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After reading some of your responses, I was almost excited to come home and begin trying my 180; My husband had other plans. Tonight, he wanted to talk about our divorce and equitable distribution. I listened, I had some counter offers in which he was completely offended and literally told me that his offer WAS THE offer and otherwise I could see him in court. I did manage to get him talked off of that ledge with money talks thrown around; since he IS the very one that wants to stay out of court.
After coming to zero conclusion, tonight, I DID ask him if I would ever know WHY he had decided this was over. He said that it was because I never took responsibility for my own actions. I always deflected things toward him. I nagged him when he did things, etc........you get the picture. The ONLY thing that I was able to agree with him on was that I was chaser. When we got into heated arguments and he stepped away, if I was not finished or wanted to continue our convo, I followed him. I recognize that. BUT, the few times that I did not chase were those times when even the next day or two days or three days would pass and he would continue to tell me that "now is not a good time to talk", until I would finally drop the desire to finish the conversation.
I 100% get that every story has two sides, but I am still in shock. Stunned at the things that he said I did. These are the very things that I felt as though he did to me. We're at an impasse. I see so many relatable stories in MWD's books, to where the couples are literally blaming each other for the same thing.
I feel like I am back to square one of not having a clue as to what to do. He told me tonight that he had accepted that this is who I was and that was okay, but he wasn't going to live with it. I have literally sit her and racked my brain for 2 hours before typing this and tried to just rest and see examples or literally try to see where this was coming from. I totally understand that we ALL get in a rut, but I also know I have begged and pleaded for US to get help. When asked about that, he said it wouldn't work. He knew the situation and knew what to do and a therapist would have done nothing except make things worse for him. He said that therapy would have probably sent him over the edge and put him into an even darker place.
I am speechless, exhausted and cried out tonight. As we still continue to live under the same roof. Him - resorted to the basement and me just here.
With the exception of working on me, what do I do. Just live my life as if he doesn't exist? I seriously want to crawl up into a ball and just be. This is supposed to be my person. My best friend. The person I grew old with. The fact that I am starring down the barrel of a third divorce is seriously more than I think I am capable of handling.

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CathyC,
Originally Posted by CathyC
After reading some of your responses, I was almost excited to come home and begin trying my 180; My husband had other plans.
180s aren't something you can turn on & off on a dime. They require a sustained period of change. Don't expect you're just going to come home one night and try something different and that's going to change things...think long term.

Originally Posted by CathyC
Tonight, he wanted to talk about our divorce and equitable distribution. I listened, I had some counter offers in which he was completely offended and literally told me that his offer WAS THE offer and otherwise I could see him in court.
Listening is fine. But you don't need to counter. You don't want to get into a negotiation and/or argument. If you don't agree w/him offer then refer him to your attorney.

Originally Posted by CathyC
After coming to zero conclusion, tonight, I DID ask him if I would ever know WHY he had decided this was over.
This is a relationship talk/pressure which the book advises against. Try not to bring this up in the future. It won't help. You won't "convince" him and any reasons he tells you might just be excuses exaggerated or lies to justify his actions.

Originally Posted by CathyC
The ONLY thing that I was able to agree with him on was that I was chaser. When we got into heated arguments and he stepped away, if I was not finished or wanted to continue our convo, I followed him. I recognize that.
Good you're self-reflecting. If you agree this is an issue make it a 180 and don't chase.

Originally Posted by CathyC
I 100% get that every story has two sides, but I am still in shock. Stunned at the things that he said I did. These are the very things that I felt as though he did to me. We're at an impasse.
This is common. The WS/WAS will make the you and the relationship out to be monsters. Though remember you yourself described it as pretty bad.

Originally Posted by CathyC
I feel like I am back to square one of not having a clue as to what to do.
Stand up for yourself. Know you'll be alright no matter what happens. Go out, exercise, make friends, start a new hobby. Act happy (fake it until you make it). Focus on yourself and not him. Improve yourself and making your life happy without him. Accept you can't control his decision.

Originally Posted by CathyC
I am speechless, exhausted and cried out tonight.
It's very difficult. We've all been there. But you WILL get through it.

