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Hi everyone,

Have any of you seen the movies Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, and Before Midnight? I just watched the last movie of this installment and thought about this forum.

I watched Before Sunrise when I was in my early twenties, just like the characters in the movie. Quick description of the plot: two people in their early twenties meet on a train and decide to get off the train together to spent a day on Vienna. The theme is, I think, the romantic ideas we have about love at that age.

I watched the second movie, Before Sunset, when I was approaching thirty, had had a long term failed relationship and had just met my h. In this movie the characters meet again (after not having seen each other for many years) and share some of the disillusionment in love (and life) they have encountered since. Both them, and I, lost some of our naivite.

Just now, in my early forties, I watched the third movie, Before Sunrise. The two characters are married (to each other) and young parents. They are tired, bicker, and carry some resentment towards each other, which resurfaces when they fight. I love the dialogue in all three movies and, while watching Before Midnight, it was like watching my h and I fight. It seemed like, no matter what the issues are in a m, conflicts between couples sound very similar. At some point, when there is no resolution, one of the characters tells the other "I don't love you anymore."

I hope they make a fourth!

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WOS,

I'm not familiar w/those movies. Hope you're doing alright. Anything you need advice on?


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Originally Posted by WOS
It seemed like, no matter what the issues are in a m, conflicts between couples sound very similar. At some point, when there is no resolution, one of the characters tells the other "I don't love you anymore."

Relationships generally fall apart for one of three reasons: (1) One partner becomes emotionally unstable for a variety of reasons, which may include mental illness, addiction, issues related to a bad childhood, etc. (2) One partner has a momentary lapse of judgement and cheats and the other partner can't forgive them, or (3) the relationship slowly degrades over time for both people.

In the first case, sometimes people have latent issues and they either temporarily get better (an addict stops using for a while, a person with a mood disorder pursues treatment, etc), or the partner knows the issues are there and chooses to ignore them initially, fooling themselves or falsely believing that things will magically get better in the future.

This "fooling yourself" phenomenon is a lot of what goes on -- you fall in love with who you want the person to be versus who they really are. Over time, your veneer gets stripped away, you see them for who they really are and it’s no longer acceptable.

The tragic situation is when someone who was emotionally healthy when you met and dated them has a breakdown after you're married and just becomes unlivable due to their issues. That's rare but it certainly does happen, people just "go crazy" sometimes.

The third scenario is really what the quote above is about. Chances are if the husband is ignoring the wife's complaints, it’s because he's not very motivated to respond to them. The reason is generally that he's not having his needs met either, and his complaints are likely also being ignored.

That's the vicious cycle that tends to land people here -- your needs aren't being met, so you're less motivated to provide your husband with what he needs. His needs aren't being met, so he's not motivated to give you what you need, and that spinning wheel eventually drives you apart until one person (or both people) decides they want out.

Sometimes the scenarios are combined, you could have all three things going on.

My point is, unless you "went crazy" after you married H, this is in no way your fault for not responding to his complaints. He is equally if not more culpable than you are in that regard. Don't let him off the hook for that, and don't shoulder the blame.

It's good to be aware of these dynamics so that you can identify and avoid them in the future, but you're not guilty.

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Originally Posted by WOS
Hi everyone,

Have any of you seen the movies Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, and Before Midnight? I just watched the last movie of this installment and thought about this forum.

I watched Before Sunrise when I was in my early twenties, just like the characters in the movie. Quick description of the plot: two people in their early twenties meet on a train and decide to get off the train together to spent a day on Vienna. The theme is, I think, the romantic ideas we have about love at that age.

I watched the second movie, Before Sunset, when I was approaching thirty, had had a long term failed relationship and had just met my h. In this movie the characters meet again (after not having seen each other for many years) and share some of the disillusionment in love (and life) they have encountered since. Both them, and I, lost some of our naivite.

Just now, in my early forties, I watched the third movie, Before Sunrise. The two characters are married (to each other) and young parents. They are tired, bicker, and carry some resentment towards each other, which resurfaces when they fight. I love the dialogue in all three movies and, while watching Before Midnight, it was like watching my h and I fight. It seemed like, no matter what the issues are in a m, conflicts between couples sound very similar. At some point, when there is no resolution, one of the characters tells the other "I don't love you anymore."

I hope they make a fourth!

I haven't seen any of those. Though I do not think you are wrong about conflicts between couples. I think many marital problems are rooted in similar issues. But mainly, I think people in love tend to overlook a lot of red flags in the other person. One of my favorite quotes is that small problems become huge problems after you are married. It is so true. Even things you thought were "cute" when you were dating can become grating. My wife has a very distinctive sneeze. When we were dating I thought it was cute. After we were married, and resentments had built up, and we were no longer connected, and the marriage was in disarray, her sneeze was like nails on a chalkboard to me.

Red flags when dating are one of those things that is difficult to talk to young couples about. It is one of those things that people have to go through, unfortunately, and cannot seem to learn from other's experiences.

I also think lots of people get being IN love confused with loving someone. I know my favorite bald TV psychologist from Texas points this out to people all the time. That butterflies in your stomach, over the moon feeling is fleeting. Loving someone and all of their warts and faults is a completely different thing. So many people are addicted to the limerance, "in love" feeling, which is why as soon as a marriage settles into the routine, they are on the prowl for the next person to give them the butterflies again.

