I appreciate it more than you know. wink

2022 has NOT been a stellar year for me. I spent my 52nd birthday sitting by my dad's bed in an ICU hospital room. He had emergency surgery the night before. I will always be forever grateful to my sister who went to his house to check on him after I called him and he sounded "off". I called and asked her to go because she lives much closer to him than I do and I knew she could get there a lot quicker. If she hadn't gone, he wouldn't be here today.
He listened to the doctors at the hospital and got to come home last Sat....exactly 7 days after going in, so yay for that. He's got a road in front of him, but as he says "ain't no step for a stepper".

My biggest "news" is that our university announced last Thursday that they are furloughing ALL employees (including faculty) 20% effective Feb. 28. It will likely remain in place until the end of the fiscal year June 30. We are going to 4 day work weeks, but also 4 day pay per week. So, the difficult conversation that Sparky and I were going to have to have suddenly became very easy. We got the news via Zoom meeting on Thursday, as school was out that day due to an ice storm in our area. Sparky was home with me so he listened and we talked and he tried to be as positive and supportive as he could be. I told him as much as I love my job and want to stay in it, I have no choice but to seek other employment now because I can't live on 20% less. Yet another time when us having to support Sparky's mom is screwing us because if we had all her financial crap off our plates, we would be ok, even with me taking 20% less. So, for now, I'm going to seek part-time employment to supplement my 80% salary the university is still paying me until I can find a full-time permanent position. I have a couple of leads already and while it is hard to actually apply for them, I can't sit here and wait for the powers that be to tell me whether I'm still going to be employed come May 6 when classes end. It makes me sad because I really had no desire to leave her. I like my job, I am good at it, people rely on me. And now, I'm subject to whatever whim administration has concerning who they ax and who they keep. They are looking at everyone, even tenured faculty, so it is a huge mess.

I asked Sparky if we could do something fun this weekend as a distraction and Valentine's date all rolled into one and he said he loved that idea, so we are going to a big town with more options to go to a video game lounge (Sparky's thing), eat at a really cool sushi place, have gourmet cheesecake for dessert, and do a little shopping at Target (my thing) on the way home. I absolutely cannot wait. Sunday, Sparky has plans with his work friends for a few hours, then he is coming home to cook me a steak and shrimp supper and we're going to watch a movie. It will be a good weekend and hopefully get me out of my head a little because man I have been in a funk for awhile now and I'm just over it. I have 3 songs that play on repeat in my head at the moment and I'm trying to hold on to all of them and remind myself this whole bull$h!t mess is temporary: "My Give a D@mn's Busted" by JoDee Messina, "Stand a Little Rain" by Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, and "Life Ain't Always Beautiful" by Gary Allan.

I'm hanging in and hoping to hit the lottery. I wish I was kidding..............................


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Dawn70 #2929904 02/10/22 09:15 PM
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Dang - I am so sorry.

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