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DnJ #2928216 01/10/22 06:42 PM
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Hello Andrew

I love, Architects of our lives. And lives, like buildings, need strong stable foundations. We are all crafting and creating.

A husband and wife should each be the other’s most important investment of their precious resources. Especially if the team is to last.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
This is part of what is holding me back from dating. I would expect that any person I would meet would make their children their priority.

Interesting, the very thing you do to others, is what is holding you back because you don’t want that done to you.

Part of my now single parenting was having open honest difficult conversation with my kids. And I had to get my ideas and ideologies straight in my head and heart to better convey. One of these is this hierarchy, this investment of self. Life’s architecture.

None of my kids would want what happened to me, to happen to them. No one wants their spouse to blow up their lives and marriage. No one wants their spouse to be like their Mom.

This damage could keep one from being open and loving. Yet two of my my kids are in healthy long term relationships. One is engaged.

As children grow up, marry, and have their own family, priorities change. Investing in self and your life’s partner shouldn’t.

Perhaps it helps to look at this idea, less of neglecting and more of investing. There is plenty of time and resources to go around, and all priorities need some. No one gets neglected. However, if one doesn’t realized their list, or even have one, there will be neglect. And for a caring loving person that becomes neglecting themselves. And then their spouse.

Priorities does mean number one is first until done. Then on to number two. Then three. Etc. There just isn’t enough time in a day for all of our investments in sequential order. However, there is enough time in our lives to share our love and self to all our priorities. And overall there is this hierarchy.

Lots of marriages wake up to two strangers sitting across the breakfast table after the kids have grown up. One’s got to invest wisely. And I believe I did. Of course, then the whole whackadoodle thing took over and all fell apart. Well, not all. Not really. Just her part.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2928222 01/10/22 07:24 PM
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Hello Own

You’re right, I should move. Lol.

Why do I stay? Oh yeah, job, food, etc. And someone has to keep the lights on. smile


My will has no provisions for future spouse or adopted kids either. Would it ever? Like most things in life - it depends.

Imagine I married again and we live happily for 30 more years. Did we blend finances? I’m thinking not. And there’d be a prenuptial agreement as well. So unlikely any spousal monies. Of course, I’d want to ensure she is taken care of, that she is ok.

How about her kids? My step sons/daughters? None? A lesser percentage? What about grandkids? Great grandkids? Step or blood? Lines can get blurry.

Sorry, I know you wee guys loved your grandpa, but he only recognizes his “true” family. Not sure the marker outlining only the DnJ blood line would be the best/proper way. Again, it depends. And of course this is a thought exercise imagining a decades long successful second marriage. It is much easier with only one marriage and your own kids.

Oh well, not a thing for the moment. Not even close to it. Lol.

It’s great you are discussing with the kids. Who they want to be. Dad’s past. The affect upon them. And such. (I’m a pretty big proponent of open honest communication.)

Have a wonderful day my friend.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2928224 01/10/22 07:55 PM
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Of course your son's fiancee is more of a priority than anyone else. that is as it should be. they are starting out, building their lives.

I'm talking about people of a certain age who find themselves suddenly single. I'm not open to someone I'm dating coming before my son, not emotionally, most definitely not financially. I'm working on my will and estate planning. I'm of the same mind as OwnIt. What's mine is for my son and any grandchildren I may have somewhere down the line. Presumably if I did become involved with someone that person would have their own finances and their own people who would be their beneficiaries.

My exh and I were together for 10 mostly blissful years before my son came along. Were there a few bumps here and there? Yes, mostly related to him not being a grown up, tbh. When our son came, our priorities shifted. But I'm not having children with a new partner, so I am not going to marry again. I don't want that kind of a legal relationship, ever again.

How about finances? I do not ever want to mingle my finances with a partner again.

How about sharing space? I am not interested in ever living with someone else again. I'm not willing to have discussions even about what color to paint the walls, or what plates to buy or silverware to use. Seriously. At this point in my life, I am not willing to be accommodating to that degree.