Originally Posted by CathyC
With the exception of working on me, what do I do. Just live my life as if he doesn't exist?
Live your life as you want to in a way that will make you happy and healthy and fulfilling. Don't focus on him or pursue him. That may get him thinking he'll lose you. If it doesn't, you'll be better for your efforts regardless.

Originally Posted by CathyC
I seriously want to crawl up into a ball and just be. This is supposed to be my person. My best friend. The person I grew old with. The fact that I am starring down the barrel of a third divorce is seriously more than I think I am capable of handling.
I (we) completely understand what you're going through. It's incredibly difficult. But you WILL be ok. You WILL get through this.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
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OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
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Originally Posted by CathyC
(BL42), things that I am working on in my personal therapy are how to achieve happiness alone. How do I see myself, "happy". What aspects to do I need to focus on to find myself again.
That's great. Sounds like a perfect area for you to explore. You don't need anyone to be happy; you can become a happy person on your own and that will attract others to you.

Originally Posted by CathyC
Prior to covid, I played roller derby. This stopped us dead in its tracks and we have not been able to return to play since. Our goal is to have our first practice on 2/20/22. I am excited for that and have a HUGE network or people that are supportive (for me).
COVID has made socializing difficult. I hope your roller derby league can start back up. This is a perfect example of GAL. A physical and social activity in one. Personally I'd recommend exercise. Even if it's just walking a half hour a day. Get into a regular routine...nothing like ramping up the endorphins and getting in better shape improving your mental attitude and attractiveness.

Originally Posted by CathyC
They will always "side" with me and right now, that is not what I feel like I need.
I don't know...based on the words your H is using , some support from friends may be just what you need.

Originally Posted by CathyC
I need to figure this out, my way.
You can't "figure it out". It's not a logical proof in math. It's an emotional decision. And you do not have control of what your husband does. You have to make your life better and he either will or won't come back to the marriage.

Originally Posted by CathyC
I noticed today that he has started putting his direct deposit into HIS personal account and transferring money to our joint account.
Consult an attorney on this ASAP. Understand your financial rights. You don't need to discuss it would H. You should not pick a fight. But also don't comply with his desires just to not make him mad. Protect yourself financially. "Playing nice" and giving up finances you're entitled to won't save the marriage. Stand up for yourself.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
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OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
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You go out and get a life. The LBSs that struggle the most do GAL the worst. The opposite of GAL is sitting at home and stewing in your own juices. That's a terrible way to move forward with your life.

Look, is to be sad. The emotional rollercoaster is real, and suppressing your feelings isn't advisable. Feel your emotions, process them. But don't let them rule over you. Cry. Be angry. Be frustrated. Then go out and GAL. The busier you stay the better you will feel, and the quicker you'll feel better

When he starts R talks, listen and validate. Read the validation thread. But be the one to end the conversation. "We are going to have to talk about the later, I have some where I have to be." Never tell him where you are going or what you're doing. Feel free to be a little mysterious. But find things to do and people to do them with.

And as far as marriage counseling, your WAH is right, it wouldn't have worked because his heart wasn't in it. I wouldn't dwell on that anymore.

Cathy, you can handle this. You're stronger than you think you are. Start prioritizing yourself. It takes two to make a marriage, only one to make a divorce. So whether you want the divorce or not, you don't get to control that. So focus on what you can control. Yourself.


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Try reading the pursuit and distance thread in the homework from my first post.

You will see yourself hopefully in there.


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CathyC, as BL42 said, stop "negotiating". If he wants a divorce, he should file for one, at which time your attorney can assess if his written offer is better or worse than a judge would award. You neither want to be an obstacle (by arguing) nor encourage it (by nicing). It sounds like your conversation did harm. The above is a do-no-harm approach.

I'm sorry you're staring down the barrel of a third divorce. I'm a romantic, divorced once, and even my second failed LTR was hard to face. I was able to pull her back using DB techniques--Cadet mentions Distance-Pursuer--before concluding we didn't work. Steve truly saved his marriage! GAL to rebuild yourself isn't easy but you are worth it and maybe he is to you. (Although, prioritize setting FIRM verbal abuse boundaries which will also help build you up.)