Anyway, I am a bit off topic. But I agree with you, many of the issues in marriage have the same underlying conditions causing it. But there are plenty of exceptions and some people are flawed to the point of never going to be able to be a successful half of a marriage, at least not without a lot of self-reflection, therapy, and help.

Last edited by SteveLW; 01/19/22 06:30 PM.

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Originally Posted by BL42
WOS,

I'm not familiar w/those movies. Hope you're doing alright. Anything you need advice on?

Actually, I do ;-). My IC advised me to share with my h what I need from him. This seems counter intuitive to everything I've read on this forum, however, is this a good idea? There is so much we need to discuss (Going to read the DR chapter on 'asking for what you need' on this).

SteveLW & LH19, thank you for your elaborate discussions of love, marriage, and relationships. My h and I met when neither one of us was a fully integrated, healthy person and we both probably presented ourselves as more stable than we were. I know I ignored red flags, one being that he was only able to to share and be vulnerable with me after he had had a few drinks. I myself, loved how much he seemed to love me (my self esteem was very low) and felt secure.

We have both grown a lot though over the years (or so I thought). There was a time, after MC, that we seemed to have made a huge leap in our communication and relationship. Add some distance however, and everything fell apart like a house of cards.

Since then he has been reaching out more, showing more interest, and making more of an effort. He even said that he feels bad that I have to do everything on my own (due to his work abroad). Prior to this, he seemed to have zero sympathy for me. I know these are scraps and nothing to get too excited about, but progress starts with mini steps (according to the DR book).

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I've watched Before Sunset, not the other two yet. It was unique--consistently almost entirely of witty dialogue and little action--but managed to stay interesting.

Originally Posted by WOS
My IC advised me to share with my h what I need from him.
I'd ask more about what your needs are and why your IC suggests sharing them?

If somebody's on-the-fence or done with a relationship, you're usually not going to lure them in with more relationship obligations. It tends to make more sense to ask such things of them if and when you've both decided to commit to the relationship again. Now, if we're talking about things they're responsible for whether or not you two are getting back together--like support payments--that's entirely different. I look forward to hearing more about your specifics, WOS.

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Hey WOS,

Traveler provided some excellent advice, I would hold off on having that convo until much later in the game when it's evident your H is able and willing to make an effort to repair the relationship.

Anything convo related to logistics, children, finances etc is fine. But I strongly suggest you do not initiate any kind of relationship convo/obligations at this point.

I always liked the squirrel analogy in this board. If you want to have a squirrel eat out of your hand (ie attract H back), you allow it the freedom to come and go without spooking it. If the squirrel finally gets enough courage to eat out of your hand and you go to pet it (ie have a relationship convo), it will quickly bolt back up the tree and you will have to earn it's trust all over again. Let your H come back to you without spooking him.

You will absolutely know when he is ready to have a relationship convo because he will actually bring it up.

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Thank you both for your advice, that makes sense to me. When I was on the phone with my h, and was going to share my needs with him, I just couldn't.

To provide more detail, I was talking to my ic about how I felt like my mood and well-being were contingent upon my communication with my h as well as how my son is doing (not in this order). With regards to my h, she suggested that I share with my h that it makes me happy when we talk and share parts of our lives with each other (he is abroad) and that I enjoy his moral support as I struggle with helping our son. She also suggested we set a time once a week to talk about the more serious stuff.

It is possible that, in my h's opinion, we are in a functioning relationship again. I know him and his family and this is how they function. There is a fight, which escalates (for instance divorce is mentioned), followed by silence and avoiding each other until one person approaches the other again. When interactions are resumed, the conflict is over. All of this takes place without ever talking about the problem and resolving it. I worry that this is what's happened with us.

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WOS,

Could you explain your H's work situation? How long has he been / will he be abroad? Has this bene a regular thing, or a one-off? Why did you relocate away from family and friends right before his work travel? Any chance you could move back to have more support with your son and for yourself?

Doesn't sound like H's family modeled a healthy conflict resolution. Wonder if that's happened a lot between the two of you over the last 15+ years?


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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Originally Posted by BL42
WOS,

Could you explain your H's work situation? How long has he been / will he be abroad? Has this bene a regular thing, or a one-off? Why did you relocate away from family and friends right before his work travel? Any chance you could move back to have more support with your son and for yourself?

Doesn't sound like H's family modeled a healthy conflict resolution. Wonder if that's happened a lot between the two of you over the last 15+ years?

I'm still nervous about sharing too much information, but here goes: He is in the military and abroad for a year. This is a one-off for him. The military is also the reason why we have moved a lot these last few years (and have no real support network). My family lives in another country. Legally, I cannot move back without permission from my h. In addition, my son receives the services he needs where we are now, which also makes me very reluctant to leave.

Overall, it feels like I have little control over my own life and little room to make changes.

BL42, overall, over the years, his method of conflict resolution (not saying anything) has indeed caused us great difficulties, mainly lots of underlying resentment. After mc, however, things were better. The fact that he's currently not communicating could be a) him resorting to old habits or b) having no interest in repairing things. His actions lately make me think it's the first.

I think that when I said my intention was to remain in the marriage, he assumed things were "fixed." I feel the need to elaborate by adding that my 'intent to remain in the marriage doesn't mean things are 'fixed.' For me, it means that I am willing to work towards trust and connection again.

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