When I do an internal check, there's a hard no to these questions. This is MY house. I do not want it to become "Our" house if I started dating someone. I really don't want to live with anyone ... sleepovers? Long dates that last for days? If it's the right person, yes to both. Long term commitment to companionship and monogamy therein, yes, if it's the right person. I am not interested in having fun, hanging out and hooking up. Not my bag, never was, certainly isn't now.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Yes, she is not my kids’ Mom, and I’m not her kids’ Dad. Still, there is some form of relationship. Or needs to be. And if one doesn’t consider it before the time (if it comes) they will be left scrambling and things probably will not work out very well.
Again, I have to question this. Life has a way of evolving. There's a saying, man plans and God laughs ... I agree some thought needs to be put in beforehand, but if one is jumping into the dating scene I guess one needs to be somewhat more flexible than I am willing to be, hence, not dating.

D, you know my situation with my son. I've had friends, men and women friends, telling me what I should, need, ought, MUST, do ... no. What I must do is what I've been doing, putting my son first, so he knows unequivocally that one of his parents at least cares enough about him to make him a priority, when necessary. The thought of a potential partner stepping in like he has some authority over my son? They'd be shown the door so fast they wouldn't know how they got outside. I've had long conversations with a close (married) male friend who just a few months ago stated flat out that any guy who got involved with me would have a hard time not stepping in when son was at his worst. I understand. I even agree that it's nearly impossible to see someone you love going through h*ll and not doing something, and that's one major reason why there hasn't been anyone in my life. I don't want, need, expect and would resent what I would consider interference. What would a new person be in my life? Where would I make room for him? Well, the answer is I'm not sure and I am not willing at this time to make any significant room for him at all, which tells me that I'm better off alone, for both mine and the poor potential guy's sake!

Originally Posted by DnJ
I didn’t see my view point changing - on its own. So I changed it. Because I wanted to.

Yep. And maybe it's that simple: I do not want to. I have a soft and squishy heart for the many people in my life, for animals both wild and those living with me, for humans as a whole. I am not willing to put someone before my son. I do not understand people who do so. In fact, I have to be honest I have little respect for someone who does so. I have little respect for the so-called "blended" family - what a lot of B.S. What's blended about my exh's situation? Nothing, from my son's point of view. What was blended about my ex-fil's situation? or my ex-step-FIL? nothing. absolutely nothing. Doesn't mean people can't get together and share food, hospitality, events. but it's far-fetched to think that because a man and woman fall in love their kids are going to suddenly be all happy happy this is my new blended family.

I had a dear friend, wonderful woman who hadn't had kids. Married a widower who had kids. He put his kids first, and it caused a lot of problems for her. She didn't get it, because she didn't have any kids of her own. She thought that she should have had more than the kids, financially, because she was his wife. That caused a lot of problems in their marriage. She lived in his marital home, he paid for it to be completely re-modeled to her liking. We're talking serious $$$$ because we're talking kitchen and bathroom re-models, completely re-doing all rooms, fancy cabinets, high end appliances. He bought her a car, but spent more $$ on his son's car than hers. She got really mad about that. I don't think she really understood that his son's car was paid for through their family business, and hers was not, because she didn't work for the company, and wasn't on the road for the company. It was a constant comparison and it made both of them miserable. She's since passed on but was very, very unhappy in that marriage. There was nothing blended. In truth, I don't think there can be with adult children.

I think the best you can hope for is that your kids will, if not love the person, at least get along with them on the occasions when everyone is together.

Originally Posted by DnJ
I find it interesting that people looking towards their next relationship have lists of red flags and “will” be treated a certain way. To be special to someone. To have them make time for you. Is that not looking to be higher on that person’s priorities? One needs to reciprocate that within their priorities as well.
Certainly. If I were involved with someone I would expect to be treated with respect and kindness. However, I do not expect more than I'm willing to give. The point is, I am not really willing to give all that much. Lots of people are special to me. I make time for a lot of people. I can't envision a situation where I would ever put a guy before my son. That said, son was out on a date on NYE. I spent most of that weekend alone in my house - something I really never do. I can see where that would get old very fast, if my son was out and on his own, successful in his life endeavors. I can see where I'd have to ask myself some more questions. But some things won't change:
1. money - not going into shared finances again
2. property - any inheritance is for my son.
3. marriage - nope. not tying myself legally to anyone ever again. gee, it was so much fun the first time I just can't imagine willingly going for round 2 (or 3 or 4 or -- how many times did Liz Taylor do that?)
4. priorities? (God), myself, my son, my pets.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
H moved out 4/24/15
D Final 12/23/16

Once we face the things that we fear they no longer have power over us.
DnJ #2928226 01/10/22 08:05 PM
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you know D, growing up in an Italian family, this is very straightforward: anything ($$$, real estate, businesses) the parents have is left to their children and grandchildren. Bequests are for the non-blood relations. It's understood, never needs to be spoken aloud. We all, my cousins and I, and every Italian person I know, understand this completely. It's cultural.