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Originally Posted by Traveler
(Although, prioritize setting FIRM verbal abuse boundaries which will also help build you up.)

I want to reiterate what Traveler says here. I've alluded to this in previous responses, but this is really important. The worst thing you could do, even worse than divorce, would be to go right back to the same dynamic you guys were in before BD. Really think about what R and MR 2.0 looks like to you, then make that the minimum standard for saving your marriage. Verbal abuse is a non-starter, and as a former borderline verbal abuser (though no where to the level you faced), it takes a lot of work on his part. Including, whether he likes it or not, individual counseling.

I know right now its hard to see that D isn't the worst thing you are facing, but really it isn't. Deep down you do not want to go back to the way things were. You start moving away from that dynamic forever by instituting what I suggested before: if he starts getting verbally abusive you shut it down. "I refuse to sit here and be verbally abused." Then get up and leave.

Remember, moving forward to MR 2.0 is the goal. But moving forward is a requirement regardless of what he ultimately decides.


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Originally Posted by SteveLW
"I refuse to sit here and be verbally abused." Then get up and leave.
^This. Repeat this phrase & action in your head over and over so you don't freeze up or back down in the moment. No big lectures or debates or fights - concise statement then simply walk away.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
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I am not going to lie. Today is bad. Maybe because it is Saturday and although he is "in the basement", we are still in the same house and pass frequently. He has come into the room that I am in and spoken a few times. I am not angry or short, but I keep my answers to a minimum and carry on with the work that I am doing. I am working from home today, but it is a slow day that allows my mind to wonder.
I am a talker. So, when my answers are short and to the point, I know that he feels like I am being a bitch. I have read so many threads on there that they are running together. I am trying to absorb everything. I have a list of abbreviations printed out and a list on how to detach printed out. I read this over and over again and it seems like something that is so far out of reach. I pray that I find the strength to move forward without having a complete nervous breakdown. I work in healthcare and had to go to the ER on 1/1 because I couldn't breath. I literally woke me from my sleep. I called my husband when I got some pretty scary blood work back and he told me "not to freak out, wait for the CT (this was before he asked for the divorce). He never showed up, I wound up having pneumonia and a plural effusion. Fast forward to 1/20, I had taken a couple of weeks off, went back to work on the 20th and knew that I still didn't feel right. Sharp stabbing pains.....long story short, I have a pulmonary embolism. I likely had it on the 1st but it was hidden by the pneumonia. When I asked him why he never went to the ER, explaining how scared I was, he told me that he felt that I was trying to manipulate him for attention. I think that is ONE of the most inhumane things someone has ever said to me. As a medical professional, I KNEW what the blood work implicated and I was literally scared for my life and at that current moment...didn't want to die alone. Do you all ever look at these threads (as an outsider) and just ask......"why do you want to continue down this path?"

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Originally Posted by CatchC
I think that is ONE of the most inhumane things someone has ever said to me.
It's common. A week after my long-term XGF and I broke-up, I totaled my car and called her for help. She didn't believe me--she thought it was a ruse to manipulate her. In fairness, I had tried to persuade her in the days before and her wariness to manipulation was off-the-charts. It's ironic that the same XGF lamented she was diagnosed with a neurodegenerative disease a week after her XH broke up with her, and it similarly pained her he would not listen. Poignant moments.

Originally Posted by CathyC
Do you all ever look at these threads (as an outsider) and just ask......"why do you want to continue down this path?"
You've been together a long time. It makes sense that part of you wants to stay together, and part of you wants to escape. Not to beat a dead horse, but my big hopes for you are: a) You will set boundaries for firm action when he or your own negative self-talk calls you names, b) You won't allow your emotions to lead to passive-aggressive behavior like threatening divorce or asking him to divorce--you'll take control by either filing or not filing, c) You will begin to find CathyC either solo or with your friends, realizing your H is currently neither your partner nor your friend. That may change in time.

You are not being a "witch" if you respond with efficient, non-rude answers. "Have you done the laundry yet?" "No, I haven't." Don't accept such names. Unless you're a practitioner of Wicca, of course!

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