Now, had my marriage remained intact? My exh would have received all of my dad's tools - the ones he designed and made himself as well as the three tool chests full. And the power tools. And his jewelry (diamond ring) would have gone to our son. Cufflinks, tie clips, would have been to both my exh and my son. My dad loved my exh like a son. Thought the world of him. But the house, any money - no. That was for me, and my son.

And as a second generation Italian, it makes sense to me, with no offense meant to those not of the direct bloodline.

Last edited by bttrfly; 01/10/22 08:06 PM.

M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
H moved out 4/24/15
D Final 12/23/16

Once we face the things that we fear they no longer have power over us.
DnJ #2928228 01/10/22 08:19 PM
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bttrfly, I'm still hanging with you, almost verbatim. I know I will never marry again. No need to legitimize children and no financial need. I also expect if I became involved with someone he would have his own resources and I would want him to leave those to his people. Perhaps this is a gender-based distinction and in our patriarchal society more women look to men to provide for them.

D, I'm not a believer in the step-parent arrangement, so I don't think a future partner's children's children would be my grandchildren. I mean no disrespect for people who have those relationships and value them. I can see myself enjoying someone else's children and grandchildren, spending time with them, etc., but I don't think I would see them as my children/grandchildren. Those people presumably have a mother/grandmother and I wouldn't want to usurp that or make anyone feel that I was trying to do so (mother or child). Had I adopted children rather than birthed them, they would be my children, but I don't see the step-parent arrangement the same way.

I also don't see myself living with someone. I like my alone time. I like to know things are the way I left them and that I have an inventory on groceries, cleaning supplies, etc., that no one else is messing with. I will date (apparently soon) and likely will travel with someone, perhaps cohabitate for brief periods, etc., but likely nothing more.

I have discovered so many interests of my own that I didn't know I had because having someone else there blocked that view for me. I don't want to go back to that. Also, from time to time I have read about you guys in the online dating world and I know I don't have any interest in that. The statistics are pretty scary about the types of people who inhabit that world, and like bttrfly, I have the Tshirt for that and no desire to return to it.

My only criteria for the people who come into my life now: are they there voluntarily, are they good with who they are, and are they kind. I use this same criteria both for friends and dates. The time you spend with the wrong people keeps you from finding the right ones.

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DnJ #2928229 01/10/22 08:58 PM
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My kids definitely come before a boyfriend - and if he can't understand that, he's not for me. I have a lifetime commitment to my kids, and even though they are adults they still need a lot of parenting. They all have issues (in some cases made much worse by their father's actions and inactions) and they need me to be he steady supportive parent.

CMM had trouble with that - mostly because he had rigid ideas of how things should be and what my kids should be doing - and it caused a lot of friction. One reason I don't want to live with a man again.

Now - if I DID end up in a long term relationship and cohabiting with a partner, I'd want to be sure that they wouldn't be dumped out on the street if I died. If my kids were all more financially stable on their own I might feel differently about their inheritance, but given that they all struggle and will never likely make the income their parents did, and are unlikely to outlive their father's young second wife to get any inheritance from him, I am really invested in preserving an inheritance for them.

My aunt had a situation that points up the potential down side. She was widowed, then remarried a divorced man. (To tell the truth, I've always suspected that maybe he wasn't completely divorced when they got together, but I was just a kid then). Any way, they worked together in his real estate business, then retired to a home they bought together in San Diego. (She had a home of her own when they met - I believe it was sold when they moved in together in L.A.).

Anyway, they were married for a long long time, maybe 20-25 years. I think my aunt was in her 50's when they married, and in her late 70's when her second husband died.

When he died, she discovered that he had changed his will to give everything to his adult children from his previous marriage! No, this was not a leftover old will, but one that he made close to his death. My aunt had to sell the home they were living in (a nice but modest suburban ranch) and move into a mobile home park. In their case, the fair thing would have been a trust that allowed her to continue living in their home until she died, a fair share of the assets they had accumulated together, and then the inheritance to his adult kids after she died (with her fair share to her own kids). It really ruined my aunt's quality of life in her elder years, and tarnished her memory of this guy she thought of as a great love.

So - there are situations where it would be fair to include the spouse in the inheritance, especially if they brought something to the table or contributed to finances or lifestyle. (20-25 years of cooking for and keeping house for someone should count as a contribution too).

In my ex's case - he's been married to his much younger bride for ten years or so. It would only be fair for her to have the use of his trust and home when he dies, and then for it to go to our kids when she dies (he has a trust and I suspect it is this kind of pass-through trust). However, if that's the case, my children may never see any inheritance from their father, since she is barely older than they are and in better health. All the more reason why I feel it is important to be able to pass something on to my own kids.

DnJ #2928232 01/10/22 10:03 PM
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Hello bttrfly / Own

Originally Posted by bttrfly
D, you know my situation with my son. I've had friends, men and women friends, telling me what I should, need, ought, MUST, do ... no. What I must do is what I've been doing, putting my son first, so he knows unequivocally that one of his parents at least cares enough about him to make him a priority, when necessary.

Yes I know your situation. And I respect and agree with how you’re living it.

There are plenty of folks in the world quick to tell others how to live, how to do something, how to fix something. Sure, you get sympathy and pity, and lots of advice from one who’s not walked that path. A very few actually empathize with what one is going though.

You and son have lived through a h3llish time. Son is very fortunate to have you as his Mom.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
…if my son was out and on his own, successful in his life endeavors. I can see where I'd have to ask myself some more questions. But some things won't change:
1. money - not going into shared finances again
2. property - any inheritance is for my son.
3. marriage - nope. not tying myself legally to anyone ever again. gee, it was so much fun the first time I just can't imagine willingly going for round 2 (or 3 or 4 or -- how many times did Liz Taylor do that?)
4. priorities? (God), myself, my son, my pets.

I’m just asking myself some further questions is all. My list/answers are much the same as your’s (four kids though).

Originally Posted by OwnIt
D, I'm not a believer in the step-parent arrangement, so I don't think a future partner's children's children would be my grandchildren.

Yes, that is my mostly view as well.

However, I do believe in and see possibilities.

Also, my aunt got divorced and remarried. Early in her life, so not the same situation. Her BF become her husband. He became my uncle. I think of him as such. As blood. It is odd and strange when I remember he isn’t.

I think of my (step)uncle’s mom as Grandma. She is the gal we would go and play piano for. Weird how “step-” is absent from these relationships.

My aunt and uncle were married when I was a teenager. 35 or so years of marriage, until her death from cancer. Somewhere or sometime her second marriage became “it”. No longer a step-type thing.

She bequeathed her estate to him. Her spouse. And he will most likely bequeath his estate to his (her’s actually from previous marriage) kids. It makes sense, he and her were the architects of their life for close to four decades.

Again, not the same. Just exploring how well defined certain delimitations are. And probably more importantly, how undefined they are. To me. I will than adjust if desired or needed.

Originally Posted by OwnIt
I also don't see myself living with someone. I like my alone time. I like to know things are the way I left them and that I have an inventory on groceries, cleaning supplies, etc., that no one else is messing with.

I hear you. Nice having things where I left them. Lol.

Originally Posted by OwnIt
Also, from time to time I have read about you guys in the online dating world and I know I don't have any interest in that. The statistics are pretty scary about the types of people who inhabit that world

For the record, no dates, not dating, and not interested in the online dating scene. Not at all.

OLD is a business. It wouldn’t be in its interests to put itself out of business. The algorithms learn/know plenty about your wants and desires. Data/knowledge that is of value to targeted solicitation of products and services. And from what I read, OLD isn’t good at matching folks up any better than from chance meetings/attraction. Actually, the latter is more likely to garner a successful outcome; whatever and however you define that.

My criteria is similar. Faithful, loyal, sincere, and such. Someone who has lived through the crucible knows the value of such convictions.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2928234 01/10/22 10:51 PM
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Hello kml

Wow, your aunt widowed and left with nothing.

I agree, such a substantial investment into a marriage was worthy of inheritance. To have to sell the home and move, to lower her quality of living, is just so unfair.

Post my divorce, I plan to not get myself tangled up with someone financially again. Any cohabitation will have this component sorted out first.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2928237 01/10/22 11:17 PM
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Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
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